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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:49 AM
Original message
Bush vows to oust 'every single' illegal
October 19, 2005

President Bush said yesterday that his goal is eventually to expel "every single" illegal alien from the United States as his administration pressed Congress to pass a guest-worker program.

Although conceding that the administration cannot immediately deport the estimated 11 million illegal aliens who are here, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and Labor Secretary Elaine L. Chao told Congress that a temporary-worker program would give aliens an incentive to come out of hiding and let them work legally for six years before being forced to return home.

As Mr. Bush signed the homeland security spending bill yesterday, he said Congress should couple a guest-worker plan with increased border security.

"We're going to get control of our borders," he said during the signing ceremony in the East Room. "Our goal is clear -- to return every single illegal entrant, with no exceptions."


http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051019-121035-2494r...


Sorry about the source, but is Bush out of his mind? Or is this part of his plan to militarize the US?






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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. He no longer needs to pander to Hispanic voters. n/t
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boredofeducation Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Illegals don't vote anyways
Illegals can't vote anyways so why would he be pandering to them? What he is doing is trying to give his base a little red meat to get them to rally behind him again. He doesn't want to lose congress in 2006.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #28
54. I think you've missed the point.
Pandering to Hispanics isn't about whether illegal aliens can vote or not. He's not pandering for the vote of the illegals (obviously), but the illegals have family, friends, and associates who are citizens and do vote.

Immigration policy is still very much a concern for Hispanics who do vote.

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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
85. it's less about hispanics than it is about corporate
interests and depressing wages. While he may talk about booting out illegals, a guest worker program would please corporations because it would redefine who is an illegal and open the floodgates for more cheap labor.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #85
112. Bingo
This is another (as Lou Dobbs would put it) assault on the middle class.

these workers will work for $5 an hour doing big time labor jobs. Corporations get their third world labor prices, and the illegals supply a full capacity of middle class jobs, for 1/4 or less the price.

This is the worst thing I can think of them doing. It screws everybody except the rich.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #85
115. That's it, but he didn't pursue this last year because he wanted the
Viva Bush! vote.

Electoral politics do play a roll.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
113. But many are related to Voters that do vote!
:eyes:
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. You got it. I was thinking, he's gonna p.o. Hispanic voters,

but at this point in his career (gag!), it doesn't matter.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. If he pisses off enough Hispanic voters
He may push some southwest states further into the blue
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
53. his goal is 2% approval AMONG ALL MINORITIES
i hates em all
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. I don't think that's it.
I think he's trying to get the secular Conservatives back. His guest worker program - among many other things - has turned a lot of them off, and his base is "eroding" in much the same way water "erodes" from a cup when you turn it upside down. So he makes a statement like this, which smacks of desperation, in order to try to get them back.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. He's trying to round up the "Lou Dobbs Democrats"
I see a downturn in the tanning salon business.. Anyone with tan-to brown skin will be a target for the "next wave"..

Be prepared to prove your citizenship..Time to get that passport :)
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Halliburton will get the contract.... and they will hire illegals to do
the "work".
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
61. Actually it's his new plan for boosting employment levels. Now Katrina
victims and poor people in general can work for pennies.
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. That was my feeling as well n/t
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. drunks always have grandiose thoughts.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Don't forget - this contradicts another of Bush's "rightie-pleasing
policies" :sarcasm: - the "amnesty" program for illegal immigrants - who just happen to be working for slave wages instead of real wages (and using CITIZENS) . . .
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
41. Bingo!...You are so right...What happened to his "AMNESTY" ...
program. :shrug:I guess that went out the door after Roves last visit to the GJ. And let's not forget the "Aspen turning in clusters".

The Chimperor is trying everything to grasp his bases' attention.
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HoosierClarkie Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
118. Many Repubs that I know were upset about the
amnesty. This guy is desperate. It is getting more rediculous with every day that passes. :popcorn:
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Distracting and pandering.
Fuck him and the fake horse he rode in on.

Too bad it's too late to expel that POS Shwartzenasshole.

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apple_ridge Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is his attempt to reach out to the
hard core repukes who seem to be abandoning him over Miers, etc.

Obviously, he doesn't want to get rid of them since he has offered them a chance to stay under a guest worker program, but the action will still appeal to the xenophobes in the party.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
49. bushit is throwing his "have more"
base some bloody red meat only to snatch it away when their salivating glands are good and worked up.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. lot of nerve
coming from an incompetent piece of shit illegally occupying the White House
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
89. DING! DING! DING!
We have the all-time winner of winners! Bravo!
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Republicans won't be around long enough to implement
this singularly stupid idea. It isn't do-able anyway.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. In the meantime
while Bush was dazzling everybody with bullshit, he was signing a bill giving more money to Homeland Security. The guy is like a card shark.

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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. I hope he does.
I just don't see it happening. He's just to into the whole cheap labor thing.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Well then he better get started
Because he ain't done anything for 5 years now. More illegals were expelled in the Clinton Administration.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. Looks like Dean was right.
The GOP will bash immigrants just in time for 2006.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Typical BushCo strategy
Got to have someone to bash.

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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
59. Yep, Dean said on Face the Nation (or whatever) a month or two ago
that the GOP was going to demonize illegals like they demonized gays in the past election cycle.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
83. They've already got a jumpstart.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 01:26 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
This mindset is not limited to republicans. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. Target gays and gay marriage....check; alienate blacks...check;
scapegoat illegals (especially if they're hispanic)...CHECK
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. I was afraid Repubs would seize on this for the next big wedge issue
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 07:08 AM by wishlist
They will begin portraying liberals and Dems as soft on illegal immigration as well as national security. They desperately need a powerful new wedge issue and I am afraid they will succeed if Democrats do not "seem" equally tough on stemming illegal immigration.

We all know Bush is blowing smoke and his business supporters want a huge pool of low wage immigrants. But Repubs know how to sound tough and appeal to the public even though they won't deliver the goods to back up their popular rhetoric.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. Too little, too late.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 07:16 AM by The Backlash Cometh
If they're here, they're here to say.

There's a group of Mexicans who have taken over our public soccer fields on Sundays to play soccer tournaments. They just came out of no where, to suddenly having these very mono-cultured teams with very nice uniforms. Personally, I would love to go watch them play, but I know the machismo of the Mexican culture and I know I wouldn't be able to do it easily.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
91. What are you talking about?
You're scared to watch soccer players because of the machismo of Mexican culture!? Huh?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #91
109. Yep. Afraid so. But not for the reasons you'd think, but because
in their culture, they'd wonder why an hispanic woman was hanging around without her husband.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
99. Whah??
Have you considered walking up and asking them if they mind you waching?

Jez... scared to watch them play because of their race...

Racist much lately??
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. No, actually, half mexican-american.
It's a cultural thing.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
107. Hey you'd be surprised at how nice those soccer players probably are!
I work wih a few guys from Mexico city and they're very cool in my opinion. I think we have a bit of a tainted incorrect view of people from Mexicho here in the ole U.S.A. Don't let your preconcieved notions ruin your opportunities to make new friends and learn about the world.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Think again.
It would be hasty of me to assume that just because they're in this country, that they'd be Americanized. Understanding someone's culture, isn't the same thing as being racist.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. eh.....you lost me on that.
No worrys. I think we just have different views. C'est la vie.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. Come on. Does he expect us to believe that crap?
Talk about pandering to his falling base.
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harlinchi Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Oh he'll do this. It's just that he'll also redefine what illegal is! n/t
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Exactly: convert "illegal" to "quasi-legal". 11 million can stay.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Quasi-legal: You can work here but you can't join a union?
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Yep. Keep the hypocrisy consistent (oxymoronic, isn't it?)
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Kind of like the "manufacturing" burgers = manufacturing jobs thing.
Remember that scam they tried to pull?
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. So * is going to EVENTUALLY expel "every single" illegal alien?
Is he saying that these people will be deported after they have been here for six years-with the explicit permission of the federal government-marrying and having children? HAHAHAHA.

Are you buying this, freeps?

Looks to me like he meant it when he called the cheap-labor-loving- Elite his base.

(I say give them full amnesty or start going after the employers. A guest worker program will simply institutionalize slave labor).
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
36. Guest Workers will, by definition, continue to work for slave wages.
The problem with "regular" undocumented workers is that they might stay here long enough to want a piece of the pie. They'll want to be paid better, have job choice, buy homes & raise their children to go for the American dream.

Surely, special "restrictions" could be placed on the guest workers. Should they be allowed to bring their wives? Should any children born here become US citizens? Wouldn't a truly permanent underclass be more useful to the bosses?




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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
121. I think that they should be paid minimum wages and employers
that don't hire them legally and pay minimum wages should be fined and if they continue with repeat offenses, it should be a criminal offense.

They should apply for citizenship just like anyone else or not stay.

Paying people slave labor wages does not help the American economy overall. It's also a shameful practice.

JMO.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. This may be crap . . corporate america (his buddies) RELY on illegal
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 07:39 AM by mtnester
immigrants.

Or maybe, as my hubby always said to me....after you use the illegals forever, and make sure the economy is in the toilet, then the citizens of the US will be more willing to accept minimum wage for every job, then you can drop the illegals because they served their purpose . . to drive wages down.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. BANG! NAILED IT! n/t
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
70. This is one of the most heated points my husband has for his political
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 12:17 PM by mtnester
and issues views. He has no problem with anyone who wants to immigrate, as long as they follow the established procedure. However, as a small business owner, who will NOT hire illegals as subcontractors, it kills him every time he goes to a new build to install a garage door, and if the cops happen to cruise the street, everyone but him HIDES.

He has ALWAYS, for several years now, maintained that driving wages down was the only reason the Repubs did not do anything about immigration issues before. Now that gas costs and arm and a leg, and the economy sucks, and people are out of work by the gazillions, bankruptcy is now NOT an option (think of the timing now on these immigration statements from the WH) desperation makes US citizens take whatever job they can find, and since this administration has been saying over and over as a mantra, that illegals take take jobs no US citizens want...now they NEED them, and will accept the lowest pay possible, and be GRATEFUL to have it.

Goes hand in hand with Union busting too. It is all part of the plan.

We are all proles if we do not step up soon.

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sweepster Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Illegals have decimated many businesses-
My friends pest control buisness is shot. All the other owners have hired illeagls to do the work-no workers comp, fica etc. They pay them cash.

My friend has lost so many clients because he has health insurance, workers comp etc on his employees. He can no longer compete. The other pest control owners tell him he's a fool and brag about how they have increased their own personal pay 200-400%.

I have no problem with allowing anyone in form ANY country. Just do it legally-and fine the heck out of employers who hire illegals-really make it hurt.

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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
102. They do need to go after the companies that hire them
especially the largest ones. Big enough hit to the bottom line and they will stop. At least I would hope so. That would dry up the flow, if no one would hire the illegals. But the problem is also that we are the safety valve for Mexico's failures to improve their own society. The immigrants (legal or illegal) send back billions of dollars each year to their families still in Mexico. It is a huge part of the economy. So any part of the solution is going to have to include more than just sending the illegals back to where they came from.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. I agree. Prison time should come to any employer that hires an illegal...
alien...and very large fines/penalties.

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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #102
124. Very well said.
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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #74
122. Exactly. Paying slave labor wages under the table hurts our economy and
the American workers.

Do it legally and pay legally - and pay in accordance with minimum wage laws.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #70
95. Another part of the plan
is he is putting the illegal immigrants between "a rock and a hard place"
threatening them with deportation if they don't register legally.

Then if they buy the bullshit, he can start a draft and make soldiers out of all of them
and have plenty of expendable bodies for his military. Either way you look at it,
he intends to exploit them for the Reich-Wing gain$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Militarization of the illegal immigrants looks like part of the plan.

This all keeps getting worse and worse everyday. :( When is all of this :hurts: going to stop?





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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. That's what Delphi will do with 2/3 pay cut
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Mend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
23. pandering to Lou Dobbs
he will be so pleased and say lots of nice things about bush on his program.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
24. Has there ever been a president....
.... who makes more ridiculous, boastful claims than this tool?

There is no power in heaven or earth that can accomplish what Bush** claims he is going to do.

In fact, the economy would CRUMBLE even faster if he actually could.

Mr. Bush has a better chance of winning the next heavyweight boxing title than he does of accomplishing what he claims he's going to do...
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. ROFLMAO.... has this "man" ever been to CA?
And....welll..... beyond my hysteria.... I'm speechless.
Duh.
Sure.
Right.

And colonize China while we're at it.
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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
123. I doubt it. It's a blue state so he couldn't care less.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
29. In Answer to Your Question
"is Bush out of his mind? Or is this part of his plan to militarize the US?"

Yes, and Yes! But this is also a dish of "red-meat" to his base, and they are the "basest base" in the history of our country.

It's another RepubliKKKan appeal to "fear" and "hate".

Americans (at least those that suck at the teet of the neo-cons) need someone to blame for their lot in life.

If they've lost their job to outsourcing, it's the "damn immigrants" fault.

If they can't pay their fuel bills, it's the "wacko environmentalist" fault.

If they can't get into college, it's the "damn blacks" fault.

If their marriage and family falls apart, it's the "damn homo's" fault.

If their 14 year old girls give out blow-jobs, it's Bill Clintons fault.

If crime increases, it's the "damn activist judges" fault.

If their wife doesn't have dinner on the table when they get home, it's the "feminazi's" fault.

If our soldiers are getting killed in a desperate war, it's the "damn liberal media's" fault.

and on, and on, and on. Identify a problem in this country, and Bush's base will find someone else to blame.

They never take the time to look internally, or maybe look at the criminals they elect to office.

In their minds, they're just perfect. And if the rest of Amurika looked like them, worked like them, prayed like them, and voted like them...we'd achieve Utopia.

and that's pretty darn scary
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. You've summed up very well the thinking (??) of non-rich
Bush supporters.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Thanks, but why can I say it, but our Dem leaders can't, or won't? n/t
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #38
50. Good question....seems like the cat's got their cojones. nt
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
63. You've got it
They are always looking for a group to blame things on. They are the same ones blaming victims of hurricane Katrina for not leaving the city, even though they lacked transportation, or the money necessary to stay in motels. They live to hate.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #29
81. This is an excellent post.
And I'm sorry to say this mindset spreads through more than just republican minds.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
100. nice post. Very well put. My only comment would be
that large amounts of illigal imigration are indeed less than healthy for society. It creates a perminent underclass that also dives down wages and makes it hard for those following the rules to compete.

I think there should be a more general amnisty program for those already here (none of this work a few more years before we deport you crap) and we should increase legal immigration. I don't think I can agree with people who think that illigal imigraton is just fine. People get taken advantage of that way.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
131. maxrandb, you nailed it.
They are always the victim.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
136. Hate to sound screwy. " Plans to militarize the US"
We're doomed as the rest of America sleeps.

You've summed it up very well.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
32. He's trying to raise his poll numbers. The only possible increase can
come from the hard core anti illegal crowd. Blacks will not come to him. Hispanics will not come to him. Women will not come to him. Male Dems will not come to him. Independents will not come to him. Fundies are pissed at him for his SCOTUS pick.
All he as left are the wealthy who want more tax cuts and stupid freeper types who are too dumb to see the light. So he wants to get the ones who hate him because he talked about amnesty before this.

This shows his desperation.


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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
33. Including Martians?
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. Self delete
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 08:06 AM by VegasWolf
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
37. ok, let's start with dual citizenship KKKarl and Chertoff...
how about we kick their butts out?
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
132. Hmmmm! I Wonder How the "Gropenator" Feels About that?
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
39. Isn't he the one who wanted to give them all driver's licenses?
Or let them drive with impunity on our highways, or some such thing? I wonder what changed his tiny little mind this time.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Is driving with impunity worse than driving without insurance?
Just wondering.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. Let's wink at illegal workers and then force them to drive to work
in uninsured vehicles...makes sense to me! Duh!
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recycledindi Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
40. oh right...sure
he's done everything else so well. this means there will be 250% more illegals in a year. the walking douchebag can't even ride a bike.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Welcome to DU recycledindi!
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
45. So Bush saw "War of the Worlds" and declared war on aliens?
Someone should tell him something. Karl may be too busy making preparations for prison life.

:rofl:
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Exactly!
I tought the news was going to be "...every single illegal action performed by his administration."

No such luck.

"Hey, America! Look over there! Them brown people are the cause of all our troubles!"
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GayCanuck Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
46. My feeling
is that if you want to come to Canada or the US via legal means then our countries should welcome you with open arms. If you are going to sneak across the border with forged documents, lie about where you came from and attempt to take advantage of our respective system then you are not the type of people we should want in either place. There are mulitple crimes being committed here and my opinion we should not reward dishonesty and criminal behavior with amnesty and certainly not citizenship. In my two shops, I do not allow for the hiring of anyone who is not here legally. In Montreal there is a problem with illegal Algerian immigrants and not much is done.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
47. Start with the illegals hired for the Katrina cleanup
a nice little crackdown coupled with some busloads of folks in shelters and trailer parks would do a lot of good for the folks who need it!
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
48. I'll believe it when I see it funded.
Too many of his corporate friends are enriching themselves on the backs of illegal workers. They don't have to pay the taxes if they don't report they have hired the worker. They can pay the worker less than the minimum wage, not just less than the prevailing wage. :mad:

Bush isn't going to take this away from the bloodsuckers, not unless he allows them to keep the workers as they currently are (no payroll taxes or Social Security or medical insurance) for the next six years. :mad:

Being paid pennies on the dollar is better than slave labor. I guess that is their penalty instead of prison for being here illegally. :eyes: :sarcasm:
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Brooklyn Michael Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
55. Bush: "Illegals can stay...."
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 09:57 AM by Brooklyn Michael
...."as long as they agree to be 'guest-workers' and bus our tables, wash our dishes, serve us lattes, manicure our gardens and watch our children...Any other aspirations they might have, screw 'em!"
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
56. Another pathetic attempt to stop the stampede of his base out of the
corral. Would Babs have to give up her house staff?
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
57. All right, let's start with you, Duh-bya. (nt)
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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
58. At this point I'd like to thank my fellow Latino voters in Arizona
who voted for this stupid piece of shit.

Happy now dumbfucks? yea I'm callin you DUMBFUCKS because YOU are the reason this bastard won Arizona all over the religious nonsense even after I told you over and over again during the campaign that this man belongs to the sect of "Christianity" that hates you for being Catholic and hates you for having the wrong color skin.

But nooooooo "family first" right? a la verga contigos!!
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
60. weird, Chertoff had the exact same headline yesterday
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 10:35 AM by foo_bar
Homeland Security Secretary: We Will "Return Every Single Illegal Entrant - No Exceptions"...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/10/18/homeland-secur...

"Return every single illegal entrant - no exceptions," Chertoff said in prepared testimony to a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on proposals to overhaul the immigration system.

One day later, Bush sez:

"Our goal is clear -- to return every single illegal entrant, with no exceptions."
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
62. Well, if he suddenly declares them all "guest workers"...
Edited on Wed Oct-19-05 11:13 AM by Zenlitened
... then hey, presto! look, there are no more illegals here!

:dunce:
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. That's what i was thinking... nt
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tmoore Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
65. * found out the twin stoner's caught some bad BUD
from a Mexican ... Time to show them who's Boss........
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
66. Yeah, sure. What an idiot.
Our economy would come to a screeching halt without illegals. What a bunch of bullshit.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. WHO WILL CLEAN THE TOILETS OF amerika?
Juan, Jose and Maria that's who !!!!!!!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #68
96. Yeah, or will be
the new soldiers? :sarcasm:
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
67. Yes, oust them straight to Iraq
As long as they're here, they might as help beat back the insurgency. Unless they're queer, that is....

How can the leader of a major country make such a ridiculously illogical statement? Another embarassment for the pile.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
69. Abolish
All borders, let people come and go as they please, and there would be less long term illegal immigration. The reason they stay so long, is that it's harder to get back in once they go to visit their families.
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sweepster Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. You are kidding right?
Immediately every poor person in the world would go to the US. It would be anarchy in the US. Wages would be driven down to 30-40 cents per hour. Social services would collapse. Let alone the pollution and ruination of the land.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. Think about it
Not everyone coming over here would have the skill set required to be able to work. There's only so many manual labor type jobs out there. The rest of the jobs would require an education.
I don't think they would come just for the services available since leaving their family would be extraordinarily difficult. As for the ecology, I've been to a lot of other countries, and they have their beautiful places as well as their problems. Just like us. Just because we hit the lottery by being born here doesn't mean we shouldn't share.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. that is so many levels of wrong I don't know where to start
> Not everyone coming over here would have the skill set required to be able to work. There's only so many manual labor type jobs out there. The rest of the jobs would require an education.

First off the number of immigrants that are qulified to do jobs requiring education would probobly startle you. Secondly part of why most countrys restrict imigration is because of the limited number of positions avialible. Lack of jobs does not mean people will not enter the country. Having a huge out of work population is not good.

> I don't think they would come just for the services available since leaving their family would be extraordinarily difficult.

Not even close. First off they do leave their families now both for legal and illigal imigration so your statement conflicts with reality. And secondly... if you are letting everyone in why is it they have to leave their families? The whole family could move in.
Besides that all they have to do is Think that the services will be significantly better than their current situation.

> Just like us. Just because we hit the lottery by being born here doesn't mean we shouldn't share.

You are right. We should share. But that does not mean we should self distruct destroying thousands of lives both ours and the new imigrants.

The previous poster was right. Opening our border to un-restricted imigration would destroy not only our economy and our infistructure it would also likely destroy the world economy.

I seriously do not think you have any handle whatsoever on the un-intended concequences that major policy changes like that cause. I sincerly hope that unless that changes you are never put in any position of responsibility.
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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #87
127. I'm guessing you don't live in a border state.
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
72. Why not make mandatory jail sentences for people that hire "illegals"?
That's why people come here undocumented -- for work.

Stopping the illegal supply of a product in high demand
(drugs, people, etc) is pretty difficult because of the
'free trade' aspects of the US economy.

If US consumers or firms want it; it will find its way in.

With drugs we penalize the suppliers and users, why not do
the same with firms that hire undocumented workers?
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. sounds good to me
that would at least take some of the hypocrisy out of the mix.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. I support that idea but I can tell you that in this area at least it is...
...the Hispanic community who will come out in full-force against this idea. It's been proposed here and there have been strikes and protests and lots of anger over it. They will almost be more opposed to the idea than the guilty employers themselves.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #72
90. Mandatory sentences worked so well in the war on drugs...
There are interesting parallels between the war on drugs and the looming war on undocumented workers. Both attempt to use the criminal justice system as a lever to deal with a huge social phenomenon whose causes go far beyond lack of sufficient punishment. For this reason, both are doomed to fail, but they will create a lot of human misery and act as a jobs program for cops in the meantime.

People have to understand that we have a unique situation with Mexico. Imperial Capital, Earth (the US) sits right across an imaginary line from a huge, impoverished Third World country. More cops or more fences are not going to resolve this problem; moving toward more equality in incomes will.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. "So far from God, so close to the USA"....
And some of the USA used to be Mexico.

The Bosses are glad when US workers get mad at workers from (or in) other countries. Otherwise, all that anger might be focused on the ones who are getting rich.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #90
137. "moving toward more equality in incomes will"

resolve the problem.

And that is what is happening! Mexico isn't becoming more like the US.

THE US IS BECOMING MORE LIKE MEXICO. Not just with the wages, but with government corruption and extremes of rich and poor.
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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #72
128. Sounds good to me.
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Rebel_with_a_cause Donating Member (933 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
77. including himself?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
78. I heard this yesterday. He's trying to gain popularity by attacking the
poor and defensless and making everyone believe they are the true problem with america.

It's evil. It minority hatred disguised as political correctness. It's the last thing he should be focusing on with economic problems the US has right now.

BUlSHit can't create jobs though. He only cares about bringing peoples attention to hate a common enemy(the poorest with least on our soil).. and support him.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. I agree with you completely. n/t
:(
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
79. Just an empty statement with no real plan to back it up...again.
This is an issue that needs to be addressed for security and economic reasons and yet once again there's no plan to back up his grandiose announcement - there never is because he really never has a plan and doesn't mean what he says. Even suggesting the deportation of 11 million people is absurd. The cost and manpower needed would be staggering.

I welcome anyone who wants to come to America to live (in America unless you are an American Indian, you are a descendant of immigrants yourself) - but it should be done legally. Our "border patrol" is fiercely understaffed and underfunded. Living in Arizona I know that you would have a good chance of driving a caravan of semis covered in neon lights and blaring loud music back and forth across the border and no one noticing. More than once we've had suspected Al Qaeda members sneak into the US from Mexico through Arizona and then disappear somewhere in my state. It's a dangerous hike through the desert that can end in death for some and a very hard life for those who make it. They come seeking a better life here but many find themselves barely better off than they were before.

And I see the economic and social impact on my community as illegal immigrants (and that's not just Mexicans) are given aid, housing, and schooling on taxpayers' money while US citizens in dire financial situations are turned down for aid repeatedly. The reason US citizens don't want "these jobs" is that they pay less than minimum - but if the illegal immigrants weren't here to take them, employers would be forced to pay a real wage and plenty of unemployed citizens would indeed want those jobs. There'd also be additional tax revenue because these jobs would no longer be paid under the table and off the books. I refuse to shop at any store that I know employs illegal immigrants (and that information is not hard to come by) and would absolutely support fines for employers that hire them.

I'd like to see a Democrat come up with a plan that helps the existing illegal immigrants become legal citizens while sealing up the holes in the borders. Until we stop the relatively easy access and market for cheap labor, we won't make any changes in this situation.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. How do "illegal immigrants" get aid & housing in your town?
And who are these US citizens who get turned down repeatedly?

In Texas, education is mostly funded by property taxes--which we all pay. Even we renters pay indirectly. And we all pay Sales Tax here. I don't have kids, but I want ALL children in my community to be educated.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Proof of citizenship isn't required for certain aid and housing benefits
Just a mailing address and picture id, which can be bought here for $10-25. No verification is done further than that.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #97
117. Do you live in Tucson?
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 08:29 AM by Bridget Burke
"$85,000 in government welfare given to Tucson City Councilman Steve Leal"

http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/31091.php

Edited to add: In Arizona, it is illegal to give "illegal aliens" welfare. Why don't you report these criminals?

www.wlf.org/upload/081105LURS.pdf

And tell me more about the Citizens who can't get welfare.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. No, I don't live in Tucson.
Proposition 200, passed only last fall, made it illegal to give benefits without verifying citizenship. However, Prop 200 was a hotly opposed initiative as you might guess and is still tied up in legal battles.
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IndyJones Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #94
130. They apply for welfare and social services under multiple names
and they receive multiple checks. No identification is required, so they literally can collect several welfare checks and receive assistance indefinitely.

There are centers where they go to help them with this process.

I'm not saying that they all do it, but many, many do.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #130
133. Got any PROOF for that?
There must be plenty of info out there.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
84. The word is "impossible", Bush...
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American Infidel Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
88. That's Bullshit
Bush will never vote to expel all of the illegal aliens in this country, because the big money behind the GOP doesn't want to give up the cheap labor that they provide.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
98. bye, Governor Ahnuld!
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
103. This is empty rhetoric; even if Bush wanted to return illegals or
control the border, which doesn't, he couldn't do it because he is incompetent. If he really did want to do these things he wouldn't go on a PR blitz, he would just attempt to actually enforce existing laws which he does not do.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
104. No, he's not out of his mind.
It's a very useful plan, from his perspective.

Workers only here temporarily will not fight as hard for wages and benefits, do not have as many children that need to be cared for, etc.

All of this means more profits for the ruling class.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
105. A whole new cabinet?
That's ballsy.*









*Labesy
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mokawanis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
106. This should only take a few hundred years
and cost 800 trillion dollars. President Monkeyboy is really off his rocker.
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JustSayNO 2 Sheeples Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
114. RED ALERT: If YOU are an illegal alien....
Don't be too concerned... he also vowed to rid the Whitehouse of any traitors. We're still holding our breath.
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
116. I am a blue voter who believes only American citizens or those
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 02:51 AM by GetTheRightVote
with H1B should be working in our nation period. Our nation should strive to assist these other nations to develope better economies within their own nations but we should not endanger our own with illegals. Mim Wage has not gone up due to these illegal workers and our lower wage earners should not be punished so that illegals can work and send their money out of our nation. The drain from so many sources, illegals only being one of there, must stop for our economy to regain its strength only then can we help others to help themselves. That is the best long term solution if we are to be good neighbors, but first American citizens then the border nations.

:kick:
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #116
134. You proposing many legal immigrants lose their jobs.
There are five other categories for immigrants who want to work. Many require sponsorship by a potential employer:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/employment...

The H1B's make the immigrant absolutely dependant upon their employer:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/h1b.htm

Yes, let's blame the shitty job market, crowded schools & rising cost of health care on the "illegals." Let the warmongers keep their tax cuts.

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #116
135. "Mim Wage has not gone up due to these illegal workers "

I'd bet it wouldn't have gone up anyway.

The US will continue to be flooded by illegal immigrants until the EMPLOYERS are punished for hiring them.

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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
120. Just trying to get people's attentions off the war, eh?
This is about as impossible.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
125. He's so full of shit, who will the Haves and the Have Mores
underpay for their labor if they can't have illegals working for them.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
129. every time I read this subject line
I think it says: "Bush vows to oust 'every singly Liberal'".

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-05 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
138. He is SOOO full of shit.
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