Republican wants to change Census count

[UpInArms]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-12-06T183747Z_01_SIB665915_RTRUKOC_0_US-CONGRESS-IMMIGRANTS.xml&archived=False

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Republican lawmaker on Tuesday proposed changing the U.S. Constitution to exclude non-citizens from the Census for the purpose of drawing congressional districts, a move that effectively would deny them a voice in U.S. politics.

Under the present system, as determined by the 14th amendment to the Constitution, the Census Bureau counts all individuals living in the country once every 10 years. This data is used when drawing up the 435 congressional districts and when determining each state's vote in the Electoral College that decides presidential elections.

Michigan Rep. Candice Miller wants to change that so that both legal and illegal aliens would be excluded.

"This is about fundamental fairness and the American ideal of one man or one woman, one vote," Miller told a hearing of the House of Representatives subcommittee on federalism and the census called to debate the matter.

Miller's proposal comes amid a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment, particularly among Republicans in the House of Representatives. Several proposals are under consideration to toughen border controls and make it more difficult for employers to give jobs to illegal aliens.

...more...

[Howardx]

1. immigration is 06's gay marriage

nothing new from the right

[Wickerman]

2. wtf?

Legals as well as illegals? Why stop there? Why not anyone who voted Blue last yyear? Here is the US, color it in your own image. :eyes:

[Arkana]

3. What do they want to do next? Make gays only count as 3/5ths?

Fucking bigots.

[Jim__]

4. The American ideal is no taxation without representation.

This proposed change violates that fundamental principle of founding of the United States. And, when the 14th amendment was passed, they had this explicitily in mind as attested to the exclusion from the count of non-taxed Indians.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. Grandstanding, pandering.

That's all it is. This proposal is going nowhere.

[napi21]

6. I have a question about this.

Since aliens can't vote, why would Pubs think this would be to their advantage?

Before you tell me most aliens live in Dem areas, think about that for a bit. I live near Gainesville Ga. and there are LOTS of aliens there due to the chicken business. I can guarantee you, the majority are Pubs!

What about Miami? Most of the aliens there are Pub supporters too!

[mcscajun]

7. It has to do with proportional representation, not direct voting

and somehow, they think it (the issue) will work to their advantage. Whether the result will is an arguable point.

Flag desecration amendment, definition of marriage act, census exclusions: Wedge, Wedge, Wedge. Keep drivin' dem wedges, Repubs. :puke:

[0rganism]

29. Redistricting would work to their advantage

Since the census is used for allocating House districts, if they can somehow down-count the urban areas they effectively remove Democratic reps from congress without having to campaign against them. Sure, there may be exceptions where this will remove a republican too, but overall it will hurt Dems more. Which is why the pukes will propose it.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Sure thing, who cares what the Constitution calls for...a repuke has

a better idea.

[Megahurtz]

9. Always wanting to fudge the books aren't they?

:eyes:

[newscott]

10. This might help.

Then Texas would probably lose 10-15 congresspeople. :evilgrin:

[Burma Jones]

11. Fine, go ahead..........

and we'll snap up all those pissed off Hispanic CITIZENS.

Oh, Please, don't throw me in that Briar patch, hee hee hee.

[don954]

12. not going to happen

as texas would then be reduced to about 3 EVs... :)

[superconnected]

13. Why would they care about real numbers.

This is the group that wants intelligent design taught over evolution.

Just think of how it would screw up all of the census if we didn't include immigrants. Populations density, salarys, type of living conditions, nationalities in population density and a whole lot more would quit being reported correctly.

[fshrink]

14. "one man or one woman, one vote"...

The fundamental fairness the asshole is wrapping herself in is gone like a freight train.

[slackmaster]

18. Just a nit here...

Not to defend this proposal, but non-citizens don't get to vote.

[fshrink]

20. Of course. Point was that citizens

are now also deprived, de facto, of their right to have their vote counted. Might as well propose that non-citizens cannot own a Bentley.

[0rganism]

30. This isn't about whether they vote, but redrawing congressional districts

Since states are allocated reps according to their census numbers and those reps are allocated constituents based on numbers from that census, this would slash representation anywhere that has a concentration of immigrants. Hint: urban America.

[jefferson_dem]

15. Republican wants to change Census count (exclude ALL non-citizens)

Republican wants to change Census count
By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Republican lawmaker on Tuesday proposed changing the U.S. Constitution to exclude non-citizens from the Census for the purpose of drawing congressional districts, a move that effectively would deny them a voice in U.S. politics.

Under the present system, as determined by the 14th amendment to the Constitution, the Census Bureau counts all individuals living in the country once every 10 years. This data is used when drawing up the 435 congressional districts and when determining each state's vote in the Electoral College that decides presidential elections.

Michigan Rep. Candice Miller wants to change that so that both legal and illegal aliens would be excluded.

"This is about fundamental fairness and the American ideal of one man or one woman, one vote," Miller told a hearing of the House of Representatives subcommittee on federalism and the census called to debate the matter.

<SNIP>

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=uri:2005-12-06T183747Z_01_SIB665915_RTRUKOC_0_US-CONGRESS-IMMIGRANTS.xml&pageNumber=0&summit=

[onehandle]

16. Republican wants to change Census count (exclude ALL non-millionaires)

C'mon, GOP. Go for the Brass Ring!

[Judi Lynn]

19. The Republicans have been hoping to use this right-wing genius

to knock off Senator Debbie Stabenow:

Michigan (Stabenow-D) - The Republicans are making Sen. Debbie Stabenow a target in 2006. President Bush tried to recruit Rep. Candice Miller (R), who earned a record number of votes as a statewide candidate in 1998, to challenge Stabenow, but Miller in January 2005 said that she would not run. Former Detroit City Councilman Rev. Keith Butler, Rev. Jerry Zandstra of suburban Grand Rapids and Oakland County Sheriff Mike Bouchard, a moderate who was reportedly recruited by the national party to head off the more conservative Butler, are running for the Republicans. With a sorry-looking state party, the GOP has been unable to find a high-profile challenger to Stabenow. Oct. 31
(snip/)

http://www.modernvertebrate.com/elections/2006-national/

[bluestateguy]

17. Unconstitutional

You can't change the constitution in an unconstitutional way.

[mechanical mandible]

21. Non-citizens don't vote! Why should they be counted for representation?

[bluestateguy]

23. By that logic

By that logic women should not have been counted until 1920, and slaves should not have been counted at all (they were counted as 3/5 of a person). If voting is the criterion, then we should not count non-voters either, which would eliminate at least 40% of American adults from being counted, as well as all children.

The constitution says all persons, not non-citizens.

[mechanical mandible]

25. I dunno...

It would be funny if Republicans imported people into country to get their votes.

[0rganism]

31. Because they pay taxes, that's why (nt)

[Xithras]

26. Err, yes you can.

By definition, any changes made to the Constitution are constitutional. New amendments also supercede pre-existing amendments. The Repugs could, for example, write a new amendment declaring this a christian nation, outlaw free speech, and giving corporations control of our government. If it actually passed all the steps to become an amendment, it would not only be constitional, it would be the law of the land...the first amendment would be effectively superceded.

Changes to the constitution profoundly influence the foundation of our rights in the US, and they cannot be overriden or struck by any court. Remember prohibition? When they finally decided to end it, the only way it could be done was via the passing of an additional amendment. No bill or court action could stop it.

That said, I disagree with most of the people here. Citizens are the only people who should be represented in our government, and excluding non-citizens from the tabulation of districts makes sense. There are counties right here in California where illegal and legal immigrants make up substantial portions of the population because of their agricultural economies. The districts of the people representing those areas shouldn't be redrawn to make them represent people who aren't legally entitled to a voice in our government in the first place.

[Paulie]

27. If a Census taker is going to be used to test citizenship

might as well give them POLICE powers, so they can arrest those illegals, and legals that don't have their papers handy.

The Census makes a big deal about not enquiring about the "status" of the people they count. Just mentioning this bill will sow distrust in the Census, the bastages.

An aside:

Are there any other federal programs that are based on population size? Like Education, emergency services, etc? How else are they going to screw us?

[Whoa_Nelly]

22. Good thing it takes many steps to change the Constitution

As well it should be.

[PurityOfEssence]

24. Howzabout just counting them as 3/5ths of a person?

Since they love tradition so much...

[MiniMe]

28. Census numbers are used for more than just drawing districts

Talk about single sighted vision

[0rganism]

32. True. They're also used to allocate federal funding.

This is a direct attack on the immigrant-heavy states.