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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 08:32 PM
Original message
Whisper war intensifies(Hackett accuses Brown,Brown camp. denies)
http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/openers/index.ssf?/mtl...

Whisper war intensifies

Paul Hackett is blaming his former Democratic Senate primary opponent, Rep. Sherrod Brown, for spreading a "whisper campaign" of rumors accusing him of war crimes in Iraq.

In an interview Monday on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews, the Iraq veteran, who quit the Senate race last week, went further than he has in the past. "The word came to me from many Democratic chairs in the state of Ohio that my primary opponent was spreading rumors about my service in Iraq.''...

Told of Hackett's allegations, Brown campaign spokeswoman Joanna Kuebler this evening said: "Of course it's not true.''...

Joanna Kuebler, a spokeswoman for Brown, issued the following statement Monday evening: "The campaign has been assured by Mr. Lucas that he was not part of any supposed effort to spread rumors.''



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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I just can't beleive Sherrod would authorize this
Sorry. He is not a complete bastard no matter what some people want to believe.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. This falls under even if he did not know,
BIG IF, if his campaign staff was doing it, he is guily.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I believe Paul Hackett.
Sherrod already showed his colors and damaged his progressive base support by betraying Paul Hackett when he said he would not run for the Senate....then three days after Paul announces he pops out with a shank blade and stabs Paul in the heart......announces he will run for the Senate. I am greatly disappointed in Brown. :cry:

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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Hackett doesn't have to be lying to be wrong
he's saying that somebody told me that somebody spread rumors. There is a lot of room for misunderstanding.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. I don't...
...someone who quit on his fellow Democrats, then spent the next week playing martyr while leaking information to help the Republicans? Please.

No one forced Hackett to withdraw (especially from a race that may well have been his to win). He did that of his own free will, and should accept responsibility for his decision, rather than going on with the "wah, wah, wah...the big mean Democratic machine didn't want me."

And if his withdrawal was really caused by the prospect of things coming out about his service in Iraq (rather than just him fuming about not being annointed by the Ohio Democrats from the get-go), I would have to wonder...just what was in those "things" in the first place? :shrug:

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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know if the Brown people did engage in a whisper campaign
if they did, they should lose the support of every Dem. And if they did, would you expect their spokesperson to say, "Oh, yes we did engage in rumor spreading of that nature."

I'm afraid this situation is going to get ugly and I blame Sens Reid and Schumer for interjecting themselves the way they did into this campaign.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Points well taken.............
I want a cleansing of this stain myself......
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't know enough about this case, but I do know the DLC
were behind Dean being classified as an "anger unstable candidate"

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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. When Dean lost the primary, he didn't go on TV and bad mouth the others
Hackett's chosen a strange path, imo.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Ding ding ding! We have a WINNER...
If this sort of behavior is what we can expect from "the new breed of Democrats," let's have some of the old breed, pronto.

Let's face it...if Hackett had been a Republican mole with the task of crippling the Democrats and assuring DeWine's re-election, would he have done anything differently?

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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. exactly my thoughts, not necessarily that Hackett is a Republican
operative, I don't think that is true, but that this going down this way is a Republican wet dream come true. Hacketts out of the way, out of the race, now it is put out there that Brown was disrespectful of an Iraq war veteran, bingo Sherrod Brown doesn't stand a chance either. It couldn't work out better for the Republicans than if they planned it. Maybe they did. What better way to get the eyes off the Republican scandal in Ohio than to engineer a Democratic scandal. I don't know what to think about either of them, unless they are both being set up here, and the whisper campaign really did come from some Republican operative.

:tinfoilhat:
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
45. yup! net result? repukes = win; dems = lose by shooting own feet
reminds me of an analogous use of the words:

"when will they ever learn? when will they eeeeeeeever learn?"

damn it ... it's about OUR country's interest, OUR democracy's interest and NOT just about SOMEONE's individual power play ... how the hell are either of these demos (let alone DeWine)any good example of our reclaiming civic values???? </rant>
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
48. if you don't think the repukes are going to use the same arguments
then you are being naivee. Brown better be able to defend it, and even if he is able to, I have the upmost confidence that diebold will do what it needs to do. ESSENTIALLY NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT THE VOTING FOR 6 YEARS

ohio was a blue state, now it is full blown red

I am NOT justifying what hackett did, but I am also not justifying what the democrats have and are doing

for six years most of the congressionial democrats essentially rubber stamped everything that bush and company have thrown their way

how are they going to defend an iraq war, when most have voted for the IWR? I was lied to doesn't cut it because there was enough people who saw through it. In addition, there are enough prominent democrats who DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD LEAVE IRAQ? Remember when Murtha came out to leave Iraq, a group of democratic Senators and congressman came out in public and contradicted him.

how are they going to defend voting for the patriot act, when most DID vote for it?

how are they going to defend the medicare prescription plan? When I wrote senator Feinstein she said that something was better than nothing? REALLY?

Most are even afraid to open their mouth for a woman's right to choose, and I have no doubt that before bush's term is over that abortion will be illegal in certain states

Until the party stands together on key issues we will continue to lose

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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. That is indeed
a dirty little fact! BINGO!

I just wish that the Dem leader would use these skills against republicans!
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
49. so do I
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think I like this....Hackett is not running and to smear Brown
this really sounds like KKKarl..
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. No, it was KKKarl behavior before Hackett dropped.
Our own has used swift boat tactics to torpedo Hackett ....an honorable man and candidate. The Brown camp has been stained. I don't think that they can even "Shout-it-Out" at this point but they will continue to try.......
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. They certainly have their share of screamers here, Lib Nurse!
Populist candidates are TARGETS for the dem old guard.

When popular candidates get cut off at the knees
because they can't be counted on to vote according
to plan on the big DLC wheel of enabling, it's time
we demanded more than "politics as usual".

I'm watching Connecticut VERY closely.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. OMG...I hope Connecticut
misses this storm....It is grueling and politically fatal for the Democratic Party. I think Ohio just got hit with an F5.

" Brownie.....your doing a heck of a job!"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Tweety played him BIG TIME !
He's a good guy who's not yet ready for prime time, no matter how much we pine for a savior......
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. They embrace O'Bama and he was
essentially a novice. I believe Brown had a tanturm and got his way from past deeds.
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. True
and it's pretty much the mo of both power bases--not, we the people.
After what I saw and heard today, Hackett, is a very raw talent, who may possibly have been a one issue candidate ( Iraq ) which is not enough to win a State wide election. That's the reality of politics....
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. It seems to me that Hackett's the one who had the tantrum...
...not Brown.

So, he had to face primary opposition. So f*ck*ng what? So do Dems in lots of races. If you can't stand a primary campaign, what on earth makes you think you'd be strong enough to go up against the Republican machine in November?

He could even have turned it to his advantage. Run as the "outsider" candidate. The "candidate for the little guy." He might well have won on that theme.

But, instead, he did what would be the most damaging to Democratic hopes -- pulled out right at the deadline (so no other alternatives to Brown could enter the race), and then make the withdrawal as messy and hostile as possible. Spread anger and distrust against Brown among Democrats, after guaranteeing that he will be the only possible candidate.

Yep, if Hackett had been a Republican plant taking orders from Rove himself, he couldn't have done a better job.

:grr:

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. There is only one party that smears people like that and it does not >
involve Sherrod Brown.

This guy is a real work of art. And to think there are still people on this board who think Hackett got screwed?

He couldn't cut it, he didn't have what it is going to take to stand up against the regime in control, to take that control away from them.

So what is he going to do? Do his part to make sure they repukes don't have to give up control. Destroy the only Democrat running.

Real piece of work he is, full of integrity... NOT!
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What he said...Hackett or his staff is not up to the task.
IMHO
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. No kidding...
He couldn't cut it, he didn't have what it is going to take to stand up against the regime in control, to take that control away from them.

So what is he going to do? Do his part to make sure they repukes don't have to give up control. Destroy the only Democrat running.

Real piece of work he is, full of integrity... NOT!


If you're going to fight, even against uphill odds...FIGHT!

If you're unwilling to fight...back down graciously.

If you're going to help Republicans...act just like Paul Hackett.

:grr:

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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
47. I think that sums it up.
Fight or withdraw. But do it gracefully. Prove you're the better candidate.

This infighting is helping no one.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. We'll never know.
The rumors could have come from Brown, they could be fantasies by Hackett, they could be a psy-ops by Hackett to smear Brown. Just as likely, they could have come from Dewine or Karl Rove.

More likely, they are rumors started by a number of people and spread by a mixture of activists and rumor-mongers. Activists on both sides who didn't like Hackett could have begun spreading the rumors, either based on lies or based on someone's misunderstanding of a picture or story. That happens in a lot of races, where supporters try to win points against an opponent by spreading stories that the candidates would disapprove of. For some, the other guy is absolutely the worst human being who could run for the job. Rumor-mongers who like to spread "insider" stories just to sound smart could have spread the stories further. These stories never appear in print or on film because there is no documentation for them, but somehow, a lot of activists "know" them.

I've got two friends running opposing primary campaigns right now, and both have called me with the most outlandish stuff about the other one. I've heard so many stories in different campaigns of sexual harrassment, adultery, drunkenness, uncontrollable temper (this seems to be a rumor in every race about someone), some sordid domestic abuse charge somewhere back in the past... Then there are the gay and lesbian rumors, the Nazi flag in a secret room rumors... Some of them come from the actual candidates, but most are just stories picked up at the grass roots level and spread by supporters of the other candidate, who can't ever believe any true Democrat (or Republican) would actually support the other guy. If only people knew how bad candidate X really was...

That's what's happening here. Hackett is understandably outraged that Brown supporters would spread rumors about him as a war criminal. Brown supporters are outraged that Hackett could think Brown was behind this. Both sides shout, get red in the face, absolutely and unequivocally believe the other candidate is completely capable of such dastardly lies...

I can't wait to see what's next. Why does anyone watch reality shows when there are perfectly good campaigns to observe?
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. You left out the last step...
That's what's happening here. Hackett is understandably outraged that Brown supporters would spread rumors about him as a war criminal. Brown supporters are outraged that Hackett could think Brown was behind this. Both sides shout, get red in the face, absolutely and unequivocally believe the other candidate is completely capable of such dastardly lies...


...while DeWine gets an early start on drafting his victory speech.

:-(

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Sadly, maybe, but not necessarily
An exciting primary, even a dirty one, can help the primary winner, since so much attention is focused on the race that the other party gets less attention. It gets the candidate's name out there, and it's up to the candidate to attach a favorable image to it.

I'm not in Ohio, but I didn't know Sherrod Brown's name until this happened. I'm sure there are people in Ohio who didn't, either. Now more people know it, so they will be watching to see which side they agree with. If Brown handles it well, he could benefit.

But it certainly has the potential to be bad. Like most good things. :)
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. It's basically the old losers against the new
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 12:57 AM by BullGooseLoony
winners. The old losers managed to keep the gates closed once again, but they won't be able to hold up for long. The Hacketts and the Deans, the new Dems with reasonable points of view, leadership and relatability, vs. a bunch of vested pink-tutus.

"Can't ya hear me knocking..."
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. yeah,Hackett's a real winner,isn't he?I'm sure Dean's really wanting
to be put together with Hackett.Oh,yeah he really wants that.Hackett's the pink tutu,spreading Rove's garbage for him,now he's in a PAC that's gonna help Republicans.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Hey- relax.
Hackett's hitting back at the machine that fucked him. This is called "justice." If you don't like it, next time don't support the machine that carries out injustices. And politically stupid ones, at that.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. it's called a sorry-ass loser attacking the party he supposedly belongs to
,a back-stabbing never-was.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. YOU, sir, are talking about a Marine, a major, a combat veteran,
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 01:33 AM by BullGooseLoony
a man who got 48% of the vote running for Congress in one of the strongest Republican districts in the nation, a true political LEADER- and a man who was systematically starved for cash by leaders in his own party after they ASKED him to run and give us a shot in the arm.

You're telling me that HACKETT stabbed the PARTY in the back? That's ridiculous, and reeks of projection and hypocrisy.

Hackett was going to destroy DeWine. Now we get to watch Brown lose. Nice job, sir. Well done- we lose, once again.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Ollie North Was a Marine officer too.Custer was a leader too.
Hackett's own lax fundraising starved him for cash.What makes you think he'd beat DeWine I can't imagine.Projection's for movies,hypocrisy's for Republicans.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
27. We're seeing the whisper campaign from Brown even
here on DU.

Not the war crimes, but the "Hackett's a mole!" shit.

The Brown insiders are all over the place.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yes, they ARE sleazy little rodents, aren't they?
Brown'll be lucky to get Hackett Dems to vote for him if these people keep spouting their propaganda.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. WHO'S a sleazy little rodent?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. You sound like you work on the Brown campaign. nt
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. wrong again.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Ok, so you're just angry then. nt
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. Did I name anybody specific?
I think everybody knows who the sleazy little rodents are...
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. you know who's a Brown insider?ESP?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. A number of them have already come out.
But, a lot of them are just the "old Dem guard," as someone put it earlier in the thread. The people who think it's okay to push out a candidate because it's somehow another candidate's "turn."
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. EVERYONE PLEASE
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 01:59 AM by themartyred
SHUT THE HECK UP WITH THE INSULTS! (just clicked reply on the last comment, no means directing it to you)


Because the more we attack the other candidate's supporters the more votes, ONE BY ONE are turned to the other side, and if you don't think that's what happens, then you don't understand how people decide on who they're voting for, it's not about who supports their needs better, if that's the case, Kerry wins 90-10, it's the APPEARANCE of who is the winner, the better candidate, the more stable situation, and we're doing NOTHING but aiding the enemy ---

PLEASE don't make anymore posts attacking each other or the candidate.


SIMPLY PUT - there's obvious miscommunication, and frustration on the part of the Hackett organization. He's venting frustration, and hopefully it's over, unless he RUNS. Otherwise, there's no reason to keep yelling such mean comments in these posts, okay?

BROWN or HACKETT (and I know BOTH of their strengths in Ohio) I'm voting for one of them!



www.cafepress.com/deadeyerichard
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
42. Hackett on Hardball transcript-
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Epiphany4z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
44. I am not sure
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 09:40 AM by Epiphany4z
What all went on with Hackett. I personally hope we haven't made a mistake. I live in pretty heavy Dem part of ohio whoever had won the primary would have had our vote. The problem spot is down south..where Paul Hackett was going over really well....ahh Time will tell.

What is important now is not to get caught up on who pushed Hackett out or who started what rumors..because all the speculation does is divide us. WE really need a more united front if we are going to take things back.

I will say I liked Hackett a lot and personally think he needs just little more seasoning...But he should come back and run again ..I hope he does and think he should be encouraged to.

I did hear him on Randy Rhodes urge people to support Brown..He said he would help if he was asked to. He said he doesn't have to want to have a beer with Mr. Brown he just has to like his politics and he does.

just my 2 pennies.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
46. Hackett says Brown is to blame for rumors about his war service
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/ba...

Tuesday, February 21, 2006
Elizabeth Auster
Plain Dealer Bureau

Washington -

...Asked by Hardball host Chris Matthews about rumors that photos exist showing him playing with human body parts, Hackett denounced the rumors and challenged anyone who could substantiate them to confront him...

Hackett had previously shied away from identifying the source of the rumors. In an interview last week with The Plain Dealer, Hackett said he believed that he knew the source of the rumors but didn't want to elaborate. He instead suggested that a reporter contact a supporter of his, Clermont County Democratic Chairman David Lane.

Lane said last week that he had no proof that a Democrat was responsible for the rumors, but he recounted a conversation last fall with Dan Lucas, an aide to Brown, in which he said Lucas told him "there are things out there about Paul that I don't think he really wants to be made public."

In a written statement Monday, Kuebler said, "the campaign has been assured by Mr. Lucas that he was not part of any supposed effort to spread rumors."

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
50. Hackett is well out of it, in my opinion-and also has a right to cry foul.
Ohio is the most politically corrupt state in the union--literally, a Republican tyranny--and it didn't get that way without the help of the Democratic Party leadership.

Recently, in Ohio, four election reform initiatives, which were predicted to win by 60/40 majorities, got flipped over, on election day, to 60/40 LOSSES! Read about it in this Bob Koehler article.* The Bushite-controlled electronic voting machines and their masters are now dictating election policy. That didn't happen without the help of the Democratic Party leadership.

* www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20...

The truth is that our Democratic Party leaders and big money donors will not permit a charismatic, populist anti-war candidate to get off the ground. That's what happened here, and we need to face it, and understand it. Someone upthread said that Hackett was a "one issue" candidate--the Iraq war. But the Iraq war is the very heart of both Republican and Democratic Party corruption--it is why we have a trillion dollar deficit; it is the worst thing they have done, slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people with no justification except greed for their oil and for our tax dollars into the pockets of Repub/Dem campaign donors and "military/industrial complex" buds. Half of the Democrats in Congress voted for this goddamned war, and most have voted for every war boondoggle. THAT. IS. THE. PROBLEM.

The unbelievable string of lies, the unprecedented secrecy, the rule of, by and for transnational corporations, the torture of prisoners, the use of our young people as cannon fodder, the truly extraordinary abuse of our troops with extended tours, inadequate equipment, an ill defined mission, and slashed veteran's programs, the failure to report or give a damn about slaughtered, injured or sick civilians, the no bid contracts, the development of horrible new weapons and spying technology/methods, the loss of much of our National Guard to Iraq, the de-funding and destruction of every common good program, like FEMA, the demoralization of the intelligence agencies and the military, with the purging of the competent and the installation of toadies and yes-men--the list goes on and on and on, of what the Iraq war--instigated by Bush and supported by half the Democrats--has done to our country. It is the heart of the matter. And any candidate for federal office who DOESN'T focus on this illegal, pre-emptive, unnecessary, unconstitutional, horrible, murderous war and its impacts on the Iraqis and on us, is a goddamned corrupt liar and corporate shill.

While nearly 60% of the American people opposed this war BEFORE the invasion (Feb. '03), and even more oppose it today, this overwhelming majority--which also opposes every other major Bush policy, foreign and domestic (way up in the 60% to 70% range)--lacks representation in Congress, and in Washington DC, in anything like its proper proportional numbers. The will of the majority is being THWARTED--by both Republicans AND Democrats. And the Democrats who are part of this junta WILL NOT PERMIT any independent-minded candidate to rise into any position that threatens the "military/industrial complex" money train, or that threatens the power relationships among the Bushites, the War Democrats and the corporations--including Diebold and ES&S electronic voting corporations (one of them funded by the mad, rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, of the lunatic Chalcedon Foundation, for godssakes!--and the other not much better, with a CEO who was a Bush/Cheney campaign.)

When this war and looting establishment takes down someone like Paul Hackett--as, for instance, they took down Kevin Shelley (the Calif Secretary of State who had sued Diebold and decertified the worst of their election theft machines prior to the 2004 election)--we who believe in good government and democracy, AND the people they take down, are left sputtering for explanations, unsure where the assault came from, at a loss, bewildered, in disarray, and easily prey to the circular firing squad syndrome. The candidate or targeted public figure is also, often, emotionally and financially drained. They have spent every resource on trying to do a good job, and they are flabbergasted at what has happened, and cannot fathom how/why their well-intended efforts have been derailed. Indeed, the Hacket/Shelley stories have many similarities. And there are dozens of parallels in the political scene (Max Cleland comes to mind, as well as Howard Dean), and there are parallels within the federal government, as to good people purged for doing their jobs (Valerie Plame, for instance--and many more).

In the case of candidates, we, the people--the grass roots--are then asked to support the candidate that has been chosen for us by this war and looting establishment. For the sake of "unity."

I am not saying that we SHOULDN'T "pull together." It might be strategically wise to do so. (I think this about Hillary Clinton, whom I believe has already been chosen, and has made her deal, to sub in for the fascists for four years, get them a Draft, scuttle any serious investigations of the Bushites, retain extralegal presidential powers--although she may not use them--and put down the veterans' protests and the food riots when the shit finally hits the fan; my reason--I think we can get an election reform bill passed under Hillary, and restore transparent elections quickly on a national basis--which I consider Priority #1 for restoring our democracy.)

I'm just saying that we must do so--"pull together"--with OPEN EYES. And, in that process--in the process of proceeding on the basis of reality and truth--we MUST allow for people like Paul Hacket to speak their minds.

Sherrod Brown is not going to win or lose because of Paul Hacket or anything Hackett says. He's going to win or lose according to dictates from the war and looting establishment to Diebold and ES&S. If he is sufficiently pliable on the war, and most especially on war profiteering (the next war--Iran)--and if this W&L establishment goes against his opponent for some reason (not sufficiently bribable for a Republican? a threat to Bushite thieves?)--Brown will win.

That is the reality. Brown is the choice of the War Democrats, who are the Bush junta's enablers. Do we support him? Maybe. We need to develop our own strategic reasons for who we support. Putting another war/corporate vote in Congress, to go along with the other War Dems, may not be in our interest. On the other hand, Brown sponsoring an election reform bill that would rid us of non-transparent elections might be worth it, in the long run.

(Note: Diebold/ES&S cannot just manufacture an election--not yet anyway. There has to be SOME support, and some money being generated. That's where we come in, on the Dem end of it. We're the "cannon fodder" of the election theft wars--used and abused, just like the soldiers in Iraq. That's also why they had to knock out Hackett early, before the primary. The primary is the only time that we, the majority, can truly influence things. There is possibly enough anger in Ohio to generate the kind of landslide needed to overcome the fraud. If that had happened, then the War Dems would have a rising antiwar star on their hands--which they absolutely do not want, and acted, deliberately, to prevent. They called all of his donors, and told them to stop donating. They apparently helped spread Rove-type, Swift-boating rumors. They got Brown back in the race, and invented a line about it being Brown's "turn." Etc.)

We have to allow for some venting by people who have been harmed by this W&L establishment (i.e., Hackett). If that "helps the Republicans," well, so did the votes of half the Democrats giving away their war powers to Bush. Why aren't we railing against THEM for that unconstitutional vote? Much, much more harm was done by that--AND by the Democratic Party leadership's TOTAL SILENCE about Bushite corporations gaining control of our election system with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code. Geez, the harm done by our non-transparent, Bushite controlled election system has been incalculable. Paul Hackett's justified complaints are NOTHING compared to harm that establishment Dem leaders have done. Their failure to take a stance against the war cost us the White House in 2004 (58% of the American people opposed to it!!!) (I think Kerry could have won by the 6% to 10% margin needed to overcome the fraud in that election--as opposed to the 4% to 5% margin by which he did win--IF he had been anti-war, anti-torture and populist on a couple of issues like universal health care.)

What the Dem leadership did to Hackett is typical, and anger at it is justified--by Hackett as well as by the rest of us. But I've learned, since November 2, 2004, that anger is not enough. It must be tempered by objectivity, cunning and strategy. We have to get over the anger, retain our highest ideals of democracy and government, and at the same time become very realistic and smart. This is what we have to work with--a highly corrupt Party (at the top). And we have somehow, in this mess and disaster, to find the way to RESTORE our right to vote.

Hackett may be just realizing how bad the situation is. He may be like a lot of us back on Nov. 3, 2004--absolutely blown away by the depth and completeness of the corruption of everything. The Republican Party. The Democratic Party. American journalism. The courts. The Congress. It was bloody awful. Then you MUST look for "first causes"--for the primary mechanisms of the sovereignty of the people, and strategize to repair them. First among them is transparent elections. Campaign contributions is big, but if you don't' have the right to vote--if the votes are counted in secret and are being fiddled--then you can't address the issue of campaign money. You first have to get the peoples' votes counted properly--so that you can put people in office who give a damn. You want to stop an illegal war/occupation? Work to get ALL the votes counted, and then that 58% of the American people who are with you--and were with you, way back before the invasion--and the even greater antiwar number today--will vote the warmongers right out of office.

---------------------

Some resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=vi...






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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
51. Dry up and blow away Hackett!
Why should anyone care what this loser/quitter says?

Your 15 minutes are past.

Buh-bye!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 03:18 PM
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53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Toucano, my friend, they crippled his campaign. They called his donor list
Why take it out on Hackett? Why not save your bitter remarks for those who are fixing elections--rather than say such things about someone who has worked so hard, and who has been through one campaign, and came so close--and I'm sure drained himself and all his resources just to do that? Why not blame the War Democrats?
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