Fla. Student Shot by SWAT Team Member

[KansDem]

Jan. 13, 2006, 11:25AM
Fla. Student Shot by SWAT Team Member


© 2006 The Associated Press

LONGWOOD, Fla. — A SWAT team member shot and wounded an eighth-grader who appeared to be carrying a handgun at his middle school, leading to an evacuation of the school Friday morning.

The student was taken to the hospital and his condition was not immediately known.

Details of the shooting were sketchy, but Seminole County Sheriff's officials said no other students, teachers or school staff members at Milwee Middle School were injured.

Sheriff's officials had originally said the wounded boy had barricaded himself in a bathroom.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3585464.html

This is the complete article so there are many details yet unknown.

[geomon666]

1. Oh boy

Can't wait until the full story comes out on this one.

[saigon68]

2. Was the student Black ?

[seriousstan]

29. Was the gun black?

[Orangepeel]

42. gun was black. it was a pellet gun painted black to look like a glock

according to local Orlando news.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. And they got their information from the police? Hmmmm.

[Zynx]

52. Police showed the gun. He painted over the orange "fake gun" tip.

That tip is there exactly because of stuff like this. The guy really wanted to look like he had a real gun.

Guess he succeeded in that.

[LisaL]

64. The boy was depressed and wanted to get killed.

I think it's pretty clear. While I am very sorry for the child, he really left the police no choice. Suicidal people are frequently homicidal as well, so, they had no way of knowing he wasn't going to shoot and kill any of them.

[progressivebydesign]

84. That just happened her with an 18year old.

He pointed a gun painted to look like an automatic weapon.. and he was shot. Led the cops on a chase and was shot twice when he pointed the pellet gun at the cops. He'll survive, but he's about as stupid as they come. WTF are these guys thinking?

[saigon68]

56. A glock--- That's a reason to kill someone

And then they wonder how the rustics kill a whole town if a shot comes out of it.


Guess this guy won't enlist later to kill a few (insert racial epithet here)heads

[RamboLiberal]

95. It was a Beretta 92FS replica not a Glock

eom

[Orangepeel]

41. Blond white boy

The local news just showed a picture of 15 year old Christopher Penley.

[wicket]

3. hoo boy

This is going to be ugly.

[primavera]

6. Yeah, I can't wait for the gungeon crowd

... to come along and tell us how this sort of thing really says nothing at all about what a boon to society guns are.

[benEzra]

20. Somebody is probably going to prison...

whoever allowed the kid to get the gun. Leaving a firearm within the reach or access of a minor is a felony under Florida law.

[LisaL]

67. Since the firearm was a pellet gun, it's safe to say no one

will go to prison for it.

[Greyhound]

78. Perhaps, but it won't be the stormtrooper that shot a little kid. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. I'm ready for them

:popcorn:

[stop the bleeding]

4. Jeeze Florida needs their own special spot for all of the F#%ked up news

that comes out there. It seems to be something every week.

[Malikshah]

7. Here's the head of Florida's SWAT units...

Col. Flagg of M*A*S*H*

We have had problems with our special units teams in Broward county as well....

[Panda1]

16. I second that.

From strip searches to shootings and rigging of votes it's a model state in the Post-Democracy Era. The clampdown is effective...it's scary, as intended. A fearful population is a careful and quiet population. Dissent is a jailable offense. Bush warned us twice this week to be careful about what we say. He threatened us.

I also heard on the radio this morning that Florida is the most inhospitable state to the homeless. Jeb's doing a heckuva job.

[stop the bleeding]

21. that is Sarasota - and the homeless figures are a little misconstrued

I live in Tampa and NPR reported this last week and it has something to do with the fact that Sarasota doesn't have enough facilities or spots for people to stay. I can't remember all of the details but it seemed like to me that whoever did the study was on one page and the city is on another as far as criteria are concerned.

Don't forget we also have

K. Harris
Able Danger 911 terrorists lived here.
Hurricanes
Sun Cruz Casinos
Rednecks
Farris Hassan
Orlando - see Pat Robertson
I could list about a brazillion WTF's with Florida but we have touched some of the highlights

[fortyfeetunder]

71. Florida: the "pilot plant" for the entire USA?

Think about it: a Bushie runs Florida. You think he's modeling in his state what's to come for the rest of the good old USA?

[lenegal]

92. I live in Clearwater Fl

And Florida has become the sewer of America.

Tons of crime. We were highest in the country a while back.

And the Dukes of Hazard mentality drifts into the larger cities too.

I was born in CT. and moved here a long time ago.

The issue is I visited CT for a couple of years and got a whiff of the Progressive state of mind.

So much crime here, so many small minded Rednecks here, schools are 49th in the country performance.

[colonel odis]

5. florida is becoming more pathetic with each passing day.

ol' jebbie's done a bang up job of running that place, hasn't he?

if a kid barricades himself in a bathroom, why not just wait until he gets hungry or goes to sleep or gives up? talk to him for god's sake.

but nooooooooo. we've got swat teams filled with empty-headed goons who get their rocks off shooting at kids.

[saigon68]

9. These goons are the same ones in Iraq-Nam

Shooting anything that moves

[joeunderdog]

88. welcome to The Culture of Fear Anytown, USA

War on Terrah!!! War on Terrah!!! War on Terrah!!!

No wonder we have so many people with itchy trigger fingers.

[saigon68]

108. The Child is now "BRAIN DEAD"

I gues he'll mind and follow the rules now </sarcasm>

[reprobate]

10. That's why we are looking for a place to move to. Tennesse seems nice.

That of course begs the question: Will anyplace in this nation be safe now.

[pinerow]

15. I have friends in Tennessee...moved from here (Florida)

and two have moved back...they say the Fundies pretty much control it all..One was a High School teacher in Ashville...

[colonel odis]

22. isn't asheville in north carolina?

[LostinVA]

36. Yeah, it is (and a liberal bastion, too).

[reprobate]

45. Too bad. It has such pretty country. Not just flat to the horizon.

[reprobate]

72. Sorry, I forgot about Mount Dora.

[pinerow]

8. Unfortunately, this kind of story is becoming all too

common...not only here in Florida, throughtout the country too...sheesh.

[AlCzervik]

11. this part is just kind of hanging

Sheriff's officials had originally said the wounded boy had barricaded himself in a bathroom.

The way thats written it looks like the story is changing already.

[LisaL]

12. More info on the story.

"Sheriff Don Eslinger said the 15-year-old boy brought the gun to Milwee Middle School in his backpack and briefly took a fellow student hostage during a classroom scuffle.

The student then ran from the classroom and was pursued by deputies into a restroom and isolated there, Eslinger said. The school was evacuated, and no one else was injured. Officials with the sheriff's office said they had not confirmed whether the gun the boy had was real or a toy.

"At one time he held the gun to his neck. As the deputies attempted to establish dialogue, he raised the firearm and lethal force was used by the sheriff's office," Eslinger said.

The boy was taken to the hospital. His condition was unknown."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/13/school.shooting.ap/index.html

[AlCzervik]

14. if this is accurate it looks like a suicide by cop that didn't work out

for the kid.

[LisaL]

17. It's not exactly clear if it worked or not.

The condition is unknown, so the kid might still end up dead.

[AlCzervik]

18. thats true, very sad. I hope he recovers and gets some help

if the story isn't accurate then i hope an investigation starts right away, a real investigation.

[malaise]

90. He died

How sad.

[LisaL]

13. dupe

[Trillo]

19. So is the only way out of compulsed schooling now

"suicide by cop"?

Better outlaw this method of escape from school, as well as any other...

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. SWAT team shoots armed Fla. 8th-grader

SWAT team shoots armed Fla. 8th-grader
KELLI KENNEDY
Associated Press
LONGWOOD, Fla. - A suicidal eighth grader who pulled a handgun in class and forced another child into a closet was shot by a sheriff's SWAT team member Friday when he later threatened deputies, Seminole County officials said.

Sheriff Don Eslinger said the 15-year-old boy brought the gun to Milwee Middle School in his backpack. Eslinger said two students saw it and one persuaded the other to report it, causing a scuffle.

The alleged gunman told one of the students to go into a closet, ran from the classroom and "traveled with this firearm throughout the campus," Eslinger said. Deputies eventually isolated him in a restroom, and the school was evacuated.

"At one time he held the gun to his neck. As the deputies attempted to establish dialogue, he raised the firearm and lethal force was used by the sheriff's office," Eslinger said.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/13619579.htm

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. seems like he was trying suicide by cop

wonder what his condition is now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Sounds like that to me too

Poor kid.

[NFL80]

76. Sadly, he has died. n/t

[Sanity Claws]

25. a 15 yoa 8th grader?

Clearly this kid had problems.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. More like 14

[Sanity Claws]

34. The article you quoted said 15

is it wrong?

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Sorry I didn't see that

Most 8th graders are 14.

This kid must have been held back a year at some point.

[Sanity Claws]

39. He could have been held back twice.

Children in 8th grade are 13 or 14. This is only January --- a lot of the kids are still only 13 in the 8th grade.

[nautibits]

43. yeah

and his mane problem right now is that he was shot by a trigger happy cop. What was the rush? Why couldn't they try to reason with him and wait him out?

The bastards!

[Ezlivin]

26. Where is the Taser when you need it?

I thought that the Taser was intended for just such a circumstance.

Or is it only good for downing college kids who've had a couple of drinks?

[havocmom]

28. Using a taser against a gun not wise

Sorta like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[depakid]

30. Kinda depends on how and whether you can get a shot

or whether anyone else is in immediate danger.

SWAT teams are professionals.... and 8th graders are 8th graders.

[havocmom]

35. Professionals tend not to take unecessary risks with themselves & others

[depakid]

38. Key word being "unnecessary"

any local yahoo can go in a shoot a distraught 8th grader. I tend to expect more from highly trained professionals.

We'll see how the story develops.

[progressivebydesign]

85. Have you been confronted by a school shooter before?

Just wondering... cuz I think if someone pointed a gun at me, and had already threatened others with it, I'm pretty positive I'd shoot first ask questions later. But then... I have an aversion to my own death.

[booksenkatz]

27. They're calling him a gunman? Shouldn't it be gunboy?:( NT

[RamboLiberal]

40. It was a pellet gun

An eighth-grader was shot and wounded by a SWAT team officer in a school bathroom Friday after he pulled out a pellet gun that resembled a real weapon, authorities said.

<snip>

No one else was injured. The sheriff's office confirmed later that the weapon was a pellet gun fashioned to look like a 9mm handgun.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/01/13/national/a115726S16.DTL

These guns look real - so I'm not going to fault the cops at this point.

[LostinVA]

48. No, I can't, eiethr... and I'm not a n apologist for too much force

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

44. NPR report stated that the school had been evacuated and it was

just the kid and the SWAT team...

Sounds as if the concept of patience was the same as Waco or Ruby Ridge.

[progressivebydesign]

80. Oh bullshit. The kid pointed a weapon at the cops.

end of story. Anyone who tries to paint this as if the cops were villains, are just acting some chip on their own shoulder. Like a cop REALLY wants to kill an 8th grader.

[brentspeak]

46. Was an antidepressant or Ritalin involved?

Today's kids are overmedicated to the point that their brains are becoming fried.

[MetaTrope]

49. Time to start prefacing headers with [FLORIDA]...they'd fill half of LBN

:smoke:

[osaMABUSh]

50. Major FU to use such deadly force on a kid alone in a bathroom

disgusting. 8th grader for Chrissakes!

I know, I know, they're thimking another Columbine but this was no where close to being another Columbine

Poor kid...no matter what.. he had mental issues and should not have been possibly mortally wounded by some fucking 'hero' SWAT team.

[HardWorkingDem]

66. And what would you have done if you had been there?

I'd like to know what all the cop critics would have done if they had been there....

[LisaL]

69. The kid wanted to get killed by a cop.

It apparently is a common phenomena. So, he only got what he wanted, really. The police had no idea the gun was not real, nor should they assume that a person pointing the gun at them doesn't have a real gun.

[Zynx]

51. It was a replica pellet gun he painted black on the tip to look real.

Basically, looks like a completely real 9mm handgun.

Not the cop's fault.

[RamboLiberal]

53. This is the gun I believe the kid had - really looks real

This is a replica of a Beretta 92FS which I believe is what the Florida kid had.


The Beretta PV has the same markings as the real steel except for the warning markings on the lower reciever and a faint WA manufactur marking. On the real Beretta, the warning markings tells the user to refer to the manual before using the pistol, on the Beretta PV it states that WA has an exclusive patent to the Beretta logo instead.

http://www.planetairsoft.net/review-waberettapv.htm

[Zynx]

61. At a distance there would be nothing to indicate that was fake.

[Mojorabbit]

54. Saw the pellet gun on the 11 oclock news

They had it alongside a glock and it looked identical. Said he was in critical condition.
Friends said he had been bullied and had said he wished he was dead, unhappy in home and school life. Lived in a trailer park and they interviewed a lot of the kids there who knew him.

[RamboLiberal]

55. The gun I saw FL police displaying I believe was a Beretta

not a Glock. I own Glocks so I know it definitely wasn't a Glock. Here's gun kid had from CNN's website. Glocks don't have an external hammer or safety.

[saigon68]

57. Beretta Model 92FS

The pistol that beat out the Ruger P-85 in the Army trials of 1985


NOTE:ON EDIT http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg07-e.htm


submitted for USA XM9 Army Pistol Trials in 1985. Adopted by US Military as a M9 pistol, 9mm. Manufactured both in Italy and in USA, by Beretta USA company. Also adopted by many other military and law enforcement forces. Features chrome lined barrel, recurved trigger guard for improved two-hands grip, new grip panels and lanyard ring, 'Bruniton' finish, trigger bar disconnect safety.

[file83]

89. Too bad it wasn't even a pellet gun. It was a TOY gun - had no function

[RamboLiberal]

96. Where did you hear it was a toy gun and not a pellet weapon?

Looked like an Airsoft which is a pellet gun to me.

[file83]

98. I stand corrected. I misunderstood a news report....

[HockeyMom]

58. If they stun gun 5 year olds

Does this surprise anyone? NOT!

[dddem]

59. I have a stupid question

but it's legitimate. I can't figure out why, when a bear shows up in your neighborhood, they come and humanely tranquilize it to move it to a safe area. Why can't they do this with humans who clearly need help?

[Mad_Dem_X]

60. That's a good point!

They need a tranquilizer dart to use on humans, so they can remove the person from the area w/o killing or maiming them.

[LisaL]

63. Cause it takes a while for it to work.

Might be too late if the gun was real.

[Hermosa Beach Dem]

74. You've got to be kidding me!

Tranquilizers don't work instantly.....even with a direct hit, the kid would still be able to fire the gun. Would you be willing to lay your life on the line, with the hope that the kid wouldn't get a shot off? Much better concept in the case of the bear, who in all likelihood isn't sporting a gun, with a keen ability to do instant harm to some unsuspecting passerby in the time between tranquilizer hit and nap time......

[jonnyo]

62. What happened to courage?

My old man was a police officer for 35 years. I can't imagine him being faced with a child and choosing having him shot rather than just walking in there and taking it away from him.

I'm anything but what some jack ass might call an anti-gun nut. I own 3. But I have to ask has TV done that great of a job of indoctrinating us all into a world where the first and best fix to every problem is to blow someone away?

I lived in san diego for a while where the TV news helicopter is constant use around the city. Within a span of about a year the police were video taped multiple times just flat out blowing homeless dudes away that were obviously just mentally ill and armed with dangerous weapons like pen knives and sticks they found on the ground. The community response. Eh. Whatever dude.

Now I see those videos of kids just beating to death defenseless homeless people -- for fun. What kind of a sick fucked up society have we become and why the fuck are we so proud of it to the point where its ok to threaten people with jail time for even suggesting America is ever in the wrong.

[LisaL]

65. The kid only got what he wanted, which was to die.

Although he did lack a courage to do the deed himself.

[HardWorkingDem]

68. Would like some of the cop critics to tell me:

What would you have done if you were there?

The first thing that needs to be done is to remove all bias from your mind. By this I mean, remove the mental construct your mind perceives when you hear "boy", "child" or "8th grade student." I have seen 8th grade students bigger than adults. I have seen 8th grade students that look older than 15 yrs.

Then imagine being faced with a person in an agitated state that is holding what looks like a real gun. I have seen many pellet and bb guns that look and feel exactly like a real gun. Often times people are waving these things around so the end of the barrel can't be seen.

There are so many variables here, but what I really want to know is, what would all the cop critics do if they were faced with a person armed with a gun and he or she believed that person capable of shooting them.

This is not tv where cops can shoot a gun out of person's hand on the quick draw. These are things where you almost have to be there to make an informed and complete decision. Unfortunately the critique a cop for anything crowd out there doesn't feel it's necessary to give a human being the same consideration that is given to others.

[Horse with no Name]

70. As you know, I am not an apologist for police, guns or Tasers

and am an advocate for the rights of children especially.
That being said, this boy put the police in a no-win situation.
He obviously had a death wish. As a threat to others, they had no choice but to shoot him.:cry:

[lenegal]

93. I agree with you on this one but.......

The police in this hell hole of a state with palm trees are insane.

[Hermosa Beach Dem]

73. Lots of Monday morning quarterbacks on this thread

1) the kid had what looked like a real gun......not unwise of law enforcement to assume the gun is real
2) the kid pointed said gun at law enforcement......one of the easiest ways to get shot by law enforcement is to do the aforementioned
3) to all the expert critics here, what would you have done in the same situation, under the belief that the gun being pointed at you is real and about to inflict serious damage upon your own self or others? Continue talking to the kid? Can your magical talk ward off a bullet or two on a direct path to your forehead?
4) Sad situation, but I think law enforcement did what they had to do......

[Bush_MUST_Go]

75. Tragic story, for sure....

I don't want to bash law enforcement either & understand that sometimes they have NO CHOICE but to use deadly force.


What disturbs me in this case is:


There is no mention of NON-DEADLY weapons being available to the police.


Rushing the boy OUT of the bathroom, where he was NOT a risk to other students, was a bad choice.

Aren't SWAT, the top marksmen? I wonder IF they had to inflict such a serious wound & whether they couldn't have disarmed him by an expert shot to the shoulder?

[progressivebydesign]

83. They were trying to keep him from killing himself.

and leaving him in the bathroom was a sure way to have him do that. Unfortunately he forced the hand. I agree with the idea of non-lethal ways.. but if they had stumbled at all, then just like every other damn shooting at a school, they'd be villified if anyone else had gotten hurt.

The biggest responsibility for ALL OF THIS.. is the "kid". He is the ultimate decision maker, regardless of his desire to kill himself. He started all of this, and had he not done that.. none of us would be discussing this, and he'd still be alive.

[progressivebydesign]

82. I'm with you Hermosa Beach Dem. No other way it could have played out.

The police, no one knew that it was not a Glock. (A pellet gun still does shoot something, tho). It reminds me of something that I think LAPD did once, They had reporters go through a simulation that they use in training. You go thru a course and are called upon to make split second decisions as to whether you should shoot or wait. Almost all the reporters were (virtually) killed immediately in the exercise, because they second guessed the situation. It was an eye opener for monday quarterbacks who seem to think they know exactly what you should do if a gun is pointed at you...

And welcome to DU. They can be a bit rough on the newbies here at first, but it all evens out if you hang in there.

[file83]

77. VIDEO - news stream of this story right here

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2006/140106student_shot.htm

My intuition is telling me that the police painted the Red stopper Black at the end of the plastic toy gun after the shooting. You know, to prevent the public from being outraged.

Did you see the "S.W.A.T." team that was dressed completely in camoflague? The police are completely indistinguishable from Federal troops now. Wonderful.

[saigon68]

86. They should go to Iraq-Nam

And fight the IRAQI Resistance

Which the last time I checked, SHOT BACK

[RamboLiberal]

94. BS - And my intution tells me the kid painted the tip black

A lot of kids do that to make these pellet guns look more like the real thing. Stupid. In fact Airsoft has a policy that if you return one of their guns back for warranty repair with the orange tip painted over they automatically destroy the gun and could report you to authorities. It's actually a federal law.

I'm sick of some DU'ers automatically casting suspicion on the cops.

[brentspeak]

79. What bothers me most about this tragedy

The kid explicitly told the police that, one way or another, he wanted to be killed. So the police responded by...killing him.

Normally, I defend the police; but I have problems with how they dealt with this situation.

[progressivebydesign]

81. The "kid" pointed a weapon at the cops...

Shall we inform the wife and children of the cops when they are shot dead by this "kid", that they decided to second-guess it whenhe pointed a weapon at them? Do any of you here attacking the police HONESTLY believe the cops would WANT to kill a middle school student? Do you think that cops don't have their own kids? Do you think that the cops involved are not completely devastated by what went down?

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. If the kid pointed the gun (that everyone believed was real, even tho a pellet gun could have still allowed the kid to escape or overpower the cops to get their weapons) at the cops and shot them... then he would be free, and you would have an escaped, armed person who had JUST HELD ANOTHER STUDENT with the gun at his head. You really think the cops should have just assumed the gun was a fake when he pointed it them? They were TRYING TO KEEP HIM FROM KILLING HIMSELF, that's why they went in there and did not wait it out, they didn't expect him to point the gun at them.

Suicide by cop. Nice way to fuck up everyone else's life but your own. The suicider escapes it all by dying, and leaves behind a traumatizied family, school, community, and police department.

[Retired AF Dem]

91. Best post in this thread

and the absolute truth.

[VLC98]

100. Why "kid" ?

A 15 year old is a kid as far as I know. Don't you have any sympathy for him?

[brentspeak]

104. ?

I'm well aware that an officer has no choice but to pull the trigger when anything resembling a gun is aimed at him. That's not what bothers me. (You're lumping me in with someone else's comments, not mine.) What bothers me is that the cops didn't wait this out, or try to air him some other way (gas?). You disagree, and say that they couldn't wait it out, otherwise he might have shot himself. That makes no sense. They knew, or should have known, he would likely to provoke them to fire their weapons if they ventured inside, because he told them he was "either going to kill himself or die". How did they intend to save the boy's life if simply entering the bathroom at that time would likely end in their being forced to shoot him dead anyway? Being cornered in the bathroom, he's certainly not going anywhere. (If the boy initiated the personal confrontation with the SWAT officer, that's a whole other story.)

The cops didn't want to kill a middle school student, but they got suckered into doing it.

(Yes, the kid was a "kid". What else should people refer to him as, the "adult"?)

[theshadow]

106. You said it, progressivebydesign! eom

[LisaL]

87. He was asking for it, and got what he wanted.

Well, almost got what he wanted, considering he is still alive.
And suicidal people can turn homicidal at a drop of a pin sometimes, so police isn't going to sit there and wait for him to kill someone else.

[RamboLiberal]

97. If he wanted to be dead - he got what he wanted

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060114/D8F4MVNO1.html

A reportedly suicidal teenager who was shot by police while brandishing a pellet gun in his middle school has died of his injuries, his family's spokeswoman said Saturday.

Kelly Swofford, a neighbor who had been with the family all morning, stood outside their home and confirmed that 15-year-old Christopher Penley had died.

"They want to donate his organs because that is what Chris would want," Swofford said. "The family is devastated, just devastated."

<snip>

Officers who had responded to the 1,100-student school in suburban Orlando believed the gun was a Beretta 9mm, and didn't learn until after the shooting that it was a pellet gun.

<snip>

He said 'I hope I die today because I don't really like my life,'" Jeffery Swofford said.

[file83]

99. If the kid wanted to go out he should have chosen this toy:

http://www.toyarsenal.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=4T&Product_Code=M16A4LC&Category_Code=530


Now, that looks like a serious threat. Why are these even available to kids? That's just asking for shit like this to happen.

[VLC98]

101. Excellent point.

Growing up in England, I played with toy guns (even tho' I'm female) but my chances of ever seeing a real one were slim to none. In a country with so many guns laying around, I can't understand why any parent would let their kid have a toy gun. Mine never had them.

[benEzra]

102. They can be useful for teaching gun safety...

Growing up in England, I played with toy guns (even tho' I'm female) but my chances of ever seeing a real one were slim to none. In a country with so many guns laying around, I can't understand why any parent would let their kid have a toy gun. Mine never had them.

I use these to teach my kids (6 and 4) the basics of gun safety. They are green plastic toy guns that shoot suction cups. As far as the kids go, I treat these like real guns...the kids are allowed to use them under my supervision, and they MUST obey the Four Rules of gun safety while doing so, or else the session is over.

IMHO, this is a good way to teach the rules of gun safety to young children.

The Four Rules:

1. Always treat any firearm as if it is loaded.
2. Always keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
4. Always be sure of your target and know what is behind it.

For an older child, a more realistic looking fake would be appropriate. Most of the real-looking examples (Airsofts, etc.) are purchased by adults, though. If you keep a handgun, rifle, or shotgun for defensive purposes, as many Americans do, Airsoft replicas are a great way to practice when you can't go to the range...and they can be fun.

This tragic incident is why the muzzles are ALWAYS bright orange, though.



BTW, found this on another web site:



That's a plastic-pellet gun with the orange muzzle photoshopped out, as if it had been painted black. That's what the SWAT officers saw. Sad (and there may have been room for better tactics), but if you are a police officer responding to a report of an attempted school shooting, and come through a doorway and see this, what you do?

Sad situation all around.

One also wonders what made the kid so depressed, and why he felt he couldn't get help and couldn't go on.

[file83]

103. Just make sure your kids don't know how to use a black spray paint can...

That's what the dead kid did to the Red stopper at the end of his toy gun.

[benEzra]

105. I hope to teach them better than that...

including the fact that there's no shame in getting help if you are struggling with depression. And that if they are being persecuted by peers at school, I will listen and I am on their side.

[VLC98]

107. Slight difference.

The guns you pictured are used to shoot at targets, similar to nerf guns. I'm talking about the type that just make noises, accompanied by the kid aiming at people, saying, "Bang, you're dead".