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Thom Little Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:50 PM
Original message
Ban on men sitting next to children
Air New Zealand and Qantas have banned men from sitting next to unaccompanied children on flights, sparking accusations of discrimination.

The airlines have come under fire for the policy that critics say is political correctness gone mad after a man revealed he was ordered to change seats during a Qantas flight because he was sitting next to a young boy travelling alone.

Auckland man Mark Worsley says an air steward approached him after take-off on the Christchurch to Auckland flight and told him to change seats with a women sitting two rows in front. The steward said it was the airline's policy that only women were allowed to sit next to unaccompanied children.

"At the time I was so gobsmacked that I moved. I was so embarrassed and just stewed on it for the entire flight."


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&Obje...
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hell...
...I am all for that! I don't like sitting next to children on flights!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hahahahaha!!!
:rofl:
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thanks a lot
They will now probably stick them next to solo WOMEN sitting alone. Surrogate "Mommies".
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. That's okay
As long as I don't have to talk to the little shits! I'll put on my headphones and ignore them like I ignore everyone else. If the flight attendants expect me to help the little tykes, the answer is hell no. Let the flight attendant be the babysitter, not me, no way.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. yeah, it increases the chance of the little darling being next to me
I don't mind kids under certain conditions, but if I wanted to be that close to them I'd have had some of my own. Just because I have two X chromosomes doesn't mean I'm necessarily good with strange kids - or am even inclined to be partial to them.

The last time I was on a flight with some kid obviously traveling alone, the poor man he was seated next to must have qualified for sainthood on that relatively short trip. I would have told the little brat to go play outside.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
68. Go play outside
that got a guffaw.

Good one.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
101. Hell, even when the kids are accompanied, they can be trouble...
...if the people responsible for them are dim-witted and clueless.

A few years ago, I flew on a flight from Minneapolis to Kansas City with a small child and woman who appeared to be his grandmother sitting directly in front of me. We took off with no problem, but when the grandmother suggested the kid look out the window, he began screaming and crying. This went on for awhile until the grandmother shut the window shade. The kid seemed to settle down for awhile until, and I don't know while the lady did this, the grandmother opened the window again. Perhaps the kid was getting fussy and she wanted to give him something to do. Naturally, the kid looked out and started screaming and crying again. The whole time the grandmother was trying to quiet the kid with that grandmotherly-kiddie talk ("baby talk"). Finally she shut the window shade again, and the kid quieted down again. But this scene was repeated over and over and over, all the way to Kansas City.

My nerves were frazzled we finally arrived in KC. I usually wait for everyone to exit before getting my things together (I'm usually the last one off the plane), to avoid bumping into people and holding them up in the aisle, but not this time. The instant we stopped at the terminal, I grabbed my stuff and made a bee-line toward the exit. This time, chivalry be damned!

If I had know about Einstein's tenet that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results," I would have mentioned it to the lady while dashing past her.
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. My first thought, too... (surrogate mommies)
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 09:50 PM by susanna
My second? What a bunch of crap.

edited for clarity
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
105. You'll do your affective labor and you'll like it, lady!
;-)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Ban children on flights
Problem solved!

:evilgrin:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. yeah, but this is SEXIST! Why should men get the privilege?
Women don't like sitting next to sticky figered, yelling, seat kicking brats any more than men do.

Why not ghettoize the bloody kids? Put them in the back where the smokers used to be, sell it to the parents as the part of the plane likeliest to survive a crash (true). Their parents can volunteer to sit with them (or not).

In any case, I sincerely doubt the typical jammed coach section of an airliner is fertile cruising ground for pedophiles of either sex.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. LOL!
Yeah, I guess you could look at this as favoring men. :) It is a pretty silly rule.
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LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. brats?
wouldnt a young kid who was trusted enough to fly alone know how to behave properly in that sort of situation?
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Exactly
it's the ones travelling with their parents who are the real tyrants.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ah yes, Miss Mary Kay Letourneau, would you sit next to little Villi?
Maybe you can help him with his art projects to while away the flight!

Maybe the smart thing is to stick the kid near the FA station so the FAs can keep an eye out.
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Dances with Cats Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sign me,
Agreees with Aegis, hehe....
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sexual profiling. n/t
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's just nuts.
That's criminalizing an entire gender. I don't usually take the men's side of things in a political or social debate, but in this case I certainly do.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Just goes along with the groups
that are now telling new mothers not to allow their husbands to diaper or bathe a baby because there's too much temptation to molest.

And then publish studies that show that children are emotionally stunted by not being hugged enough. Who in the hell is going to hug a kid...even your own...when you're likely to get slapped with a pedophile label for doing so?

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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Uh.... What "groups" are those?
Haven't heard that one before.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. Around here the
hospital 'new parents' classes are teaching it and my oldest son's wife was told this in a military hospital when she had her second. Having been a sexually abused child herself, this came close to destroying their marriage.



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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #55
73. Wow....
Glad I didn't hear that when my daughter was born. I would have slugged the instuctor.

I've hugged my daughter, and changed her diapers, and bathed her, and, oh yeah, curled her up with me when she was having problems sleeping, or simply needed comfort. I held her a hour after she was delivered (premie, c-section), when her mother couldn't see her for a day.

I'm overseas right now, and haven't seen my daughter save on line in 3 months. And will be three months more before I do. And when I see her, I'll hug her. And wipe whatever needs to be wiped, and comfort her when needed, and act just like a parent and a father *SHOULD* act.

Gods. Some people have more issues than National Geographic
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #73
85. I have to wonder if it isn't just another subtle
way of putting women back in their 'place'. After all, if it isn't "safe" to let daddy do some of the work of raising the kids...

Or it just might be the push by people like Dobson to take kids away from everyone and raise them in christian 'creches' where the only touch they will know will be that of a belt. But it'll make sure no more heathens, fags or atheists get raised.

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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #85
96. Sounds like a religious preoccupation with sex.
When I was a little girl, my father didn't hug me or let me sit on his lap after I was four years old. I had two sisters, and th same went for them. Later on, my mother explained that it "just wasn't done" for "moral" reasons.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. LOL.
Never heard that before but I got solid money on those who are promoting it having extreamly deep seated emotional issues.

I pity their children.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
87. Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Reason # 234,095,783,475 why I am grateful to live in Brazil.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
106. Wow, talk about a "dirty mind",
whoever came up with that twisted idea is probably the person or persons
who feel "a temptation to molest"! :freak:
Sick! :puke:
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. .......therefore, all men are evil. brilliant?
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
50. Girls are good and Boys are bad...
what happend, did you miss religous indocrination class or something?

;-)
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ban unaccompanied children on flights.
Their parents should know better.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Hey, some of us aren't rich enough to buy an extra ticket
and lose work time. There's nothing irresponsible about letting your child fly alone. The above rule is nuts (no pun intended...heh), no question about it, but let's not start demonizing the "bad" parents for a dumb airline decision.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. But you have enough money to irresponsibly send your child alone...
...in the care and company of total strangers, completely outside of your control? Your gamble if you choose to do this, your child's loss if something should happen.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Ohhh-kayyyy
Have a nice day. :hi:
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'm not a parent, but it worries me to no end to see kids by themselves nt
:shrug:
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. The airlines have a very responsible program for making sure
the kids are okay. The parent meets the flight attendant who will be keeping an eye on the child, and there are strict rules about documenting who they are allowed to release the child to at the end of the flight; you provide the name and address and relationship of the custodian. They're in the air, so they're not going to disappear (unlike the exciting but absurd movie Flight Plan); it's perfectly safe.

I always thought it looked odd until I looked into the fact that there's actually a program in place, and it was a godsend to be able to let my son travel to visit his aunt one summer; there was no other way I'd have been able to get him there, and as a single mom, it was nice to be able to give my son a treat, since we couldn't afford summer camp, and the cost of day camp alone is astronomical ($2000 for the summer).

Amusingly, they almost wouldn't release my son to me when he returned, because I had gotten a new driver's license over the summer and was carrying a temporary. I had to jump through all kinds of hoops to prove I was his mom. He thought it was pretty funny.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. Obviously not a parent...
Certainly no sin in that. Do please allow me to reassure you that it can be good training. Kids need to experience their own competence. Meeting my sons after their first Trans-Atlantic flight was such a trip!
They came out with their escort, escorting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, carrying her luggage. The flight attendant told me they had spontaneously volunteered to help and had been the best kid-passengers she'd ever had.

By the time my eldest was 16, I was confident that he could navigate LAX to my front door with no more than monetary support. The younger at 16 decided an 8 hour layover in Holland was stupid, ditched his flight and took the train. Their experiences have empowered them.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. As a kid, I flew unaccompanied all of the time.
My parents divorced when I was 7 and lived in different states. This was in the 70's, before they had the programs for unaccompanied minors they do now. I never had a problem.


Sometimes it's not viable to send an adult with the child. If a parent sees the child off, a flight attendant keeps an eye on the child during the flight, and a parent picks the kid up I don't see an issue with it. It's essentially the same thing as using a babysitter when you're gone for a few hours.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #54
81. I flew alone as an older child too. It scared the shit out of me...
...and it was rare any flight attendant would make the effort to really check on me.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
59. Until you have children of your own, you should keep your trap shut.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #59
80. Blah blah blah I'm a parent, so don't reason with me blah blah blah nt
:eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #84
94. Listen, just because you were a petrified 17-year old on a flight
doesn't mean most kids are. I think your experience was out of the norm, and that most children are able to handle flying alone better than you were able to handle it. Maybe you should talk to someone about your feelings.

Meantime, can you please let me know what is unsafe about unaccompanied minors flying? I know you won't be able to cite statistics, since this is a very safe practice. If you have a good memory, you'll remember the America West flight that sent a child to the wrong airport. That's one incident. How many unaccompanied minors fly every day?

If you were honest, you wouldn't couch this in terms of childrens' safety; rather, you'd admit how much you dislike children and wish that their presence was outlawed so as not to bother you. You're not displaying concern for the safety of children. You're trying to air a grievance about something that bothers you. You want your $200 flight to be some sort of romantic Pan-Am transatlantic flight that just doesn't exist anymore. If you don't like kids, I'd recommend you fly first class. If you can't afford that, sit with the rest of us and learn to live with the kids on the flight. Or don't fly.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
108. LOL! How dare you have concern
for someone else's child? I agree that children should not be put on flights alone. If you can't afford two tickets, don't go. I couldn't imagine putting my child on a plane with a bunch of strangers.
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Macman44 Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #59
109. I am not a parent
and I don't want to be subjected to the "little darlins" with the parents saying "oh, they are just kids."

I remember once when I took my wife out to dinner. We went to reasonably expensive restautant and everything was pleasant at first. Two women with a child each were then seated at a table next to ours. At first the children sat quietly but then the ruckus started. First it was hide and seek under their table which quickly included our table. I turned to the moms and raised my eyebrows and they grudgingly called their darlins back to their table. But that was only the begining, the noise escalated to the point that I couldn't hear my wife talking. I was slowly getting to the point of creating a scene since the mothers were obviously not concerned with the childrens behavior. The final straw came when one of the kids took the lid off of the salt shaker and threw it which landed right on my meal which had just arrived. I stood up with such force that the chair was sent flying. I walked to the table and immediately launched into them that I should not be subjected to the rotten behavior of the kids, that they were obviously rotten parents since they were only concerned with themselves and obviously not worried about the safety and well being of the kids, especially with waiters walking around with trays of hot meals and dishes trying to dodge the darlings in the aisle while they were playing tag. The manager appeared and tried to calm me down but I was beyond that point. I rather brutally told him that in an adult establishment, children should behave themselves and if they don't, should be shown the door. I also told him the two women were now responsible for paying for my uneaten meal since the brats had seen fit to season it. I got my wife and we departed the premises. I later ran into the manager at a home improvement store and he was beside himself apologizing for the other night. He related that the two women were so outraged that their precious ones were called brats that the police were called and they had to be escorted from the premises after paying for all uneaten meals. He offered to have my wife and I to come back and have a meal on the house.

I like kids and understand that kids will be kids. But there is a time and place for certain types of behavior and its up to the parents to take responsibility for their childrens behavior. I can attest that I was told in no uncertain terms if I acted up in a public establishment or in the public in general, I would not be in for a pleasant experience.
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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
98. When I flew alone from Switzerland to Canada...

They gave you that big sign around the neck and you were picked up by some ground personal who handed you to a stewardess who would spoil you to no end until you landed and were handed to another ground personal who handed you only to a person YOU KNEW AND IDENTIFIED (in this case my uncle).

My guess is that they save on flight personal and they are so stressed that they can't have an eye out for a small kid during the flight anymore. THAT's the problem.



And just so you know:
There are unaccompanied kids that cross half of Africa by foot to reach Europe because their parents died or they flee from a war... you should worry about THOSE.

And as I always say:
You can't cut all my liberties just because of one weirdo!!
Why not ban cars! They cause accidents!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. Guess what though......
If a court orders visitation with the kid and your ex out of State, you must comply, or go to jail.

Pretty fucking stupid, but I think that they still do this.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
91. Already responded to elsewhere. nt
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. There are things called "visitation orders."
Fortunately, I don't have to deal with that, but lots of people don't have a choice about whether Junior flies off to visit Dad/Mom who has moved with new wife/new husband to a new life on the opposite coast.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
92. Already responded to elsewhere. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #58
93. I missed this one, but I can guess: Another parent going apeshit nt
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
65. agreed! - and a dumb PC policy
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Oh yes, there is always an easy answer to everything ...
and it's generally wrong.

I was ordered by the childrens' court to let my retarded son travel on his own by plane to visit his father after our divorce. There was absolutely no way I could make the trip myself, so he was left in the care of air-stewards to cross from one side of the continent to the other, with a 2 hour stop-over part way.

I have no idea what the poor plane staff and passengers may have suffered because of this, but the choice I was given was to go along with this or permanently lose custody of my son.

He always arrived back glowing. The flight staff, from the stories my son told, were wonderful to him, he perceived everyone on those trips as kind and friendly. They are some of his favourite memories.

As for whether he sat next to men or women, that was never relevant. Not all the dangerous people in this world are male.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Then your judge had poor judgement...
...and as such has the lion's share of culpability in your situation as there wasn't much you could have done.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Living involves risk, always.
A meteorite could slam through your ceiling and kill you tomorrow.

I sent my daughter for a holiday with people I should have been able to trust, my own parents, having blocked out the memories of what my mother had done to me as a child. My daughter was very lucky to survive. However if she had not been holidaying, she would have been in a friend's car, being driven to school, when this friend was run off the road by someone she knew, and the car landed, shredded, at the bottom of a steep cliff. Tina survived, but the passenger side of the car was demolished.

The fact is, we always overestimate the danger posed by strangers, when the bulk of inflicted harm in this world comes from people we know all too well. I've done my best to teach my beloved brats to treat people with respect and consideration, and to not be frightened of anyone.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
79. Hyperbole about meteorites adds nothing to the discussion...
...but thanks anyway.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #79
99. You are a great one to talk about hyperbole ...
There is a well documented case of a meteorite falling through a roof in America, doing considerable damage. But do you want to keep all children out of houses, lest a meteorite falls through their roof? Of course not. Even though it has happened, it is too rare an occurrence to worry about.

No, what you want to do is keep all unaccompanied children off planes, because of something that we have no reason to believe has EVER happened. That, Drose, is the hyperbole here.

The fact is, most assaults and almost all child abuse are committed by the child's own family and friends. Strangers have never been the huge danger that people who see only their fears instead of facts imagine.

My retarded son was only 5 when he first flew on his own, and now, even though he cannot read or write or count money, he is a happy, confidant young man who can take himself all over the country to visit friends. My younger son, having aspergers, is naturally extremely timid and shy, yet he too has grown to enjoy these trips and become much more confidant and urbane than his similarly afflicted but "well protected" cousins.

As I was illustrating with my reference to meteorites, life can never be without risks. But being overly protective of a child and raising them in fear, teaches them that the world is a fearful place, and makes sure they can never mature, and never feel relaxed around strangers and people who are "different."

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. It's Standard Operating Procedure In Divorce Court
I had to send my girls at very tender ages--and the elder is autistic and had difficulties communicating, following directions, toileting, and not hitting out (she has since made great progress). Her little sister hates her to this day (she was barely 6 years old at the time, and "in charge" of interpreting and being the parent). I even had to pay the airfare--with no ability to work, mind you, due to child care for the autistic child.

I might have let him have custody, except I do love my children, and didn't think giving them to a selfish, uncaring bastard who had left home to get away from being a dad was a good idea, just so he wouldn't have to pay child support (he thinks children live on air).
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. that's ridiculous
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. What's ridiculous is the Polly Annish expectation that your child...
...will be perfectly safe from the pervs of the world just having been given a chance.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
60. What's totally ridiculous is someone that has no children trying to....
...tell others with children what to do.

Totally ridiculous.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #60
78. Blah blah blah I'm a parent, so don't reason with me blah blah blah nt
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
72. You are really stuck to your notion that this is poor practice
As someone who has worked for the airlines at JFK, let me assure you your fears are baseless. These kids are accompanied every step of their trip for every airline I worked with, puddle-jumper and international. Did plenty of it myself.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. Thats a very stupid thing to say.
Putting your child on one of these flights is about as 'irrisponsible' as putting them on a school bus. I seem to remember seeing a lot of people do that.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
77. Yes, because a high percentage of school children are pedophiles
:eyes:
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
82. you have no fucking idea what you're talking about
Care to explain your idiotic comment?
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #82
90. I can't put it any simpler than I already have.
If you don't get it, that's more your problem than mine.
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #90
95. Actually, I can prove that this is your problem and not mine
You want to outlaw kids. Well, they're legal. See? You lose. Isn't it neat how that works?
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
86. Is this a warning?
Perhaps you should be the one banned.
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #86
89. A warning of what?
What are you blabbering on about?
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #89
97. Any kids traveling alone are Fair Game.
So far, I believe you're the Champion Blabberer in this thread.
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Karla Marx Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. But we must protect our Precious Childrun...
...that's why I always use the Baby Escort when I fly!




Just one of the many fine products available at http://babycage.net /
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. where in the hell did you run across this site?
if they had them back when i was a kid i`d probably be a republican psycho killer and get elected to be the president of the united states of america!
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. Do they have them for older kids too? Welcome to DU!
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Now that's an idea.
I could have stayed married if I'd had a man-sized one of those. He kept escaping from his kennel.
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Karla Marx Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. The twins just love it!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. lol.......n/t
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. I loved sitting next to unaccompanied terrorist :) on Southwest
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 06:08 PM by wakeme2008
With the Southwest no reserved seats and exit row seating with no more leg room than standard seats, I would end up seating next to UT because they boarded them first, and I tried to get in the first group of people called so I could get an axle seat, in the front of the plane. Lots of times that was with UTs.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. That's ridiculous!
I expect they'll change that policy soon.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. Fucking Idiots n/t
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. If the child's safety was the airline's priority
It's the CHILD's seat that should have been changed. Better yet, put them in the section near where the flight crew sits so they can be under constant supervision. Not only is the policy sexist, it's a presumption of guilt. And why should a female passenger be forced to have a child sit with them?

:headbang:
rocknation
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. Grate points... also
it implies that they may feel they do not need to watch the child if he/she is sitting next to females. I know how utterly unlikely it is for anthing to happen but if they are so concerned about men than they sould be paying closer attention to everyone.

And I pitty the women who are forced to sit next to the kids.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. They should really ban men sitting next to women. n/t
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
34. and if they would just ban seats altogether
they could stuff even more cattle/er I mean passengers on board.
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Don't give them ideas!
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
35. Lucky bastards.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. fine by me. i don't need some noisy complaining rug rat disrupting my
in-flight sleep. sleeping on airplanes is one of my greatest joys... it's like being able to turn a many-hour trip into a few minutes of memory.

all ranting aside, there is something sinister about insisting that children can only sit next to women right after we've seen these two infamous women convicted of sex crimes... but i can understand an airline being wary of lawsuits as well, knowing full well that male sex criminals far outnumber female ones in the court system. it's a game of percentages for big corporations and the bottom line will always dictate decisions of this sort.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. And if you were a woman
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 07:47 PM by rocknation
I would fight for your right not to have a "noisy complaining rug rat" disrupting your sleep just as hard! I'm sure there are women who like sleeping on planes, too, just as I'm sure there are men who wouldn't mind sitting next to an unaccompainied child in the least. Being male and an airline passenger isn't sufficient probable cause to be suspected of being a danger to children. The man behind all this is the father of 2-year old twins--no wonder he's taking it so personally.

The policy is unfair to women at best and criminal profiling at worst. If the airline is so sincere about playing it safe, they wouldn't burden the other passengers at all--they'd have the flight crew seat the child with or near them and take turns supervising. Oh, wait--would the MALE flight crew members be allowed to participate, or would they have to be transferred to work another flight?

:crazy:
rocknation
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #52
74. interesting point. but consider, if the policy is in place, and they neg-
lect to move the child away from a man, and something (god forbid) happens and is witnessed in the close confines of the plane, then they are severely culpable...

by simply defining a policy of this sort, the airline actually increases their own liability!

btw, brilliant observation about the all-male crew... that's about as complex a question as time travel! 8^)
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #52
110. It is unfair to women, thank you for saying that!
What if I don't want to sit next to a child? As a couple of posters said above, it's like being a "surrogate mommy." And it's an insult to men because it's implying that women are "safer." Utter bullshit. Kids shouldn't be alone on planes anyway.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
48. so, the world has officially gone mad!


....The 37-year-old shipping manager, who has 2-year-old twins, followed the incident up with the airline and was told Qantas wanted to err on the side of caution.

"I felt that it was totally discriminatory. Besides the point of what the hell was I going to do on a crowded flight."

The incident, which happened a year ago, irked Mr Worsley so much that he recently contacted National Party political correctness eradicator Wayne Mapp.

Dr Mapp told the Herald the airlines' policy was an example of political correctness that had got out of hand.
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lakemonster11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #48
75. I don't think it's "political correctness."
That seems like a weird term to use.

It seems like paranoia, maybe, or bigotry, but not "political correctness."
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
56. This is an insult to men. Most men are not sex offenders or unsafe
Edited on Mon Nov-28-05 08:24 PM by superconnected
for children. These airlines are making a statement that they are.

If we don't like the labeling and decency law crap(against gay marriages, against unwed mothers) coming from Bush,why would we like it coming from Quantas and other airlines?

Men sitting in seats next to children are not automatically sex offenders.
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ToolTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
57. Airliner cabins should be divided with chain link fence partitions.
Boys section, girls section, womens section, and mens section. But this is only a short term solution until individual fenced cages can be installed.

Never fly Qantas, a koala could be seated beside you!
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. rofl!
tks, tex!
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
103. LMBAO..
:rofl:
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michaelwb Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
107. Not enough
"Boys section, girls section, womens section, and mens section."

But what about sexual orientation. You don't want gay boys/men sitting next to each other or lesbian girls/women and clearly the bisexuals must sit in total isolation or there would be rampant mile high orgies. ;)
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
61. I would be terribly offended.
I don't mind sitting next to kids - usually the ones flying alone are old enough not to wail during the flight, and it's fun to talk to them about flying and how things work - what the different noises are during takeoff/landing, etc. But to have people assume I'm a child molester because I'm male - Jeez. That's pretty rough.
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. If it matters, I'm offended on your behalf...
...the first flight I ever took alone (about 8 years old) was back in the mid-to-late 70s or so...Eastern Airlines was still around. :-)

My little sister and I sat next to a wonderful gentleman who made sure the flight attendant took us up front for our tour of the cockpit and our special "wings." He also helped explain the mechanics of flying, the feel of the plane. In hindsight, I am betting he was also probably a saint for putting up with two little girls. He worked with the flight attendants and made it a memorable flight.

To the point of the matter: even back then, Mom set the rules before our flight - i.e., if someone makes you feel weird, go right away to an adult in charge (flight attendant). Since no one made me feel weird, I got to my destination (Grandma's) without incident, and it was a great experience of my young life. It made me very confident in handling pieces of life on my own. "I flew on a plane cross-country all by myself, I can certainly handle this."

I actually feel sorry for the kids of today. They do not get those stolen moments of being on their own anymore and the confidence that is born of that. :-(
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. Do you like gladiator movies Timmy?
Wouldn't it be a better world indeed if all our laws were based on the movie "Airplane?"
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. It'd be a hell of a lot funnier!
And stop calling me Shirley.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #69
88. 37 Rocky sequels? No, thanks. (nt)
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thanks! (nt)
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
67. I nearly sent my 11y.o. son on a flight alone this past week..
but when I told his grandma what I was planning, she flipped out and actually said "I'd *never* send one of my children on an airplane alone!!"... at which point I reminded her that indeed she had done just that to me when I was 12, I flew alone across the country!

She lightened up after that. But sheesh, everyone I mentioned it to seemed to suggest that I was an awful parent for even considering it!

My son *wanted* to do it, and was disappointed when our plans changed.
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Star Rover Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. Holy smoking Jesus Christ Allmighty!....
I'm mostly a lurker on this site (so much that my last password actually expired!), but now I can't resist the temptation any longer:

:wtf:

I thought I've encountered just about every level and grade of stupidity and good for nothing pc thinking (at least in terms of actually solving real problems), but this takes the prize - and bear in mind, dear fellow DUers, that I nowadays consider myself a cynic...

What's the next step??? Men in general not being allowed to answer questions or respond to strike up a conversation attempts from women and kids he don't know... (Wait! That has actually been tried - Afghanistan under the Talebans... :sarcasm: )

Every time I read something like this I get my feeling reinforced that this so called civilization is on it's terminal way downhill and deserves to go down for good... :mad: :spank: :grr:

End of rant, Star Rover
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. I don't think this is "PC" -- it's actually probably the opposite
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
100. Lotta kid diddlers in New Zealand?
That's what this policy says.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
102. Kids are bad enough, but worse are the drunks, in bunches.


One of the main reasons I will not fly any longer is that the airlines see booze as a profit center. The last time I flew commercial there were four or five party people sitting some rows behind me who the stew kept feeding liquor to. As the flight wore on they got louder. By the time we landed in Orlando they were souced and the passengers were on the verge of picking up pitchforks and torches and marching on Frankenstein's castle.

There is nothing that looks more rediculous than four or five drunk young males. And can anyone tell me why alcohol seems to be so much more effective in a cabin pressurized at 6000 feet (isn't that what the cabins are pressurized to?)
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
104. How is this "political correctness" run amock?
My understanding of the slander of political correctness is that people are upset cuz they can't call black folks niggers anymore. What does that have to do with men sitting next to children? If anythiong, the political correctness line would be that it is sexist to assume that women should be seated next to children, as if women have some inherent child-caring qualities that men don't. This seems, rather, like crazy John Walsh fear-mongering run amock, as if every man is a potential pedophile.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
111. Two words in response to this BS`
Debra LaFave

I'm sorry, but this is just sexist BS, assuming that a man is most likely a pedophile, while women aren't. Actually sexist in two ways, and correct in none.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
112. locking
discussion has ceased being productive
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