Germany: 100,000 protest against Schröder's reform plans

[Dirk39]

"An estimated 100,000 demonstrators marched in Berlin this Saturday to protest against plans by the government of Chancellor Gerhard Schröder to make deep cuts to Germany's social programmes. Some protesters carried placards denouncing Schröder as a thief. Others called for a general strike. Chancellor Schröder is seeking to push through parliament a package of reforms, which include cuts to health care, unemployment benefits and pensions. They also include tax cuts designed to spur economic growth."
Source DW

Hello from Germany,
we expected about 10.000!
The red-green coalition is about the worst government Germany ever had since the end of WWII. The greens are a neoliberal rightwing party, whose members with very few exceptions are only careerists and the worst opportunists I've seen so far in my life. Schröder is just the little errand boy for Volkswagen. The situation is very desperate. It's as if the democrats would win the next election in the USA and would do things even Bush wouldn't have dared to do. So a lot of people are simply desperate and see no chance to change things, there's no party you can support anymore here in Germany, if you want to save democracy.
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[ithacan]

1. isn't there any dissent within the SPD?

is there a non-"third way" wing of the party that could threaten to bolt?

And why not a takeover of the Grüne by the fundis who seem to have been ousted by the realos a while back?

[Dirk39]

2. No,

there are some people, but what they are doing is simply a joke. And non of them voted against the Agenda 2010 - the reforms that look as if the IMF and the Worlbank would have started one of their programs in Germany. Only one single guy didn't vote against it, but rejected to vote. And the greens are simply lost, although their youth-organisation became a member of ATTAC a few weeks ago. ATTAC is one major force behind the protest in Berlin. It's the europe-wide organisation of globalisation-critics.
And you have to put into consideration that the social democratic party is far less democratic in its' structure than the american democrats. A kind of discussion and democratic fight of different candidates within the SPD as it is happening right now among the american democrats wouldn't be possible in Germany. It's really one thing more I've learned about the USA since I read DU. Before I thought the USA would be kind of a two party system, where both parties are nearly the same. Someone like Kucinich - my kind of guy - wouldn't be possible within the SPD.
But it was so great to say these 100.000 people from 14 till 89 today.
Schröder is very much like Blair, who has hijacked the labour party in GB and made it a kind of corporation. Now if only at least we would have someone like Galloway...
Dirk

[ithacan]

3. thanks dirk

doesn't sound to hopeful unless these political mobilizations continue...

[Kellanved]

11. Bullshit

This demonstration showed better than anything else that there is no other way. The organizers made complete idiots out of themselves with a complete lack of viable alternatives("We have thousands of millionaires, let them pay."). Schröder did neither hijack the party (nor did Blair) - Governing means that unpleasant things have to be done, the Party Base came to understand that. That doesn't constitute a failure, but a success. And the folks claiming that there is no difference between the parties: Did you actually read the CDU proposal?

Fact is: The conservative majority in the upper house means that Schröder has to cope with a de-facto great coalition. If any proposal has to have a chance of passing the upper house, it has to appease the conservatives.
That no reforms isn't an options should have sunk in by now - the system doesn't work with that many unemployed, the low birth-rate will soon add problems. Germany's rise to the world's top exporter is due to the strong Euro; German co operations are poor by international standards, as a rather idiotic Kohl-legislation stopped them from having capital resources.

[Imajika]

4. I'm sorry..

..but isn't Germany's economy in the crapper?

I mean, from what I've come to understand about the economic situation in Germany, the country now has virtually no choice but to cut some taxes and reign in social spending.

Isn't the CDU/CSU making big electoral gains at the expense of SPD? And the CDU/CSU have now a majority in the upper house yes? My reading of the situation is that Schroeder has little choice but to push through these reforms if he has any chance of reducing unemployemnt and getting the economy growing again. If the left of center government can't get the German economy moving again, and soon, my understanding is that the right will almost certainly win the next election.

You know, there is sometimes a need to cut taxes and slow spending on social welfare. No government can keep raising taxes and spending excessively forever. No one likes do make these kinds of changes unless it is absolutely necessary, but in Germany, this seems to be one of those times.

And yeah, no one wants their benefits cut, but despite 100,000 in the street, from what I hear most of the German people generally support Schroeder's package of reforms.

But hey, I don't live there, so you probably know much better than I what the real situation is. I am just pointing out that Germany needs to do something to reverse the economic situation or the left is going to find itself totally out of power.

Imajika

[Dirk39]

5. Germanys' economy in the crapper?

Germany now has become the biggest exporting nation in the world.
The social democrats have lost about more than 100.000 members within the last years.
The CDU has gained so many voters, because so many people don't vote anymore. You're somehow right. The problem is that in times of "globalisation", no single national government has the power to resist anymore. We're just living in post-politics times somehow. The only remaining thing to do for governements is to explain to their voters, why what the multinational-corparations and banks have pushed them to do is the best for all of us, but it isn't. If they would only have the guts to explain that they can't act anymore. The corporations and their lobbyists have just gained the power to blackmail all nations against each other. And at the same time, at least I have the impression that we're facing times like the decline of an Empire. It can't be coincidental - although Germany might be a special case - that even the economic elites haven't much more to offer than Schröder, Blair, Bush, Berlusconi and Chiraq as their whores. It's as if they send their worst and dumbest idiots to the front.
My impression is that we're going through another cold war since the beginning 80s, when Reagan and Thatcher started the neoliberal attack. And it has become much worse since the Soviet Union collapsed.
We're producing much more products and with much less effort, we're producing much more wealth. Most leaders of big corporations agree that we need only about 20% of the workers, who work now, to further guarantee economic growth in this century. All these things our politicians tell us about more work is a stupid idiotic lie. It will never ever happen, they rather pay us for breathing to improve their statistics. We just experience the biggest transfair of wealth from the have-nots to the rhich that ever happened since we are on this planet. There is more than enough for every one of us.
Dirk

[Grins]

8. It is in the crapper.

It is in the crapper. Germany accounts for about one-third of the euro zone's economic output, but had Europe's worst average annual growth rate over the past decade (1.3 percent, barely better than Japan's 1 percent). BusinessWeek, called Germany "Japan on the Rhine," and reported that the nation that gave the world aspirin was, in the 1960s, the world's leading producer of pharmaceuticals. Now, it does not have a pharmaceutical company among the world's top 15.

The labor laws in Germany were amazing to me. My company had offices there and had to let a couple of people go because of poor performance. It took a long, long time to fire them, and the company was required to pay the terminated employees their full salary for 2 years after being show the door!

Germany has to change its social and labor policies or slowly crumble, but the trade unions won’t allow it. The worrying part is that Germany (and the rest of Europe, and Japan) is depending on the US to grow its way out of its financial hole as a way for them to get out of theirs. (I had a great commentary on this, but I can’t find it when I need it!) Greenspan has cautioned that one country cannot do this on its own; it takes the Europeans (i.e., Germany), and Japan, and Southeast Asia to pull their weight also. Japan has proven incapable of doing a damn thing for over a decade, and Europe is showing the same signs of inertia. All of those countries have falling birth rates and the average age of their populations is going up! Put it all together, and the fallout could be a world wide economic headache of the first order.

[Kellanved]

12. Germany is in a unique situation (and in the crapper)

Western Germany is still doing ok (unemployment, growth - everything far better than the EU -mean), Germany as a whole isn't doing too bad - Italy, the Netherlands - even France - are doing far worse at the moment.
However the current problems are traced to two things by economists:
1. Euro too expensive: The East-German mark was changed to D-Mark without lowering the worth of the Deutsch Mark. The east Gwrman Money wasn't worth the paper, so the D_Mark should have been devaluated by at least 20%. It wasn't, and as the Euro exchange-rates were fixed the problem will continue for years, if not decades.

2. Reunification - no other Economy is assimilating a post-communistic country. Apparently Germany made almost all mistakes possible in doing so- a valuable lesson for other countries, should the need arise.

The Reforms main target is to keep the social systems going. Lowering the costs to employers and everything should help the economy short-term, however there is a problem: things like Social Security can only be cut once (nobody will ever rebuild them) and the cuts won't hold off unemployment for long.

[auH2Olost]

6. What deep cuts to Germany's social programmes?

WHich programmmes are slated to be cut?

[Dirk39]

7. It's about everything...

health care, pensions, unemployment support...
The german corporations need even more money to take over the world.

One funny thing: the thing, the neoliberals complain about the most, is that the amount of social costs, the employers have to pay, is much much much much much to high. We can't survive going on like this. We will go down. We have to do something.
The truth:
German cororations share of social costs compared to the employees: 49,3%
EU average: 57%
OECD average: 60%
France: 69,9%
Japan: 50,5%
GB: 57,4%
USA: 50,7%
And it's funny, if you have more information: All over Europe, it's just like the swedish people are told: Hey we have to act now, look what is happening in Germany! The germans are told: look what's happening in Denmark, we have to compete, the people in Denmark are told: look what the germans are doing etc. etc.
But I promis you, just wait one more year, and we will falsify our BIP as the USA is doing it now! The "hedonic" factor is just to seducing to leave it out. We should even do the same with our unemployment rates. If someone doesn't have a job for 6 month, he doesn't count anymore. If someone has worked for two hours during the last year: he has a job. And besides there must be 200.000 jobs more than we count. We're pretty sure, somewhere somehow, someone started a kind of buiz giving work to many many people...
Dirk

[auH2Olost]

9. I want more unemployment support

I'm tired. I've worked non-stop for 40+ years and have nothing. I want to quit now. I want lifetime unemployment support.

[Dirk39]

10. You simply don't get the message....

eat sand! You need to eat sand to safe our democrazy, to safe social justice, to safe mankind. We all have to wear our burden of renunciation somehow, it's just to improve life for all of us. Don't stay away from us any longer, eat sand! It tastes good and it isn't hormon-poisened like the meat, the rhich people have to eat, as if they didn't suffer enough. Be one of us now, accept what is necessary. Eat sand!
Dirk

[newyawker99]

16. Hi auH20lost!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[jonoboy]

13. eat the rich !!

show me a German corporation that is suffering and I will show the man on the moon.

If Shroeder is like Blair heaven help you.

Blair is a lying cheating disgrace to the pathetic 'new' labour..any man that can openly admire the Argentinian murdering Thatcher has rocks in his head. 'New' Labour is just toryism in new packaging.

The bosses never never EVER have to pay their fair share.

[loudnclear]

14. Tax cuts to spur economic growth?

Heard that before...how about economic stability and security. Tax cuts are not the answer. If every one would pay their fair share and stop blaming taxes for their ills and wake up to the fact that higher taxes always mean a higher standard of living. Show me one country where taxes are not high (even those that have taxes hidden as value added) and I will show you a third world, impoverished nation. Either you pay taxes or have the government take all your wealth some other way like nationalizing major industries.

[rman]

15. same problem all over the place; treacherous Left wing parties

mainstream Left turns out to be to Right:
USA: DLC - 'nough said
Brittain: Blair - many Brits feel cheated by Labour
Germany: corporatist Greens
Netherlands: Labour proposing introduction of USA-style election districts, no more "socialist equality principal", ignoring the obvious fact that Bush lied about the reasons for this war.. to name a few.