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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:35 PM
Original message
Senate Again Fails to Raise Minimum Wage
Senate Again Fails to Raise Minimum Wage
By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer

Wednesday, October 19, 2005

(10-19) 15:03 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

Senate proposals to raise the minimum wage were rejected Wednesday, making it unlikely that the lowest allowable wage, $5.15 an hour since 1997, will rise in the foreseeable future.

A labor-backed measure by Sen. Edward Kennedy would have raised the minimum to $6.25 over an 18-month period. A Republican counterproposal would have combined the same $1.10 increase with various breaks and exemptions for small businesses.

The Kennedy amendment to a spending bill went down 51-47, and the GOP alternative 57-42. Under a Senate agreement, they would have needed 60 votes for approval.

Kennedy, D-Mass., said Hurricane Katrina demonstrated the depth of poverty in the country and he pointed out that a single parent with two children working a minimum wage earns $10,700 a year, $4,500 below the poverty line.

He said it was "absolutely unconscionable" that in the same period that Congress has denied a minimum wage increase, lawmakers have voted themselves seven pay raises worth $28,000.
(snip/...)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/1...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. By, of, and for the conniving
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Minimum Wage Laws Don't Work.
If the minimum wage is higher than prevailing wages, employers will find a way to substitute wages for something else: self-checkout aisles, vending machines, overseas tech help, contracted cleaning services, you name it.

Better than a minimum wage, make it so that Labor isn't the surplus factor of production. With enough Capital & Land, and the economic means to allocate them, Labor will be relatively scarce, and therefore valuable - allowing workers to shop jobs for the best wages and working conditions.

To do this:
1. Eliminate the payroll tax: Labor becomes 15.3% cheaper, more people are employed, harder to find employees at poor wages.
2. Eliminate income taxes on income less than $100,000. Labor becomes another 15% cheaper, further raising employment.
3. Eliminate sales taxes. Wages go further, sales increase, more commerce, more business opportunities
4. Eliminate property taxes on buildings, machines, and the like. More buildings are put under construction (employing people), more machines are ordered (employing people) More businesses have places to operate, and machines to work with; more people have homes to live in.
to make up revenue, tax non-productive (speculative) investment vehicles: land values and resource values, as well as charging market rates for other government-granted titles, permits, licenses, and charters.
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think your post just broke about 25 unwritten laws at DU
Shame on you for thinking outside the box :sarcasm:

You are spot on about the surplus factor of labor keeping wage low

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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. They DO work over time
And small businesses would benifit from a higher minimum wage. Check out all the articles on "United for A Fair Economies" site-

http://www.google.com/search?q=+minimum+wage&hl=en&lr=&...

And look at countries in euriope with MUCH higher minimum wages and you'll get the picture :)
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. How many working adults that have a full time job is paid minimum wage?
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The avg non supervisor non farm private wage per hour is
$16.18 an hour Sept 2005 up from $15.77 from a year ago

Actually it is down 3% in 1982 dollars, though
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. That's average, for many people this is simply not true
I know adults with kids that work full-time and make between $5.15 and $6.00 an hour. Health insurance would be over $300 a month for them. Many work two jobs. This is the reality of many, if not most, retail and custodial workers. They absolutely do NOT make $16 an hour. God, that's more than I make.
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. How many have ONE full time job at min wage? Very few,
most of the adults working at min wage are working multiple part time jobs, because if they were full time at any one place, they would be eligible for bennies and protections.

And no, I don't have anything to back that up other than anecdotal evidence. I'm just repeating what I hear from people that I talk to.
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nvliberal Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Yep, it's true.
I am astounded at how easily liberals and progressives buy into right-wing economic hogwash.
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. You got that right on, I lived this situation and it is not pretty.
:kick:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. you are correct...i know plenty of adults in rural upstate NY that do this
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nvliberal Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Raising the minimum wage gives people MORE money to spend,
which in turn CREATES jobs.

It is one of the most vicious lies by the Republicans to claim the minimum wage costs jobs.

What they are doing is pandering to the restaurant industry and others which depend on cheap labor.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. And borrow to make up for the lost revenue? Or just default.
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nvliberal Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Let's not claim raising the minimum wage eliminates jobs.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:09 PM by nvliberal
That's a Republican talking point, and it wasn't true during the Clinton years, nor in years previously where there was a raise.

Not that your suggestions are bad, but don't peddle the Republican nonsense please, simply because it's not true.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Interesting ideas.
I particularly like the part about a $1.5 trillion deficit.

A year! :wow:

to make up revenue, tax non-productive (speculative) investment vehicles: land values and resource values, as well as charging market rates for other government-granted titles, permits, licenses, and charters.

I only play an economist on the web but these "make-ups" wouldn't seem to even touch the reduction in revenues that you proposed previously. I'm open-minded- prove me wrong.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. How about we really think outside the box?
"Better than a minimum wage, make it so that Labor isn't the surplus factor of production. With enough Capital & Land, and the economic means to allocate them, Labor will be relatively scarce, and therefore valuable - allowing workers to shop jobs for the best wages and working conditions"
(I hope you don't mean "production" as in "manufacturing" if so you should address this to China.)

The only way to do this is of course use all available natural resources here and from abroad, consuming more and more until we are completely buried in our own trash.

How about instead we realize with the computerization of the American "Service Sector" there are just not and never will be enough meaningful jobs to go around. The answer is a guarantee livable "wage" and free health care for everyone, with or without employment. The unemployed could pursue useful lives in whatever "career" they chose be it in the arts or in service to their fellow citizens or as crack junkies....whaever they would choose for themselves. Oops......too close to "freedom" I guess. The alternative is to rebuild our infrastructure ala Sen, Hawkins (D-IW) 1980 ?.
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Marlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is disgusting
You would think with Bush's poll numbers in the dumper, some of the
Republicans would start worrying about what's right for the country
not only what's right for the top 1% but no. Their blatant
arrogance reflect the entire Bush administration. They just don't
care, they feel invulnerable. I can't stand this crap anymore.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kennedy Hypocritical
While Edward Kennedy is down there on the Senate floor fighting for a minimum wage increase, he is also trying to push through an H-1B VISA
increase of 60,000.

This is ridiculous. Use of the H-1B VISA to bring in cheaper foreigners and displace American engineers and computer scientists is now well documented. Recently the DOL approved an engineering H-1B VISA for 10 bucks an hour! Unemployment rates are still high for high tech workers
and only 3,000 jobs have been added in high tech since the crash.

How can Kennedy claim to fight for the American worker while trying to screw the American engineer and computer scientist at the same time?

There are 20k H-1B VISAs for foreign talent who went to US advanced degree universities and these believe it or not are unused.

This increase is simply again, abuse, labor arbitrage to displace Americans!

Please call him and express your solidarity with the middle class and tell him you are outraged by his action!

Edward Kennedy (MA) 202-224-4543
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. What a contradiction
from Kennedy about the minimum wage and the outsourcing bill!!!

Unbelievable!!! :hurts:
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NJ_Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Minimum Wage hasn't been raised since...


... 1997? That is incomprehensible... It really brings tears to my eyes thinking of how impossibly expensive everything is right now and I ask myself how they could actually vote against this... Wow..... When did these people stop being human beings with an ounce of compassion?... So sad...
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Jamison Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Headline from the year 2055...
"The Senate today has again defeated a proposal to raise the minimum wage from $5.15 an hour..."

Yep, it will never go up.
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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Let them eat cake!
This issue can be solved at the state level.Even on the Local level.Milaukee and Madison both raised minumum wage for their cities,forcing the repugs in state senate to raise state minumum wage.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. It should be far higher than $6.25, but I suppose that's a start. n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. no shit...it should be $10 an hr at least!
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. Senate RollVote Minimum Wage (I am shocked Richie S is worried :)
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Senate-Roll...

ctober 19, 2005
Senate RollVote Minimum Wage
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 8:03 p.m. ET
..cut...

Democrats No

None
..cut..

Republicans Yes

Chafee, R.I.; DeWine, Ohio; Santorum, Pa.; Specter, Pa.

..more at link...

Both Senators from PA voted for the higher min wage.... Who would have guess that.... :evilgrin:

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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. Olympia Snowe voted No
Mainers need to remember this next year!
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Congress pay is up $27,000 plus since 1997!
That is more than twice what a full time minimum wage person gets in a year.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. close enough to 3 times ... n/t
:mad:

dp
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. and they say people are lazy - they never equate poverty to no
pay

this statement gets me ranting every year

He said it was "absolutely unconscionable" that in the same period that Congress has denied a minimum wage increase, lawmakers have voted themselves seven pay raises worth $28,000.
(snip/...)

they will again vote themselves a 4000 dollar a year raise right after the elections while cutting everything for everyone else

they are baron robbers - where is robin hood?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. This explains the Congress' rejection of a pay raise for themselves
the other day.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh gee. What a surprise.
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. It does help the economy if you raise the min wage, then the wages for
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 04:12 AM by GetTheRightVote
the rest of the nation is raised by other workers demanding increases in their own wages based on the increased in the min wage, this is the change that corporations do not want to see happen in wages, it is a natural event in a capitalist economy. It is not always obvious why they do not want a change, but you can bet if the Repubs do not want it then it is a bad deal for the working class.

:kick:
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
28. Goverment price floors
and cielings almost never work w/o horrendeous side effects.

This includes floors on the price of labor.

Conversely, I would actually trade off the minimum wage entirely for significant pro-union laws including a universal repeal of "right to work" and card check laws for organizing -- as well as additional protections.

I can't speak for everywhere, but at least in my area the only people who pay minimum wage are summer camps and daycares who hire students. Even the convience store jobs and fast food jobs and walmart pay 6-7/hr.

I also live in one of the poorest areas of the country, so if anything we are on the low end.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
30. me thinks two people here made a wrong turn back at the fork in the road
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
35. This is why the POOR should VOTE...
the most frustrating thing I ran into was walking through low income areas for the Kerry campaign and finding that the majority of households were not registered to vote and that even if they were, they didn't vote at all.

So when the Senate votes this way....I am disgusted but not surprised becaues the poor and low income families won't hold them accountable.
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