'Whites Only' Barber

[brooklynite]

While America remembers Rosa Parks, some in North Lafayette are being reminded of Jim Crow. A whites only barbershop owner says it's not what you think. Or is it?

Barber Herb Leger says, "I tell them you want a haircut, go across the street. They can give you a professional haircut, but I can't." Most people are shocked when they see whites only on Leger's barber sign. Like Victoria Cenales who stopped by to ask Leger why doesn't he accept black customers.

Leger told her, "It's not that I don't want black people in the shop. It's just that I'm not qualified to give them professional service." Cenales told him, "People will misunderstand that sign. That was back in the 60s."

http://katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4028122

[liberalnurse]

1. That problem could easily be remedied

by hiring someone who is professional with hair-styles of the African American. O8)

[JAbuchan08]

2. or bothering to learn how to cut african american hair

n/t

[JAbuchan08]

9. oh and check out this quote

"People, especially your black people are not very broadminded,"
:puke:

He's not racist though, believe him when he says that :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Hell, some of his best friends are black

;-)

[Richard Steele]

46. I guess I'm not very broadminded, either...

Since I've already jumped to the conclusion
that this guy is a lying racist asshole.

How very small of me.:eyes:

[Arkana]

65. "I'm not racist. I just don't like black people."

I've heard that argument more than once--and I live in New England.

People seem to think that saying they're not racist seems to make it so.

[fishwax]

84. wtf

:puke:
:wtf:

nice how they buried that quote at the bottom of the story ...

[Ellen Forradalom]

63. Or by writing a clearer sign

"As I am Unskilled in the Art of the African-American Hairstyle, I Will Happily Refer You to an Appropriate Professional."

[Hobarticus]

3. Then re-write the sign, shitkicker, if that's an honest reason...

Or else tell your customers face-to-face that you're not qualified to serve them.

Posting "Whites Only" is inflammatory, and he knows it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Sign should read: I'm not competent at African American Hair-styling

gudunk.

[mongo]

32. Once again going to the crux of the biscuit.

His sign is offensive - and he may be a racist.

But at least he knows his limitations.

[MADem]

57. What will he do with a nappy headed caucasian customer??

These guys ought to turn up at his shop, looking for a trim!

[Jed Dilligan]

58. what a rogues' gallery...

I do doubt if any of these guys come in asking for a fade or dunky ropes.

[Debau2005]

4. Posts from yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5151207

[Karenina]

61. Actually that post was from MONDAY.

This OP is NOT LBN. I expected it to be locked when I came upon it earlier today. WHATEVER. :shrug:

Seems the guy wanted some publicity and got it. Getting much more here! How about them Nazi twins, eh?

[Debau2005]

77. Sorry

All my days run together.

[mike_c]

5. what, the guy can't learn how to do it...?

Sheesh.

[Missy M]

6. I think it's time for this barber to retire. To me the sign says it all..

even though he claims it isn't what everyone thinks, that's BS.

[purduejake]

7. Isn't he LICENSED by the state?

I'd think you'd have to be trained in cutting all kinds of hair.

[dogfacedboy]

78. I'm sure this guy got his first license a long time ago.

The license probably just keeps renewing. I doubt if every barber/stylist is required to know every haircut.

At any rate, this guy is still a f@c#ing racist, even though he doesn't believe he is.

[underpants]

8. I'm not buying it

I could be very wrong but from what I have seen .....whoo boy here goes.....there isn't a whole lot to cutting black guys hair. I watched many a haircut while I was in the Army both in the barbershop and out in the hallway and there really isn't much to it.

Okay there I said it. If this guy doesn't want to cut black's hair he should just tell them that and it is his right not to it is his shop. It doesn't make it correct but it is his right.

[shrike]

18. I've been told otherwise

From a black gentleman who moved into a lily-white New England town. He had to drive an hour to get his haircut, he said, because no one knew how to do it properly.

[booksenkatz]

44. My 6-year-old is a curly-haired white boy

and some people just don't know how to cut curly hair, period. I finally found a lady who does a fabulous job on him, now she's moving and I'm going to be up a creek again. My husband also has curly hair, and we always joke about how it's similar to trimming a bush, and some people can't garden for shit!

But the barber in the OP is a racist, period. He could learn how to do it, but if he sincerely lacks the ability, then he should hire someone who CAN do it and stop being such a damned racist about the issue.

[shrike]

50. As I said in a later post

I think he has a severe case of the stupids. I think he really thought he could put the sign in the window -- save him time for having to explain it to people -- and no one could care.

If he's a small operation, it's possible he can't afford to hire someone who can cut black/curly hair. My sister has the same problem as your son; only one guy in town knew how to cut it. But if local businesses are making enough money from cutting "conventional" hair, they're not going to bother hiring someone with that special skill. Why should they? They don't need it for their bottom line, maybe the market is not big enough, and in the business world, bottom line dictates everything.

They, however, do not have a case of the stupids. Ergo, they do not put "whites only" signs in their windows. Even if they're racists at heart, they don't advertise it.

I doubt that this guy will last long. The free market is pretty nasty to stupid people, unless your last name happens to be Bush.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

54. Most of the African-Ameircan guys I know own their own clippers

And they cut each other's hair. I'm from a lower-income area, so that could be in part to save money, but I know part of it is because our area barbers were white and didn't know how to cut African-Americans' hair. That's what I've been told.

But the "broadminded" part is just a LITTLE suspicious.

[swimmernsecretsea]

10. Okaaaaaaaaay...

Thanks for taking after our politicians, Herb Leger. It warms my heart to think that you're so enamored of the way that things are done in the executive branch of our government that you'll provide a semi-apologetic tone to a cover a less pleasant action on your part.

[toopers]

11. This actually happened to me in North Carolina . . .

except the roles were reversed. There was a little barber shop around the corner from my apartment that catered to black clients. None of the barbers had actually cut a white persons hair. While they didn't have a sign refusing service, when I went in they said they were not comfortable cutting my hair because they had never done it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. But that's the proper way to do it

This guy can't possibly be so dense as to be ignorant of the connotations of WHITES ONLY.

That's inflammatory and he goddamn well knows it. Now, if an African American walked into his shop (and really, what's the likelihood of that anyway???) and asked for a haircut, he could very politiely tell them that he probably wasn't qualified to give him or her a good cut. That's how it should be done. The sign is a slap in the face, and his reasoning for it is at best ignorant, at worst outright racism.

[toopers]

19. I disagree . . .

Intent makes it inflammatory.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Bullshit

Intent has nothing to do with it.

"Whites Only" has cultural and historical baggage that no "good" intent (and that's dubious here) can escape. You don't get to choose your way out of history, as if Jim Crow can be wiped away by fiat.

[toopers]

23. I'm not talking about changing history.

I am talking about intent. You cannot separate intent from the action.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Of course you can

The action here is provocative and racist regardless of intent, precisely because we live in a society with a history. You don't get to put up "Whites Only" and not "mean anything by it" and therefore escape its social effects and history, preciseley because meaning is NOT tied to individual subjective intention, but distributed and adjudicated socially. The effects are what is important, and the way those effects are determined by a whole social ecology.

If I say "Hey, whassup, nigger" to a black friend, and he gets fucking pissed off, it doesn't matter if I was just joking. I was playing out a history of racism, and he has every right to be pissed off. I don't get to choose out of that history, or the way it determines meanings. I'm not the ultimate arbiter of my own language, precisely because my own language is never wholly MINE.

(Or, to quote Nietzsche, "There is no being behind doing, effecting, becoming. The doer is merely a fiction added to the deed - the deed is everything.")

[toopers]

26. Many things could be interpreted as racist.

The sign means two different things. Just like if I say, "she's a bitch!" Intent is key.

Based on your application, if a white guy beats the hell out of a black guy it is automatically a racist act based upon the fact that white people use to beat their black slaves, or that white people use to beat up blacks just because they were black. Sorry, that's not the way it works. The intent of the action defines action.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Not at all

"Based on your application, if a white guy beats the hell out of a black guy it is automatically a racist act based upon the fact that white people use to beat their black slaves, or that white people use to beat up blacks just because they were black."

Nope. I concentrate on the deed, the action. In this case, the deed would only be beating. Now, many people might interpret it as racism, but that would have no bearing on the legal decision unless that intention was what was being proved.

Besides, legal determinations are different in kind from symbolic determinations. The fact is that the barber doesn't get to pick and choose the meaning of "Whites Only." It has a meaning that circulates in our culture regardless of his intention. This is completely different than determining the culpability of a defendant in a legal case, where we have a limited sphere of decision-making and concrete rules for determining intention.

[toopers]

34. Just about everything is open to interpretation . . .

and my example was not necessarily an issue of law, though if any arrests were made that would certainly become an issue. If you walked up on the situation in a back alley based on the way you think you would immediately attack the white guy because you would interpret the beating as racist situation -- no legal issues yet since "the law" has not been introduced into this situation. You have to be consistent in your application of logic, which you are not.

[Karenina]

59. However...

the "racist apologist" content of your posts is quite consistent.
Wir wissen bescheid. Danke.

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. Nonsense

Consistency in logic doesn't bar making distinctions. In fact, it requires such distinctions.

The meaning of two people fighting, regardless of race, is relatively undetermined by any historical markers, whereas the meaning of "WHITES ONLY" is relatively overdetermined by the history of the phrase. You pretend not to understand this, though it is easily demonstrable with a simple thought experiment. If you took ten people and had them stumble upon a white man beating a black man in a back alley, and you asked them their initial association, these would vary considerably. Now consider if the white man was a skinhead with a swatika tattoo. Now consider if the white man was 4'6" and the black man 6'7". The event isn't tied as strongly to historical and social markers that help us make sense of things. Show the same ten people the WHITES ONLY sign and ask for their associations. These would be - I suspect - more uniform based on the way that phrase circulates in our culture. It is true that both events are open to interpretation, but interpretation - in practice - never operates just as we please. To paraphrase Marx, the traditions of the dead generations weigh like a nightmare on the minds of the living.

[toopers]

80. Exactly because of what you say . . .

"interpretation - in practice - never operates just as we please", we should understand before we accuse.

[alcibiades_mystery]

83. Huh?

You losing the thread?

[Chiyo-chichi]

12. anybody read the whole article?

Leger understands the sign could send a mixed message. "In today's life, I can see. People, especially your black people are not very broadminded," he says.

:wow:

Nah.... not a racist at all.

[Lavender Brown]

22. He sure is broadminded

:eyes: :banghead:

[Centered]

40. wonder if he meant to say young black people?

does he have an accent? I don't know this guy from adam but without video of his comment I can't rush to judge. I would like to see his body language and expression, espically if he is older I've known some old timers to use the "N" word (which I despise) and used it as non-chalantly as saying black, I wouldn't say they were racists but that depends on your view of if a word offends or if the meaning offends. After explaining my position I never heard it again from them.

[fishwax]

85. He said black people especially were not very broadminded

what kind of expression or body language could redeem that statement?

[Centered]

86. because I want to know

if his is and idiot or if he is a racist idiot. He could have been misquoted.

Like I said, I don't know him so I can't rush to say he is a racist. A moron yes... but racist is a powerful word and I wont use it lightly.

I'm not defending his stupidity I just want to know more before I condemn him. Either way I am glad that we as a culture have progressed enough that something like this is on the news.

[Tight_rope]

13. Well...I know brothas wouldn't want their fays messed up...but

The sign is still offensive. Like someone in the another post stated, simple hire someone training to cut African American hair. Hell it's just more profits for him.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Fades

That's the other point. Was he really getting a bunch of black customers asking for haircuts, so many that he had to put up a sign? I fucking well and truly doubt THAT.

As popular culture has relentlessly taught us for years, the African American barber shop isn't some "stop in and get a trim" operation, but rather a center of cultural life in African American communities.

[ozarkvet]

49. You assume we would ever go there

Which we would not.

[Midnight Rambler]

17. So we're to assume that he's not qualified to cut Latino hair either?

What about Asian hair? Or Arab hair?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

53. Or how about a sign that says

"I just can't cut hair of the kids today, with their rap music and their baggy pants and their stickers and their Ataris and their Trapper Keepers..."

[kurth]

25. Great business move

Who wants to be seen in that shop now?

[Pepper32]

48. Good point.

[PennyK]

27. I'm not Black, but...

...I have extremely kinky curly hair. Believe me, white stylists have no idea how to cut it! However, this is still disgusting.

[Bridget Burke]

35. How do you think Kinky Friedman got his name?

Perhaps the barber ought to add "No Jews, either" to his sign.

[Sequoia]

28. This happened to a gal I met.

She went into this beauty salon and was told they couldn't do Black hair. Now, the thing is she had very fair skin and her hair was curly like if you had a perm. I would've never known had she not told me her father was Black.

[damntexdem]

29. People won't misunderstand that sign unless ...

he only cuts the white hair of old people.

[AspenRose]

31. I don't think he's going to be open too much longer

"Since he only opened two months ago, he used it (the sign) to establish the kind of services he offers."

One of these days people are going to learn that racism is NOT good business sense.

Dillard's has YET to learn the lesson....

[shrike]

33. I think this guy has a case of the stupids

more so than racism.

I can just see him saying to himself, "Hmmm, if I just puta 'whites only' sign in the window, it'll save a step for me; I won't have to explain the fact that I can't cut black hair, and therefore won't take any time away from the cutting I do do. No one'll mind ..."

Somebody that stupid will NEVER stay in business.

[Ian David]

36. Republicans LOVE Black People's hair!

[fasttense]

37. He's an idiot

I have very curly hair. And it's true some people are very bad at cutting it, but it's due to poor skills and lack of expertise. I wouldn't recommend them for people with straight hair either. I'm white. My younger brother's hair is just as curly. He's white. So not only can't he cut African American hair, he probably can't cut very curly white hair. If he is so incompetent, he shouldn't be cutting any hair. Customers who still go to him better watch out what they end up looking like.

[LincolnMcGrath]

38. Racist; PERIOD

"In today's life, I can see. People, especially your black people are not very broadminded"


It is as week as the "Its Heritage not Hate" defense of the Dixie Flag.

[SlipperySlope]

39. I wonder if he does animal grooming?

Using his logic, if he doesn't do animal grooming, maybe he should put up a sign that says "No blacks or dogs".

:sarcasm:

[slampoet]

42. He should change the sign to something multi-cultural

Something like....

"Be you White, Black, Yellow, Blue, or Green... If you've got a 'Fro down the street is the place to go."


OR

"Black customers no problem, but Afros are"


...I recall a few small town places that have even said "Our Afro-Centric Barber will be happy to cut your hair when he is in on tuesdays. Schedule an appointment today!"


Afro is a hairstyle and good shorthand for kinky hair. Black is a color and race. Not a good shorthand for hair.


Either that or he could hire a part-time barber and decide to be in business to make money instead of being rude.

[RethugAssKicker]

41. I can't believe theres any discussion here...

The MF is a RACIST F***ING PIG... NO DEBATE...

IF YOU DEBATE THIS,

you are too... or just plain stupid!

[Javaman]

43. This reminds me of a personal story regarding bigotry...

I'm bald, have been so since I was five. A genetic thing.

anyway, I was interviewing for a job years ago and the guy had the nerve to tell me that I had to wear a hat around the office. I asked why? He said that some people there might get the wrong impression.

I was completely perplexed. I asked what impression is that?

That I was a skin head.

With mouth agape, I continued slowly, who are these some people and it's genetic. He waved it off and just said that I wouldn't get the job unless I wore a hat.

So here you have a bigot that didn't have the guts to fess up to the fact that HE didn't like that I was bald and tried to blame it on "other people". Cowardly, stupid, insensitive and down right bigoted.

ending to the story: I came in the next day sans the hat. he asked where it was, I replied, I'll have to see if the ACLU still has it.

He shut up and left.

this barber is a racist, period. He can cloak his bullshit all he wants but the reality is: he's just an ignorant jackass who is terrified of African-Americans.

[Inland]

45. Jew and catholic hair also too difficult to cut. nt

[ozarkvet]

47. I never got my hair cut by whites except in the Army

And there I shaved it all off.

Because whites suck at cutting black people's hair --- I believe they are trained in school, but it is a skill that comes with repitition. And blacks don't (often) go to white shops --- SuperCuts or something where they use the right kind of electric shaver being the exception.

If you do in wrong (even the shaving part), the customer gets in-grown hairs that look like nasty zits, hurt, and that have to be lanced. (Most blacks' hair is thicker and corser than white hair.)

My wife (who spends A LOT of money on various Capital "P" Products) is sure not going to risk it.

That said, every black knows this already, and no black would ever go to this guy's shop.

He obviously chose this method because he is a bigot.

[shrike]

51. Or stupid

There are plenty of bigot barbers out there. They just don't advertise it in their windows. Bad publicity.

I never knew that black people required barbers who knew what they were doing (I grew up in an all-white town) until I moved to New England and met a black gentleman who'd come to town when it was lily white.

He told me he had to drive an hour to get his hair cut. The local people had not a clue how to do it.

[ozarkvet]

56. Lack of black barbers

Is a recurring issue.

It is why so many black men opt for the cue-ball look, BTW, as that can be done at home.

My wife (in El Paso) has to drive some ways (we live on the "West Side") to go to a particular salon near Ft. Bliss (East Side) where they know what they are doing.

She says I am out of the Army and don't have to have a cue-ball hair cut. I tell her the salon is in a bad part of town, and I don't want to be seen there.

[shrike]

60. I'll be damned

I didn't know that.

The fellow I knew in New England was too isolated from an African-American community to find a decent barber, or so I thought. Didn't know it was so widespread.

To me, this gentleman's story was rather poignant, since it showed the struggles he faced as a stranger in a strange land. But he persevered. Took tremendous guts, I think.

[AspenRose]

64. Ironically I have found someone in New Hampshire to do my hair

She's Asian and does a fantastic job. So when I go to my in-laws I make an appointment with her or one of her biracial beauticians (I'm biracial).

But I can't find anyone in (liberal, multicultural) Santa Fe to do my hair. I usually have to go to Albuquerque. Or I do it myself.

Edit: I think it's funny I've found both asians and hispanics (in TX) to do my hair, but can't find white people. I don't know if it's because they're afraid to learn or just don't want to learn. Clearly learning how wasn't an impediment for the two stylists I just mentioned. Maybe they have better business sense. They corner the market on doing black hair in an area where there aren't many black (hair) stylists to be found (of any race).

[ozarkvet]

67. Not surprised, really

I have never been to Sante Fe, but I have a wild guess: not a lot of black people. Lots of rich white folk and middle class hispanics.

Hence, no good black barbers. Why?

Simple economics, really. I mean, if you were a barber who learned to cut black people's hair, where would you go? Where there are no blacks?

No, you'd look at a map and census figures and figure out where there are a lot of blacks and put your shop smack in the middle of the zip code.

Hell, the bank lending the money (and demanding a business plan)would want to see the racial makeup of the neighborhood before you got a penny.

Go get a census of NM, sort by racial makeup, and you've got yourself a hair salon. I will bet money.

[shrike]

81. You're right

Sometimes it is just economics.

[anitar1]

71. One of my brothers had kinky , blond hair. He did

not have a good haircut until he was grown and moved to Calif.Then my son inherited the gene. He ended up with an Afro--looked good. Now, my 21 yr old grandson has the hair. He goes to an Asian woman who does a great haircut for him. Curiously, both my son and older brother lost most of their hair by age 40.

[shrike]

82. My sister had hair like brillo

Have no idea where it came from. Her hair calmed down considerably as she aged, but when she was a teenager it was like wire. She had to go to the men's barbershop, so Jack the barber could cut her hair. Only man in town who knew how to do it. No one at the women's salons knew how to do it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. Of course

This guy pretends that he was flooded with potential black patrons that he had to turn away. It's laughable. Thanks for the post.

[tatertop]

55. Classic bigotry

[nini]

62. Does he refuse to cut a White guy's curly hair?

I know some white folks with very curly hair that would present similar issues as the average black hair. A white guy I know got 'best afro' in his high school class back in '76. LOL He had a perfect Angela Davis fro. :D

I betcha he'd be able to figure out how to cut that guys' hair though.

[LostinVA]

73. You're correct -- most people can't cut curly hair right, period.

Everyone in my family has curly hair, and it has literally been impossible for us to get a decent cut, no matter what we pay. So, half of us straighten our hair with expensive liquids and unguents and electrical appliances (which is all for naught on humid or rainy days), and the other half just forget about it and look like Jennifer Beals.

So, I feel for African-Americans who can't get a decent cut. It sucks.

This barber? Bigot. And GLOATING because he has that sign up...

[Aimah]

68. He's ignorant..

but some of it's based in reason. Some white barbers have problems doing "black" hair and some black barbers have problems doing "white" hair. But there are black people who have straight hair and white people who have very curly hair. The intelligent thing to do would be to take down the sign and talk to the black customers when they come in. Find out what they want done to their hair. If the guy wants it totally bald I'm sure he can do that. If the guy wants a bald fade then he should let him know he can't do that and where to go to get it.

[IronLionZion]

69. Have any of you seen a black person recently?

I agree that "Whites Only" is ignorant, racist, and asking for a beat-down.

But surely the white liberals posting here have seen a black person at least on TV? A black person's hair is completely different and they like to have different hairstyles. Your average barber is NOT trained on how to deal with that.

His sign should say he's not trained to cut "African-American hair" or "very curly hair" but there is a barber who is trained right across the street. His sign is clearly asking for an unholy ass-whoopin, but you have to admit their hair is different.



Black people should not be forced to straigten out their hair to accommodate the white barbers. They ought to be proud of their hair and keep it the way they want. That's why there is a thriving industry of black barbershops in this country and non-black barbers who are trained to style it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. Is anyone here disputing that the hair is different?

I don't think so.

Thanks for stating the obvious, in any case.

[IronLionZion]

74. It's not obvious to everyone, the first thought is always racism

I'm a brown person and my hair is also different from white people's but it's not obvious. My hair is thicker and often gets caught in the clippers. The clippers made for black people's hair works nicely with mine and corporate places like Supercuts use them. Not all local places are capable of cutting my thick black Indian hair.

Does anyone here dispute that "Whites Only" is racist and inflammatory and innappropriate?

I don't think so.

Thank YOU, albicades_mystery for stating the obvious. :sarcasm:

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. Cheers, baby

:*

[ECH1969]

70. Talk about racist

[Mend]

76. A Black woman cuts my caucasian hair and she is fabulous....

fuck this shit...it is racism pure and simple

[KenCarson]

79. as a caucasian with beige skin, i think he should be more specific

since i'm sure he'd cut my hair

how about

"straight hair only"

that would avoid all them homos who need haircuts anyway

yeah, that was sarcastic