Experts Say Wiretap Fight May Taint Cases

[sabra]

http://www.enidnews.com/feeds/apcontent/apstories/apstorysection/D8EL08U85.xml.txt/resources_apstoryview

Experts Say Wiretap Fight May Taint Cases

The Associated Press


WASHINGTON —

The Bush administration's decision to sometimes bypass the secretive U.S. court that governs terrorism wiretaps could threaten cases against terror suspects that rely on evidence uncovered during the disputed eavesdropping, some legal experts cautioned.

These experts pointed to this week's unprecedented resignation from the government's spy court by U.S. District Judge James Robertson as an indicator of the judiciary's unease over domestic wiretaps ordered without warrants under a highly classified domestic spying program authorized by President Bush.

...

"This is a very big deal. Judges get upset with government lawyers all the time, but they don't resign in protest unless they're really offended to the point of saying they're being misused," said Kenneth C. Bass, a former senior Justice Department lawyer who oversaw such wiretap requests during the Carter administration.

"This was definitely a statement of protest," agreed Scott Silliman, a former Air Force attorney and Duke University law professor. "It is unusual because it signifies that at least one member of the court believes that the president has exceeded his legal authority."

[Straight Shooter]

1. This is precisely what I have been saying about the illegal eavesdropping.

You cannot introduce evidence in court that has been obtained by illegal search and seizure. It's called fruit from a poison(ed) tree.

I swear, it's as if bush deliberately did this, knowing that the ultimate outcome would be that any evidence obtained would have to be thrown out because it was illegally obtained. How many hundreds, how many thousands of terrorists will never be punished because bush wants to be above the law?

[Patsy Stone]

2. Yes

"A related issue arose in a case in which the F.B.I. was monitoring the communications of a terrorist suspect under a F.I.S.A.-approved warrant, even though the National Security Agency was already conducting warrantless eavesdropping. According to officials, F.B.I. surveillance of Mr. Faris, the Brooklyn Bridge plotter, was dropped for a short time because of technical problems. At the time, senior Justice Department officials worried what would happen if the N.S.A. picked up information that needed to be presented in court. The government would then either have to disclose the N.S.A. program or mislead a criminal court about how it had gotten the information."

That was from the original article and it's bothered me since. They ran the risk of interfering with cases with warrants. OMG.

[Straight Shooter]

3. This is the point I intend to make in countering pro-spy arguments.

I won't argue civil liberties vs. protection against *cough* terrorists. I will simply point out that bush has effectively rendered null and void any evidence obtained without benefit of a warrant.

But, oh, I so very much want to see the names of those whose lines were tapped. I bet Congress would erupt into a cataclysmic uproar. Heh.

[Patsy Stone]

5. I hope I'm on the list.

Hi, Agent Mike! :hi:

Another aspect of this psychotic episode is a point a friend of mine made: All of those survivalists, nihilists, Unabombers, and cult members who believe that their government was spying on them? Vindicated! All the homegrown sociopaths are now free to do as they choose, because their one last unproven theory is proven. Great.

[buddysmellgood]

7. You don't go to court if you are an enemy combatant. I'm preparing a

nice kit...sort of a camping kit. Something that will include things we might want while in detention in a football stadium. :sarcasm:

[texpatriot2004]

10. I don't think it was ever Chumpy's intention to be anti-terrorist nt

[Straight Shooter]

13. I don't either, but illusion is a powerful tool against the masses. n/t

[texpatriot2004]

14. It certainly is. I personally think the actions of * are very pro-terror

and very pro-terrorist too; it's nice to know others think so also.

[PSPS]

4. There are no "cases against terror suspects"

> decision to sometimes bypass the secretive U.S. court that governs
> terrorism wiretaps could threaten cases against terror suspects

Why worry about threatening non-existent cases?

This illegal spying isn't being done in the furtherance of any criminal cases, otherwise they would be using FISA courts as they are required to do.

No, this is all about spying on political, business or personal adversaries. Such actions are, of course, illegal. That's why they are hiding it from judicial scrutiny.

Besides, anyone bush decides, for whatever reason, is a "terror suspect" is simply whisked off on a CIA flight to some far flung outpost in his chain of gulags to be tortured to death. No need for any "court case."

[Straight Shooter]

6. You make a very good point.

And ... what if ... bush spied on someone illegally, had that person rendered someplace where torture was inflicted, and then it comes to light that the person was completely innocent of any wrongdoing?


From the moment this story broke, I suspected that those being spied upon were not enemies of the American people, but bush's political enemies, which explains why he even ignored the 72-hour provision for retroactive warrants. I think a lot of other people are viewing it from that perspective, too.

[buddysmellgood]

8. Clearly, these people will do absolutely anything to stay in power.

[Demeter]

12. Bush Has Political Enemies?

Do Tell!

Is this why Kerry acted like a neutered dog? That sounds like blackmail and extortion to me, not to mention conspiracy.

[tinrobot]

9. So... we're even LESS safe now...

Because all these "terrorists" will be set free on technicalities.

Par for the course.

Can Bush even tie his shoes without endagering the country?

[shawn703]

11. Come on now, we all know the solution for that problem

Pretty soon "suspected terrorists" will not even need a trial and can be executed after being found guilty by law enforcement. Reminds me of Judge Dredd.

[warrens]

15. Looks like some more are ready to fly the coop

The whole court may resign in protest. Why be there if the govt. thinks it can just search or eavesdrop on anyone they want anytime they want?

This is impeachable. We have to take back the house next year, and get this punk brought up on charges.

[greiner3]

16. Just one? Should have read 'Just one, so far.' n/t