Bush Says Alien Worker Program Would Stop Illegal Immigration

[sabra]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=awcRMZ1.jG6E&refer=top_world_news

Bush Says Alien Worker Program Would Stop Illegal Immigration

Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. President George W. Bush said the creation of a new visa program to let aliens take jobs in the U.S. that Americans do not want is a necessary step in addressing the problem of illegal immigration.

``Together with Congress we are going to create a temporary worker program that is going to take pressure off the borders, bring workers out of the shadows,'' Bush told border patrol agents today at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona. ``People in this debate must recognize that we will not be able to effectively enforce our immigration laws until we create a temporary worker program.''

...

Bush's calls for a temporary worker program put him at odds with some in his party who believe the focus should only be on strengthening border security and increasing enforcement of current immigration laws.

[Richardo]

1. Just like pre-emptive wars stop terrorism!

Bank it! :eyes:

[saigon68]

44. His Ownership base "HAVE MORES"

Will love the low wages they can now pay.

Hey how about LOWERING the minimum wage. </sarcasm>

[Jacobin]

2. He thinks this is gonna re-float his boat?

:rofl:


:rofl:

[Botany]

3. So we will have UFOs landing with aliens?

[hogwyld]

4. Asshole!

Might as well kiss all those union wage jobs away! We'll all be competing with slave wages in a race to the bottom!

[leftstreet]

5. ...back across the border maybe

This program would essentially turn illegals into indentured servants.

[Drum]

6. I'd be much more stoked

if he ever mentioned jobs---non-combat, within our borders---for AMERICANS....

His program only advocates importing slaves and raising profit rates for bosses...same old same-old.

[Danieljay]

7. what Bush says is absolutely worthless to me, except perhaps.."I resign"

[Macman44]

8. An amnesty

by any other name is still amnesty.

[iconoclastNYC]

9. Presto-changeo.

Just pass a law giving "legal" status to people here illegally and you just ended the 'illegal immigration" problem. Wow. Bush is magic.

Unfortunately for Bush this sort of fractured logic only wins over the right wing when it is used to justify KILLING brown people.

[lovuian]

10. Bushit !!! Bushit !!!

thats all that comes out of this man's mouth!!!

[Cerridwen]

11. Legalize drugs and you'll end illegal drug use and we've one

less war; "war on drugs;" to fight. And think of all the "new" workers as they come out of the prisons. We won't need anyone from across any borders.

Okay, works for me.

:evilgrin:

[Ally McLesbian]

12. Not a solution at all

Well, this only creates a pool of slave labor for the corporations...

And there will CONTINUE to be sweetheart deals for pro-Republican ethnicities; they will continue to get immigration visas while hardworking average applicants will be stuck with AT MOST a guest worker visa.

Lastly, the Cuban free pass will continue - and if Sam Brownback has his way, will be extended to the Koreans.

Our immigration system will be more broken than ever.

[hollowdweller]

13. Amen. This proposal will just drain the social service budget further also

The whole idea of letting these people in is to undermine US wages and keep down unionization in the service industry.

[readmylips]

14. Simple, simple solution...

Give back all the states previously belonging to Mexico..let's see, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Florida, etc. And change all those stupid hispanic state names, streets, and everything hispanic, to English.

[Xithras]

16. In what world is that a solution?

And for the record, I'd gladly become an "insurgent" if that ever happened. I have no interest inbecoming a Mexican. By the way, the common belief that the US took the west from Mexico is a historical falsehood. In modern dollars, we paid Mexico $2.7 billion for it.

[EFerrari]

37. Wow. This must be the "new historicism"

:eyes:

[Xithras]

43. Nothing new about it.

The US paid Mexico $15,000,000 in 1848 for Alta California, the equivalent of about $2.7 billion modern dollars. In exchange for that $2.7 billion, the US got a couple hundred thousand acres of dry desert and barely passable mountain ranges. Another roughly $1.8 billion modern dollars was paid a short while later for the Gadsden Purchase.

Nothing "new" about it. I've never much cared for the allegation that the US "stole" Northern Mexico, because historically the Mexican government was in fact paid for the land they ceded. Using false facts to promote a point simply undermines the standing of the person making the claim.

The other reality is that practically no Mexicans actually lived there. The entire Mexican population in the regions of what we now consider the US was about 80,000, and practically all of them lived in the Rio Grande valley. A small handful of tiny settlements, with no more than 10,000 people in all of them combined, lived in the towns along the Mexican coast. Mexico had actually tried to settle the area for decades, but the Mexican people weren't interested in moving to the dry deserts of the north.

[EFerrari]

45. Saying Mexico "ceded" that land is like saying

the South "ceded" the Civil War.

Please.

[Xithras]

46. Ceded = surrendered.

The definition of "ceded" is to surrender possesion of something by treaty or legal agreement. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was approved by both the Mexican government and the US government, so ceded is the right word.

And yes, the South did cede the civil war. They ended their territorial claims by treaty (a surrender treaty).

Not that these word games really matter to the point at hand. The US and Mexico went to war. The causes of that war are still debated to this day, but it's clear that neither side was exactly innocent of wrongdoing. Both nations had large, modern armies, but Mexico lost. The US could have easily claimed most of Northern Mexico as war booty, but instead arranged to pay Mexico a large sum (for the time period) to compensate them for the territorial loss. It wasn't nearly as one sided as some people like to present it as.

[EFerrari]

47. It's funny that it never occurs to people that there are some

things you can't buy. If you invade my home and assault me, please don't expect me to appreciate the dollars you throw at me.

"¡Pobre México! Tan lejos de Dios, y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos."

"Poor Mexico! So far from God, and so close to the United States."

It's okay if you disagree with me. I'm perfectly satisfied to side with Emerson and Thoreau. :)

[EFerrari]

35. Good idea! It cracks me up to listen to people

complain about "illegal" immigration -- to stolen lands.

[ReaderSushi]

15. Yes...

and eliminating taxes for the top two percent will get rid of tax evasion.

[rodeodance]

17. Bush Vows Crackdown on Illegal Immigrants

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush;_ylt=AsabiD8ABK37YXgNtXoJ83Os0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Bush Vows Crackdown on Illegal Immigrants

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 49 minutes ago

TUCSON, Ariz. -
President Bush said Monday he wants to crack down on those who enter the country illegally but also give out more visas to foreigners with jobs, a dual plan he hopes will appease the social conservatives and business leaders who are his core supporters.


"The American people should not have to choose between a welcoming society and a lawful society," Bush said from the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base about an hour from the Mexican border. "We can have both at the same time."

The touchy issue of immigration has divided lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said he will bring up the issue early next year. The House hopes to tackle some border security measures before adjourning for the year, but little time remains and it has other issues on its plate.........

The president also promoted his plans to make tax cuts permanent, praised his Supreme Court picks — new Chief Justice John Roberts and associate justice nominee Samuel Alito — and pitched his immigration and border security proposals.......

[rodeodance]

18. protecting our borders is the mantra. I think he polls will raise

with this action.

[computerfreak77]

19. Will you do the work Mexicans do for $2 an hour?

No. Next.

[doc03]

20. Let the market determine wages if Americans won't work

for those wages then they are too low. That's just BS anyway how about the illegals that are working what were good paying construction jobs for substandard wages. If any Democrat or Republican was really serious about illegals all they need to do is make it a substantial fine for hiring them and the problem would be solved.

[Hekate]

25. Living wages & health plans would ensure every job was filled by Americans

That's Numero Uno, as the saying goes.

Wages that nobody can support a family on, dangerous working conditions, no unions -- all that does is ensure that the only people who will take such jobs are desperate. Desperate. And that's where illegal aliens come in. They are desperate.

If the Repubs have their way, unrestrained buccaneer capitalism in which American workers are competing with Third-World slave labor will reduce us to that level of desperation eventually, which is something I think our Paleo-conservative friend Lou Dobbs sees pretty clearly.

Numero Dos (sorry, I got started with slang Spanish and had to continue) is the cross-borders leadership wink-and-a-nod that I see no signs of stopping. Sure, Bush jumps up and down, but they all do. There's just too much money to be made by corporations and agribusiness using cheap, desperate, labor.

Twenty years ago I concluded that if the US really, truly, wanted to "solve" the problem they would first and foremost help Mexico eliminate their grinding poverty and unemployment -- in the villages. I don't see more than a dent in that -- people just keep pouring over the borders, risking death in the deserts...

Hekate

[hollowdweller]

28. wages for illegals do not reflect their cost to society.

A while back NOW Bill Moyers show did a special on the cost of these workers to hospitals, and boards of education and other social service agencies. They should have to be paid enough to actually support themselves.

[Hekate]

30. A study in my county 10 years ago showed that farmworkers...

...in the politically conservative North County sucked up an awful lot of the tax money from the more liberal, more urbanized, South County.

Agribusiness had decided to grow labor-intensive strawberries, and somehow -- can't imagine how -- the word got down to Mexico and points south that there were field jobs to be had. So these folks came, and more came, bringing with them their health needs and social services needs, and their kids, with educational needs, and goodness -- since they weren't being paid all that much -- somehow it was the more densely populated South County's tax money that paid for most of it.

Agribusiness, of course, felt no responsibility at all. Nor does, to this day. And individual conservatives just feel they can be snarky about liberal softies.

A faction in the North County would really like to break off and be a separate county where they wouldn't have to put up with us liberals. If it weren't for the fact that the proposed split would leave them with the lake on which we all depend for water, I'd say do it and good luck.

I don't begrudge my tax money going to help people out, but it pisses me off to see corporations make obscene amounts of money and not take responsibility for their workers, like paying them enough to live on and health care.

Hekate

[Hekate]

31. A study in my county 10 years ago showed that farmworkers...

...in the politically conservative North County sucked up an awful lot of the tax money from the more liberal, more urbanized, South County.

Agribusiness had decided to grow labor-intensive strawberries, and somehow -- can't imagine how -- the word got down to Mexico and points south that there were field jobs to be had. So these folks came, and more came, bringing with them their health needs and social services needs, and their kids, with educational needs, and goodness -- since they weren't being paid all that much -- somehow it was the more densely populated South County's tax money that paid for most of it.

Agribusiness, of course, felt no responsibility at all. Nor does, to this day. And individual conservatives just feel they can be snarky about liberal softies.

A faction in the North County would really like to break off and be a separate county where they wouldn't have to put up with us liberals. If it weren't for the fact that the proposed split would leave them with the lake on which we all depend for water, I'd say do it and good luck.

I don't begrudge my tax money going to help people out, but it pisses me off to see corporations make obscene amounts of money and not take responsibility for their workers, like paying them enough to live on and health care.

Hekate

[sendero]

33. There is NO FUNDING...

... to stop illegals from working, NONE. Here in Dallas, there are probably over a hundred thousand illegal workers if not more. They are everywhere, and they work hard for $5-$7 an hour. I can go to the corner of Royal Lane and ####### and pick up as many day laborers as I want - they are standing in the parking lot and everyone knows who they are and what they are.

Cheap labor Republicans are not about to do JACK SHIT about stopping illegals from working here - except as we now see - to make them legal.

[freestyle]

36. Exactly. The solution is decent wages, hours, and working conditions.

Make work worthwhile and Americans will do it. Also encourage and train Americans to do the work we are importing people, legally and illegally, to do. I work in construction, and the face of the industry is definitely changing. The tragedy is that these are good paying jobs with skills for life and our educational system has practically abandoned trades. The same thing is occuring with science and engineering. Rather than encouraging Americans, with money if needed, we expand visas to get the best people from other countries while neglecting these subjects in our schools. What happens when dwindling numbers of Americans know how to work with their hands or their heads?

This needs to be combined with steady enforcement and stiff penalties for employers who hire illegals, maybe several times the market value of whatever the illegal worker picks, processes, or produces. That Wal-Mart that was being built by illegals should result in a fine of several years of sales from that store. Make it hurt to employ illegal workers. Also, make it hurt to violate labor laws of any sort. Underpayment, forced overtime, unsafe housing, etc. should all carry hefty fines.

[Hekate]

56. An excellent post, freestyle. Thanks for making more of my points.

Hekate

[hogwyld]

49. You hit it out of the park!

If I got laid off from my present job, I would happily scrub toilets if a living wage was paid with health benefits. Much better than collecting unemployment. The main reason Americans won't take some jobs, is that they can't survive on those low wages!

[elsiesummers]

52. A business that can't stay profitable legally should go under.

Republicans really are anti-capitalist. If a business can't afford to pay the market wages of American workers, then it either needs to raise it's prices or go under.

This is just like some businesses which stay afloat because of tax evasion. They are breaking American laws in order to remain profitable.

A one time amnesty combined with a policy change including strict fines on Businesses using illegal workers and an increase in the quantity of legally allowed citizens would be a fair and just system.

The idea of alien guest workers who have no interest in becoming citizens and aren't even allowed to become citizens creates a permanent underculture.

[KayLaw]

58. Guess George doesn't believe in the market.

Gotta use the power of his Big Government to provide cheap labor for his base so they can put new meaning to obscene profits.

[Zenlitened]

50. Dumbest post I've seen in quite a while...

... for all the reasons outlined in the responses.

Next. :eyes:

[Canuckistanian]

21. "What the president failed to say..."

The Bushies don't want immigration reform. They want immigration enhancement.

And don't trust anything "The Pickler" has to say.

[necso]

22. Yeah, sure.

Driving them deeper into hiding is more like it. Out of sight, out of mind, for repugs.

The republicans will never do anything serious about the flood of illegal labor -- except to legalize it, try to further marginalize it, put on some show of doing something, etc.

Cheap labor is their currency, and labor over-supply their M1.

[Leilani]

23. And what is the Democratic plan?

I don't like Bush's plan, but along with a majority of Americans, I believe something must be done.

[madrchsod]

24. ? the democratic plan?...............

.....................who knows?

[leesa]

32. The democratic plan is to fine those corporations caught hiring illegals

like WalMart. To fine those undercutting living wages. THAT is a real plan. If they don't have jobs to come to, they won't be floodig across the border.

I suppose you will pretend you didn't hear that plan though because you won't like the idea of regulating business practices?

[Toots]

39. Democratic plan is stop the incentive

Make it a very severe penalty to be caught employing illegals. Very severe. If no one hires these people they will stop coming, at least is such large numbers..

[hogwyld]

48. So, if they don't have jobs

Does that mean they are eligible for General Assistance, welfare, food stamps, unemployment?

[shadowknows69]

26. He doesn't live anywhere near

A planet called reality does he?

[Moosepoop]

27. Not many people are buying it.

Lou Dobbs had a poll on this last night.

Poll question:

"Do you believe President Bush on Monday articulated a plan to secure our nation's borders and to deal substantively with the issue of illegal immigration?"

Poll results:

Yes -- 3% -- 207 votes
No -- 97% -- 7285 votes

Total ----- 7492 votes

[0007]

29. Why won't junior talk about raising the minimum wage so

Americans will do the jobs that the immigrants have for half the wage of the minimum wage law? Why are these immigrants allowed to work in this country when they're not even registered voters?

Bring back Cesar Chavez.....My God, why aren't our Democratic leaders talking about all the good this Cesar Chavez had done? Why isn't that fucking whore Lou Dobbs's talking about Cesar Chavez. And how to minimize the problem at our borders. Dobbs isn't even good at making up his phony polls. The Idaho boy has learned the way of organized crime and is porking all that listen's to his CNN program. I'd bet anything and everything 0' Lou would tell ya that Cesar Chavez is goddman commie.


Why isn't Lou Dobbs's talking about the National Farm Workers Association? That later was to become the United Farm Workers­ theUFW

We let junior get up and tell the American people, aliens take jobs in the U.S. that Americans do not want is a necessary step in addressing the problem of illegal immigration.
BULLSHIT

junior won't even go to the area of the farm workers. He has to go to a military installation, Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona. Why? Because he needs all the protection he can get from the likes of the Cesar Chavez's. They'd make a lettuce sandwich out of junior in a New York fucking minute.

Read This Link

We have an idiot president for a greedy rich American.

[Vinca]

34. The Bush plan must make Abraham Lincoln roll in his grave.

It's essentially making slavery legal again.

[Toots]

38. Bush* is emboldening the "enemy" or at least illegals, to wingers "enemies

Let's use his logic for a moment shall we? If speaking about troop withdrawal is aiding the enemy because it gives them the hope they can hold out then what about illegal aliens coming across the border right now. Bush* is saying they will be given jobs and acceptance but only the ones here in America when Bush* gets his law passed. After that the border will be closed. (Ha Ha Ha) If a person from below the border had ever given any thought to coming to the US now would be the time before this man is out of Office.

[0007]

41. Free medicine, housing, and all the perks.

[Loonman]

40. Delusional idiocy

Fucking Bush...

[catmandu57]

42. They're looking for a wedge issue

Something to divert attention, something to get peoples minds off how fucking incompetent these assholes are. Kkkarl is slipping if the best he can do is ilegal immigration, he may have his mind elsewhere right now.
Besides which we are busy creating our own indentured servant class, we export jobs, trap people with credit, trap people into low wage dead end jobs, withhold vital social services, after a while they'll be happy to work for two bucks an hour.

There was an episode of NOW recently focusing on the rebuilding of New Orleans and the use if ilegal's there. Union construction workers were fired and ilegal's used in their place for substantially less money.

[Megahurtz]

51. Yeah, Uh Huh.

Like they're all going to trust him enough
to stand up and wave their arms and say "Here I am!" :eyes:

[Robert Oak]

53. guest worker VISAs

are terrible and will create a permanent slave or sub caste system
plus lower wages and labor rights for all Americans.

I love how they are using the VISA system to give even more control of an employee by a corporation....

you complain forget just being fired, now they can just deport you!

[Ron Mexico]

54. Who's stupid enough to believe this shit?

Not even Repugs are buying it. Listen to this: "He was careful to have much tough rhetoric in his speech, promising "to promptly return every illegal entrant we catch at the border with no exceptions."

What exactly do we do now, give them a new suit and a $20 bill? Further, what percentage of illegal entrants do you think we catch? This isn't saying anything at all. Then he essentially claims that we can't do anything about security until he gets his precious guest worker program, which is little more than licensed indentured servitude for his corporate buddies.

Every day I thank whatever deity there is that I'm not a Repug. Having a president I voted for insult my intelligence like this would irreparably damage what's left of both my sanity and my enthusiasm for living here. The lion's share of Repugs I know are festering assholes, but on this issue they also seem to be more concerned about security than they are about profiting off of sweatshop-level wages as overhead.

[kineneb]

55. what a hosehead

like his program will get the Central Valley/San Joaquin Valley growers to hire US citizens at decent wages? Idiot.

[computerfreak77]

57. "A Day Without a Mexican"

[Supersedeas]

59. Either legalize cheap cheap labor or he'll open the flood gates?

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. This arrogant prick just hops from one bad policy to another,

doesn't he? George Bush hates Americans, the greater majority of us that is.