Arrested Russian Businessman Is Carlyle Group Adviser ...(Khodorkovsky)

[cthrumatrix]

Arrested Russian Businessman Is Carlyle Group Adviser

By Greg Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, November 10, 2003; Page E04


The arrest of two of Russia's top businessmen in recent months was more than a distant headline for Washington's well-connected private equity firm, Carlyle Group.

Carlyle, known for the glittering roster of former statesmen among its partners and advisers, has ties to both Mikhail Khodorkovsky and Platon Lebedev, the jailed Russian tycoons.

Khodorkovsky, 40, Russia's richest man and former chief executive of Yukos Oil Co., serves as an adviser to Carlyle's Energy Group. He is among 15 luminaries who help the firm sort through investment opportunities in energy industries, along with former secretary of state James A. Baker III, former British prime minister John Major and Pulitzer-Prize-winning author Daniel Yergin.

Khodorkovsky was arrested last month by Russian authorities for alleged fraud and tax evasion. Because the billionaire is seen as a possible political rival to President Vladimir Putin, his arrest has unsettled the country's business community and worried foreign investors.

Carlyle spokesman Christopher W. Ullman declined to comment on the matter.

more
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20638-2003Nov10.html

[NNN0LHI]

1. Now this is an interesting development. Isn't it? n/t

[DUreader]

2. Are we having fun yet?

[hang a left]

3. Very very interesting.

Ok now let's see if we can put some pieces together here. Poppy Satan goes to Russia to, amongst other things, meet with Putin.

A couple of articles containing threats from Putin appear in the foreign presses.

Khodorkovsky is arrested and charged.

Poppy Satan retires from Carlyle and cashes in his stock.

What does this all mean?

Can someone help here?

[NNN0LHI]

4. I think it means Reagan ended the Cold war and Junior started it again?

One small detail you left out is that the Iraqis appear to have some fresh Russian built SAM's all of a sudden like from somewhere too? Wonder where they got them from?

Don

[hang a left]

18. Thank you for jogging the memory.

[Dover]

27. I wonder how long Putin will live? I expect to see headlines

saying some "Chechen rebels" or other "terrorists" did him in. The Bush thugs don't believe in diplomacy....

[NNN0LHI]

28. I don't know? This is one shrewd SOB here. Bet he uses mice too

If the Duma does ever decide he has to go it will begin with Putin having a bad cold. He will go downhill from there.

Don

[northernsoul]

60. More info on the SAMs in Iraq?

I also found it intriguing that the Iraqi guerillas have suddenly managed to down two copters in a week, but I was unaware of conclusive evidence that the weapons used were both of Russian manufacture and relatively new.

Is there a story on this somewhere?

[NNN0LHI]

70. CNN has been reporting "Soviet" manufactured today

As for being new I am assuming that there is a shelf life for these things like anything else, and don't think they have been able to import such weaponry since before the 91' Gulf war due to UN sanctions. I may be wrong though?

Don

[knowledgeispower]

43. Poppy Satan said "don't f--- with us", Putin called bluff

That is my take on it.

[sangh0]

44. Putin is protecting Russia's oil

Khodorkovsky's company was going to be sold to US energy companies, putting the US in charge of Russia's oil. Putin is putting a stop to the Carlyle-inspired fire-sale of Russia's energy assets. That's why the Bush* regime has been so silent on this arrest.

[knowledgeispower]

57. Is Putin protecting it for Russia or his own economic interests?

Seems they are all crooks one way or another these days.

[sangh0]

72. I don't know

but either way, he's keeping out of the BFEE's hands.

[leesa]

85. Possibly. I certainly trust Putin more than Bush.

[SpiralHawk]

79. Very, very, very interesting indeed

thanks, libandpro -- you got it.


"It is not a sign of good health to be well adjusted
to a sick society." -- J. Krishnamurti (1895-1986)

[jonoboy]

5. never cross a spook

remember what Putin's last job was.

[izzie]

7. But Bush has looked into his eyes.

Do not that count for something?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. The problem is Putin looked into Dubya's eyes and saw his chance

Appointing that incompetent trust-funder has seriously undermined our national security, and after meeting with Bush, Putin is well aware that our ship on state is being steered by an amateur. Things are turning out poorly.

[knowledgeispower]

45. To say the least

I'm beginning to think Shrub's legacy will not be that of the worst President in modern times, but even worse: the guy that brought down the whole fucking house of cards with his stupidity. Funny thing is, the Bushistas don't fucking care. They are just a bunch of crooks robbing this country blind. When will the people wake up and smell the coffee?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. Carlyle spokesman Christopher W. Ullman declined to comment on the matter.

my o my ...The Iron Triangle

[Nlighten1]

8. It has a nice beat but can you dance to it?

I wish I had access to Lexis/Nexis.

[Aidoneus]

9. that explains the harsh barking for the reaction

butcher thousands of Chechens across many years, these clowns sit queitly or disgustingly nod in approval. Arrest one of their billionaire elite peers, and the shrill squeel instantly put forth pierces faraway solar systems. As would be expected, the class-loyalties of these people trumps everything.

In light of these new ties, perhaps it was a message from "Pooty-Poot" to Dear Leader W that not all is well between them. :shrug:

[knowledgeispower]

58. Should it surprise anyone that Putin is taking on Shrub?

He likes his chances, and I can see why. One thing to keep in mind though is that this administration is inept at everything EXCEPT crime, so Putin may have a more formidable opponent than he realizes.

[emad]

10. Seem to remember that three or four days before Khodorkhovsky

was busted there was an anouncement that Bush Sr had 'unexpectedly' retired from Carlyle without comment

[truthisfreedom]

11. i remember that too.

look it up. it's obviously relevant.

[truthisfreedom]

16. here it is. bush senior quits carlyle group. wonder why? heh.

According to London's Financial Times, on October 20, 2003, former U.S. President George H.W. Bush retired from his position as senior adviser to the Carlyle Group. A spokesman for the investment banking firm explained that Mr. Bush had simply expressed his desire to move on to "other concerns".

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=3320&fcategory_desc=Carlyle%20Group

[knowledgeispower]

42. I was thinking the same thing

AWFULLY convenient timing, don'tcha think? I wish the media would pick up these two stories and make the link that is so fucking obvious, but we all know they won't.

[Flubadubya]

74. What does Greg Palast have to say about this?

He is usually on these kinds of stories like white on rice. He is also quite knowledgeable in this area. I'll bet he has something to say about it quite soon. Of course, as usual, he will be the lone voice crying in the wilderness.

[0007]

12. Well now Sir, that is quite a coincidence isn't it?

We now know what junior's affinity for Putin was all about, don't we? And why daddy goes to Russia last month, 'eh?

Two questions I'd like to know this morning.

1. How close is this Khodorkhovsky guy to Kenneth Lay?

2. Is it true the Queen has an involvement with the Carlyle Group?

[emad]

15. John Major is the court-appointed guardian of Prince William

and Harry and advises on the investment of the seventeen million pounds that Princess Di left them - that she got from Charles, who got it from Queen Elizabeth. Why they need a legal guardian if they actually have a father is strange.

Major is also allegedly investment adviser to Queen Elizabeth and knew of all the offshore accounts controlled by her/set up in her name during the 80s and 90s. Including the ones that were frozen and sequestrated when she was fined for harassing members of the Royal Family (non-Windsor).

The Putin/Khodorkhovsky angle: didn't Putin make a terse apology to the Russian media when Khodorkhovsky was busted, saying that it has happened to an energy honcho in the US (alluding to Lay) and no one batted an eyelid about it viz his relationship to the presidency.

[0007]

17. Perhaps John Major will be at the Royal Feast....

when junior visits the Queen next week, 'eh?

Another strange twist I find, is that Senator John McCain is saying that Putin is the bad guy and Khodorkhovsky is the good guy.

[emad]

19. Re: Royal Feast:

Yep, he'll be the stuffed turkey ok. With plenty of leftovers for those who need them for Thanxgiving later.

Served with McCain oven chips

[NNN0LHI]

21. There are no good guys here. McCain included n/t

[0007]

26. Gosh Don, there's gotta be one, LOL!!

These Carlyle guys make John Gotti look like a simpleton. eh?

[knowledgeispower]

48. There WAS a good guy on the scene

His name was Paul Wellstone. Oh yes, he knew all about this shit and was just waiting for the right time to blow the lid. Unfortunately, he had the bad luck to die in an "accident" just when his golden opportunity (Iraq war) to expose them all came to fruition. Interesting, isn't it?

[Gloria]

76. Yes, Putin did indeed make a referenc to energy guys in the US

and how that never seemed to ruffle any feathers.

I've been picking up stories on this whole deal for awhile for the World Media Watch...

This is seen as a struggle between the "oligarchs"--the new super rich in Russia since the split up of the old Soviet Union--and the goverment.

I had one article up that was esp. good at all the background info in terms of the internal politics in Russia...will try to find it....

[UpInArms]

23. interesting article from the

LaRouche publication (they do seem to have some good investigative writers)

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3034cheney_calif.html

excerpt:

Since the September 2002 session, Lord Jacob Rothschild has emerged as the "white knight" designated to save Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky, should President Vladimir Putin move against Khodorkovsky's Yukos oil empire. The same Khodorkovsky was recently a guest of Buffett et al. at the Sun Valley, Idaho ranch of Meyer Lansky's favorite broker, Herbert Allen, Jr., at the annual gathering of telecommunications executives and Wall Street speculators. According to one Russian source, Khodorkovsky capped his U.S. visit with a secret meeting with Vice President Cheney.

In July 2000, a somewhat less elite collection of financiers, technocrats, and politicians than those assembled by Lord Jacob at his British manor, had gathered at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York City, to anoint George W. Bush and Al Gore as Wall Street/ London-vetted Presidential candidates, because both men would hand financial crisis management to the Federal Reserve and the banks.

According to accounts by Reuters and the Scotsman, the Waddesdon Manor event similarly vetted the Terminator as the man for this season of wars and financial catastrophes.

[knowledgeispower]

49. Aah, another secret meeting with Cheney

Don't you kind of get the impression he is the ring man in all this? Perhaps not the most powerful (Satan, er...George H.W. has that title IMO), but he definitely makes it all come together.

[Tyler Durden]

13. HEY all the BEST criminals work for Carlyle Group.

Dis be yo sur-PRIZED look?

Shocks ME not at all.

[Octafish]

25. We make money the old-fashioned way.

We steal it.

[bleedingheart]

14. OMG! The Carlyle group is looking more like some cyborg

group that tries to control countries through alliances with business leaders and influential politicians who are greedy enough to go along...

[loudnclear]

20. Once you understand who this Russian guy really is

you will have more convincing eveidence about who is controlling the Bushcos and by proxy, the American government and it ain't al-Qaeda!

[hang a left]

22. Could you expound?

I am a sponge.

[Occulus]

24. I believe loud is thinking of

organized crime here. As in, executive mafioso.

And does that really come as a sur-prize?

Naw, I didn't think so, either...

[loudnclear]

61. Sharon visited Putin right after this happened.

go figure.

[knowledgeispower]

50. al-Qaeda is just a useful tool for control

Take our current forays into the Middle Eastern oil market, which you KNOW has the fingerprints of oil/energy tycoons all across the world on it.

[Dover]

29. Soros's offices in Moscow were raided...and there is a connection

The Moscow Times is calling it a "real estate dispute" over a rental agreement...but it seems to be connected to the Yukos CEO arrest:


Camouflage-clad men raided the Moscow offices of U.S. billionaire George Soros' Open Society Institute late Thursday and then barred employees from the building and hauled away equipment and documents by the truckload, a lawyer for the foundation said.


..snip..


Some of the institute's funding programs have been taken over by jailed Yukos owner Mikhail Khodorkovsky's Open Russia Foundation, but Stewart Paperin, executive vice president of the Open Society Institute, said the raid was not related to the ongoing legal assault on Khodorkovsky and Yukos.

"The only connection to the Yukos case is that every time property rights are abused, it creates a pervasive climate of lawlessness," he told Bloomberg.

The timing of the raid, however, raised some eyebrows, since it came the same day Soros told Bloomberg Television that Khodorkovsky's arrest was an "unmistakable signal" from the Kremlin that the oligarchs "must not step out of line."

In an interview the previous day with Khodorkovsky's newspaper Moskovskiye Novosti, Soros said there is little doubt that the former Yukos CEO's interest in politics is why he is behind bars.

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/11/10/011.html

[nolabels]

39. Holy crapola Batman, why didn't Sorros just give Puti the key to....

Executive washroom at Langley.

All of this is leading to >>>>>>>> not a good result>>>>>>>>>>>> would be my guess

For a parasite to be successful it must never overcome it's host ability to perform it's normal function before replication.

The Borg only desired control and offshoots were a concept that seemed antithetical to it

[Tinoire]

105. You made the connection too! Cool... Good to see you here!

Peace...

If only right?


:)

I didn't see your post before I wrote #104. I've been so busy on the Soros "congratulatory thread". We are in deep, deep k..a

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=211930

[Dover]

31. Yukos Cited for Allowing 'Unsystematic" Rabbit Sex

I think this might be an unwitting, yet apt, characterization of the elites' greedy globalized privatization without regulation endeavors.


Monday, Nov. 10, 2003. Page 3

Yukos Cited for Allowing 'Unsystematic' Rabbit Sex

Combined Reports The oil giant Yukos, already battered by the jailing of its head amid a politically tinged probe, also faces allegations of letting rabbits mate without supervision and of mistreating pigs, news reports said Thursday.

Some television news shows made much of the finding by the agricultural authority of the autonomous republic of Sakha that a farm belonging to a Yukos-affiliated company was mistreating animals, placing the story at the top of newscasts accompanied with footage of piglets and bunnies.

The attention underlined the intense scrutiny surrounding Yukos since the Oct. 25 arrest of former CEO Mikhail Khodorkovsky by special forces at a Siberian airport. Khodorkovsky was then jailed on charges of fraud and tax evasion and he resigned his post on Monday.....>>

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/11/10/012.html

[Dover]

32. A clean sweep...Major Yukos shareholder stripped of Senate Seat

Monday, Nov. 10, 2003. Page 3

Shakhnovsky Stripped of Senate Seat

Combined Reports A federal court in Krasnoyarsk last week upheld a request by Moscow prosecutors to strip a key Yukos shareholder of his parliamentary immunity in the latest legal move against the oil giant.

The ruling by the court in the Siberian city could now leave Vasily Shakhnovsky open to prosecution for large-scale tax evasion, which he has already been charged with. Prosecutors alleged he had evaded taxes to the tune of $965,000 from 1998 to 2000.

Shakhnovsky resigned as head of Yukos' day-to-day operations after a local legislature named him to the parliament's upper house Oct. 26.

The court ruling is the latest twist in action by prosecutors against Yukos in which the company's chief executive Mikhail Khodorkovsky has been arrested and detained in jail on charges of tax evasion and fraud. He has since stepped down from his post.

...more..>>

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/11/10/013.html

[bemildred]

33. Mr. Putin intends to keep control of Russian Oil.

That is what this is about. Mr. Khodorkovsky and his
colleagues have underestimated Mr. Putin. If I was a betting
man, I would bet on Mr. Putin in this argument. He seems to have
acted decisively and at the proper moment. It seems likely that
Poppy's "retirement" is related. I expect the show to get much
better, but one may have to pay close attention.

[Dover]

35. One look at the U.S. Gov. merger with Corporations has opened

everyone's eyes to the disasterous effects of capitalism without regulation or government intervention. The Big Energy Corporations and others already run Washington, and they are attempting to do the same in Russia. They WILL attempt to OWN the government....and Putin knows it. It's a backdoor means of grabbing power from the government...if they can't be bought outright.

It was reported that Yukos CEO was also attempting to purchase segments of the Russian media. I think Chavez would be the first to advise Putin against allowing this since he is constantly battling the corporate owned media in Venezuela (also part of the U.S. corporate master plan).

[nolabels]

46. I don't think things are that clear cut over there either

I think if you have DSL you could watch this documentary online

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/index.html
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/multimedia_assassination_of_russia.html
The Assassination Of Russia

http://eng.terror99.ru/

A 52-minute documentary, using footage originally shot by NTV. The film examines the September explosions, and focuses on the foiled bombing in Ryazan on September 22, 1999. It puts a human face onto the tragedy- you will hear from those who were there, saw it, and lived through it.

The film vividly portrays the inconsistencies in government officials' reactions to Ryazan, and their later attempts to consistently blame the Chechens. Questions about the possible involvement of the special services are raised.

Bloody September

In September of 1999, a series of middle of the night explosions shook Russian cities destroying several apartment blocks. More than 300 people died as they slept. The attacks, attributed to the Chechen terrorists, boosted the popularity of the hawkish would-be President Vladimir Putin.

Then, a strange thing happened. A bomb was defused by the local police, the trail of evidence leading to the door of FSB, the Russian secret service. The FSB was forced to admit "an ill-conceived exercise".
(snip)

[knowledgeispower]

51. Stunning similarities to 9/11 MIHOP

But tyrants have always used the same tired tactics to control the masses.

[nolabels]

62. Yea, but they haven't figured out yet is all the rules have changed

The ordinary Joe has as much of chance to figure out what the next move will be, almost even as the people that are doing it. I say we stick together and put down all these would be tyrants (beside what choice do we have?).

They are going to have a hard time trying to put the Internet genie back in the bottle, at least that would be my thinking. It also seems to me the more things get talked about and looked at, the more these folks try to be outlandish and secretive.

This works in favor of people who like REAL democracy and Human rights.

Sometimes the hunter does become the hunted

http://www.whodies.com/thrives.html

http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
The Corporations That Supplied Iraq's Weapons Program

>>> Even before Iraq released its weapons-program dossier on 7 December 2002, it was said that the report would name the corporations that supplied Iraq with the equipment and other material it needed to develop biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. Soon after the report was released, those suspicions were confirmed. Sources who had seen the report said that it identified suppliers from the US, UK, Germany, France, China, and elsewhere.

Now, that part of the report has been leaked. The leftist German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung received portions of the original, uncensored 12,000-page dossier. (The names of the corporations have been blacked out of the version of the report given to the ten non-permanent members of the Security Council.) The paper has printed the list, presented below.

(snip)

Key

A = nuclear weapon program
B = biological weapon program
C = chemical weapon program
R = rocket program
K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, and building of military plants



USA

1. Honeywell (R, K)

2. Spectra Physics (K)

3. Semetex (R)

4. TI Coating (A, K)

5. Unisys (A, K)

6. Sperry Corp. (R, K)

7. Tektronix (R, A)

8. Rockwell (K)

9. Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)

10. Finnigan-MAT-US (A)

11. Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K)

12. Dupont (A)

13. Eastman Kodak (R)

14. American Type Culture Collection (B)

15. Alcolac International (C)

16. Consarc (A)

17. Carl Zeiss - U.S (K)

18. Cerberus (LTD) (A)

19. Electronic Associates (R)

20. International Computer Systems (A, R, K)

21. Bechtel (K)

22. EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R)

23. Canberra Industries Inc. (A)

24. Axel Electronics Inc. (A)

"In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA are 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq's arms programs (A, B, C & R) are the US Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories."



China

1. China Wanbao Engineering Company (A, C, K)

2. Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd (K)

3. China State Missile Company (R)



France

1. Commissariat a l'Energie Atomique (A)
(snip)

[bemildred]

64. I don't think things are clear cut at all.

I think Shrub and his minions are over their head, and they
just got sucker punched. You can tell by the inept reaction.
The Saudi connection is a very important one too. The recent
bombing appears to be a warning. Stay tuned for the response.

I think Mr. Putin is a thug, and a very proficient one,
I doubt he would be where he is otherwise.

[bemildred]

65. One of the interesting aspects is watching the party line

on Pooty-Poot change, it is almost Stalinesque in its
speed and thoroughness.

[Cocoa]

34. Poppy was in Russia recently

It was never clear to me what he was doing there, but I remember a picture of him dressed casually, wearing ridiculous brightly-colored gym shoes.

His trip was right after a mysterious visit in Maine from Saudi Prince Bandar, who also met with Cheney on the same visit. Both meetings were secret, their spokesmen said "personal matters."

Shortly after his Russia trip, Poppy quit Carlyle.

This article's putting the Bush connection as an afterthought is absurd.

Imagine if Clinton had such a connection to the biggest crook in the world.

[knowledgeispower]

52. Did "the biggest crook in the world" give Bush a blowjob?

Because THEN the press might actually pay some attention. What a sad state of affairs.

[tom_paine]

36. We can only guess what Machiavellian macinations are afoot here

The Great Game is on again!

Humanitites Leaders battle over the scraps of this collapsing civilization and species.

Grab it while you can, boys! In 100 years there won't be much left to fight over!

[lumpy]

37. Lots of dots being connected here.

How juicy can it get.

[Unknown Known]

38. Is this Halliburton vs. Carlyle?

This is an interesting take on the Yukos matter. I know that the new guy Putin put in, Kukes, has had some connections with Halliburton in the past.

I often wondered why Dick Cheney isn't a member of Carlyle.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Carlyle Group versus Halliburton feud (New World Order squabbles)
Russian oil : Did Dick Cheney just kick Richard Perle and Kissinger in the teeth?
by "Voegelin"
November 4, 2003




There have been rumors of a fight in the adminstration over how to handle the investigation and subsequent arrest of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, CEO of Yukos oil.

The New York Times reported on July 23, 2003 that Richard Perle told a group of political anyalysts in Moscow to "Lay off Yukos Oil." That was only several weeks after the investigation had begun. Henry Kissinger, a trustee of Khodorkovsky's Open Russia Foundation, is rumored to have tried to get the State Department to pressure Putin to back off as well. The Carlyle Group is said to be on the side of Perle and Kissinger as well.

Speculation has been that Cheney, his associates at Haliburton and others have opposed these moves.

Tonight the Russian media is reporting that Simon Kukes has replaced Khodorkovsky as CEO of Yukos.

Kukes was the CEO of the Tyumen Oil Company. A press release from 1998:


Halliburton Energy Services Enters Into Alliance Agreement With Tyumen Oil Company
Business Week reported in June of 2001 that Kukos hired a 300 strong team from Halliburton to improve Tyumen's aging Samotlor oil field.

http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=3 (scroll down to bottom)

[pfitz59]

40. Dickie gazes lovingly at Rummie.

Could it be the infatuation has withstood the test of time?

[knowledgeispower]

54. Aah...true love

You find it in the strangest places! :)

[lumpy]

41. Ten to one

Hallburton & Carlyle are one and the same mixed in with nameless others. Bound to be disagreement in the upper eschelons. Sometimes power conpiracies just get sprawled out over-expanded and will splinter. Members of 'one big happy family' can get to feuding for the basic reasons, power and greed. When the balloon bursts be ready to tighten your belts and, perhaps, expect a little anarchy.

[sangh0]

47. Carlyle/Halliburton/BFEE wants Russia's oil

and Putin arrested Khoroskovsky in order to stop the US-theft of Russia's oil and gas.

[Don_G]

53. I Wonder If The RSVD Was Monitoring Poppy

On his visit to Russia and if they got any interesting info that might point to treason on Khoroskovsky's part?

It looks like it and that more information will develop fairly soon.

[knowledgeispower]

56. Putin vs. Poppy Bush

This will be quite an interesting battle. Two former (or are they?) spooks from the two most powerful intelligence agencies in the world. These guys know how to play dirty. Should be quite the chess match.

[Minstrel Boy]

71. I'd enjoy watching the chess match, but speaking as a pawn,

I have a vested interest in them quickly calling a draw.

Hey guys, anyone up for Boggle? Guys? :scared:

[ignatius]

75. So who said the cold war was over? Just as we funded and trained

AlQaeda in Afghanistan,could it be that in much the same manner Putin and Co are working with the Iraqis training and arming them against us?

Ironic isn't it and more than a little scary. Like watching a Tom Clancy novel come to life.

[Oilwellian]

59. Geez, which is worse?

The Carlyle Group controlling Russian oil or Cheney?

[soleft]

55. Was this name on the "let one happen, stop the rest" paper

You know, the guy talked about on the In the Wilderness website, was in a Canadian jail prior to 911 and wrote some stuff down on a piece of paper.

[Tinoire]

63. Goodcatch...I have a copy of that document at home and will look

I definitely remember GazProm being on that document and just did a google of Khodorkovsky & GazProm. Really wish I weren't at work!

=====================================

<snip>

The completion of the station's construction, which began in 1997 and cost $ 200 mm, is a milestone for the Tomsk region, but its significance fades in comparison to the secretive deal Yukos, Russia's second-largest oil company, struck with gas monopoly Gazprom last November and only recently made public.
Although details of the deal are being withheld, at least this much is known: Gazprom has agreed to let Yukos pump natural gas straight into the nationwide pipeline system it controls. Until now, oil companies that extracted gas but could not clean or condense it were forced to sell it to Sibur, a Gazprom subsidiary that owns a majority of Russia's gas refineries.

Thanks largely to the new station and its deal with Gazprom, Khodorkovsky said Yukos plans to boost its annual gas production more than six times to 15 bn cm by 2005, and even more if government liberalization plans for the heavily regulated domestic market take hold. Officials at Vostokgazprom, a Tomsk-based company affiliated with Gazprom, said they welcome Yukos' move.


http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnr22882.htm

[soleft]

66. Found it here, lot of Russian names but not that one

http://members.freespeech.org/ltvreeland/infamousnote.html

[bemildred]

67. Delmart Vreeland.

[Pastiche423]

68. Is he dead or alive?

I have heard both.

[grasswire]

69. I don't know

All of this is probably beyond our ken, but I'm not sure that Poppy's resignation from Carlyle is related to Russia (but could be convinced) just because of the chronology of his visit and his resignation. I was pretty convinced that the resignation was for domestic purposes as W's numbers are falling in the toilet and as the war heats up again.

Now, the other interesting matter is the Saudi bombing -- likely NOT committed by Al Queda. Who benefits most from the bombing? All commentators are saying that it reflects badly on Al Queda in the Arab world. Who wants to discredit Al Queda in that way, considering that BFEE badly needs them to be a nearly invinceable organization?

Good thread, BTW. This is what the internet does best.

[bemildred]

73. I don't know what happened to Mr. Vreeland,

and I'm not willing to invest the time in it right now.

The speculation that Poppy's resignation is related to this Russian
business is based on his recent trip there, and the fact that things
don't seem to be going in the intended way for the BFEE. It is, of
course, rank speculation.

I am assuming for the moment that the Saudi bombing serves several
purposes, and was not done by al Qaeda, although it is known that
Sheik Osama does hate the Saudi government. Two of those purposes
would be to serve as a warning to the Saudis and to discredit al
Qaeda.

It does appear to me that the Saudi's are smack in the middle of
tactical maneuvering between Pooty-Poot and the BFEE right now, and
I suspect the BFEE is trying to "destabilize" them. Time will tell.

I have read elsewhere on the web that the Saudi's recently refused us
the use of one of their pipelines for moving Iraqi oil.

I must say this is much better than watching television.

[leesa]

86. Why on earth would it reflect badly on Al Queda in the Arab world

Most everyone hates the House of Saud. I don't follow the reasoning.

[Pallas180]

87. I was just about to post that in Meeting Room. I would take bets that the

CIA or special forces had their hand in the explosions
in S.A. as they have done in every country inthe world
where war has broken out.

"Why that lousy bin Laden. He's supposed to kill the Westerners
and he's killing us, Muslims, his own brothers!"

Not hard to figure out. Good way to spin things for the consumption
of the Saudi man in the street, turn them against Al Queda, and bring
family of Saud into line with what Junior and Poppy want them to do.
Also helps to show the family of Saud they really can't be without
the protection of the USA, so they better let Junior back into the
bases the US and Poppy built. (with our tax dollars).

Who wants to take the bet? Llloyd's of London? What are the points?

[CaptainClark23]

77. Tin Hardhats ON!

LONDON (Agence France-Presse) — Control of Mikhail Khodorkovsky's shares in the Russian oil giant Yukos have passed to renowned banker Jacob Rothschild, under a deal they concluded prior to Mr. Khodorkovsky's arrest, the Sunday Times reported.
Voting rights to the shares passed to Mr. Rothschild, 67, under a "previously unknown arrangement" designed to take effect in the event that Mr. Khodorkovsky could no longer "act as a beneficiary" of the shares, it said.


http://washingtontimes.com/world/20031102-111400-3720r.htm



The Rothschilds, eh? Draw your own conclusions, and sleep with the light on.

[grasswire]

78. huh??

Wow, that's fascinating.

There's a huge roiling of the netherworld. We're just seeing a few scales and fins of this monster.

[nolabels]

89. I did a search and came up with this

http://www.rense.com/general44/aretheisraeliswilling.htm

Are The Israelis Willing To
Start World War III?
Exclusive to American Free Press
By M. Raphael Johnson
11-8-3

According to a recent article by veteran British military analyst Joseph Vialls, Russia has sent the most advanced and feared missile in the world, owned only by Russia and China, the P270 Moskit, also known as the 'Sunburn,' to Damascus and Tehran. This can only be understood as a counter to the Israeli threats to use nuclear weapons against their enemies.

(snip)

According to a Nov. 3 Agence France-Presse story, Khodorkovsky made a deal with Jacob Rothschild this year that control of the YUKOS giant would pass to Rothschild in the event of Khodorkovsky's arrest. However, the Russian government has frozen all YUKOS assets for the time being.

(snip)

Their board of trustees includes Rothschild and Henry Kissinger. The Washington, D.C. launch of the organization included Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) and Librarian of Congress James Billington, one of the leading voices against Russian traditionalism in the academic establishment. Significantly, the Open Russia Foundation recently provided Yale University with substantial grants to study the Russian economy as well as providing the Carnegie Foundation with 3 percent of its entire operating budget.

It seems that the drive to control the globe's energy is progressing. The American empire's battles in Serbia, Central Asia, Iraq and Chechnya are one and the same war. Other than fighting Israel's enemies, these adventures are also wars to control Central Asian oil and natural gas (one of the main pipelines from the Caspian Sea went straight through Serbia). The control of this wealth by the United States and Israel necessitates bypassing Russian channels. This means that the Jewish oligarchy in Russia would become the central actor in world politics.

(snip)

[Gloria]

80. OK, here is a list & links of 4 months of background articles on all this!

I've been posting these in the World Media Watch...Yukos, Bush, Alfa, CNN, etc.
Note story on PUTIN's CONNECTIONS TO "underworld" a couple of stories down from the top....
List goes from latest to earliest.....



1//The Moscow Times Wednesday, Oct. 29, 2003. Page 7
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/10/29/046.html

IRAQI OIL MINISTER TO VISIT MOSCOW TO TALK CONTRACTS

5//The Moscow Times Tuesday, Oct. 21, 2003. Page 1
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/10/21/001.html

YUKOS PROBE GOES TO THE TOP


5//The Moscow Times Monday, Oct. 13, 2003. Page 1
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/10/13/002.html

DOORS OPENING WIDER FOR EXXON
Catherine Belton


1//Moscow Times Monday, Oct. 6, 2003. Page 1 http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/10/06/001.html

YUKOS TARGETED IN 3 NEW RAIDS



3//Moscow Times Thursday, Oct. 2, 2003. Page 1
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003

NEW BOOK LINKS PUTIN TO UNDERWORLD
By Catherine Belton
Staff Writer

How involved was President Vladimir Putin in the activities of a decade-old German company now at the center of a pan-European probe into St. Petersburg mobsters, Colombian cocaine and transcontinental money laundering?


2//The Moscow Times Monday, Sep. 29, 2003. Page 10
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/09/29/007.html

OPINION: MOSCOW ON THE POTOMAC
PUTIN'S SINISTER AFGHAN ANECDOTE
By Matt Bivens


4//The Moscow Times Tuesday, Sep. 23, 2003. Page 1
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/09/23/001.html

ENERGY SUMMIT FUELS U.S. PROMISES
By Valeria Korchagina
Staff Writer


1//The Moscow Times Monday, Sep. 15, 2003. Page 1
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/09/15/001.html

BUSH SR. PAYS VISIT TO PUTIN IN SOCHI
by Vladimir Isachenkov
The Associated Press

SOCHI, Southern Russia -- Former U.S. President George Bush, on a private visit to Russia less than two weeks ahead of his son's summit with Vladimir Putin, arrived Sunday in the Black Sea resort of Sochi and was greeted warmly at the airport by the Russian leader

(SNIP)

Bush said he had been in the White House before leaving for St. Petersburg last week, and spoke of his son's liking of Putin. "Our president has a great feeling not only of respect of friendship for President Putin. This is not diplomatic language, this is right from the heart," he said.

"I seldom represent the president's view on anything, but I'm very confident in telling you of his high regard and genuine friendship," he said.

Putin returned the praise, suggesting his relationship with the younger Bush transcends politics. "When I talk with the U.S. president, our opinions do not always coincide, but the most important thing is that we have a very good rapport, very good feelings toward each other, and trust," he said.

The warm words set a cordial tone for the summit, which comes as Russia and the United States seek to patch up relations after deep disagreement over the war in Iraq and persistent international debate about the postwar situation. The Kremlin said last week that the presidents will meet Sept. 26 at the American leader's Camp David, Maryland retreat.

Putin told Bush that he has a "good reputation here in Russia" as "one of the founding fathers of good relations between Russia and the United States," citing nuclear arms limitation arms treaties reached with his help.

An unidentified Kremlin official told Interfax and Itar-Tass on Saturday that a central theme of talks between Putin and the elder Bush would be the development of Russian-U.S. relations in the past decade and the opportunities presented by the upcoming summit.

(SNIP)

Bush was expected to deliver the keynote speech at a dinner hosted by the Carlyle Group, the capital management giant that is creating a $500 million private equity fund with Alfa Group.


5//Pravda 15:29 2003-09-11
http://newsfromrussia.com/main/2003/09/11/49910.html

GEORGE BUSH SENIOR ARRIVES IN SAINT PETERSBURG

Former US President George Bush arrived in Saint Petersburg yesterday with his wife Barbara, former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger and former mayor of New York Rudolph Giuliani. As a Rosbalt correspondent reports, the visit to Saint Petersburg is a private one and the former US president has not planned any official engagements.

(SNIP)

After visiting Saint Petersburg Mr and Mrs Bush will travel to Sochi to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin and then to Moscow where they will meet former president of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev.

RELATED:
The Moscow Times Friday, Sep. 12, 2003. Page 1
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/09/12/002.html
BIG BUSH'S VISIT FUELS TALK OF BIG DEALS
By Catherine Belton
Staff Writer

You name it and market players were buzzing Thursday about the real reasons behind the former American leader's visit -- an $18 billion play by U.S. oil giant ChevronTexaco for a blocking stake in the new Yukos-Sibneft combo? The launch of a $500 million private tie-up between Alfa Group and Pentagon-connected Carlyle Group? Divvying up the hydrocarbon resources of postwar Iraq?

3//Arab News Wednesday, 10, September, 2003 (14, Rajab, 1424)


RUSSIA EXPECTS $60B SAUDI INVESTMENT
Staff Writer

JEDDAH, 10 September 2003 - Russia expects Saudi investments worth $ 60billion (SR225 billion) for new projects, Al-Hayat Arabic newspaper reported yesterday quoting a Russian diplomat in Riyadh.

The diplomat said the recent three-day visit of Crown Prince Abdullah, deputy premier and commander of the National Guard, to Moscow would help strengthen Saudi-Russian relations.

"The royal visit has paved the way for a strategic economic partnership" between the two oil giants, the Russian official told the Arabic daily.

Riyadh and Moscow, the world's No. 1 and No...


5//The Moscow Times Tuesday, Sep. 2, 2003. Page 7
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/09/02/042.html

CNN, CNBC ON BOARD FOR RBC-TV LAUNCH
By Denis Maternovsky
Staff Writer

RBC-TV, the country's first 24-hour business news channel, is set to go on air Sept. 2, after signing cooperation agreements with CNN International and CNBC Europe.

The channel is to be "equal to leading Western news and analytical TV channels and adapted for the Russian audience," the company said in a statement.


5//The Moscow Times Friday, Aug. 29, 2003. Page 5
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/08/29/044.html

CARLYLE, ALFA MULL JOINT EQUITY FUND
Combined Reports

Carlyle Group Inc., a U.S. private-equity company, is in discussions with Alfa Group on starting a $500 million private-equity fund, the Financial Times reported Thursday, without saying where it got the information.

Each company would contribute $250 million to the fund, which aims to invest in a range of Russian businesses to take advantage of predicted growth in gross domestic product of as much as 7 percent, according to the FT. Carlyle and Alfa reportedly are close to reaching agreement, it said.

2//Arab News Thursday,14 , August, 2003 (16, Jumada ath-Thani,1424 )
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=30279&d=14&m=8&y=2003

KINGDOM, RUSSIA TO EXPAND OIL COOPERATION
P.K. Abdul Ghafour, Arab News Staff

JEDDAH, 14 August 2003 - Oil giants Saudi Arabia and Russia will sign a landmark energy accord early next month to strengthen cooperation in the petroleum and gas sectors, Asharq Al-Awsat reported yesterday.

"This agreement between the world's largest exporters of oil is significant as this is the first time such an accord is being signed between them," a Russian Energy Ministry official told the Arabic daily.


5//The Moscow Times Thursday, Jul. 31, 2003. Page 1
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/07/31/001.html

By Catherine Belton
Staff Writer

OFFICIAL: YUKOS AFFAIR IS TRICKY

President Vladimir Putin is determined to keep the escalating investigations into Yukos from evolving into a wholesale review of early privatizations, according to a senior official.



5//The Moscow Times Wednesday, Jul. 23, 2003. Page 5
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/07/23/044.html

U.S. ENERGY DELEGATION IN MURMANSK
The Moscow Times

Demonstrating the United States' intensifying interest in Russian fuel resources, a high-level U.S. Energy Department delegation on Tuesday visited Murmansk, the Barents Sea port from which Washington eventually hopes to import Russian crude.

Headed by Deputy Energy Secretary Kyle McSlarrow, the delegation traveled to Murmansk after signing a protocol with Deputy Energy Minister Oleg Gordeyev in St. Petersburg on Monday aimed at strengthening investment ties and cooperation in oil field development.

The visit is part of the groundwork being laid for the second annual U.S-Russia Energy Summit to be held in St. Petersburg Sept. 21 and 22. The first was held last year in Houston, Texas.


4//The Moscow Times Monday, Jul. 21, 2003. Page 1

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/07/21/001.html

4 YUKOS MURDER PROBES OPENED

By Valeria Korchagina
Staff Writer

Stepping up the pressure on Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the Prosecutor General's Office said Friday that it has opened four new investigations into his oil giant Yukos -- and they all involve murder or attempted murder in 1998.


5//The Moscow Times Friday, Jul. 18, 2003. Page 2
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/07/18/019.html

JUST HOW FAR WILL PUTIN LET THE PENDULUM SWING?
By Simon Saradzhyan and Igor Semenenko
Staff Writer

Apart from the already evident economic damage to the country from the Yukos affair, President Vladimir Putin could be politically weakened if he continues to sit on the fence as two Kremlin clans do battle, analysts said.

[hang a left]

82. Whoa! My head is spinning. So that explosion in Riyadh, and the

closing of our offices, was just to protect the US from retaliation AFTER shit was blown up. Am I going in the right direction?

[nolabels]

98. Damn, Spot on, Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its nice to see that others do their homework on this stuff, Heck we all would be lost if we couldn't share like this

[nolabels]

100. People need to notice about what is going on here

This top link in the post illustrates very well what is happening. The effing Multinationals don't give a rats ass who or what country is controlling the oil, they just want to be able to put their pails at the end of the spigot. This installed pig here masquerading as a guy working for the Iraqis is just a puppet for the oil companies.

When and or if the US pulls the troops out of Iraq they will still be able to get theirs. They wasted no time sucking up to Putin. This is about oil, money and the powers that be keeping control. It's really nothing to do with countries (though they would like to fool you as such) Putin is only preventing in business terms what would be considered a hostile takeover. He is preventing his billionaires from selling out for the cash

Again the link from above with a snip

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/10/29/046.html
Iraqi Oil Minister to Visit Moscow to Talk Contracts

Combined Reports BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Iraqi Oil Minister Ibrahim Mohammed Bahr al-Ulum will visit Moscow for the first time since taking up his post to discuss the future of contracts between Russian oil companies and the former regime, an Iraqi official said.

Ulum accepted an invitation to visit Moscow from Energy Minister Igor Yusufov, the official from the Oil Ministry said. The invitation was delivered to the minister by the Russian ambassador in Baghdad, said the official, who did not want to be identified.

"We want to meet him as we are looking to understand whether all the contracts signed with the previous regime are still considered valid," an Energy Ministry official said in Moscow.

"We need to discuss at least six big projects, including those of LUKoil. We still believe that these contracts have been signed with the legitimate authorities and see no reason why they should not be respected."

(snip)

[moondust]

81. That explains why U.S. media immediately condemned Putin.

Before they had any facts. At first I thought it was just because he's a billionaire and therefore above the law (per Neocon Arbitrary Rule Book, Page 1, Rule 1). :smoke:

[SpiralHawk]

83. Link to another Carlyle thread here on LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=210935

Clip from:
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1066565752448

Carlyle Group, one of the US's largest private equity firms, has embraced the global fixation with mainland China and plans to open an office in Shanghai in the first quarter of 2003. {my note - I think they meant 2004)

Xiang-Dong Yang, managing director of Hong Kong-based Carlyle Asia Investment Advisors, said the firm had already started scouting for investments on the mainland. "Everyone prominent in the business is looking at a few deals, and that includes us," said Mr Yang.

<snip>

Mr Yang said Carlyle would seek deals on the mainland in sectors where it had enjoyed success in the past. "Financial services is very interesting in Asia, so is consumer and manufacturing." The firm plans to finance any deals out of its Asia- focused buy-out fund, Carlyle Asia Partners, which was established in 1998.

...more...

[nolabels]

84. Found this crazy stuff sniffing for Carlyle Group + Iraq + Khodorkovsky

http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=6203

Why Khodorkovsky Needs Kissinger
Vietnam Jew Has Been Negotiating Carlysle Group / Exxon Mobil Deals With Bush, White House Jews
(snip)
Putin must return to the United States shortly, and, now that things are going so much worse internationally for the Americans than they had imagined possible the last time Putin met George Bush Jr., it¹s no skin off Putin¹s nose if he sends his guests back to Washington with a cozy little feeling they aren¹t likely to get from reading U.S. Embassy cables or the Washington Post. Not being much of a reader, Bush Jr. prefers to get his intelligence in the form of cozy little feelings.

Besides, Putin is just a little curious himself to see how badly the U.S. government wants to save the necks and fortunes of New Russians like Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Never before has an American of Kissinger¹s rank wiped his shoes on the Kremlin doormat as the paid agent of a Russian businessman. So Putin can afford himself the pleasure of observing how the legendary warmaker in Vietnam and peacemaker in the Middle East maybe I¹ve got the war and peace back-to-front lays out the pitch for Khodorkovsky, Kissinger¹s current paymaster.

Since Yukos is far from being as secure as a secret service, it¹s possible that leaks of Khodorkovsky¹s communications with Kissinger could find their way into the public domain. But, then again, the idea that Khodorkovsky has told Kissinger what he needs doing and what he wants done, could be someone¹s idea of a joke. Why else would the Russian market listen to the current rumor that Yukos-Sibneft is engaged in negotiations with a U.S. oil major that could lead to the announcement of an equity-stake sale to the big American, either during the Sept. 24 meeting of the Russia-U.S. energy partnership in St. Petersburg or not long after, during the Putin-Bush meeting in the United States? Why on earth would a U.S. oil major think of such a risky venture if the Kremlin is likely to veto it and, maybe, keep two Yukos shareholders in prison, instead of one?

What Khodorkovsky needs Kissinger for right now is plain enough. He wants to know what the Bush Administration is prepared to do if Khodorkovsky agrees to sell, merge or swap his and Platon Lebedev¹s shares in Yukos with an American oil company. That the prospect of such a deal led to the arrest in July of Lebedev, Khodorkovsky¹s partner and co-shareholder, is already evidence of the Kremlin¹s hostility. It is also evidence of Putin¹s relative weakness and his lack of any other means to control his country¹s capital. On the other hand, Bush isn¹t looking as if he¹s made of strong stuff either. The failure of Khodorkovsky¹s appeals for White House help to date have encouraged the Kremlin to toughen its position towards the selloff of assets like Yukos and to convince Khodorkovsky that he should expect more trouble if he provokes Putin¹s anger in a showdown over who should own Yukos-Sibneft and on what terms. The weakness of the Americans has also accelerated the decline of the pro-Americans inside the Kremlin and exposed with embarrassingly clarity that this faction, led by Alexander Voloshin, the presidential chief of staff, is out of tune with their boss and unable to influence or predict what he will do next. It is already obvious as an Alfa Bank research note described the position this week that, if Khodorkovsky tries to sell out to the Americans the move Sibneft owner Roman Abramovich didn¹t dare make ³Yukos- Sibneft is sitting front and center with a large target painted on its forehead.²
(snip)

[Pallas180]

88. You all are not going back far enough. Go back to Poppy's reign. In

the early 90's Unocal,Chevron-Texaco and several others were
negotiating contracts with both the Russians or what used to
be Russian states and Iraq for their oil.

The oil companies could not close the deals. Then Clinton came
in and everything was put on hold. He wouldn't send our army in
to secure Iraq for private US oil companies to run pipe lines through
Iraq, even though Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney wrote him letters demanding that he attack Iraq for PNAC.

OUt goes Clinton, in comes Junior. And in comes Putin. The contracts oil deals with the private oil companies come alive again.Putin tries
to bring the Chechen's under control. The deal is that Saddam won't
co-operate so they are going to bring Russia's oil in pipeline and trucks to a Russian port for export. But it's expensive. Putin likes
it because it's good for Russia's economy. They need investment, business and dollars.

But the wolfpack headed by Cheney, who is a very cost effective CEO, says f--- that. That's too expensive. We have a whole army at our
call. We'll send em in, get rid of that crazy M-F Saddamm and run our
pipelines through Iraq. Much cheaper. F--- Putin.

The Russian oil barons who are connected to Carlyle say wonderful. They think only oil, just as W thinks only corporations and oil.
Putin apparently does not think only oil. Putin thinks Russia. Putin
also thinks, after I've gone to all this trouble killing Chechens these guys are screwing me over.

Khodorkovsky, head of Yukos oil is a Russian citizen. Him, Putin can
get his hands on. His arrest is a major message of his displeasure
to the US oil companies, Junior, and Carlyle. Saudi Prince who is not
too pleased with bushco either, runs to Russia to make a sweetheart deal with Putin. They'll both deal in Eurodollars and finish the bushco PNAC off. It's time the Amerikanskies get payback for lording it over us. For holding down the oil prices. "Together we will run the
vorld"

Poppy Bush and Kissinger run over to tell Putin he can't upset the world's economy. No? I'll betcha that's what Putin said.

Russia's Vietnam was in Afghanistan. They were forced to retreat and lost 10,000 or more men. Remember that? It was the US who was financing and supplying bin laden's warriors who were fighting the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Has everyone forgotten that? Did anybody think a bunch of rag-tag Taliban and Mujahidin defeated the
Russian army?

But there's still a couple of loose ends here. I don't know what this
Alfa group is. Did Daddy Bush resign Carlyle on some threat form Putin? because he knew the oil deals were finished? or because he's going to head up this new Alfa organization or some other new organization. We don't know whether things went well with Bush and
Kissinger or not well. But Putin is KGB and no one's fool.

And what was Rudi Giuliani doing there? He's really moved up to the
big boys now. And he's known to play hardball. Is Giuliani going to be the next VP? the next go-between/diplomatic post to Russia? Or was
he brought over to assess Putin? Or to draw contracts? Is he joining Kissinger & Associates representing private companies to influence
the US congress? One thing is for sure. Rudi can be just as crafty
and mean as Putin, but definitely not as diplomatic. (that would have
been one interesting meeting to be a fly on the wall)

[nolabels]

90. * and the rest of the PNAc really are dealing with a weak hand

I am glad someone has an opinion and is willing to post it. I see Putins problems as trying form alliances with others, but thanks to * that McJob is starting to look easy for the rest of the world.

Just remember * did not even win the election he was installed by judges that are mostly remnants of old republican presidents.

[hang a left]

93. Exactly, what did he need that Carlyle stock sale money for?

Fucking criminals!

[SpiralHawk]

91. Earth to US Media -

How about connecting a few dots for once? Duh. Hello.


Kick

[ignatius]

92. One more kick. This is a must read thread, it is what Iraq, Afghanistan,

and the entire enchilada is really about. The steel tariffs and the potential for a trade war called for by the EU is pretty interesting too.

Russia, the Sauds and the EU lined up against us and the Brits. We know that the US trade deficit requires $1.5 billion each and every day of foreign capital...if the Saudis decide to pull their dough out of U S dollars and invest in the EU, we will see a financial calamity in the states worse than the depression.

These greedy, crazy PNAC bastards have turned the world against us and unleashed a beast that is out of control amd will lead to the demise of the US as the world's foremost economic power.

[nolabels]

94. I think the PNAc was against the whole world from the get go

The hubris that * and his minions are demonstrating may hurt some of us in the short term, but in the long run its turning them dogs belly side up.

It seems to me that the Roman Empire ended up with similar or parallel problems of some ignorant people in charge who didn't even know that being leaders also means being subservient to all you think you rule over

http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/nov/11wto.htm
US rejects WTO ruling; trade war looms

Agencies | November 11, 2003 17:46 IST


Chances of a big trade war between the United States and Europe surfaced after the US rejected a final ruling from the World Trade Organisation denying that US steel tariffs violate global trading rules.

The world trade body had said that America's protectionist tariffs on foreign steel were illegal. However, US officials rejected the findings of the world trade body's committee when the European Union asked US to left tariffs of up to 30 per cent on steel imports.

The WTO decision, if the US accepts it, will lead to steel companies in Taiwan, Korea and Japan to resume exports aggressively to the US.

This may have some impact on Indian steel exports to America. However, Indian steel companies are unruffled over the development. They feel that even if tariffs are removed, Indian steel suppliers will not face any trouble.

Even if the US does not abide by the WTO decision, India firms are unlikely to be affected, as tariffs are already down to 24 per cent and may come up for review in March 2004.

Meanwhile, the EU said that the US faces sanctions worth $2.2 billion a year if it does not withdraw the hefty tariffs.

US President George W Bush has not yet made any decision in this regard, but US officials said that Washington was review the WTO decision.

However, no indications were given as to whether the US would roll back the tariffs that were imposed in March 2002.
(snip)

[CaptainClark23]

95. Alfa Group, Access/Renova and BP to create new company

16:20 2003-02-11

Alfa Group, Access/Renova and BP to create new company

Alfa Group, Access/Renova and British Petroleum are creating a new oil company, the companies said in a joint statement. The company will unite interests of each party and become the third largest oil company in Russia in respect to the volume of reserves and production.

The volume of proven oil reserves of the new holding is 9.488bn barrels. The annual oil production will be 1.21m barrels. The company will own five oil refineries with a combined capacity of 1m barrels per day. The holding will manage a network of 2,100 filling stations in Russia and Ukraine.

BP will have a 50 percent block of shares in the company, the other half will belong to Alfa-Group and Access/Renova (AAP). AAP will transfer to the new company its shares in the Tyumen Oil Company, SIDANKO, Rusia Petroleum, shares in the Rospan gas field in the Western Siberia and the Sakhalin-4 and Sakhalin-5 projects. BP will transfer its shares in SIDANKO, Rusia Petroleum, the Sakhalin-5 project, the network of BP filling stations in Moscow, BP assets in the oil-trading sector in Russia. In addition to these assets BP will invest some monetary resources and its own shares.

The new company will have exclusive rights to implement all projects of AAP and BP in Russia and Ukraine. It is also considering the possibilities to broaden its activities to other CIS countries and Eastern Europe.

The Board of Directors will consist of 10 members; 5 directors representing AAP and BP each.

http://english.pravda.ru/comp/2003/02/11/43257.html

[Unknown Known]

96. Got euro?

[CaptainClark23]

97. Kicking and Screaming (N/T)

[austinboy]

99. The beginning of a New World Order?

Stay tuned to see the demise of the Good Ole USA.

[hang a left]

101. No Shit! Do you think that there is any correlation between this

thread and this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=211930&mesg_id=211930

Because I sure do!

[nolabels]

102. I with you champ, I started noting this, posting on a few of these threads

Watching how seamlessly they installed beaten Nazi's across the Americas and a few other places (didn't put them in prison but gave them new functions on the other side of money that won out).

It seems the folks that snuff out JFK, MLK, Malcolm X and others only see Dollar signs and will do what ever it takes to protect that place in their mind.

Realy these others who would like to draft us in THEIR wars have much more to fear than most of us normal people

[hang a left]

103. Kicking for the connection!

[Tinoire]

104. You MUST read this thread and keep an eye OPEN!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=211930#214082

The soul of our country and of the Democratic Party are at stake. Guess who is dumping $10million to get Bush out of office?

Tickler:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102&topic_id=214046&mesg_id=214046

"Soros's foundation left 'paralysed' after raid"
Posted by Stevie D
Moscow- Fifteen years since it started work in post-Soviet Russia, US billionaire George Soros's foundation has been "paralysed" after 50 camouflage-clad men seized its Moscow offices and removed computer records and archives.

Yekaterina Geniyeva, the head of Soros's Open Society Institute in Russia, told journalists yesterday that the raid, ordered by the building's owner ostensibly because of a dispute over rent, appeared to be politically motivated.

The raid, at about midnight on Thursday, came just days after Soros publicly criticized the jailing of Russian oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky as "persecution" that would force business to submit to the state.

The organisation had lost all information on its 1,000 grant recipients.

<snip>

source: http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=565&fArticleId=282302
_____________________________________________________________________
So is this why Soros, a prominent member of the Carlyle Group, now suddenly has it in for the Bushes? And, can a relationship be drawn regarding Poppy Bush and his recent visit to Russia to meet with Putin?

[nolabels]

106. I would put nothing past them folks

This did get me thinking again

So is this why Soros, a prominent member of the Carlyle Group, now suddenly has it in for the Bushes? And, can a relationship be drawn regarding Poppy Bush and his recent visit to Russia to meet with Putin?

No matter how messed up Poppy's son is, the rescue will take place. Could pull a history lesson out of that old book called the Bible if need be. The one that tells about the king that loses or sacrifices everything for that one son that is a pain in the ass. I heard that story long ago and realized when and if I ever raised a son he would be independent enough to always bail himself out (pretty sure I have done that so far). What's this got to do with * and poppy, surely you can see what's happening. * is the miserable failure of the family and the whole world is bearing the brunt of it.

Poppy is pulling some stops to get a few Billionaires off of *'s snibily wretched back. I trust not any one of any these certified murderers, but even if you're the most evil person in the world, them family bonds are just about impossible to break. Surely Poppy didn't take Henry K with him to Moscow just to talk shop. Also I wouldn't guess Puttin is doing any of it out of good will he feels towards BFEE. When you're setting things up that could ruin your whole life and several around you do you do it in person or over the phone or correspondence? I would say that is the only reason Poppy could have took a trip over there. Any other wild guesses?

Thanks for highlighting them facts about Poppy, Tinoire we owe you for too many things

[Tinoire]

108. I'm with you on this one!

But my brain is such mush tonight from being over 5 hours late for bed :)

Will talk to you tomorrow.

I'm with you! I do not trust these people at ALL.

Here's a parting quote for you...

<snip>

The assault on Khodorkovsky and some of his associates, who make up a group of core shareholders in the company, is widely believed to have been orchestrated by Kremlin hardliners apparently alarmed by Khodorkovsky's political ambitions.

"I believe that he acted within the contraints of the law in supporting political parties. I am doing the same in the United States," said Soros.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/031104/137/292zw.html

[Tinoire]

107. More Details- funding OPPOSITION PARTIES TO PUTIN

<snip>

<snip>

President Vladimir Putin is facing one of the biggest political crises of his four-year administration after police detained Khodorkovsky, Russia's richest man, at gunpoint on October 25 in Siberia and flew him to Moscow to be jailed.

The campaign against Khodorkovsky and Yukos, which has faced a series of criminal probes since July, is widely seen as Kremlin revenge for the billionaire tycoon's funding of opposition political parties and has alarmed foreign investors.

Hungarian-born Soros, who has long had difficult relations with Moscow, in a Russian newspaper interview early this week denounced the arrest of Khodorkovsky as "persecution" that would force business to submit to the state.

http://www.news.lt/Default.aspx?DL=E&ArticleID=62551

On edit: And I LOVE this quote:

<snip>

The assault on Khodorkovsky and some of his associates, who make up a group of core shareholders in the company, is widely believed to have been orchestrated by Kremlin hardliners apparently alarmed by Khodorkovsky's political ambitions.

"I believe that he acted within the contraints of the law in supporting political parties. I am doing the same in the United States," said Soros.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/031104/137/292zw.html

[burythehatchet]

109. Two more possible pieces of the puzzle

The elevation of Condi Rice (Russia expert)
The hasty recalling of Paul Bremer

Something BIG is about to go down.

[hang a left]

110. You could be right.

[0007]

111. Will Mr. Lay bring cookies to Mr. Khodordovsky?

[demgrrrll]

112. Someone will have to help me here but apparently Exxon was part

of the mix
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3264641.stm>
and something else from the Moscow Times
<http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/11/12/011.html>
Ok the jailed business man stated that he might run against
Putin in March. He was in talks with Exxon which have been
suspended by his successor. Jailed businessman may await trial for up to two years in prison. Interesting.

[hang a left]

113. kicking cause it is all related.

[Tinoire]

114. Here's some more stuff

This is just getting worse... Forgive me if I'm duplicating anything someone already posted. I'm trying to rush out of the house

==================================

It was the day before Russia's parliamentary election campaign began that masked gunmen burst into the Moscow office of George Soros's Open Society Institute and carried away documents and computers belonging to the democracy-building organization.

The incident last week, coming on the heels of the imprisonment of billionaire tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, raised yet another outcry in the West about the political direction the country is taking.

Foreign Russia-watchers saw the raid as an attack on Mr. Soros, who had poured more than $1-billion (U.S.) into building civil society in Russia during the past decade, and as yet more proof that the country is drifting back toward authoritarianism under President Vladimir Putin.

<snip>

As the parliamentary election campaign begins, Mr. Putin's popularity in Russia remains unassailable, and both his personal approval rating and support for the pro-Putin United Russia party have gone up since the Khodorkovsky affair began.

Most ordinary Russians harbour a deep dislike for Mr. Khodorkovsky and the other so-called "oligarchs," the handful of men who became super rich by snapping up state assets during a sell-off in the early 1990s. "We are not afraid of the old times, because then we had free hospitals, free schools, free summer camps for children. We lived well, better than this," said Tatiana Sablina, a 40-year-old selling her nephew's artwork on the Arbat, Moscow's historic pedestrian mall.


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031115.wputin1115/BNStory/Front/

Soros Foundation attacked again

Saturday 15 November 2003, 6:23 Makka Time, 3:23 GMT

<snip>

Friday's attack was the second such raid in barely a week against US billionnaire George Soros' charity's headquarters, police said.

<snip>

The campaign against Yukos is seen as a Kremlin warning to big business to stay out of politics, and a bid to restore state control over the nation's energy resources.

<snip>

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/541389F8-1058-4673-93E0-F71086A298AE.htm

<snip>

George Soros, the richest of the liberal philanthropists, has publicly declared that his good work on behalf of building "open societies" worldwide is at risk because of George W. Bush's assaults on an open society at home. So Soros will spend about $100 million trying to oust Bush.

<snip>
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/11/kuttner-r-11-13.html

Investor firm puts off Russian deal
Bloomberg News Thursday, November 6, 2003
Carlyle Group, a Washington-based private equities firm, has put off plans to start a Russian buyout fund after Mikhail Khodorkovsky became the company's second adviser in the country to be jailed, its potential partner said.
.
Carlyle planned to start a fund with the Moscow-based Alfa Group. "Talks are on hold," Mark Bond, a managing director of Alfa Group's private equity unit, said by telephone. "The events of the last two weeks haven't helped." A Carlyle partner, Christopher Finn, declined to comment.
.
Carlyle has a close business relationship with Khodorkovsky, the 40-year-old chief of the oil giant Yukos who was arrested on Oct. 25 on suspicion of fraud and tax evasion. Platon Lebedev, a Carlyle advisor and the chairman of Group Menatep, a Yukos holding company, was arrested in July on similar accusations. Both deny the allegations.
.
Carlyle, which manages $16.4 billion, appoints senior political and business figures to help raise funds and identify takeover targets. Former U.S. President George H.W. Bush retired as a Carlyle adviser last month.
.
<snip>
.
Bond at Alfa said talks with Carlyle had also stalled because the American firm was less about entering into a joint venture. Carlyle operates its own buyout and real estate funds in America, Europe and Asia, though it has a joint venture with Riverstone Holdings to operate a $222 million energy and power fund. Khodorkovsky is an adviser to the energy and power fund, according to Carlyle's 2002 annual report. Lebedev is an adviser to Carlyle's European operations, which are headed by former Prime Minister John Major of Britain.
.
<snip>

http://www.iht.com/articles/116501.html


Putin does have something to be nervous about. His trip to Europe has failed. In Europe Russian president was given a cold reception and he was told straightforward that his policies concerning Chechnya and Russian business are unacceptable. Massive anti-Putin campaign started in the world’s press and was provoked by the arrest of Russian tycoon Khodorkovsky. Another warplane crash, and finally the refusal to extradite Zakayev, which the Kremlin regarded as betrayal of the British-Russian friendship.

Putin’s chief spokesman of anti-Chechen propaganda Sergei Yastrzhembsky announced Putin’s offence:

«British justice has a strange and, speaking frankly, slightly selective approach to fairness», Yastrzhembsky complained.

<snip>
As far as the culprit of Putin’s rage goes, he left the courtroom as a sort of a symbol of Moscow’s most disgraceful failure to impose its totally cheeky thesis that Russia is allegedly fighting against some «international terrorism» in Chechnya.

<snip>

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/article.php?id=1959


Houston executives question future of Russian energy deals

Stunning political developments in Russia last week could threaten millions of dollars of oil deal negotiations between Russian and U.S. companies, including companies in Houston, say two local experts who spend much of their time in Russia.

Economides said in a phone interview from Moscow that many people in Russia believe the government has "effectively re-nationalized Russia's largest oil company."

<snip>

He believes the timing of the arrest and the stock seizure was significant, coming as Yukos was believed to be nearing a merger deal with ExxonMobil.

"They were negotiating furiously here until this happened. This was a preemptive move by the government," Economides says. "They wouldn't dare go after properties owned by a big U.S. multinational company."

<snip>

Now, Stinemetz says, Khodorkovsky has let it be known that he wants to run for president and has started backing opposition political parties. ((:bounce: Just like in the US!))

<snip>

Russian oil production could reach 12 million barrels a day by the end of the decade, and in the next two to five years Russian oil exports to the U.S. could begin to displace Middle East oil, according to a recent report by Wood Mackenzie Inc., a global energy research firm.

<snip>

http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2003/11/10/story6.html
http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2003/11/10/story6.html?page=2