Patriot Act Includes Crackdown on Meth Use (Cold Meds Limited)

[RamboLiberal]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PATRIOT_ACT_METH?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-06-23-35-09

Suffer from springtime allergies? You could be among the first affected by the USA Patriot Act poised for final congressional passage this week.

Besides terrorism, the bill takes aim at the production of methamphetamine, a highly addictive drug that cannot be manufactured without a key ingredient of everyday cold and allergy medicines. The bill would impose new limits next month for how much relief a person can buy over the counter.

And beginning Sept. 30, it'll take a flash of ID to buy that medication.

The legislation sponsored by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. and Jim Talent, R-Mo., would blanket the nation with one policy that would put medicines containing pseudoephedrine behind the counter and out of the reach of meth cooks.

<snip>

Beginning 30 days after President Bush signs the law, expected sometime this week, purchase limits go into effect. One person would be limited to buying 300, 30-mg pills in a month or 120 such pills in a day. The measure would make an exception for "single-use" sales - individually packaged pseudoephedrine products.

[AX10]

1. WTF?

ID to buy cough syrup?

[uppityperson]

6. ID to buy chemicals that can be made into meth.

maybe they'll get back to otc codeine for coughs since it is not as bad as meth.

[JPZenger]

44. Necessary to Protect Kids

If you understood the damage that meth is doing to thousands of families in many parts of the country, you wouldn't be upset about having to show ID. It is probably the most addictive drug.

In Iowa, there was a recent study that found that half of all the kids who have to be removed from their families was because of the parent's addiction to meth.

Meth is overwhelming many local police departments, and resulting in expensive hazardous waste cleanups in homes used for manufacturing. It also is dangerous to the kids living in those homes.

While meth addiction is at epidemic porportions in many parts of the country (particularly in the rural midwest), the Federal Government is putting most of its energy into anti-marijuana campaigns. Did you see those repetitive commercials saying that if you try marijuana you will be chased by dangerous dogs?

[TommyO]

50. If you aren't doing anything wrong...

then you wouldn't object to wiretaps. It's the same logic. Also you're resorting to the standard right-wing, protect the children bullshit.

I use Sudafed on a fairly regular basis to deal with allergy symptoms, how long before I have to not only show ID and sign for a legal OTC medication (if I buy in NJ, I already have to do it), but to register as an allergy sufferer, or even get a prescription for it?

[AX10]

56. Exactly.

[AX10]

55. When why are the parents (the "responsible" ones) taking meth....

in the first place? :eyes:

[saigon68]

59. Its just "RIGHT WING PROTECT THE CHILDREN BULLSHIT"

nothing more nothing less

Feel good waste of time and resources

ie "SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THE SHEEP".

[Tippy]

60. My County was one of the largest producers of meth for years

We have seen the damage it caused and is causing...Our local sheriff began really going after the meth cookers and he did lock up a lot of them, he also made it very difficult for them to stay in business. People like myself have to sign and show ID everytime we purchase suphedrine..and records are kept of our purchases...Every building/and or house that has been used to cook meth in now has to be listed and can not be sold without disclosing this information, in addition to the
expensive hazardous waste cleanups. Children were removed from parents who cooked meth.

We all thought progress was being made and it was a lot of cookers are now behind bars but it has not stopped meth....

Now most of the meth is being brought in from MEXICO...

Who allowed Mexican trucks to cross our borders? Who thinks it's a great idea to alow guest workers to cross our borders?

[xultar]

2. Didn't Raw Story say that the Patriot Act was in jepoardy...

so that shit has really passed.

THAT'S it NO MORE RAW STORY cuz they don't get their shit straight or someone is feeding them shit.

[Pirate Smile]

3. In Iowa, we already have to show our Drivers License and they

have a computer that calculates how much you've purchased over the past month from all the different stores throughout the state - there is a limit per month.

You can only buy one product at a time and it is kept behind the counter.

It was weird at first and a lot of extra work for the pharmacists but you get used to it.

Some products also disappeared. What I took at night for my allergies was no longer for sale - Sudafed nighttime.

edit to add - It was, of course, a state law to combat the growing meth problems. Why stick it in the Patriot Act? Don't ask me. These sure are some state's-rights Republicans aren't they?:eyes:

[RamboLiberal]

7. To me it's another limitation of our rights

cause some assholes cook up meth and some dumbasses use it.

So now I have to show id to buy cold and allergy meds. And maybe the med that works for me may no longer be available. That's BS. If drug users want Meth they'll get Meth! Making it harder for the rest of us to buy cold meds will do squat!

Meanwhile I can go to the Wal-Mart or any sporting goods store and buy as much ammo as I want w/o showing any id - at least in my state.

And believe me I want no limit on that either.

And Repukes complain about a Nanny state.

[Pirate Smile]

10. I agree. It pissed me off. It was weird to feel like a criminal when

you are buying allergy medicine.

It makes more sense as a state law to deal with a state criminal and medical problem. That doesn't mean I necessarily like it but it is more appropriate that way. Some states have had huge problems with Meth.

The irony of these "State's rights" Republicans in Congress trying to take over everything, stopping personal and State responsibilities and decisions, and interjecting themselves into the most personal decisions in peoples lives and usurping the State's role is not lost on me.

[eeyore]

34. I see, let's just do absolutely nothing about meth....

Great idea!

We need to force the drug companies to deal with this. Of course meth cookers will keep developing other ways to make it. But for right now we can make it a hell of a lot harder by doing this.

I'm sorry it's inconvenient to you, but I live in a state where this is a huge problem. In Oregon we already have this law, and I haven't heard a single person complain about it. I can't even begin to tell you how meth has fucked up our state.

[Mithras61]

36. I don't believe anyone said "do nothing about meth."

In fact, several here said it should be addressed in a bill that deals with the drug war. The USA PATRIOT Act is FAR from the only place this issue can be fought (as you pointed out yourself in that Oregon has done some work on this already). Your reactions appear to be more than a little extreme when looked at objectively.

I happen to support efforts to stop meth production, and in my community the drug stores & pharmacies are carrying reformulated sudafed (I think they call it sudefed PE, but I'm not sure cause I use Allegra D), and the state has restrictions like those in the USA PATRIOT Act.

But the question remains... does buying too much sudafed NEED to be a Federal offense, and if so, does it NEED to be in an act that is supposed to be fighting terrorism, not drug abuse? I think it would be better to put this type of law where it belongs, but then it might actually be debated and modified to make it palatable or workable, and that means compromise (and we can't have that, right?).

[eeyore]

37. A lot of people expressed the attitude that doing nothing is better

They don't want their personal rights violated. What a bunch of crap. I agree that this doesn't belong in the Patriot Act, but I just don't get the selfish attitude that people have with this issue. My rights are violated every day when I have to think about the fact that 85% of the property crime in my city is meth related.

[Mithras61]

39. I understand, but...

doesn't your city/state have laws already on the books to fight this? Is the sudafed (or meth) being brought in from out of state? It sounds like enforcement may be the better solution, instead of passing additional laws that say the same thing (in your situation, at least). If there were no laws on the books about this, I'd agree that this is needed, but I'm not sure it IS needed unless this is more of an interstate problem than it has been historically. They've been fighting meth here for at least the last 20 years, and mostly with limited success because the ingredients are pretty available. They put the laws on the state books a few years ago, and it looks like they're getting it under control (for now, at least). I'm not sure that this law will make any change in how we do things here.

Meth is insidious stuff. It is usually take initially as a "better" pick-up than other, legal things (coffee, energy drinks, etc.) and quickly replaces those other substances because it's more effective. Maybe we need to focus some on why there is such a demand for stimulants in our society.

[smb]

52. Oh, Puh-leeze!

Your argument is EXACTLY like Dubya accusing Democrats of "not wanting to do anything about terraism" whenever they show any semblance of a spine and object to his latest foolishness.

[rodeodance]

8. and 90 people in the Senate are clapping themselves on the back.

...edit to add - It was, of course, a state law to combat the growing meth problems. Why stick it in the Patriot Act? Don't ask me. These sure are some state's-rights Republicans aren't they? :eyes:

[Thor_MN]

15. In MN, same thing, except that it's logged in a loose leaf binder

at each place I have been to and I know there is no person on Earth who is going to be logging the chickenscratch writting in that book into a database. I've had to write in my own info each time, I easily could have made it unreadble unless you are looking at my license, which will not be available at data entry time.

These laws are jokes, the only purpose is to give the illusion that "something" is being done.

[MadMaddie]

25. Kinda like the illusion that National Security is a priority!!!

[High Plains]

24. Sensenbrenner stuck it in there without any hearings so it would

pass.

[jus_the_facts]

26. Actifed isn't available anymore either....BASTARDS!!!

:grr:

[daleo]

4. What has this got to do with terrorism?

Bin Laden must be having a good laugh.

[AnneD]

43. My thoughts exactly

pure Bull Shit.

[wordpix2]

51. right: Bin Laden=clamping down on meth ingredients?

[rodeodance]

5. what is this crap doing in a security bill?

[RamboLiberal]

9. I'm with you guys on that - put this in a damn drug bill

Has squat to do with terrorism.

And speaking of I'm more fearful of the drug cartels bringing their violence here than Osama or some mythical WMD's. Those guys just across our border has some heavy-ass weapons. I haven't been following it that closely but from what I've seen I do think some members of the Mexican military/police are protecting the drug runners and coming across our border.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

13. My thoughts exactly.

Sounds like it's being deliberately put in so people will have something to freak out about in getting rid of patriot act.

[sendero]

11. As usual...

... everything this adminstration does is 'too little, too late'.

Manufacture of this SHIT is moving to Mexico and these measures aren't going to do jack.

[dave502d]

12. They should have did that in 1986 without the fucking patriot act.n/t

[54anickel]

14. What the hell else is in that damned Patriot Act? This certainly doesn't

belong in it. So I suppose the data collected to track your purchases of cold relief medicine can be rolled up into the database of whatever else they're collecting on citizens under the cover of national security. Name, address, DL, DOB, how you paid for it....

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

17. Drugs=Terrorism

Or so the DEA would have you believe, so it can continue to get them operating funds.

[Kung Fu Bovine]

57. Of course!

I bought a 20 bag from bin Laden yesterday.

[54anickel]

19. So will I have to show my ID the next time my sink is clogged? Maybe

they should just skip right to chipping us all and tracking all of our purchases. Seems to be where they are headed.

[Fountain79]

16. I believe Missouri has the same law...

In fact I remember hearing something about Missouri being one of the major producers of meth.

[HuffleClaw]

18. a creeping horror

id to buy otc medication? next they'll decide you need id to buy condoms.

[teryang]

20. Local police offices violate the Privacy Act every day...

...they access Social Security records when they need to find you.

[bluestateguy]

21. Here we go

The Patriot Act being used for crap that has nothing to do with terrorism., which meth doesn't. Why should I give a shit if some loser wants to load up on meth in the privacy of their own home? I would call that thinning the herd. It's an overpopulated world anyway.

[eeyore]

35. What a fucking disgusting attitude you have.

I am absolutely speechless. I'm really glad that you are not in my community. It's sad, really.

[Jack_DeLeon]

40. I agree completely with you...

why should my rights be infringed upon just to save someone who wants to destroy themselves anyways.

[Bridget Burke]

46. Yeah--& if their kids suffer, it's just Natural Selection in action!

Adding 2 minutes to one's purchase of allergy meds is just SO HARD!

[fishwax]

49. with meth it's the production, not use, that's the biggest problem

you don't buy massive quantities of sudafed to use meth in the privacy of your own home, you buy it to cook meth in the privacy of your own home, and the cooking of meth puts pretty much the entire block in danger because the chemicals are very unstable. Explosions and fires happen all the time.

Having a meth user next door may not be a big deal (though I wouldn't trust my CD/DVD collection around most tweakers), but having a meth lab next door is quite a hazard, and one may not even realize it's there.

That said, though, it's total bullshit that this is coming in the Patriot Act :wtf: They're simply trying to reinforce the phony drugs=terrorism bullshit that they've been pushing since 9/11, and if we have meth in this round of the Patriot Act, you can bet they'll want to add other drugs in future revisions. :grr:

[TX-RAT]

61. Why should I give a shit if some loser wants to load up on meth

Well considering the amount of crime related to meth use, i give a shit. Shoplifting, burglary's, and theft seem to be the most common way of supporting your meth habit around here. We just had a big run on Anhydrous Ammonia tanks being stolen. Most of our home burglaries suspects in the county, turn out to be meth users.

[Canuckistanian]

22. What's this got to do with defending the country?

Seriously, was ANY thought put into this thing or did they just throw anything they wanted in at the last minute?

Don't answer that. I know the answer.

[MrPrax]

23. This is scary...

The real menace here is that the gov't is going to start keeping an active database of millions of people, accessible by law enforcement, pHarm, retailers, insurance companies, etc. to basically get all your up-to-date information traceable through looking up how much cough syrup I can sell you.

Credit Bureaus could have a field day loose in that system, but the thing is that once the database is up and running, it makes it much easier to add other 'watch lists' for other things 'the state' wants to keep an eye on.

The bad part is YOU KNOW that there going to be a screw up and a SWAT team is going to break a door or two looking for Meth Labs or your neighbor will have a black car showing up.

If they are trying to force the price of meth up as a way of controling it, then this isn't going to work...this will just make adding 'cough syrup' to the robbery list, along with cigarettes, cash and whatever else that is small and mobile.

It's stupid...

[woodsprite]

27. Delaware is doing this already.

You have to show your driver's license and sign a log sheet if you want to purchase Sudafed - you know, the type that actually works - not the Sudefed PE. You can buy the Nyquil without the decongestant from the store aisle, but if you want the one with the decongestant, you need to sign/show ID for it. Also for any of the kids cough meds that work.

My daughter takes 12hr Sudafed every night, otherwise sinus drip makes her gag and sick to her stomach each morning. I take regular 4 hr non-drowsy Sudafed during the day and Nyquil at night when I need it, and hubby takes Contact. My son takes Dimetapp w/ decongestant. Guess I should start buying it now because if we all need it at once, I won't be able to purchase it.

I told hubby that this part of a payoff to the drug companies.

[DELUSIONAL]

28. That does it -- I'm leaving

Now they are criminalizing asthma and allergies etc.

FUCK the Senate. Fuck every fucking Senator who voted for this shit.

[w4rma]

29. Good. That's the *only* good provision of the Patriot Act

And it also means that the pharmacutical companies will fight it tooth and nail.

Meth is a real problem and this attacks the source of it.

[reprobate]

30. Notice who sponsored it - Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. - DINO

This is why Dems can get nothing done, besides the fact that we are a minority in congress. Our leadership is not strong enough to make sure Dems stick together. Any Senator or representative who votes contrary to the party line should lose any committee seat he may have, and that's where the power is. It's how the repugs keep their troops in line.

Of course, leading democrats is like herding cats. An exercise in frustration.

[Canuckistanian]

31. And what does this do about the other 10 or so ingredients in Meth?

Any bans on batteries? Drano? Brake fluid?

[eeyore]

33. So nothing should be done at all?

I don't even get that sort of logic.

It doesn't solve everything so we should just do nothing?

[eeyore]

32. This is great news!

I live in Oregon where we do this already. No big deal - you want to buy drugs with pseudoephedrine, show an ID so that they know that you're not going around to every store and stocking up on it.

Anyone who doesn't get that this is positive needs to watch the documentary that was produced for PBS by Oregon Public Broadcasting. Here's the link - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/

I'm not going to sit here and spout statistics at you, but I will say that I've seen far too many friends and family get fucked up on meth, and we've got to force the drug companies to deal with this problem. They can very easily create similar drugs that treat the same symptoms that don't contain the ingredients for cooking meth, but they won't. Why? Because they believe it will alter their profit margin.

Anyone who is against this, please do everyone a favor and do some research before you continue ranting against this legislation.

I agree that it's wrong for this to appear in the Patriot Act, but at this point I'm happy with anything that will work towards limiting the spread of meth.

Just this morning my friends woke up at 5am to a huge meth house bust on their street. This was 20 blocks from downtown Portland in a very dense residential neighborhood. The shit is everywhere here, and it's only getting worse. Anything that can be done to help stop it is fine by me.

[donheld]

38. Patriot Act has NOTHING to do with this

Crystal Meth is a real problem in this country. I applaud Ms Feinstein and any other person who can help us defeat this great problem in our country.

[JohnnyCougar]

41. I applaud this measure.

Meth is a serious problem. It is more addictive and destructive than probably anything out there, including heroin. And it is all to easy to produce. Meth addiction is spreading rapidly, especially in rural communites. I have long wondered why Democrats don't get tougher on meth to try and appeal to the Republican base. I repeat, it is a serious problem, especially in rural areas. This provision is not a panacea, but it is a good start. Contrary to the opinion of some on this thread, we should not simply ignore this problem and leave meth users to die because they are "stupid."

[B3Nut]

42. The bill is in the wrong place

and I'm not convinced it'll do much good if meth production is moving to Mexico, but something indeed needs to be done. I've seen the before/after photos of meth users...that crap turns attractive women into hags variously resembling the witches Harry Potter encountered in Knockturn Alley in the Prisoner of Azkaban movie. Scary stuff.

As long as I can still get pseudoephedrine in some form when the ol' schnazle is stuffed up, I'm good. I just have to go to the pharmacy counter and ask for it, no real fuss otherwise.

Don't they also use lots of bleach and brake fluid and so forth in that garbage? I hope I don't get followed for buying Clorox by the 3-pack at Sams (barf, I want a Costco dammit!), I go through a lot of bleach doing dog laundry from our kennels, seeing as we do rescue.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[LSK]

45. this randomly stuffing shit into bills has to stop

:grr:

[Bridget Burke]

47. Why the hell is this in the Patriot Act?

However, I've already bought generic Sudafed using the "new" method & it was not burdensome at all.

[DrBloodmoney]

48. In other news...

... meth imports from mexico on the rise...

[Megahurtz]

53. Combining "The War on Terrorism" with "The War on Drugs"

it just gets stupider everyday!:silly:

[Robb]

54. Every FUCKING TIME I read the same NONSENSE

from selfish people on this. And I won't get into it again, because it makes me so infuriated.

Just read this from last year. :grr:

Only comment: wrong place, right idea. And if you can't make it on 120 pills a day, you've got a bigger problem.

[bleedingheart]

58. How about attacking the lack of hope in the communities using meth

the jobless rates, the lack of education, the lack of healthcare...??

in the areas of my county where meth is a problem, it affects the disaffected the most. The people who can't find jobs, or are in dead end jobs...the kids who are abandoned by parents too busy trying to scratch out a living to pay attention to how their family is being torn apart...

but nope...that is too hard ...