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Better fascist that gay - Mussolini's granddaughter

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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:50 AM
Original message
Better fascist that gay - Mussolini's granddaughter
Better fascist that gay - Mussolini's granddaughter

ROME (Reuters) - The granddaughter of Italy's wartime dictator Benito Mussolini has defended being a fascist by saying it was better than being a "faggot".

Alessandra Mussolini's televised derogatory remarks came less than a month after Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi welcomed her far-right political party into his coalition before a general election in April.

Mussolini, proud of her ancestral ties to "Il Duce", had been criticised by a drag queen-turned-politician about being a fascist on Italian TV talk show Porta a Porta.

<snip>

"Better to be a fascist than a faggot," Mussolini said, using the highly offensive Italian word "frocio", according to Porta a Porta's press office.

<snip>

http://today.reuters.co.uk/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.as...

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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. She's been a loose cannon for some time in the US air base called Italy.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. good grief!
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Jeez, she looks so reasonable in the photo
Heh heh

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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. That's because Ann Coulter is her Ideal


Side note: if I recollect rightly, the term 'facist' originally mean to bind, or tie together, a bunch of faggots (sticks of kindling).
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Etymology of "fascist" and "faggot"
You are right, the two words are related, sort of.

"Faggot" derives from the Latin word fagus, or "beech tree." Beeches were sacred to Jupiter, and there was a highly respected school of priests who would sit in beech groves and derive oracles from the sound of the wind in the leaves. Like all Roman priesthoods, they were bound by very strict taboos; this priesthood had to abstain from sex with any female while serving as an oracle. Because such a rule was less onerous to someone with little interest in women, it is believed that this priesthood attracted many homosexual men. Fagus was used in early Christian polemics to denounce the perceived immorality of paganism; as challengers to Christian dominance died off, it came to be used specifically against gay men. It is interesting to note that charges of "sodomy" were leveled by the Inquisition against male witches (there were more than a few), the charge was often based on nothing more than the presence of beech trees near the accused's home, or amulets or other "magical" items made from the wood of the beech tree. And of course, since the Inquisition records were kept in Latin, the word fagus was used. (Information from Another Mother Tongue by Judy Grahn, Witchcraft and the Gay Counterculture by Arthur Evans, and other sources.)

"Fascist" is a modern Italian form of earlier Latin fagotto (I think I have the form right), literally meaning "little beech" and used to describe a beech twig. A bundle of beech twigs tied together was called a fascis, Latin for "bundle"; such bundles were frequently used to represent the god Jupiter. Early in the Roman Empire, the fasces (note the slightly different spelling) became a symbol of the state's power, with government officials having the right to carry them in formal processions. Outside the traditional boundaries of the city of Rome, fasces included an axe, indicating that the magistrate had the power to decide life or death cases; within Rome, the axe was removed except for those used by the Emperor. (No cites, just stuff I've picked up.)

From fagotto, through Middle French fagot (bundle of sticks), we get the English word "faggot" to mean a bundle of sticks and latter, a bundle used specifically as kindling (which is where British English gets "fag" to mean a cigarette, ie a smoldering twig of tobacco.) The combining of "bundle of sticks" and "homosexual" into the same word appears around the middle of the 15th century, rejoining two different meanings of the same original word.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Also, fagotti = Italian for 'bassoon'
Which of course looks like a bundle of sticks.

Still, you didn't want to be a bassoon player in high school and see 'fag.' or 'fagotti' on the sheet music. Kids are relentlessly jerky about stuff like that.
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. I had also heard that "faggot" got its derogatory implications...
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 05:17 AM by Flubadubya
from the Spanish Inquisition. While heretics and witches (worst offenders) were burned upon huge ceremonial pyres and were the "focal point" of the ritual conflagration, those accused of being homosexuals (lesser players) were tied to bundles of smaller sticks, or faggots, surrounding the pyre and burned. Thus homosexuals became associated with the word faggot.

This is the story I have always heard about the etymology of the term. Makes sense to me. :shrug:
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. There is no record at all of anything like that happening
At least, not that I have ever heard of. If the Inquisition was anything, it was neurotic about keeping complete and accurate records.

Keep in mind that burning at the stake was supposed to be a very slow, extremely painful way to die. The fire was kept deliberately low, usually little more than glowing embers hot enough to crisp the skin but not enough to bring death outright. The victim was supposed to linger as long as possible, with the idea that this was but a short, relatively pleasant foretaste of the eternal flames of Hell. Death might come hours after the fire was lit, either from massive system shock or from smoke inhalation. Homosexuals were seen by the medieval church as among the highest ranks of sinners; it would have been far too merciful to use them to light the fires and let them die quickly. And anyway, people make for lousy kindling.

The two meanings of "faggot" -- a bundle of twigs and a male homosexual -- came back together in the mid 15th century; that was when the Inquisition was reaching its height in much of Europe. The legend you cite most likely comes from poor translation of records which show the dual usage.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. thanks for the explanation!
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Post of the day, IMO.
She makes Coulter look almost sane.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. obviously her stylist, make up person,
and hair dresser are gay -- and not happy.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's assuming she's wearing clothes. Google her name...
Appears as tho she's got a problem staying dressed in front of cameras.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. lol -- fascists and conservative christians
seem to have problems with little things like that.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. You mean this photo? >
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 07:01 AM by leveymg

Is she really sure about that better fascist than gay stuff?
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Ben Ceremos Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. Would not such a criticism
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 07:34 AM by Ben Ceremos
imply that she has experience of both conditions? Why is it that 'fascisti' ALWAYS put their emotions in gear before using their brains? Anyway, as a married hetero w/kid and a wonderful wife, I would rather turn gay than fascist, but I would rather burn a fascist than a faggot.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. True, but I bet she always wears great shoes!
Of course, so does Condisleeza

:P
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Let me get this straight: It's better to be a heterosexual fascist than
to be a gay democratist. Okay. . . I don't get it.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. And if you're a gay fascist? Watchout.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. Is she a fascist...
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 09:34 AM by MrPrax
or the newest CNN anchor...




Hard to Tell these days...Both have TV shows

TV's Aryan Sisterhood

Oops...seems to be a not-so-subtle motif for propaganda these days...


Get Behind Denmark!! Yuk Yuk
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. OK. What I'm hearing is: Suppressed sexuality leads to fascism
So if you suppress who you really are sexually, you become a fascist.

Cause well, there's a whole lot of misdirected anger in her statement.

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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Look How Happy The Hubby Is Here!
A picture of joy....maybe he's gay....

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Maybe he's just ashamed of her
But then, he did marry a fascist...so maybe that's his way of looking like a "serious" fascist.

Dunno...but that woman has a lot of anger inside her. All misdirected.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
19. fascist's are all sadists and ass-rapers anyway, she knows this too
fascists - they all know it too, they are nothing but psychopaths, and they should be hunted down, identified by tests and isolated from the general population.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. Classic Republican talking point
"Better facist than gay" (or black, or liberal, or...)
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cmkramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sophia Loren
Her younger sister was married to Mussolini's son. I wonder if that's her daughter.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Was Benito Mussolini's son Romano Mussolini, the jazz pianist?
Yes. Answered my own question.

Alessandra Mussolini's parents:

Father: Romano, third son of Benito Mussolini.
Mother: Maria Scicolone, Sophia Loren's younger sister.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Say what you will about her... at least she admits to being a fascist...
unlike our breed...

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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Well...
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 04:24 AM by arcos
If Ann Coulter's last name were Mussolini, I'm sure she would be a proud and open fascist :P
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Ben Ceremos Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. But Man Coulter
isn't a real woman anyway...She's only half-bred.
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