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AP clarifies story about Katrina, Bush (Breach vs. Overrun)

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:39 PM
Original message
AP clarifies story about Katrina, Bush (Breach vs. Overrun)
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/14015353.htm?...

In a Wednesday story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his Homeland Security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing.

The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking.

The day before Katrina, Bush was told there were grave concerns the levees could be overrun.
It wasnt until the next morning, as the storm made landfall, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had asked about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing
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FightingIrish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. And when he learned of the damage his breeches overrun
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bullshit!! A whole bunch of water is going to spill over, scratch through,
the levee and kill thousands of people and ruin the city of New Orleans. Really, and Bush is concerned with whether the water goes over or through the levee??? Bullshit!!!
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. ditto
what you said. The spin is becoming overwhelming and unbearable, considering the lives that were lost as he played his guitar on the wrong frets and was on "vacation", a much protected "right" of this photo op stupid man--this all with the help of the compliant media who considers it their duty, apparently, to "protect" this imbecile rather than the lives or the condition of the suffering people in New Orleans
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yep--as though it makes a gd difference HOW the water gets through
to drown the poor bastards!!!! And they spent DAYS nitpicking the point about how he was NEVER told about a BREACH, but now, when we are overtaken with stories about Monkey getting beaned playing cricket, and Pat Tillman's death being investigated, well, they "clarify" the story.

I suppose it is a small mercy....a year or two ago, there would not even have been a clarification.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. So the excuse for Bush this time is semantics. Well, when a
city sits below sea level and beside a large lake, does it make much difference how the water gets in? Not to mention the fact that if it goes over the levee for very long, it will probably breach the levee sooner or later.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. But NO ONE could have anticipated such a thing.....
:shrug: He said it so it has to be true....
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. Right, the point is the levee may not effectively keep out the water
and so measures to protect the people are important to develop!
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. It depends on what your definition of "breach" is!
Remember when the wingnuts made fun of Clinton's "definition of 'is' is" statement. Now, they do exactly the same kind of semantic twist.

The simple fact that a lot of water was going to get past the levees into the city is the ONLY issue, not the technically specific method involved. High water in the city should have set off alarm bells. Instead, Busholini played guitar.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Speaking of *'s Damn Photo-Ops
In all the coverage this week of those tapes - I haven't seen one idiot media whore even bring up the fact that * was out doing these useless asinine photo-ops as the people of NO were drowning and enduring the horrors of the Super Dome and Convetion Center.

Not one of these damn idiots question why he didn't fly to DC to manage the crisis after this briefing.

Hell I was questioning that Monday as Katrina pounded NO why the hell he was flying West instead of back to DC.

And what idiots to have this tape all this time and not even realize it.

Investigative journalism is dead!
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. technicality in language relieves bush of responsibility,let them eat cake


bush strums while NOLA drowns:

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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. doesn't matter, reference was to why there was 20 feet of water down town
and hundreds of people drowning in their attics.. and sitting on roofs in 110* heat with no water.. or HELP.

the debate shouldn't be about a word, but about how badly this Wet Brain Alcoholic Drug Addict Moran's Brain is DAMAGED from Substance Abuse.

Click on the BLUE LINK>> in my signature for more info

Google: ..renana brooks and bush.. to get her psychological profile on the pResident. he has the profile of a wife beater/abuser ..sociopath
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Speaking of Bush's profile, do you know if anyone has done
a serious study of his body language. When I see him being interviewed or answering questions (without pre-scripted remarks) his body language, to me at least, looks like he's trying to intimidate people and hide things. Just wondering if anyone has seriously looked into that. I've always heard that your mouth might lie, but your body can't.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. AP = American Propaganda
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 04:15 PM by depakid
It really is a sorry wire service- and not just becaase its copy invariably slants to the far right.

People in the scientific and engineering community knew damn well that the levee's were almost certain to breach in a Katrina sized storm. So did Bush. The issue had been discussed for years.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Levee "overruns" CAUSE levee "breaches" - this is bullshit Pravda crap.
When H20 overruns a levee IT WEAKENS THE base opposite from the lake (the dry side). This overrunning quickly reduces the strength of the levee, which can then lead to a full-on levee breach.

This disinformation bullshit is nothing short of propaganda. Freedom of the press...my ass.

JB
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. EXACTLY!!! Overruns CAUSE Breeches. When levees top, you're screwed.
You don't need to be an engineer to know that.
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. The people dying on roofs and in attics
didn't care if the water came from breaches or overruns. It killed them just the same.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Water drowns people.
Pretending which way it gets to your lungs (over or under the levee) makes a difference is not something even the Republicans can believe.

I can't imagine whom they are trying to fool. Certainly not the people of New Orleans.

Birthday cake, guitar photo ops. Bush didn't care about those people. He knew they were drowning.
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Secular Agent Man Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. The bottom line is:
Bush said "everything" was going to be made available once the storm hit. It wasn't. Whether the levees were breached or overun is kinda beside the point. The federal government (which unfortunately Bush heads) failed to do its job. It's kinda like they're saying: "hey, since the freakin levees broke, we didn't have to act immediately and send in anything until we damn well felt like it." Overtopped, breached, cracked, spilled-over, cup runneth over or what the hell ever, the Federal Government failed these people in a monumental way. There's your "breach" right there!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. Bush will be asked about this (or Scot)-now that they have returned.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well since both happened I guess that makes him twice as evil...
for doing jack squat to save a single life.
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SoulDrift Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. Breach vs. Overtop - framing
So the Prez will use the argument that they had considered overtopping, which would have put a small volume of water in the city, but not a true breach where it would flood the bowl. In this way, when Bush says no-one anticipated a true breach, he may have a point that he can argue as technically correct, though still skirting the issue. From CNN:

Per the Chertoff argued that authorities actually had assumed that "there would be overflow from the levee, maybe a small break in the levee. The collapse of a significant portion of the levee leading to the very fast flooding of the city was not envisioned."


However, even if this is true, the authorities would have been basing their estimates on assumptions that others would consider faulty. Washing Away from the Times-Picayune shows this clearly. It states:

Hundreds of thousands would be left homeless, and it would take months to dry out the area and begin to make it livable. But there wouldn't be much for residents to come home to. The local economy would be in ruins.


Let's not allow this semantics argument to obscure the truth, that this was entirely predictable.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. So my bathtub cracks open at the side instead of overflowing at the top.
Either way I've still got water all over the floor; the tile peels up and the floorboards are soaked. Would the result have been any different if the tub had merely overflowed?

Jeebers, what a stupid argument.
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A-Possum Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is. n/t
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 09:33 PM by A-Possum
:sarcasm:
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Yeah, its spelled with an "f" in it n/t
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. When Bush uses imprecise language
When Bush uses imprecise language (incomprehensible really!) we're supposed to overlook it. We're supposed to "know what he meant" cause he's such a regular guy and we're "liberal elitists".

But now we're supposed to buy this?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is the way guilty people talk when they are avoiding culpability
They use hair splitting semantics and such-like. Shameful, really.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. nominate
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
24. BULLSHIT - Hurricane history was made in Texas
Prior to Katrina the deadliest hurricane in US history was in Texas. If any thing Bush should have been more aware then most exactly what the consequences would be.
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
26. Breach vs. Overrun
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to decieve."
-Sir Walter Scott
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
28. They're splitting NeoCon hairs, IMHO. Additionally, an....
...overrun of a levee will very quickly end up being a breach as the water erodes the top of the levee.

NeoCon semantics...crap, in other words.
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yojon Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
30. I wanna know *Who leaked this story to AP??*
Why after 6 months would the proof of what everybody knows get leaked? Have heard to plausible explanations:

1. Since chimp is not running for reelection, he is politically expendable. They can afford to throw him 'under the bus' so that the repug senators can have a foil for the congressional election. They will distance themselves and declare their competence and high ethical standards blah blahdy do wah bla blaa..

2. Its a distraction. "Hey!! Look over here!!" The domestic spying scandal is potentially much more toxic to chimp than mere incompetence (congress won't believe the intentional genocide of 2000 black New Orleans democrats). By drawing everyones attention to NOLA, the domestic spying gets defused.

Whole thing has the aroma of a Rove/Norquist op.
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
31. Tomato, tomahto, potato, potahto . . .
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 11:41 AM by Penndems
The bottom line is: The levees broke, and Bush knew about it the day before Katrina hit. Actually, he knew about the levees well BEFORE Katrina hit, because he cut funding to have the levees repaired, for crying out loud.

This is just hair-splitting and semantics. :eyes:













(on edit: additional text)
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Surrounded by flunkies and yes-men
Even if they DID tell him the levees were going to be overtopped instead of failing, they're still all totally incompetant. All of them.
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