Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Cheney 'cabal' hijacked foreign policy..(Powell's former chief of staff)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:16 PM
Original message
Cheney 'cabal' hijacked foreign policy..(Powell's former chief of staff)
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 08:18 PM by RedEarth
Cheney 'cabal' hijacked foreign policy
By Edward Alden in Washington
Published: October 20 2005 00:00 | Last updated: October 20 2005 00:19

Vice-President Dick Cheney and a handful of others had hijacked the government's foreign policy apparatus, deciding in secret to carry out policies that had left the US weaker and more isolated in the world, the top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell claimed on Wednesday.


In a scathing attack on the record of President George W. Bush, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Mr Powell until last January, said: What I saw was a cabal between the vice-president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made.

Now it is paying the consequences of making those decisions in secret, but far more telling to me is America is paying the consequences. Mr Wilkerson said such secret decision-making was responsible for mistakes such as the long refusal to engage with North Korea or to back European efforts on Iran.

It also resulted in bitter battles in the administration among those excluded from the decisions. If you're not prepared to stop the feuding elements in the bureaucracy as they carry out your decisions, you are courting disaster. And I would say that we have courted disaster in Iraq, in North Korea, in Iran.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Men are now ready to devour men
and I am by no means angry but said men behaved like boys before the war. The question is why.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes they're eating their own
:evilgrin: :woohoo: :applause: :popcorn:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
87. Yes...Blood all over the place and the axe hasn't even fallen yet!
:wow: :applause: :bounce: :woohoo: :popcorn:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
98. nicely put nt
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. The question is why? And the way to the answer is the same it's
always been: Follow the money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. that is correct, sir!
ALWAYS follow the money!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. Call me naive.....
I really want to believe that there are some good people in government who for whatever reason (perhaps simply because now is an opportune time because the public/MSM is finally awake and ready to accept the truth) are stepping up to do the right thing.

After reading about our incursions into Syria, all I want to do is curl up into a ball in a corner and :cry: It's all coming too late.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #50
58. Be prepared for very dirty defensive tactics. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #50
73. The few (very few) good people in govt
are not enough to continue on our current path. We need some major changes if we are to survive much longer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #73
123. I also advise: be prepared to fend off attacks at this time
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 04:50 PM by EuroObserver
not only defensive on the part of this gang - but also potential opportunistic but genuine (maybe even, on the basis of history, quite morally justifiable) threats from the real, but generally still ill-informed world.

The Truth is what sets us free, indeed. Work too. And imagination.

Salud!

Interesting times!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
51. duplicate
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 10:52 PM by verdalaven
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
88. Greed
Cheney had an asbestos problem at Halliburton, didn't he? He could have cashed out (and I think he did sell his stock) but he had to go back to the table one more time. And Rumsfeld facilitated it.

Dick Cheney is the incarnation of Avarice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #88
99. YES
I believe Dresser Industries, which was in economic trouble, merged with Halliburton--but why merge unless you know you can enact policies keeping the asbestos claims at bay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #99
134. See this article.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6450422

Incredible summary of Cheney's "career." I can't believe I hadn't seen it until it was forwarded to me today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #88
126. Mostly options as part of his CEO contract.
" He arranged the purchase of Dresser and the asbestos liability that came with it. He was also CEO while Anderson implemented aggressive accounting, and Dick subsequently made $18M in stock options. "

From my collection of Halliburton links.

Visit my Corporate page for more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. this just gets better and better-- kicked and recommended....
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
62. It does get better, but the better it gets the worse I feel
for our country. I'm ecstatic these bastards are going to finally get their due, but it tears me apart to think of all the people they have killed during their reign of death. Dick Cheney's richer and a whole lot of people are deader. Our innocense is dead. We thought we lost it after Kennedy was assassinated. That was nothing compared to the raping and pillaging these neo-cons have been doing to our country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nothing like turning GHWB into an icon...
... in the same way the right wing idolized Reagan....

How quickly everyone forgets how strenuously GHWB defended his son, campaigned for him, attacked others for questioning Dubya's judgment.

Partisan hacks, Wikerson included.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Remember November 2000
Didn't they do all that 'hard werk' in Florida for 'W'? He cannot escape either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. True
I remember Bush 1 being very supportive of his son. He became very angry at his critics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did they find their balls in a meatlocker somewhere?
They were damned silent when it was going down. Except I KNEW.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here we go ...

This is developing on an exponential scale.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cheney cabal=PNAC/neocon agenda
That's it in a nutshell. Please, CIA, get our country back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Wow. I never expected to see the day when the CIA would be the
ones in the white hats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Aspens turn in clusters.
Yes, I've had a feeling all along that Colin wants them all to go down. I think that's the only reason he hasn't written that book. I'm waiting for that book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That may be true but
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 08:36 PM by malaise
he was part of the cluster. Further do not forget that 'W' refused Rummy's offer of resignation after the first torture scandal. They're all in this together.

Edit -space
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Not saying he didn't go along
But I don't think he ever expected to have to shill for a dirty war and sully his reputation. His son, he's a turd, but I never got a woogie feeling about Colin until he had to sell that piece of fiction to the UN.

I think he's pissed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Yep he was very upset about that
but time finally caught up with him. Read Belafonte on Colin. Harry let him have it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I will, thanks. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:54 PM
Original message
Here's the link
That was one great Larry King programme.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/14_belafonte.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks, again! Cheers! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Powell
should have resigned. I lost respect for him as he continued to publicly support policies he knew were wrong. I think there should be a time when one stops being the loyal soldier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Yes. I agree with that.
He definitely went down the slippery slope, but fast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
63. He's no Cyrus Vance
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
82. Maybe Powell was afraid that Bushco would take him out...
"permanently", I mean. I'm sure all of us know now what they are capable of and I have no doubt that they would have killed Powell to silence him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #82
102. On Powell........
He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."

Excuse me? :wtf: What comes first, being a good, mindless soldier that follows every order or being an American and doing what's best for our country? This "good soldier" mindset bugs the shit out of me. You can be a "good soldier" and still maintain your own integrity and judgment in a situation that you KNOW is wrong. Being a "good soldier" does not mean checking your brain at the door and mindlessly following every dictate of your CIC no matter how heinous.

Powell let down his country and the Americans he took an oath to defend. He backed bush on every half-assed, stupid notion that came down the pike forgetting who he REALLY worked for.

Powell is as much pond-scum as the rest in my book. I could give a crap if he was a "good soldier" or not. He abandoned his country and it's belief system in favor for what largess the bushies offered him. Fuck him! :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #102
111. A loyal soldier who fails to use his moral compass
mine as well be a Nazi storm trooper.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #102
127. Colin "My Lai" Powell: a two time war criminal. Fuck him; he's complicit
he lied at the UN and continues his uncle Tom ways. Good soldier, my ass! War criminal!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #127
137. Exactly my view: Powell belongs on trial along with Bush, Cheney, et al.
No cabal forced Powell into his lies at the UN, or kept him from resigning in the face of world-historical corruption. As you note, it's a pattern established since his Vietnam days.

Let us have no pity for Powell. He's as loathsome as the walking excrement pile Cheney.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
114. Yes when he didn't resign he gave his approval for all the lies and that
is when I lost respect for him as well. One can only hope that his conscience won't allow him to continue with the lies and the cloak of secrecy will be lifted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
129. Loyal to WHAT is the question - he was supposed to uphold the
Constitution. He played politics with the criminals instead. And he KNEW what he was doing when he did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Well, I have always despised Powell,
ever since he arranged to cover up the My Lai massacre.

Michael Powell learned his opportunistic careerist values at his Daddy's knee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. I'm not saying he's a great guy,
I'm saying I think he finally woke up (waaay too late).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Or maybe its that Powell wants a chance at being President?
Or atleast hoping history will be kind to him?

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I think he wants to run far and wide from politics.
At least I would, if I were him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. His son played a pivotal role in the media block-out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. He's doomed to eternal damnation
for being a party to the insanity, don't you worry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. That's Right!
Thanks for that reminder. Shew. The pile of scandalous crap is so high, one forgets all the corruptions committed.

Think about it. The pile is HUmongous high.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
74. I think he was promised that he would get his chance...
to be President; if he just played along.

One word: Sucker.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #74
131. I don't think Powell wanted to be President. I think he was trying to play
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 10:17 PM by Nothing Without Hope
politics in such a way that he thought he would have SOME voice in the decisions that were being made, rather than being cut out of the loop altogether. A dirty plan in every way, and he wasn't nearly as smart as he thought he was. And when he realized the truth, HE DID NOT TELL IT but continued to slop along in the mire.

He is GUILTY, and he knew what he was doing every step of the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
93. The only reason Rummy offered to resign was to make * look
like the wise leader who could forgive him, bless him and send him back to sin no more. It was an insincere mea culpa that was meant to break the chain of blame before it reached the (p)resident's desk. They were just covering each other's asses.

It is nice to hear someone in the thick of it identifying it as a cabal. We have known it all along.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elfin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. A little late don't you think?
Would that this had been said much earlier! The "loyal soldier" Powell has disgraced his possible place in history and it his left to his subordiates to speak the truth. Will MSM pay ANY attentiob???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. powell "hates" cheney
during gw1 cheney was always trying to "call the plays" to powell which really pissed him off. cheney was trying to run the battlefield and powell and others had to politely ignore him. they used limpballs to discredit powell when he wanted to run for president..i remember listening to limpball calling him the "little general" this is the main reason that powells wife told him he wasn`t going to run. they were pissed at powells idea of having to wait for the un vote then when powell found out he`d been set and said so, he was then a traitor and was "fired"...."the night of the long knives".....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. "he (Powell) is the world's most loyal soldier."
Mr Wilkerson said his decision to go public had led to a personal falling out with Mr Powell, whom he served for 16 years at the Pentagon and the State Department.

He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."

Powell's first and only loyalty should have been to the Constitution he had taken an oath to defend and protect, not to the Fuehrer! By choosing Bush over the Constitution, Powell put himself on the same moral plane as Germany's generals when they swore allegiance to Hitler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
56. 100%
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...put it on a post card and mail it to his office.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
59. My thoughts, exactly....
...same excuse, different Fuhrer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
75. The cracks are becoming ravines
Hopefully Cheney won't get so desperate that he nukes Tehran.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
78. Powell and Condi, both a loyal disgrace to the nation. Our children
were killed and are still being killed in measure because of their failure to speak out about what they knew and know to be the truth.
Yesterday, Condi topped even her former complicity in the dastardly deeds of this administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
81. Yup. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
112. You are correct.
You also must be a "good" soldier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
132. Absolutely agree. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wow
About time an insider came out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Condoleesa Rice
and Colin Powell, the first blacks to hold such high positions. What disappointments. Harry Belafonte was so right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. More pertinent bits:
--snip

Among his other charges:

■ The detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere was a concrete example of the decision-making problem, with the president and other top officials in effect giving the green light to soldiers to abuse detainees. You don't have this kind of pervasive attitude out there unless you've condoned it.

■ Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was part of the problem. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, she would side with the president to build her intimacy with the president.

■ The military, particularly the army and marine corps, is overstretched and demoralised. Officers, Mr Wilkerson claimed, start voting with their feet, as they did in Vietnam. . . and all of a sudden your military begins to unravel.

Mr Wilkerson said former president George H.W. Bush one of the finest presidents we have ever had understood how to make foreign policy work. In contrast, he said, his son was not versed in international relations and not too much interested in them either.


(Can't agree with the first half of his last statement, but certainly is on point with the rest.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
91. Yeah, I'm not sure about the GHWB praise.
But I tell ya, he was a helluva lot more in touch with foreign policy AND reality, which has escaped his idiot son.

The more I read these insider accounts, the more I realize the TRUE power a President has. There has been so many times that people have suggested that the position was that of a figurehead, but until you get one like Nixon or George Bush, you don't realize how they can fuck up the entire country, and perhaps the world, with their failings. Nixon.. well at least he didn't come close to destroying the world or the country with his failings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
103. This is absolutely sickening.........
Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was gpart of the problemh. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, gshe would side with the president to build her intimacy with the presidenth.

Intimacy with the president? :puke: We've always wondered about Kindasleezy's "relationship" with her husb.... er, the president. That this common political whore would jeopardize everything this country stands for in order to be "build her intimacy" with Der Failure is beyond the pale of reason. I hope this cheap whore burns in hell with the rest of these criminals. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Damn thats a hell of a read....
finally an insider with the intellect and guts to tell it like it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'm callin' TREASON.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. Uhmmm....Powell outed Cheney?
I think that's entirely possible....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
31. interesting transcript of a talk by Col. Wilkerson (same source)
Col. Wilkerson presents some very specific assessments about foriegn policy and the nature of decision making in the White House, some supporting past Rep. administrations, some supporting past Dem. administrations...(I assume the "UI" notes in the transcript means unintelligible)

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c925a686-40f4-11da-b3f9-00000e...

Transcript: Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson
By Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson
Published: October 20 2005 00:17 | Last updated: October 20 2005 00:17

The following is a transcript of talk given by Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Mr Powell until last January.

<snip>

We need to force the inter-agency process, for example, to conform to President Clintons PDD 56, if youre familiar with that. It was a document that described, it could be improved on, but it described very well how America should deal with crisis. The problem was nobody followed it.

Problem was nobody followed it so bad that when a Senate group was set up to investigate that very subject and called my boss, that was then a private citizen for whom I was working in a private capacity, and said, would you come sit on our group, would you help us with this, because we really think the process is .

My boss answer was simply, no, I wont because youve got it already. You cant hardly improve on what youve got already. You just have to force execution of what youve got.

<snip>

I dont know what the case is today. I wish I did. But the case that I saw for 4 plus years was a case that I have never seen in my studies of aberration, bastardizations, , changes to the national security process. What I saw was a cabal between the Vice President of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the Secretary of Defense and on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made.

And then when the bureaucracy was presented with those decisions and carried them out, it was presented in such a disjointed incredible way that the bureaucracy often didnt know what it was doing as it moved to carry them out.

<more>

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c925a686-40f4-11da-b3f9-00000e...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #31
105. That's because the Bush cabal's prime motivation is looting. They have...
...no interest in governing. Rumsfeld said it: freedom = the freedom to loot.

Small comfort, maybe. But everything they do is chaotic and shabby, all the better to create opportunities for mass-scale robbery. They have no interest in building or creating anything, not even a fascist state. They're letting the neocons run amok just because they are so good at messing things up, so that more loot gets shoveled toward Bush buds. The puppetmasters have no ideology. They are THIEVES.

--------

"And then when the bureaucracy was presented with those decisions and carried them out, it was presented in such a disjointed incredible way that the bureaucracy often didn't know what it was doing as it moved to carry them out." --Wilkerson
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. Music! Sweet music! The hits just keep a comin'!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
callady Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
34. It's all right here in this flow chart-Note Mr. Wurmser
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:17 PM by callady
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
60. Chart developing nicely.
Shrub still out of the loop?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #60
104. Shrub, out of the loop?
Not a fucking chance, he was well aware of everything his sycophants were doing and undoubtedly condoned it. Insulated perhaps, but NOT out of the loop. If he doesn't go down with the rest he'll be isolated at the top with none of his handlers to guide his actions. The spoiled frat-boy will be all on his own and completely ineffective. He can't tie his shoes on his own, I would imagine the balance of his term would be spent in the Oval Office playing Nintendo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #104
122. His dad also displeased? n/t
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 04:42 PM by EuroObserver
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
92. I think I understand WHY Fitz is getting such cooperation right now.
Interesting and frightening when you see how much separation there is between the White House and the CIA, etc. When you can actually look at the committees and boards that have superceded the intelligence officials, it's just completely scary. If I went through the list of names of those groups, I know I would find a ton of the indicted Reaganites, and Iran Contra players.. and of course PNACers.

Are we seeing a bloodless coup in D.C. right now? Are we wresting back the power from the neo con PNAC crowd in a public forum? Is Fitzgerald gaining cooperation by people who are willing risk their careers and possible lives in order to give America BACK to the people and out of the hands of the PNAC?????????????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Teena Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
106. Callady...
That chart's amazing! But I sincerely doubt that George W. Bush was really left out of the decisions that the so-called cabal have made over the past 5 years. What do you think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
callady Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #106
130. My personal belief
is that George Bush is informed of everything but only in the slightest of fashions as he is only good for and necessary to the final rubber stamp. Why he is the perfect President for these uber-criminals running the US is that it would take someone who is extremely ineffectual, arrogant and at the same time wanting to appear to be astute and in control (like most frat boys) to sign off on this transparently criminal agenda.

So it is in my view easy to see George sitting around the table with the real decision-makers and looking totally absorbed while remaining silent-but important looking- and offering a few words of self important gibberish at the end of the process.

The neo-cons know they can count on George for his signing off on whatever they want. His father-a war criminal- kept these neo-cons at an arms length calling them "The Crazies". Even such a foul murderous psycopath as Bush 1 wouldn't let these kooks in on any real decisions.

Cheney is also a complete flop and his career is fraught with failure in just about everything he has done, from college to world politics. It's amazing.

Look into Michael Ledeen's role in all of this.

George Bush is a stupid man. I've heard all the discussions and debates on this. But the more important point is that he is a mean-spirited, unfeeling pathological liar and is void of any conscious whatsoever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
133. Very interesting chart - what date does it represent? And where is
Bolton? According to Seymour Hersh, he was in the middle of the intel fixing scam and had a pipeline to CIA through his former chief aide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. Cheney Cabal Hijacked Foreign Policy
Financial Times article....when its out in the open down on Wall Street...the fat lady is about to sing!

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Music! Sweet music! The hits just keep a comin'!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
39. it's about GD time!!!!!
du'ers have been calling this cabal out for what seems like forever! i knew that when the media turned on them it would be over and it looks like it is. i think i'm going to have a drink and celebrate! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. "world's most loyal soldier."-- loyality factor again!


He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. The Financial Times nails it here, I think...great article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. Financial Times is a fount of Truth
Recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
45. Link to the speech transcript.
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerartic...

Not the easiest read, but interesting.

And I would say that we have courted disaster, in Iraq, in North Korea, in Iran, generally with regard to domestic crises like Katrina, Rita and I could go on back, we haven't done very well on anything like that in a long time. And if something comes along that is truly serious, truly serious, something like a nuclear weapon going off in a major American city, or something like a major pandemic, you are going to see the ineptitude of this government in a way that will take you back to the Declaration of Independence. Read it some time again.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. The gushing over Poppy Bush is hard to take
S&L heist bailout? Courting Saddam until the moment of the Kuwait invasion? Hello?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. Link to video or audio
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #57
79. Thank you for the link. The transcript is incomplete, it's worth listening
to the whole thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
46. "...building intimacy..."
Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was part of the problem. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, she would side with the president to build her intimacy with the president.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
47. It was a cabal no doubt about it!!! That got completely out of
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 10:10 PM by lovuian
control and Cheney ruled it!!!

I love the word "intimacy" for Condi!!! Perfect!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. glory days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
128. Yes his sweet sugar doll.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. Where the hell was this revelation, oh, 2 years ago???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Teena Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
108. I know it seems a bit late...
but if all of this exposure had taken place earlier, it may not have had the effect that I hope it will have. Namely, I am hoping that the Republican Party has been so tarnished by all of the recently revealed scandals that Democrats will be able to regain their rightful places through the power of next month's elections. A Democratic Congress would make me very happy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
53. and we're to expect he was innocent? He served the same "cabal"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
54. Rummy.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 11:34 PM by RUMMYisFROSTED
Now we're talking.

Flying under the radar no more.

It's Dick and Rummy. Always has been.




ETA: Nixon's proteges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #54
64. You've worn your s/n well
I love a good frosting. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #54
85. Exactly....Dick and Rummy both served under Nixon!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
61. "she would side with the president to build her intimacy" with him.
Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was part of the problem. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, she would side with the president to build her intimacy with the president.

I always believed she was really his wife, Laura is just a show piece.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
65. Wow, Holy shit!, Kicked.. Nominated, Must Read..I'm Still shaking
Let's see them brush this off.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e...

If ever there was a must read article...This was it (above). I don't think you can put the cat back in the bag now...Popcorn?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
66. Rats are jumping ship
It seems that the WH is down and vulnerable so they feel a little less restraint about speaking out. Nobody in the media or this administration talked bad about George, or reported bad things 2 years ago. Now the press is playing with McClellan like a cat does a mouse. He must know he is about to be killed any day now. I think the last time we had this atmosphere and non fabricated stuff was back in Nixon's administration. Let me see, Dick Nixon, Dick Cheney. Is it just me or does it seem that when you get a Dick in the WH there is trouble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. There were at least two Dicks in Nixon's White House
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 03:45 AM by tinrobot
Cheney was one of them... and he's repeating the exact same mistakes.

Some people never learn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. This is off of the subject
You know who else was around in the Nixon years? Rudy Guliani(sp). He was in on a special presidential commision after the hostage situation at the '72 Olimpics in Munich. They looked at ways that terroist and hostage takers may use airplanes to accomplish their goals. Rudy and the Nixon gang knew, why din't Condi?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #70
86. WTF....I didn't know that!....Now I'm really pass the disgusted off stage!
:wtf: :mad: :argh: :spank: :grr: :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #86
101. Here it is, the link
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 11:13 AM by jamesinca
Young Rudy foresaw 9/11-like threats



BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON - Three decades before Al Qaeda destroyed the World Trade Center with planes, a secret presidential panel warned that Islamic terrorists might blow up U.S. jetliners or contaminate cities with radioactive "dirty bombs."

The Cabinet Committee to Combat Terrorism, formed by President Richard Nixon, even asked the advice of a young prosecutor named Rudy Giuliani.

Giuliani testified in 1976 that the Justice Department, where he was a top official, "must take a more active position in combating terrorism," according to once-classified documents unearthed by The Associated Press and released yesterday.

www.nydailynews.com/front/story/274339p-234804c.html



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Teena Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
109. jamesinca -
it's not off-topic at all! Who seemed to know quite a bit about what was happening on 9/11 before most of the rest of us? Guiliani! Why was FEMA in New York City on September 10, 2001? because he wanted them there to be ready for the attack. Why were the towers destroyed through explosives into fairly equal-sized sections? To make it more expeditious to cart them out of there without being checked for explosive residue.
I did not buy into the conspiracy theory about 9/11 being planned and carried out through cooperation with government officials until recently. It's all becoming much clearer. How sad for our country and for the victims' families. I hope justice is served immediately and without mercy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
67. Another aspen turns.
Must be a big grove.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #67
77. Come back to work---back to life
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
68. KGO AM's Ray Taliaferro just read the entire article on air
Hear the discussion at http://www.kgoam810.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
71. More from the article
The comments, made at the New America Foundation, a Washington think-tank, were the harshest attack on the administration by a former senior official since criticisms by Richard Clarke, former White House terrorism czar, and Paul O'Neill, former Treasury secretary, early last year.

Mr Wilkerson said his decision to go public had led to a personal falling out with Mr Powell, whom he served for 16 years at the Pentagon and the State Department.

He's not happy with my speaking out because, and I admire this in him, he is the world's most loyal soldier."

Among his other charges: About Military and Condoleezza Rice

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
72. "cowboyism"
He accused President George W. Bush of "cowboyism" in dealing with foreign leaders and said that Cheney and Rumsfeld and others could not be kept under control by a president "not versed in international relations and not too interested in them either."

The White House did not immediately return a call seeking comment.


http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-uswi...

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
76. Two things in this article stand out the most for me!
"The detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere was a concrete example of the decision-making problem, with the president and other top officials in effect giving the green light to soldiers to abuse detainees. You don't have this kind of pervasive attitude out there unless you've condoned it.

Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was part of the problem. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, she would side with the president to build her intimacy with the president".

Finally many are speaking out. I hope Fitz is getting all of this information, because IMO it definitely plays a crucial part in indicting those bastards that have destroyed this nation and all that it once stood for. It's the only way we can begin the clean up and the healing process.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #76
107. Yeah, you know, that torture thing was (is) illegal, too.
Thanks for pointing it out, Tight_rope. I just caught the significance of it. (He's pinning the torture on THEM--Rumsfeld and Cheney. We knew this, but to have a Powell man say it....)

I've been thinking this Wilkerson speech was a political move to undercut Rice, and promote Powell as Cheney's replacement ("loyal soldier," yes--that's important to corporations--but no "toady" like Rice--a "yes woman," no leader), thence to '08 and a Diebold/ES&S "selection." And that may be true; still, his language and the charges he is making are fairly incendiary. Wonder what he may know about Fitzgerald, the GJ and pending indictments (and about McNulty's AIPAC/Franklin prosecution).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
80. While it's nice to see what we've long thought proven
Where the heck were these guys while it was happening?

If they're so sad about what it's done to the US, where were they when they could have done something about it? Now the wind is blowing back at them, and suddenly, they come out with their revelations. A little late, isn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
83. THE LONG KNIVES ARE OUT AND THE BLOOD IS STARTING TO FLOW!
Awesome!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
84. This video is a must see
Collin physically threw him out of his office, says the first time in 16 years. The atmosphere in the office was high. We were wrong, we were wrong,hope this guy doesn't disappear.Talking about the aluminum tubes. We were wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #84
89. How come it always takes so long to come out on screen?
Like a lot of us have been reading the whole story for years and yet they are barely putting it out for the reading impaired :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
90. Oh my. The wheels are coming off this thing known as the Bush presidency.
This guy is a straight shooter. He nails Powell and Rice eloquently. How many of these people have to come forward before someone notices? I mean.. they can't discredit them ALL? Can they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
94. Corporate Media is NOT picking this up
Just four hits on "Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson"

www.news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22Colonel+Lawr...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. Let's send it to them and see if they have the spine to report on it
....it's unlikely, since it's not a runaway bride or a missing coed, but it's worth a shot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #97
118. lol, good one
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
95. OK 2 things.
1. I don't believe any story that claims Bush wasn't in the loop. That excuse is an old Republican stand by.

2. Even if this is true it shows a President that is incompetent not in control of his own administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
B3Nut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
96. Uh Oh...he's being compared to Daddy!
" Mr Wilkerson said former president George H.W. Bush one of the finest presidents we have ever had understood how to make foreign policy work. In contrast, he said, his son was not versed in international relations and not too much interested in them either.

There's a vast difference between the way George H.W. Bush dealt with major challenges, some of the greatest challenges at the end of the 20th century, and effected positive results in my view, and the way we conduct diplomacy today.

Oops. Poor Oedipus Tex is being compared to his Daddy, and unfavorably. This could get ugly if he sees this.

Todd in Beerbratistan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Teena Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #96
110. "W" sez...
"it's hard work opposing everything daddy stands for."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
119. he really hates that, doesn't he!
Apparently he even gets snippy when people refer to him as "President Bush" -- because his dad was the original one. Dubya prefers "Mr. President".

What a petty, foolish little man. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes "one-term" jokes at his dad's expense, at family gatherings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
100. Wow. A couple of thoughts...

  • Powell's aide Wilkerson makes it apparent that Powell values absolute loyalty to the Chimperor over his loyalty to the Constitution and the best interests of the American people. Powell needs to do some recalculating, and soon, or he's going to go down in history as one of America's worst villains, along with Bush.

  • Wilkerson brings even more illumination to what we knew already: Bush and his administration have always been extremist and out of control. They are not garden-variety conservatives (who are simply going in a different direction on policy matters, but still support the best interests of the country), but rather an organized crime gang that has all but set out to endanger the republic. I assume Wilkerson is speaking out as he has seen enough and wants it to come to an early end.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
headhigh Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #100
116. Powell's Dilemma
I am going to take the high road and work off the assumption that Powell is generally a "good guy." In that case, why would he have stepped out of the way and let the wackos completely run the joint? From his point of view wouldn't he rather be "in the circle" and have some amount of influence rather than get out of the way?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinymontgomery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
113. Why does
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 12:49 PM by tinymontgomery
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson hate america? He's not praising the king, whats wrong with him, passed over, not getting his fair share of the pie, what is wrong? :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
115. As a friend pointed out in email, PNAC was known and signed.
So not a big surprise when they went and did it, really, was it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #115
136. The corporate media is still ignoring the PNAC angle
They don't want people to realize that the war in Iraq was planned before Bush ran for President, an imperialistic agenda that is also echoed by DLC's PPI.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
117. what does this mean???
"The comments, made at the New America Foundation, a Washington think-tank, were the harshest attack on the administration by a former senior official since criticisms by Richard Clarke, former White House terrorism czar, and Paul O'Neill, former Treasury secretary, early last year."

Is the date off or did Clarke or O'Neill say something more "last year"?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
120. we haven't been the crazy ones all along.

we have been so much closer to the truth.

let's hope more find the courage to speak out as people who love their country more than their ideology.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
121. So many people to thank for this debacle
First, the people who believed *'s 2000 campaign lies.
Next, the Supreme Court of 2000 (thanks for nothing, guys).
Next, fear and greed,and ignorance which kept people obeying the wishes of the * administration since 9/11.
Then, the people who voted for them in the 2004 election, regardless of what they were seeing with their own eyes. And let's not forget our good "friends" at Diebold.

Good, innocent people have become victims both here and abroad. We should be glad, I suppose, that they have been brought to a halt this soon. They were too evil to get away with it for long, unchecked by a Congress or Court.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
124. the evil HW Bush had an IDIOT VP (Quayle).
we have the opposite.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
125. So this says Chimpy abdicated his responsibility?
Don't foreign policy decisions rest with the President?

If Cheney and his office could "hijack" foreign policy, then it would mean that the Chimp let him hijack it or didn't care. Not a good sign for the President to be out of the loop when it comes to foreign policy, now is it?

Perhaps Chimpy was riding his bike that day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MCMetal Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #125
135. "Curious George the cartoon chimp should be the next VP"
Making intelligent decisions is actually "foreign policy" to Chimpy McFlightsuit .......I'm shocked he even lasted this long before being exposed as the buffoon he always was and will be
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
138. internecine spat over just exactly how to dominate the world: pox on all
Sorry, can't be sympathetic to any of these criminal thugs, including him. This guy, given the gravity of the situation and the danger to the world didn't do his duty and stand up when he should have. Better late than never? screw that, late is not good enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ihatekoolaid Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
139. Other examples of other departments sticking their noses in !
Do a web search for "The Mongenthau Plan". This was a plan by Sec of Treasury Mongenthau to literally destroy all factories in post-war Germany in order to make the german people "easy pickin's" for the Soviets. He was a Communist sympathizer, and was pushed by his asst sec of treasury, Dr. Harry Dexter White, who was the highest level spy the Soviet Union has had inside the US Government. Here is an excerpt of the Morgenthau diaries written by Dr. Anthony Kubek, an authority on the matter:

"Stated in its simplest terms, the objective of the Morgenthau Plan was to de-industrialize Germany and diminish its people to a pastoral existence once the war was won. If this could be accomplished, the militaristic Germans would never rise again to threaten the peace of the world. This was the justification for all the planning, but another motive lurked behind the obvious one. The hidden motive was unmasked in a syndicated column in the New York Herald Tribune in September 1946, more than a year after the collapse of the Germans. The real goal of the proposed condemnation of "all of Germany to a permanent diet of potatoes" was the communization of the defeated nation. "The best way for the German people to be driven into the arms of the Soviet Union," it was pointed out, "was for the United States to stand forth as the champion of indiscriminate and harsh misery in Germany." <4>

So, here we have an asst sec of TREASURY (a communist spy), pushing the sec of treasury (communist sympathizer) to push the President of the US towards a plan for Post-War Germany that will benefit only the Soviets.

Would this not be considered stepping over boundaries, the Dept of Treasury doing the Department of States Job?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug 22nd 2014, 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC