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katamaran Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:40 PM
Original message
Rare Germ Found in D.C., but No Terror Fears (Tularemia - during protests)
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/Health/story?id=1174699

(snip)

Sept. 30, 2005 -- A relatively rare biological agent has been detected in air filters serving Washington D.C. in recent weeks, ABC News has learned but current evidence does not show any indication whatsoever of terrorism.

The federal government found six air filters around the nation's capital checked on Sept. 24 and 25 contained "trace amounts" of tularemia, a type of bacteria.

The tests were conducted as part of routine homeland security procedures, in which selected air filters from around the nation's capital are checked for chemical and biological agents.


(snip)

More at link.

Interesting that Homeland Security just happened to be checking the bioterror sensors during the protests...
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like nothing.
At most, a bit of propaganda to get the terrorism meme going. But the story makes even that seem unlikely.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
103. sounds like they want to say that some marcher
infected the buildings and now we can have another reason to bring in martial law. :shrug:
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Allan Stagg Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
155. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised by ANYTHING from BushCo
Here's what I've gathered on it thus far...


http://www.sploid.com/news/2005/10/deadly_biohazar.php

Deadly biohazard hits D.C. anti-war protests

A week after the massive anti-war demonstrations in Washington, it has been revealed http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1005/265011.html that biohazard sensors detected the dangerous tularemia bacteria over the crowds.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Just so you understand the implications, here is a brief history
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/285/21/2763 (from the Journal of the American Medical Association) of tularemia and how it is stockpiled as a bioweapon by the U.S. military ...

Tularemia was first described as a plaguelike disease of rodents in 1911 and, shortly thereafter, was recognized as a potentially severe and fatal illness in humans. Tularemias epidemic potential became apparent in the 1930s and 1940s, when large waterborne outbreaks occurred in Europe and the Soviet Union and epizootic-associated cases occurred in the United States. As well, F tularensis quickly gained notoriety as a virulent laboratory hazard. Public health concerns impelled substantial early investigations into tularemias ecology, microbiology, pathogenicity, and prevention.

Francisella tularensis has long been considered a potential biological weapon. It was one of a number of agents studied at Japanese germ warfare research units operating in Manchuria between 1932 and 1945; it was also examined for military purposes in the West. A former Soviet Union biological weapons scientist, Ken Alibeck, has suggested that tularemia outbreaks affecting tens of thousands of Soviet and German soldiers on the eastern European front during World War II may have been the result of intentional use. Following the war, there were continuing military studies of tularemia.

--- In the 1950s and 1960s, the US military developed weapons that would disseminate F tularensis aerosols; concurrently, it conducted research to better understand the pathophysiology of tularemia and to develop vaccines and antibiotic prophylaxis and treatment regimens.

In some studies, volunteers were infected with F tularensis by direct aerosol delivery systems and by exposures in an aerosol chamber. ---

F tularensis was one of several biological weapons stockpiled by the US military. According to Alibeck, a large parallel effort by the Soviet Union continued into the early 1990s and resulted in weapons production of F tularensis strains engineered to be resistant to antibiotics and vaccines.

There is currently an outbreak of this very same disease in Russia, where nearly 500 people have so far been reported ill. http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=24826


Insect bites and contaminated food/water are known vectors of this disease,as is the handling of infected animal carcasses; however, the unprecedented number of cases -- many of which have occurred in the vicinity of known bioweapons labs-suggests this outbreak has "other-than-natural" causes: whether it "leaked" from carelessly-handled containers, or whether it was deliberately transported to several areas.

Back to the article in this mornings Washington Post:

Health authorities in the Washington area were notified yesterday that the bacteria were found in and near the area between the U.S. Capitol and the Lincoln Memorial, where crowds gathered Saturday for an antiwar rally and a book festival.

The notification, which came from federal health officials, said that after the initial detection, subsequent tests "supported the presence of low levels" of the bacteria. However, officials also said they did not believe the findings posed a health problem.

"We pretty much feel there is no public health threat here," said Von Roebuck, a spokesman for the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, noting that there have been no reports of tularemia, the disease that is caused by the bacteria. "We just wanted to alert the medical community to watch out for cases."

Health officials said the usual incubation period for tularemia is less than a week.

D.C. Public Health Director Gregg A. Pane seems a little suspicious about the whole thing:

But he said it was puzzling that the finding was from a day when the Mall was packed with people.

"Why that day? Thats what is not explained," Pane said. "It was just this 24-hour period and none since."

While the Authorities say its nothing to be worried about, they also say ... well, it just might be something to worry about:

Authorities recommend that people who visited the Mall between 10 a.m. Sept. 24 and 10 a.m. Sept. 25 should see a physician if they experience symptoms.

George W. Bush and his handlers were huddled in the Northcom bunkers in Colorado on the night before and day of the massive protests outside the White House. http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0905/262928.html The Sept. 24 protest was the largest anti-war action by Americans since the Vietnam War.

Just three days before the long-planned protests, "above top secret" military exercises began on the streets of Washington, D.C. http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2005/09/to...

The top secret exercises involving the nations intelligence agencies, national laboratories and U.S. military troops on the ground in Americas capital were coordinated and controlled by Northcom in Colorado.

The Washington Post reported on Sept. 21: http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2005/09/to...

Granite Shadow is yet another new Top Secret and compartmented operation related to the militarys extra-legal powers regarding weapons of mass destruction. It allows for emergency military operations in the United States without civilian supervision or control ...

Thats where Granite Shadow comes in. U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM), the militarys new homeland security command, is preparing its draft version of CONPLAN 0400 for military operations in the United States, and the resulting Granite Shadow plan has been classified above Top Secret by adding a Special Category (SPECAT) compartment restricting access.

Further, Granite Shadow posits domestic military operations, including intelligence collection and surveillance, unique rules of engagement regarding the use of lethal force, the use of experimental non-lethal weapons, and federal and military control of incident locations that are highly controversial and might border on the illegal.

The sensitivities, according to military sources, include deployment of "special mission units" (the so-called Delta Force, SEAL teams, Rangers, and other special units of Joint Special Operations Command) in Washington, DC and other domestic hot spots. NORTHCOM has worked closely with U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM), as well as the secret branches of non-military agencies and departments to enforce "unity of command" over any post 9/11 efforts.

Both plans seem to live behind a veil of extraordinary secrecy because military forces operating under them have already been given a series of "special authorities" by the President and the secretary of defense. These special authorities include, presumably, military roles in civilian law enforcement and abrogation of States powers in a declared or perceived emergency.

The New York Times news service distributed a very interesting article on tularemia ... also on Sept. 21: http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/09/21/rabbitfe...

A Cold War bug has become a hot topic for scientists who are trying to understand how an obscure germ that causes a harmless infection in rabbits can kill people when sprayed into the air.

That quest has turned San Antonio, Texas, into a major location for the study of tularemia, a disease carried by several small mammals that national defense authorities say is now a potential bioterrorism threat.
Karl Klose, a professor of biology at the University of Texas at San Antonio, leads a team of investigators who want to understand how the bug makes people sick and how they can prevent infection with a vaccine.

Klose and fellow investigators from UTSA and the University of Texas Health Science Center have secured a $6.4 million grant under a new federal bioterrorism initiative that began in the aftermath of 9/11. Now the National Institutes of Health is pouring millions into the study of tularemia and other diseases that may have been turned into biological weapons by groups or governments hostile to the U.S.

"Sept. 11 and the anthrax scare really woke up the U.S. government as to how vulnerable we are," Klose said. "Anthrax got a lot of attention, but tularemia is just as dangerous as anthrax."

Not mentioned in the article is the established fact that the anthrax used in the October 2001 attacks against opposition political leaders and perceived "liberal" media personalities was produced by bioweapons labs in the United States, and nobody has ever "solved" the attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks#The_a... that terrorized the American psyche just weeks after the attacks of Sept. 11.

---

WASHINGTON DC - Rare Germ Found in D.C., but No Terror Fears

"current evidence does not show any indication whatsoever of terrorism"

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/Health/story?id=1174699

WASHINGTON DC - Biohazard Sensors Triggered

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

WASHINGTON DC - Air sampler detected possible disease agent during protests

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3923145&nav=23ii

WASHINGTON DC - Small Amounts of Bacteria Found During Protests Last Weekend

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=25&sid=581709

WASHINGTON DC - Airborne Bacteria May Have Been In Air Over DC, CDC Says

"Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) notified the states of Maryland and Virginia and the District of Columbia Friday that an airborne form of Tularemia bacterium was detected by air sensors in the vicinity of the National Capital Mall during the weekend of Sept. 24 - 25"

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3923156&nav=ZolH...

Recent news items on Tularemia:

08/31/2005 RUSSIA - Over thirty suspected tularemia cases reported in Sverdlovsk

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/28.html?id_issue=11...

09/21/2005 - USA - Rabbit fever a potential bioterror threat

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/09/21/rabbitfe...

08/31/2005 - TEXAS - UTSA gets grant to study tularemia

http://www.theeagle.com/stories/083105/health_200508310...

Information on Tularemia from the CDC can be found here:

USA - Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) About Tularemia

"Possible symptoms include skin ulcers, swollen and painful lymph glands, inflamed eyes, sore throat, mouth sores, diarrhea or pneumonia. If the bacteria are inhaled, symptoms can include abrupt onset of fever, chills, headache, muscle aches, joint pain, dry cough, and progressive weakness. People with pneumonia can develop chest pain, difficulty breathing, bloody sputum, and respiratory failure. Tularemia can be fatal if the person is not treated with appropriate antibiotics"

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/tularemia/faq.asp

---

Im sure Fuehrer Bush and his cronies have already received THEIR vaccines...

"Takafuji lauded the Bush Administration for its focus on product development, saying, "Its not just doing research for research purposes,
but to really aim that research in a targeted way to develop countermeasures that are effective against these threats." - WASHINGTON FAX December 10, 2002 http://www.aphl.org/docs/Tularemia%20Vaccine%20info.pdf

Lovely, but my trace right now of the military vaccines patent is currently coming up with names like BioPort (who also holds an anthrax vaccine patent,) of which a major investor is the... Carlyle Group (Sound familiar?) AND leads back to the Nazi chemical company I.G. Farben, the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Eugenics and Human Heredity, and "The Rockefeller Foundation...the prime sponsor of public relations for the United Nations drastic depopulation program..."

Just Google tularemia in combination with the above culprits and others and see what you come up with.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #155
158. I guess I just thought of the rabbit angle
I know rabbits can be quite common in some cities (I have one sunning him/herself in my back yard a lot), so I thought perhaps this was all the story amounted to. Add a lot of foot traffic, and you might kick up plenty of spores of all sorts.

But the timing of the find is rather suspicious. Maybe someone was up to something - my first reaction to the article was that they were hinting that some protesters were spreading the bacteria, which tended to make me dismiss it.

As others pointed out, it could also be construed as a warning to people "don't protest in large groups, you don't know what could happen", just to stifle the urge to dissent. I suppose that is what I meant by spreading the terrorism meme.

You are right, with Bush almost anything is possible. We have seen what he is capable of in Iraq, and "not capable of" in New Orleans.

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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #155
162. You certainly did a lot of research.
I hadn't put Granite Shadow together with the tularemia.

The Russian outbreak article is dated September 1, 2005, so it's quite current. What is that website, PHX News? Why is Osama Bin Laden's picture at the top?

Thanks for all the information, and welcome to DU. :hi:
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leftupnorth Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
156. Easily explained
Here you go.
I was in DC for that period of time. I noticed 3 things.

1. Proximity of birds, squirrels, rabbits, and other city dwelling wildlife in closer-than-normal-nature contact with humans.
2. Very dry, dusty conditions in some areas, especially near the reflecting pool and Washington monument.
3. The hot dogs are more likely to give you something than the squirrels.

However, if you do experience anything strange, simply keep this in mind.
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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #156
166. I was in DC - I never saw such tame squirrels
Squirrels were fearless around people. I remarked on it to my husband that it gave me the creeps. To me squirrels are rodents with bushy tails, bad business to feed them.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. That is weird
I am a wildlife rehabber and specialize in wild rabbits. It is not easily spread and to find it in filters is an major anomaly.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. VERY CORRECT, Mojorabbit.
We veterinarians have all been advised in writing and given a poster to refer to regarding potential bioterrorism agents of veterinary importance, and it also covers those zoonotic diseases with bioterrorism potential. TULAREMIA IS ONE OF THEM. This needs to be taken EXTREMELY seriously. I have to look at the cart and check my files tomorrow at work and will see what else I turn up.

I am very concerned for the people who were in DC for the protest. This is not something that has ANY BUSINESS AT ALL being in air filters in a major metropolitan area. This is a rabbit pathogen.

FYI: I hold a BS in Microbiology in addition to my DVM.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. How available would it be if someone wanted
to get the pathogen? I wouldn't think it would be available to just anyone and rabbits as a rule don't just run loose in a metropolitan area.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't think it's restricted
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. What's the incubation period for this thing?
I feel fine. I left DC on Sunday evening and I didn't hang around the mall too much before or after the protest (I was there briefly Sunday afternoon). I'm not going to freak out about this just yet.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I think CDC FAQ says 3-14 days.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
125. delete
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:56 PM by libnnc
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Marleyb Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
118. How could this pathogen end up in air filters?
I wonder if the protesters saw any of these...

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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #118
182. que?
what are you referring to - the clouds?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here's a link to JAMA paper on tularemia/bioterrorism
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:32 PM by kestrel91316
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/285/21/2763?#...

This is dated June 2001.

I think anybody who went to the DC or any of the other protests on Sep 24 should be alert to the possibility of tularemia having been used as a weapon against them. If you went to any of these protests and develop respiratory ilness, seek medical attantion promptly and advise your physician of the tularemia in DC situation so they can conduct appropriate tests.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
66. What a scary coincidence...
Tularemia is one of the bioterrorism agents being studied/developed in the govt-funded bioterrorism labs of Tulane (NOLA) and LSU (Baton Rouge).

A few related links on the Tularemia labs of NOLA and Baton Rouge:
http://www.newsbanner.com/articles/2004/12/13/news/news...
http://bizneworleans.com/109+M5bb1016b13d.html
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001351.html
http://www.labdesignnews.com/LaboratoryDesign/LD0407New...
http://news.surfwax.com/health/files/Tularemia.html
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #66
109. Recent Outbreak Of Tularemia In Russia/Research $ Awarded To U of Texas
from DU'er FormerOstrich:
42. Recent Outbreak in Russia


I did a google news search and was surprised to see that there has been a recent outbreak of tularemia in Russia.

Not only that, a 6.4M grant was awarded to University of Texas at San Antonio to study tularemia. Announced August 31, 2005.

Don't know what it means but it's interesting none the less.
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mallard Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #66
160. Wondering if the NO facilities...
... producing these bio agents for the government may have had their stocks surrendered for relocation due to Katrina.

Great way to discourage protestors - just a splash of fascism and sure Mommy won't let the kiddies go protest if they might come home infected.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
177. Mmm...I wonder if you were *supposed* to find that
and we're suppose to connect the dots...

Are we next going to hear about missing biological agents from Hurricane-ravaged NOLA?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think the comment "no terrorism fears" should be considered
DISINFORMATION. Tularemia is widely acknowledged to be a GREAT candidate for bioterrorism use. That's why we veterinarians have been warned about it.

And yes, I think the timing of their tests is certainly convenient. How often do they test for these things? Where are the filters located? When were those same filters last tested?

I have a LOT of questions about this little tidbit.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Bush left town before the
protests.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. just was going to add that
He of course, had to monitor the Hurricane in Colorado, for some damn reason.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. As if they didn't have
the same capabilities in DC.

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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
70. Didn't all the major
players leave? I thought the WH was basically deserted. Anyone know?
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #70
100. I would love to see the roll-call for just WHO stayed in DC!!
Now I know why noone showed up at the GOP Rally, the ones that did, didn't get the MEMO!!!!
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #100
112. Well we know Representatives Barbara Lee and Lynne Woolsey
were at the march. Rev. Al Sharpton, Dr. Cornel West, Julian Bond and Eleanor Smeal were there too. And of course Cindy Sheehan. If any of these folks get sick then I'll worry. I'm not sick...yet.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
173. But wasn't Laura also on the Mall
for the National Book Fair?

One of the pieces of info above says the tularemia was most prominent on the Mall. The rally itself wasn't on the Mall, although the peace fair was. Still, an airborne pathogen isn't going to confine itself just to the Mall.

Anyway, I was at the demonstration and I'm chronically ill with a damaged immune system so I'm glad to have the warning. And, for the record, I'm feeling fine.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. At any rate, it could be construed as a bit of a "meme".
Attend a protest and you might meet with biological pathogens.

It wouldn't suprise me if the story was a complete falsehood, or something of a scam.
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shavedape Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
62. sounds like something rove might try
he is the master of the meme
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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
126. can dogs get it too?? I had my puppy at the march
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #126
150. yes, dogs are susceptible to tularemia
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rodents and dead carcasses.
Tularemia is a naturally occurring disease typically transmitted by rodents and dead carcasses, and has been reported in the past in all U.S. states except Hawaii.

They probably have mice and/or rats.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Tularemia is primarily found in the SW and West. The vast
majority of cases are found in the rural Midwest. This is NOT, I repeat NOT something that has ANY BUSINESS turning up in urban air filtration systems.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. If a person caught tularemia in the west, could the person
contaminate the air filters?

Several months ago, we had 2 people in NYC with bubonic plague. They had caught it in a normal location (Arizona or similar), and wound up in the hospital here.

We also had someone die in Queens of Hanta virus, but he had contracted it elsewhere.

So, if a contaminated person went to Washington, would he have enough germs to contaminate the air filters?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. IMHO, not a chance in hell. It does not spread from person-to-person
via the respiratory tract as far as I know, unlike PLAGUE.

I think they used it on the protestors. To kill.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. "I think they used it on protestors. To kill."
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 12:19 AM by libnnc
great way to not cause a panic...

:eyes:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. I have said panic is not warranted, but that people need to be
aware of possible exposure to a bioweapon so they can get appropriate diagnostics and treatment if they have symptoms of tularemia. I am MAD AS HELL about this, and do not believe it to be a coincidence. I believe it is deliberate.

I'm a microbiologist and veterinarian. I do not panic over germs. I take appropriate action.

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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
58. couple things...
Only air fiiters I've ever seen in D.C. (I live here.) were in the Metro stations. There is one actually on the mall, Smithsonian, and many within a couple blocks (Union Station, Capitol South, Archives-Navy Memorial, McPherson Square, etc.), in the Metro stations and all of DC there is an extremely bad rodent problem. http://www.terrierman.com/washingt.htm

Might have something to do with it. I went to the march, I feel fine.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
69. I disagree. Tularemia occurs naturally in urban wildlife
Because it is commonly transmitted by ticks, it tends to be most common in summer months when the vectors are most active. An examination of parkland and greenways in the DC area demostrates plenty of habitat for hosts and vectors.

Naturally occurring bacteria, including rare pathogens, are going to show up sooner or later under programs of prolonged, intense, surveillance.

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Link to CDC's FAQ re tularemia
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/tularemia/faq.asp

Here's what I find especially interesting:

Q. Why are we concerned about tularemia being used as a bioweapon?
A. Francisella tularensis is highly infectious. A small number of bacteria (10-50 organisms) can cause disease. If Francisella tularensis were used as a bioweapon, the bacteria would likely be made airborne so they could be inhaled. People who inhale the bacteria can experience severe respiratory illness, including life-threatening pneumonia and systemic infection, if they are not treated.

"IF F. TULARENSIS WERE USED AS A BIOWEAPON, THE BACTERIA WOULD LIKELY BE MADE AIRBORNE SO THEY COULD BE INHALED."


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hallc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
180. While i am glad you are presenting us with info...
Edited on Tue Oct-04-05 10:35 AM by hallc
I am obliged to step in here. I *also* have a BS in micro. Indeed...this finding is not a good thing - however, your comments are only inducing panic. I think we need more information - how many organisms were found in the air filters...one? two? In how many filters was the f. tularensis found (it said 6, but is this correct?)? What way was the wind blowing that day? Have there been any suspicious wildlife deaths? The article that was given is not enough information to be spreading panic like you are. Like most other advice on here, i would monitor your health over the next week or so if you were in DC that day - however, since the incubation period is 3-14 days, it seems reasonable to say that if there was going to be an outbreak due to a bioweapon, someone would have shown up with the disease already. Relax everyone.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Relax. The Book Fair and Laura were there too.
And I'm feeling perfectly....cough///retch.

:evilgrin:
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. good for you
but my two daughters have cold sores and I have swollen glands and a cold sore. I have no idea what to think right now but I'm taking an old RX of an antibiotic I have around.

I find it interesting that they are telling the hospitals throughout the country now. I feel like a human Guinea pig. Which of course, sounds like we are.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I take L-lysine for my cold sores and it's a miracle!
I have taken it for a year or so and though cold sores have plagued me for 40 years, they no longer cause any problems.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. thanks will try that
I got the ole Blistex. However my daughters rarely ever get cold sores and all of us at once? Odd but possible.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Use that new stuff Abreva (works best if used at the START), and
do get everybody on daily L-lysine. It made a world of difference to me! And it sure helps my kitty patients with Feline Herpesvirus also.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Out of 200K+ people, odds are some will be sick in the week after.

Sorry for your trouble, but don't jump on the terror train so soon.

Hope you all feel better soon.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. People need to know that they may have been exposed to a known
bioweapon, so that if they get sick enough to require medical attention, they can advise their doctor of the possibility of this agent and get appropriate diagnostics and therapeutics.

No need for panic, but people should be AWARE of this situation.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
67. Can we all say "PSYOPS" ? Please WTFU fellow sheeple?
IMO there was nothing deadly (save for pollution) in the D.C. air, but it may help the hypochondriacs to stay away from the next Anti-War Protest that is sure to be HUGE given the increased death and destruction in The Middle East.

Don't let the whorish medias continued HYPER-focus on everything but the corruption of the republican party take your eyes off of THE REAL ISSUES. If we don't clean house of corruption, our entire country WILL slip into corporate fascism.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. thanks
I'm not jumping on the terror train. However you must admit that the pattern of conduct shown by this administration to poor, black and disable people during a hurricane. By cutting off needed medical insurance to our elderly and screwing over our military by not supplying them armour does leave alot to be desired.

Actually, sad to say, I'm not surprised. I'm still going next time.

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I agree. Even if this is a deliberate release of a bioweapon, I say
let them keep trying to scare us off. IT WON'T WORK. WE WILL NEVER SHUT UP. WE WILL NEVER BACK DOWN.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
77. OK i'm moderately concerned
4 1/2 days from when I left DC I get an almost instant sore throat, chills, aches, and respitory problems. Sweated my sheets soaked last night too. We need to keep track of people who went to the march.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #77
91. Yours is an example of the sort of thing that need to be seen by
a physician, with special attention paid to the possibility of tularemia. It is treatable but physicians will not normally suspect it or treat for it.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Cold sores are caused by our friend Herpesvirus. Tularemia, while it
can cause skin sores at the site of inoculation such as in transmission via tick bite, and also swollen glands that drain the area of the sore, if you inhale it you get SEVERE respiratory disease.
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hallc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
181. PLEASE - do not take antibiotics
Your swollen glands are most likely manifestations from your VIRAL herpes infection. Taking antibiotics for a virus will do nothing, and not only that, but you could be adding to the growing antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria already present.
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
71. Yeah...next headline: Protestors Poison First Lady....
Ha! Great way for * to get rid of his one pesky handler ("George! Don't!" as he slams down a shot of booze).

This could cut both ways, huh?
"They" want to get "us."
Who is who?
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
98. She's expendable
She's already given birth to the next generation of the GOP losers, er, leadership. Plus her appearing on/with the house makeover crew reminded them of Jimmy Carter and his work for Habitat for Humanity. That, of course, that reminded them that Laura's haircut is too close to Rosalyn's and that Pickles herself used to be a Democrat, ergo she's expendable.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
29. It's a rather convenient thing to try to blame on protesters, too
I put nothing past Rove and those people.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Rove: "Those protestors were stomping around on all those poor
little dead rabbit carcasses..........what do you expect? Of COURSE they found tularemia in our filters on just that one day. Those nasty protestors dirtied up this lovely city."
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Don't think he won't try it if he thinks it'll spin n/t
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
34. Biohazard Sensors Triggered (found in area - DC anti-war protest)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Biohazard Sensors Triggered
Mall Germ Levels Not Likely a Threat

Biohazard sensors showed the presence of small amounts of potentially dangerous tularemia bacteria in the Mall area last weekend as huge crowds assembled, but health officials said they believed the levels were too low to be a threat.

Health authorities in the Washington area were notified last night that the bacteria were found in and near the area between the U.S. Capitol and the Lincoln Memorial, where crowds gathered Saturday for an antiwar rally and a book festival.

...

"Why that day? That's what is not explained," Pane said. "It was just this 24-hour period and none since."

...

Authorities recommend that people who visited the Mall between 10 a.m. Sept. 24 and 10 a.m. Sept. 25 should see a physician if they experience symptoms.


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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Humm, do we have a new mechanism for shutting down protest
marches now?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. I think that's the idea
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smurfygirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. what are the symptoms?
:shrug:
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. and here
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
183. Suspicious?
in the air filters? Sounds like a set up?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
51. Respiratory
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
116. Bush's poll numbers start to drop like a rock because of the protesters.nt
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. tularemia here
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. I just left a phone msg for a friend who marched
He's normally very healthy and he's got mouth ulcers that hurt. Doctors say it's just a virus. I'm convinced he could be suffering from this.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #38
53. Your friend has canker sores, I bet. Inhaled tularemia causes
SEVERE respiratory disease.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #38
73. I don't think so!
Francisella tularensis is one of the most infective bacteria known. Fewer than ten organisms have been shown to lead to severe illness. Humans are most often infected by tick bite or through handling an infected animal.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #73
92. Skin inoculation is the most common way to acquire tularemia, but
if the bacterium is inhaled (and I do not know the minimum number of organisms required to cause respiratory infection) it causes severe respiratory and systemic disease.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. It looks like governmental intimidation.... It's BULLSHIT!!!!!
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:21 PM by mikelewis
More Rove bullshit geared to keep protesters away. It's bullshit. Don't buy into it. They just trying to scare you.

This sort of shit has to be illegal. Someone who was there should file a complaint.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. My friend has the symptoms of this illness
He's never sick and now he's got painful mouth ulcers. The onset was a week after the march. It's too much of a coincidence.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. a week after the march would be tomorrow
when did he start noticing problems?
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Most Important Quote from Washington Post Story:
The germ that causes tularemia is considered a biohazard because it is highly infectious and was tested in the 1960s by the United States as a biological weapon. The disease is treatable by antibiotics but, if left untreated, can be fatal.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. thanks for highlighting that!
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. The problem here, like with plague, is that even though this is a
treatable bacterial disease, your doctor has to LOOK FOR IT specifically. It is hard to culture. Not easy to confirm a diagnosis. So you could die of it while waiting for the doctor to figure it out.

Anybody who went to any of the marches on the 24th who then got a respiratory disease with 3-14 days needs to be sure their doctor considers this disease and treats accordingly

BTW, tularemia is now a reportable disease due to the widely acknowledged potential for use as a bioweapon, so if folks come down with it there can be no coverup.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. I suppose that, coincidenally, Laura started a 2-week course of Cipro...
...on the twenty-fifth.
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rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. I Was In WashDC Yesterday and!!!!!!!!!!!

Last night on the flight back to Seattle I was having a little difficulty breathing. I visited the Capitol, Lincoln Memorial and the Whitehouse.

Even though WDC has had a couple of days of rain could there be some residual leftover?
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vard28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
48. I was there that whole day Saturday...
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:46 PM by vard28
... and I think it's probably bullshit to scare us into not marching again anytime soon. We got there around 10:00 a.m. and didn't head home until around 6:00 p.m. I live just outside DC suburbs and the local news tonight said no one had tested positive.

The symptoms also match just about every one for ragweed and fall allergy problems that are ALWAYS bad here this time of year. Plus, we haven't had but about 1/4 inch of rain in the last month, so all that tree and weed crap is high.

Just an up close, regional observation so far...

*Edited to add that the only thing I might be afraid of was those giant pretzels that were being sold by guys handling money in one hand, pretzel in the other, and wearing no gloves. :9
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I'm thinking bullshit too.
when I start wheezing and writhing from mouth ulcers then I'll start freaking out.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
50. Another thread here with CDC links
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
54. "Low dose" still could be a problem for compromised immune systems
Masses of US citizens have been used as guinea pigs without their knowledge or consent by the feds a few times before this.

Illegal? Not to worry: in the 1950s or 1960s "harmless" pathogens were released in San Francisco to allow our illustrious feds to track the spread of disease so they could learn something about the effects of a possible Soviet germ warfare attack.

Someone better than I at online research could no doubt dig up the particulars.

If the 9-24-05 spike in sensor readings at the DC Mall was particular to that one day and no other I don't think it's overly tinfoil to wonder whether it was already in the dust we kicked up -- or not.

I feel fine except for my intermittent allergies, but my husband is on an immunosuppressant med, and if I imagined that I could bring something like tularemia home in the dust on my clothes...

It was a great march, though. I went with a friend who is a very discouraged civil servant (what Bush did to FEMA he's done to many other agencies as well) and being with several hundred thousand anti-Bush protesters cheered her up no end. Me too.

Hekate
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. IIRC they used Serratia marcesans for that test in SF
(useless little factoid stuck in my brain from microbiology classes)
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
56. Homeland Security Terrorism, poison the demonstrators, the next will think
twice about showing up..
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pox americana Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Sure looks that way.
And even if it's not true, the story should do the trick.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. OR
we could have been test subjects. This has been released now because they want Medical facility to test for it so it then in turn is reported. They can find out how many people were infected, ages, medical backgrounds and other interesting tid bits.

I just looked through my Protest photo's and noticed that none of the cops in front of the White House had protection.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. field testing + intimidation
I was wondering about the police too. Were they put onto antibiotics or is the administration blithely risking their lives too? As for the pro-war protesters, it's a laugh if they think the government they support cares if they live or die.

I hope people take this seriously. Most won't get sick, but it would be terrible to have even one person murdered this way.

Regards the spreading of it, does anyone have ideas as to how it was done? We can rule out dead rats, this was airborn and dead rats don't fly.
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FormerOstrich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
61. Recent Outbreak in Russia
I posted this information on a thread in GD about this.

I did a google news search and was surprised to see that there has been a recent outbreak of tularemia in Russia.

Not only that, a 6.4M grant was awarded to University of Texas at San Antonio to study tularemia. Announced August 31, 2005.

Don't know what it means but it's interesting none the less.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=tularemia&btnG=Goog...
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Ice4Clark Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
63. Signs of tularemia agent detected in Houston air Oct 4 - 6, 2003
Found this article regarding the same biowatch system finding tularemia in 2003. It says it was the FIRST time any of these systems found signs of a "Category A" agenta pathogen considered to be an attractive weapon for bioterrorists.

2003: Low levels of the tularemia organism (Francisella tularensis) were found on filters taken from air monitors Oct 4, 5, and 6, according to a news release from the Houston Health and Human Services Department. But the pathogen was not found on filters tested Oct 7 and 8, the department said.



Was there anything special going on in Houston during that time frame? Anyone remember?
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #63
81. Excellent Find! Ding! Ding! Ding! "What is PSYOPS?"
Alex says that you win this "Double Jeopardy" round. Congrats!

But will the sheeple be distracted by such a sophisticated ruse? We'll soon know.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #63
93. Tularemia is most commonly found in the SW and Midwest, so this
case in Houston could very well be environmental contamination from natural sources. Dry, dusty environment with lots of rabbits?

DC is not the typical environment for tularemia.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
64. Rabbit fever or tularemia
Its the reason you wait till after the first good snow to hunt wild rabbits.

If that's the worst they can come up with, there's no reason to worry.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
65. Interesting that they find this no cause for concern and the Alert level
wasn't raised - it being the nation's capitol and all.

And I do think it very suggestive that the testing happened at the time there were massive rallies against the administration...

I can't help thinking back to the anthrax poisoning after 9/11. We never found out who that wingnut was - but they definitely had it in for Democrats. That centered in Washington too for the most part. Wonder if it is the same wingnut(s) working with different poison now?

I would find it more coincidental if Republicans were effected by any of this stuff.
:tinfoilhat:
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
68. The govt-funded tularemia bioterrorism labs in NOLA and Baton Rouge
Tularemia is one of the bioterrorism agents being studied/developed in the govt-funded bioterrorism labs of Tulane (NOLA) and LSU (Baton Rouge). There were questions regarding any damage these labs may have suffered from Katrina, and additional concerns about the lack of security during that time. The questions seemed to have gone nowhere.

A few related links on the Tularemia labs of NOLA and Baton Rouge:
http://www.newsbanner.com/articles/2004/12/13/news/news ...
http://bizneworleans.com/109+M5bb1016b13d.html
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001351.html
http://www.labdesignnews.com/LaboratoryDesign/LD0407New ...
http://news.surfwax.com/health/files/Tularemia.html
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
72. Can anyone provide a reasonable explanation of how this may have
occurred that is a little less sinister? I mean, is there a reasonable explanation to how this could have happened??
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. no problem,
just run over an infected animal with a lawnmower at each of the 6 testing sites and you will have airborn bacteria at each one.

Weaponising francisella tularensis to create an aerosol is both difficult and dangerous.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
74. from: "how to kill everyone better."
If this happens, get treated fast.


Modifications of F. tularensis
Changing the fundamental nature of Francisella tularensis by incorporating plasmids which encode for antibiotic resistance was part of the weaponization work done by both the United States and the Soviet Union. Strains encoding chloramphenicol and tetracycline resistance in F. tularensis were developed, as well as streptomycin-resistant F. tularensis strains. Vaccine subverting preparations were also developed.
Modifications of F. tularensis

http://www.bioterrorism.uab.edu/CategoryA/tularemia/his...

The good news is that catching it once gives you lifelong immunity.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
75. anyone else sick since the protests?
I just came down with a flu/sorethroat/cold after just getting over the same a week ago.
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whatelseisnew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #75
79. I have 3 friends who went to DC and now have the "flu"
Not jumping on the alarmist bandwagon, just stating a fact.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. there's 4 potentials that were at the march anyone else?
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #80
174. sister woke up this morning with a sore throat
But I'm not ready to panic. She was with me all day and, although I have a chronic illness and a weakened immune system, I'm fine. Then again, I think my body's immunities are so disordered I often avoid something that everyone gets.

Still, there were probably 1/4 a million people in DC last Saturday. And, for many, it was a long and exhausting (albeit uplifting) experience with long travel, strange foods, disruption of sleep schedules, etc. All the things that ordinarily bring on things like colds and flu.

Kestrel seems to have it about right. If you're feeling sick, get to a doctor and tell them you were in DC where they found tularemia in the air.
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #79
105. My son has had really awful cold. Wiped out for two days after.
I haven't been sick.
Hmm, this is interesting.

I'm not a Tin Foil Hat Person.... but ... ya jes nevah know... huh?
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whatelseisnew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #105
120. I have no tin foil hat on either but it deserves cautious attention
It very well may be the proximity to masses of people, the airplanes/buses/trains, the famous DC rats, the time of year, etc. etc. But I consider it worth staying on top of the information and using a measure a of caution.
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lizerdbits Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #75
135. I've got a little something but it's not tularemia
It seems like a normal sinus-migrates-to-chest thing I get a few times a year. Congestion that as it lessens goes to my upper chest with a yucky cough and then is gone. These are not the symptoms of tularemia and since what I have is following the pattern of what I normally get I'm not worried. It's most likely from being around a large number of people and early in the week after the protest I didn't get enough sleep, which is when I'm more prone to get sick, so I'm just taking it easy while this passes.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
78. a little worried
4 1/2 days from when I left DC I get an almost instant sore throat, chills, aches, and respitory problems. Sweated my sheets soaked last night too. We need to keep track of people who went to the march.

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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. BS, you're run down and need some rest.
Don't you see, they would NEVER = NOT EVER do release a pathogen. Why? Because the truly *big players* live in D.C. !!!

You can't be confident enough to keep such contained.

This is Psychological Operations (PSY OPS) used to scare hypochondriacs to "divert our attention" away from protesting any more AND to neglect our continued focus on the republican corruption.

Please stop "getting weird" on us and trying to scare people?
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. I'm not a hypochondriac
and I rarely get sick. And I never get sick as rapidly as I did this time around. The comment about they would never do it because the big players live there is absurd. These people all have access to health care and anti-biotics. I can't afford to go to the doctor to get a scrip to anti-biotics that I can't afford to buy so forgive me if I remain a little concerned and If your not scared of what this administration is capable of then you haven't been paying attention.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. Ok, I'll take your word on it ...
However, if you want to start a "I got sick at the protest thread" I'd respectfully request you do it somewhere else or in the "lounge thread"?

I can already envision the "wheels turning" in the Freepers minds ... signing on and saying words to the effect that "Oh! I got horribly sick" AND before we know it that bat shit crazy Nancy Grace will be covering it 24/7.

And what would the above accomplish? Yes, few people would go to the protests.

Again, the big players - Secretaries, etc. are *constantly* being chauffeured around the areas of the D.C. protest.

Therefore, not even the most EVIL and maniacal folks in covert ops would RISK getting "one of their own" sick to ACTUALLY RELEASE a pathogen.

However, IF THEY COULD START A ROVIAN SCARE, EVEN BETTER!

Damn, please take your concerns elsewhere because this is a clear TRAP - Pure disinformation and PsyOps ... whatever the source.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #85
95. If you poohpooh things, why don't you do it in the lounge.
This is a legitimate topic here. This person's concerns are legitimate under the circumstances.

Never forget the man who died of FL of anthrax. It may have meant only to scare Dems and enemies of Bush, but REAL PEOPLE DIED.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #95
101. I'm sorry for I do not wish to come across as disrespectful...
I have grown up in a far right libertarian atmosphere ... family.

What I am trying to convey is that IF the right wing can get us to "freak" over some possible pathogen and NOT PAY attention to the republican corruption, YOU BETCHA they'll have their operatives sign on to DU and blow this completely out of proportions.

Again, this is Psychological Warfare because such a pathogen cannot be contained "on the street." And "all over" those streets are high level dignitaries that didn't let even a HUGE anti-war demonstration stop them from scampering about D.C.

I live HERE so I should have a clue. There's a hell-of-va lot of pollution and perhaps lead in some of the drinking water, but the "EVIL PLAYERS" would not dare to make one little coveted right winger appointee's ill by releasing ANYthing into ANY crowd.

This is a valid discussion MOSTLY by the sense of fear and panic it is successfully causing in "some people".

I do believe that a number of people are sick, but NOT from a pathogen, but most likely the damn flu - I know it can be hell, but fluids and loving care will help, antibiotics won't do squat for viruses. :(
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #82
88. Come on. That's bad advice.
If you went to the protest, suddenly came down ill with respiratory symptoms, and are now hearing about this, you should at least take the safest course.

Go to your doctor and tell him/her that you've recently handled a rabbit that you've found just recently came down sick/died of "rabbit fever" and you'd like to be checked because you're exhibiting symptoms as well. You don't need to mention the protest or the "attack" in any way.

The absolute worst advice you can give a person who believes themselves ill is to "wait and see". No. Get thee to a doctor, stat. It may be nothing, but then again, it may be Something.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #82
94. Tularemia is not contagious from person to person, so ti is
actually easy to keep contained. Just release the bug when your enemies come to town in big numbers, and make sure YOU are out of town.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #94
107. That's the point, people were NOT out of town ...
And many of the protesters were middle class folks who have fairly easy access to health care.

How many ways can I say - This was planted to SCARE the sheeple into NOT focusing on the republican corruption and NOT attend the next anti-war protest.

It's so obvious!!! - suffice to conclude "Keeping the people in a constant state of FEAR is good for the intentions of this Executive Branch."
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
84. Ok all I ask
is that if I die in the next few days somebody look into this deeper please.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. I promise, honestly, IF (I seriously doubt) but yes IF people
begin to drop like flies of flu-like illness and their only link is the D.C. protests, I will not be blind and consider what you have claimed.

Please just take good care of yourself? IMO even the spooks don't cross these lines (risk getting high officials ill - dead).

Best wishes for a quick and full recovery. EP :pals:
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. I'm gonna believe you because it is less scary
:P

Logic tells me you are right, and logic tels me that my sore throat/cough is the result of 3 days of screaming at the White House.

I don't feel low-energy-sick, just a sore throat and very mild sniffles. Which makes sense after the last week. I'll keep taking my vitamin C and stuff and if I feel my chest getting congested maybe I will call my doctor.

It does seem really odd that they found this, but you are right in saying there is no way they would risk the whole city....Wierd.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. I had serious chills and aches too.
like worst I've had in decades with the flu. sweating gallons when I sleep too. if anymore of these symptoms show up please get yourself checked out megan.
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momster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. Sick
Not to discount your symptoms, but getting together with masses of people in a new environment is going to cause a host of illnesses (flu, common cold, etc.,) to pass among the participants. How often has someone caught a cold or flu from flying in a commercial plane? As for this report, there are a lot of rabbits and squirrels in D.C., not to mention the four-legged rats which are present even in the 'nicest' parts of town. Both my daughter and I were at the March -- arriving at 10:30 -- and haven't had a sniffle.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #90
99. Certainly the most likely cause of folks' illnesses after going
to DC would be plain old flu or colds from stress combined with exposeure to the germs of many other people. But because the finding of tularemia in the filters was a bit of a puzzle to the person quoted in the article who deals daily with these issues, I cannot simply write it off as due to natural sources in the locale.

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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #90
102. I agree, and I think those two- legged rats
In the white house are more harmful. in any event I'm going to keep saying this, get some ionic silver and a nebulizer.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #90
106. Squirrels yes. Rats yes. But rabbits on the National Mall? Don't think so.
I have no memory of ever encountering a rabbit anywhere in DC, in wooded, grassy or other urban areas of DC. I am a native and grew up there.
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momster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #106
127. Rabbit Season
There are definitely rabbits in Rock Creek Park and the Woodley Park area. They've got them wild at the National Zoo, because I've seen them. Rabbits fill in wherever there's a space. Rabbits first, then coyotes.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #106
132. I live 10 miles from Wash Monument. We have bunnies in the backyard.
Healthy, brown, cotton-tail bunnies.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #89
104. Go to the emergency room shadowknows69, like NOW!
even if you don't have funds, they will NOT turn you away this ill. Go and find out ... you may have something more serious than the flu albeit the flu can make us feel pretty damn aweful.
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pox americana Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #104
115. Good idea. You can always say you were in DC sightseeing,
visiting friends, attending a seminar, visiting your Congressman's office, planning a school event, etc. You don't have to tell them you were at a protest.

I wouldn't make up anything about handling rabbits, either, as they might send somebody out to find the rabbit.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. I was there as official press
I don't have to reveal my politics to anyone. Not that I wouldn't unashamedly.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #87
108. I wouldn't go that far "risk a whole city"
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 10:51 AM by ElectroPrincess
but we're talking about D.C. where all the power brokers congregate. Nope, perhaps a little "anthrax" in some buildings and specifically sent to DEMOCRATIC representatives is cool, but to release a pathogen into a crowd, NO WAY!
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #87
111. "3 days of screaming at the White House."
Did it feel like tilting at windmills since Emperor Bunnypants wasn't there?
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. Um...not really
It felt great. Especially the part where I got arrested. :shrug:
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #119
147. Cool. I have to read your thread. :) n/t
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #84
96. Make sure your family/friends know of your concerns.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
97. Here's another link
Sensors Detect Possible Disease Agent During Protests

http://www.nbc4.com/news/5044125/detail.html?subid=1010...
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #97
110. Who are these "Officials" who are reporting this? Would they lie?
Could NBC be enabling them to frighten the public.

We don't even know, with all the corruption in our government, IF this BASIC STORY is true?

Bottom Line: We're screwed until the media does their job.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
113. Enough to make one wonder where the Tularemia (and anthrax) came from
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #113
114. Granite Shadow secret operation on DC Mall is one possibility
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 11:53 AM by downstairsparts
Posted by DUer leveymg at Daily Kos, Friday, Sept 23, the day before the protests:

Don't want to be alarmist about this, but these three simultaneous items together are really jarring.

* First, without any discussion or warning, Bush announced Wednesday that he has extended the terrorism-related state of National Emergency he declared after 9/11.

* Second, a Washington Post columnist tells us that yesterday was the kickoff of "GRANITE SHADOW", a massive Pentagon exercise simulating the declaration of a martial law in Washington, DC. Military special forces and intelligence officers have, in fact, been deployed in force -- wearing civilian clothes -- in the streets of the capitol.

* Third, Bush is going to Colorado Springs on Saturday, HQ of Northern Command (NORCOM), we are told to monitor Hurricane Rita response efforts. NORCOM is the operational headquarters that is simultaneously running the GRANITE SHADOW operation.

Of course, this comes on the eve of the largest anti-war demonstration in DC in 35 years.

http://nj-dem.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/23/102830/522

from this Washington Post article:

. . . U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM), the military's new homeland security command, is preparing its draft version of CONPLAN 0400 for military operations in the United States, and the resulting Granite Shadow plan has been classified above Top Secret by adding a Special Category (SPECAT) compartment restricting access.

The sensitivities, according to military sources, include deployment of "special mission units" (the so-called Delta Force, SEAL teams, Rangers, and other special units of Joint Special Operations Command) in Washington, DC and other domestic hot spots. NORTHCOM has worked closely with U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM), as well as the secret branches of non-military agencies and departments to enforce "unity of command" over any post 9/11 efforts.

Further, Granite Shadow posits domestic military operations, including intelligence collection and surveillance, unique rules of engagement regarding the use of lethal force, the use of experimental non-lethal weapons, and federal and military control of incident locations that are highly controversial and might border on the illegal.


http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2005/09/to...

Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?

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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #114
122. Makes me wonder even more
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #114
131. also had this person not in DC
Laura Bush was not in attendence at the Book Festival
but she promoted it.
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preciousdove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #114
134. You might also want to consider the sudden shutdown of the Metro and
Amtrack. It limited access in some ways. Could it have funneled more people through a certain area or areas?

Not that I have any hard opinons on this just mulling the possiblities.
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
121. Could a Moderator Please Consider Combining the Tularemia Threads?
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:27 PM by Dunvegan
We've got a lot of them and a lot of links and background information, but it's scatterd through about four or five threads now.

There's a gumbo of different information, and in different threads.

It would be nice to see it all in one place to help us sort out the incoming data.

====================================================================
EDITED/UPDATED: Recent DU Tularemia Threads

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
====================================================================

http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/archive/index.php/t...

Tularemia is the one pathogen that has shown false-positives in city-wide air sensors.

Quoted from the Washington Post - 11-14-2003

"Homeland defense officials yesterday partially lifted the cloak of secrecy surrounding a network of outdoor air-sampling sensors in 31 cities that is designed to warn officials within hours of any attempt by terrorists to release deadly microbes into the atmosphere.

*snip*

"It has had no "false positives," or cases of labs mistakenly concluding that pathogens were present.

"But an unnecessary alarm was raised last month in Houston. Repeated lab tests detected the presence of tularemia, a deadly pathogen carried by rabbits. Soon, though, officials concluded there had been no attack.

Instead, the machinery had detected tiny amounts of tularemia naturally present in the atmosphere. Scientists had known tularemia is common in Texas but were not aware that it could be detected in the air. No one fell ill."

(Full article quoted at link above.)

---------------------------------------------------

Earlier outbreak of Tularemia in the DC area

JAMA. 1979 Nov 23;242(21):2315-7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retri...

Tularemia pneumonia in Washington, DC. A report of three cases with possible common-source exposures.

"In June 1978, three cases of tularemia pneumonia occurred in persons residing in the Washington, DC, area. The patients, all men, became ill three to four days after a brief session training their hunting dogs in an undeveloped wooded area adjacent to a housing complex. One of the dogs, which later died, had captured a wild rabbit during the training session. All three men had handled the rabbit while familiarizing their dogs with the rabbit's scent. The men had no other common exposure that was a likely source of infection."

(Edited to say: It's worth keeping up on how this progresses, but to not panic.

Be prepared, be aware, be self-responsive, and advocate in knowledgeable fashion for yourself in health care environments.

It's a stastically curious event since this one short time span...during the protest...is the only sensor reading we know about reporting a positive for tularemia in DC.)

-----------------------------------------------------

Laura Bush was not in attendence at the Book Festival which took plac on the Mall itself, near the protest.

Up to 100,000 meet celebrity authors on Mall

by Alexis Burke
Hatchet Reporter
Published: 9/26/05
http://www.gwhatchet.com/media/paper332/news/2005/09/26...

As the sounds of anti-war activists rose in the background, more than 90 authors spoke to adults and children Saturday at the National Book Festival - just a few hundred yards away from protests.

Organizers said nearly 100,000 people attended the festival and heard from well-known authors such as Thomas Friedman, David McCollough, John Irving and Tom Wolfe. The event, sponsored by the Library of Congress, featured tents sprawled across the Mall focusing on all genres of writing.

*snip*

Hosted by first lady Laura Bush, who did not attend the event but helped promote it, the book festival was meant to encourage reading for all ages. The book festival has become an annual event since its inception five years ago and continues to draw large crowds from all levels of literary passion each year.

----------------------------------

...and a quick, non-sequitor WTF quote from this Thursday, Sept. 29th:

Mayoral candidates face off
Menino and Hennigan showcase political solutions for Boston

By Shannon Barrington
Published: Thursday, September 29, 2005

http://www.dailyfreepress.com/media/paper87/news/2005/0...

Menino and Hennigan also disagreed on Boston's disaster preparedness.

Menino said he worked with his homeland security director to create an "exodus plan" because of the Democratic National Convention. He said his plan focuses on using city resources to keep Bostonians safe without leaving the city by finding safe locations for citizens.

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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. Those three cases in 1979 were not on the Mall, not even in DC
but in the Washington, DC area. The three men who got it were hunting rabbits. There is no rabbit hunting in DC or on the Mall, which is to say there have been no reported cases of tularemia in DC proper up until now.

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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. Point Taken: The Earlier Tularemia Cases Were Not on the Mall...
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 01:36 PM by Dunvegan
...or city center in D.C.

One interesting thing is that we're not hearing from the WaPo this was an isolated case of only one sensor...what they are reporting is that it was found in over six sensors.

Disturbing. Whether it's psy-ops or black-ops, either way.

From the WaPo Story of October 1st, 2005:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Biohazard Sensors Triggered
Mall Germ Levels Likely Not a Threat

By Martin Weil and Susan Levine
Washington Post Staff Writers

"More than a half-dozen sensors operating from 10 a.m. Saturday to 10 a.m. Sunday -- at sites including the Lincoln Memorial, Fort McNair and Judiciary Square -- detected the bacteria, Pane said he was told.

He said the CDC expected to notify hospitals nationwide as a precaution because so many people came from out of town to the Mall last weekend."
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buzzsaw_23 Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #121
130. Thanks for the links n/t
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
128. simulant they released to test dispersio again, is this the stange smells?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
129. FASCINATING article in 2004 San Francisco Chronicle: bacterium experiments
WTF?!! Just amazing.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronic...

The Army used serratia to test whether enemy agents could launch a biological warfare attack on a port city such as San Francisco from a location miles offshore.

For six days in late September 1950, a small military vessel near San Francisco sprayed a huge cloud of serratia particles into the air while the weather favored dispersal.

Army tests showed that the bacterial cloud had exposed hundreds of thousands of people in a broad swath of Bay Area communities including Sausalito, Albany, Berkeley, Oakland, San Leandro, San Francisco, Daly City and Colma, according to reports that later were declassified. Soon after the spraying, 11 people came down with hard-to-treat infections at the old Stanford University Hospital in San Francisco. By November, one man had died. Edward Nevin, 75, a retired Pacific Gas and Electric Co. worker recovering from a prostate operation, had succumbed to an infection with Serratia marcescens that attacked his heart valves.

The outbreak was so unusual that the Stanford doctors wrote it up for a medical journal. But the medics and Nevin's relatives didn't find out about the Army experiment for nearly 26 years, when a series of secret military experiments came to light.

Before the 1950 experiment, serratia was not a common environmental bacteria in the Bay Area nor did it frequently cause hospital infections, Riley said.
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
133. What government agency actually does any kind of routine work on a
Saturday and Sunday? This is either b/s,disinformation, or the testing was ordered because whoever did it wanted it to be known.

I put nothing past this murderous,criminal administration.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Lots of them do.
FAA for one.

-Hoot
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #136
171. They didn't do much on 9-11-01, did they?
n/t
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rodriguez94 Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
137. ok dammit...what the hell is up with this???
Edited on Sat Oct-01-05 04:09 PM by rodriguez94
17 left eastern NC for the rally..so far, I have 1 sick..I don't feel real great, but not really down yet...sort of feel like a sinus infection coming on...but then I always get sinus infections...we will wait and see..monitor the situation..

but believe me..there will be hell to pay if anyone turns out to have been infected with this shit!!
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #137
139. We should file a class action suit if we all get sick
Haven't felt the greatest since I have been back, but I don't think it is the flu.

I admit I did have the fear they would try something at the rally, especially after the Genocide in New Orleans, but I did and still do feel the risk is worth it.

I would go back in a heartbeat. They may just be trying to scare us all from coming back. If this is the case, I doubt it will work. Democracy is too important not to take risks.
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rodriguez94 Donating Member (270 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #137
140. ok..now I am sneezing my ass off...I think it is all in my head..
I am going to lie down for awhile..wake me when this is over!!
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Busshianic Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
138. Psyops or not people who were there need to Protect themselves ASAP
I would stay calm and take some vitamins(non-synthetic), eat some good nutrient rich organic food (the greener the vegetables the better) and go to a doctor and tell them your concerns...
This should not be taken lightly IMO, fear mongering or not its safer to overreact than underreact.
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. Can it be detected by blood test during the incubation stage?
I have read alot of CDC documents, but I wasn unable to ascertain this. Anyone know?
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
142. Information on Diagnosis, Symptoms from eMedicine
From eMedicine:

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/15704-3.asp

Diagnosis

Tularemia can be diagnosed by growing the bacteria in the laboratory from samples taken of blood, ulcers, sputum, and other body fluids. Blood tests may not be helpful.

Enlarged lymph nodes are seen in about 85% of victims and may be the initial or the only sign of infection. Although enlarged lymph nodes usually occur as single lesions, they may appear in groups. Enlarged lymph nodes may come and go and last for as long as 3 years. When swollen, they may be confused with buboes of bubonic plague.

Sore throat and other complications may occur in up to 25% of people with tularemia.

People with either type of tularemia may develop pneumonia. They may have a productive or nonproductive cough and possibly chest pain, shortness of breath, and vomit blood.


Treatment

Victims with tularemia who do not receive appropriate antibiotics may have a prolonged illness with weakness and weight loss. Treated properly, very few people with tularemia die. A 14-day course of streptomycin is effective treatment for tularemia. Gentamicin is also effective. Although tetracycline and chloramphenicol have also been found effective, they are associated with significant relapse rates.

Although laboratory-related infections with this organism are common, human-to-human spread is unusual. Victims do not need to be isolated from others.

Prevention

An antibiotic given after exposure to tularemia is difficult, because the ideal drug, streptomycin, must be given by injection. Tetracycline is effective after exposure to an aerosol of tularemia if given within 24 hours of the exposure and taken for 14 days.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. I apparently only have strep throat
But someone is taking this seriously because public health on the word of CDC ordered the local ER to see me without promise of pay or insurance. Get checked if you're sick. That said I think now that it may be Psyops. They could learn a significant amount about how their scare tactics are working by counting the number of naturally sick gullible fools like myself that went in to be tested. I'll still march though fukkers so you lose.
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. Glad it was just strep throat .......
Hope everyone is able to obtain antibiotics that may need them.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #143
145. Yay! Public health departments come through MOST if not all of the time.
Years ago when I and 21 others were exposed to rabies, the Los Angeles county health department paid for treatment of everybody. There was never any question about ability to pay, they just told us where to go and we went and got treated.

Health departments are WHY WE PAY TAXES. So nobody has to die of contagious disease.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. Take care there
If you don't get better, do go back. I've been checking through everything I can find on the internet about diagnosis. Tularemia is not diagnosible by blood test for the first week. Which explains why they waited a week before letting people know about it.

I'm really sorry to say this when I know you're worried, but it can take 4 weeks before the serum test shows anything.
http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/Fie...

Meanwhile, take heart from some medical research I read when hospitals were trying to find out which patients got better fastest and so made them the most money. They found that recovery didn't depend on the illness and proceedure as much as it depended on the type of patient. The more stubborn and "difficult" a patient was, the better their prognosis. So it would take more than Rabbit fever to hurt the evilDUers here. :thumbsup:
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. I agree, take care...
...the health services allowed several mail handlers to die via mis-diagnosis afer the Ames strain of anthrax passed through their facilities...even though the Congress and all building employees were put immediately on a Cipro regimen.

Graysmith's "Amerithrax" speaks about this:

"... African Americans, were not put on antibiotics, though the chiefly white Capitol Hill staffers had gotten antibiotics immediately. Thomas L. Morris Jr., a Brentwood distribution clerk, was feeling ill too. He had felt the first symptoms on Tuesday ...It struck mostly African American men, like Morris, causing aching joints, a slight fever, shortness of breath, and enlarged lymph nodes.

Unfortunately these were also symptoms of inhalational anthrax...At 4:39 A.M., Sunday, October 21, Thomas Morris made an emergency call to 911. He was short of breath and sounded frightened. He had rung for an ambulance ..."Where do you work at?" asked the operator. "This is the post office downtown, um, Brentwood Road, Washington, D.C., post office," Morris said, then paused. "A woman found an envelope , and I was in the vicinity."

"Morris' inhalational anthrax was confirmed postmortem on October 23 at the Prince George's County facility. He was the first postal worker to die from anthrax."

Morris' HMO had told him on Tuesday, even though he explained that he worked for the Brentwood handling station, that all he had was a case of the flu.

Hope you are okay...not wishing to scare anyone at all...just saying always advocate for yourself in medical situations, and if things change, go back to the hospital immediately and bring a copy of the WaPo article on the CDC press release regarding DC.

Undoubtedly a lot of flu and colds were spread around at the march, or in transport getting there. That's the most likely scenario, by far.

Take care. I march locally, but this sort of weirdness makes me far more interested in finding a way to get from CA to DC and join the next Washington march.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #143
163. Get well soon.
I'm glad you don't have tularemia, but strep throat is a bad disease to have. So, make sure you take all your medicine, and get lots of rest, etc.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
149. Here's link to more tularemia info on Homeland Security site
http://www.nationalterroralert.com/readyguide/tularemia...

Q. What are the signs and symptoms of tularemia?
A. The signs and symptoms people develop depend on how they are exposed to tularemia. Possible symptoms include skin ulcers, swollen and painful lymph glands, inflamed eyes, sore throat, mouth sores, diarrhea or pneumonia. If the bacteria are inhaled, symptoms can include abrupt onset of fever, chills, headache, muscle aches, joint pain, dry cough, and progressive weakness. People with pneumonia can develop chest pain, difficulty breathing, bloody sputum, and respiratory failure. Tularemia can be fatal if the person is not treated with appropriate antibiotics.

***I thought this was interesting - didn't realize that it COULD cause mouth sores. Those of you who reported mouth sores may want to contact your health depts or emergency room to get tested after all*******
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OneAngryDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #149
151. A Connection? Tularemia Inquiry leaves Boston tularemia mystery unsolved
April 14, 2005

Despite 4 months of investigation, the source of bacteria that caused tularemia in three laboratory workers at Boston University remains a mystery, the Boston Public Health Commission (BPHC) has reported.

The investigation into the three cases has led to some new safety precautions for microbiology researchers in the Boston area, however, according to the report by M. Anita Barry, MD, MPH, director of communicable disease control for the BPHC.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/bt/tularemia/n...
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #151
152. it's a mystery it didn't happen sooner
The first two cases became ill in late May, and at that time worked with large quantities of F. tularensis in liquid broth. Both cases reported numerous laboratory activities using infectious material at that time, but did not recall any specific laboratory accident or spill. The third case, with illness onset in late September, reported performing similar activities. This case also reported the use of a colony counter examining open plates of F. tularensis cultures outside a biosafety cabinet or fume hood.

http://www.bphc.org/reports/pdfs/report_202.pdf
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #152
154. Yikes!!!!! What morans............lol
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. Boston case sounds like a typical breakdown in lab protocols....
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #149
164. I was in DC in June doing some lobbying for
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 02:40 AM by Cookie wookie
HB550 and a workshop on electronic voting.

I left home perfectly well and fit but out of the blue became horribly sick the first night. Didn't think I'd make it through the night as I had a sore throat that started as a burning sensation all down into my chest and had trouble swallowing (it was like I was choking). It turned into terrible coughing. I stayed in DC (determined to get the job done) several days before I flew back home. The night I got home I had over 102 fever (my normal is around 97). Missed a week of work, came close to pneumonia and had great trouble breathing. Scary time of it. Doctor put me on antibiotics but no tests.

It was a very strange experience. I thought I'd been exposed in the plane or somewhere between the airport and the hotel to some toxin or something, because it came on so fast and was so dramatic.

Happy to say I'm all well and fine now. Don't know how this relates except the symptoms are the same. Oh, I did have one of those ulcer like spots on my arm, which was also wierd, but that came later and cleared up with an antibiotic cream.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #164
175. might be worth mentioning this to your doctor
Even though you are all recovered, your doctor might want to note this in his records and even do some further testing to be sure that there is no tularemia hanging out in your body.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
157. Isn't tularemia similar to the plague?
I don't want to scare anybody, but I think it is.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #157
159. Paging kestrel91316
Please answer the courtesy phone. I have no idea of the answer.

Thanks.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #159
161. They're similar: "The bacteria that cause plague and tularemia..."
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #159
169. You rang?
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
165. Bacteria probably not the result of nefarious activity, feds claim
"There is no known nexus to terror or criminal behavior. We believe this to be environmental," said Russ Knocke, spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security.

The mission for health officials now is to figure out how the bacteria got there, why they were detected that day and whether they are from a strain that doesn't affect humans.

...

The naturally-occurring biological agent -- which is on the "A list" of the Department of Homeland Security's biohazards, along with anthrax, plague and smallpox -- was detected in small amounts, said Gregg A. Pane of the D.C. Department of Health.

...

"The linchpin is that we're still in the incubation window, so we really don't know that there were no cases," he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
167. According to this article, there are no confirmed cases
(yet) and they say the incubation period is 1 to 6 days, they think it is environmental, and they aren't even sure if it is a strain that can affect humans...


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2005...
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Allan Stagg Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. Im not really amazed...
Its gotten to the point where Im not really amazed at how low the Bush/Neocon cabal would stoop. If anything, they almost daily confirm my worst fears.

The stuff is deadly gone untreated and, as indicated, subtle enough that many - considering todays schedules and the cost of American medicine - would in the least let the symptoms linger a while if not dismiss them outright as some type of bug theyd anticipate eventually getting over.

Tularemias been considered a germ warfare weapon for decades, too. And, simply the sheer coincidence of when and where it was discovered, etc. etc. etc. makes me suspect the worst.

Of course it wasnt a terrorist strike, as the ABC story indicates. Bush.gov is behind it, for cryin out loud! Thats how they could dispel it so quickly. Besides, they wouldnt want to create a panic and imply the Fuehrer let his guard down AGAIN. They covered both bases.

If you read up on the man, vengeance is his middle name, as well as the middle name of those around him and they truly believe if yer not with 'em, yer aginst 'em.

And, further, as pointed out: "An outbreak of inhalational tularemia in an urban setting should trigger a high level of suspicion of an intentional event, since all reported inhalational tularemia outbreaks have occurred in rural areas." http://tinyurl.com/addbv

Ya think, if caught, Bush will claim he brought it back from the Crawford ranch?

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #167
170. Incubation period is 1-15 days. We will know by next Sunday.
I would be concerned even if they found the strain that doesn't affect humans, because IIRC that strain is a LAB-created strain, so it would not be considered environmental contamination and that raises the possibility of deliberate dispersal so that it would show up in filters and cause panic.
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #170
172. I doubt they are out to kill.
I'm trying to think myself inside the basterds' minds here, and what I think is likely is that they would find or create a strain that is less deadly than normal inhaled Tularemia, and use it with the dual purpose of frightening protesters and testing dispersal and contagion rates.

One very strange thing: yesterday there were lots of documents on the net containing the information that the inhaled form of Tularemia had a 30%-60% fatality rate if left untreated. Today I can't find any of those articles through Google.

For the sake of people who are unaware, Google has admitted to censoring what it carries in China to get the agreement of the Chinese Gov't to operate there, and there is reason to believe it is prepared to do the same in America.
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Allan Stagg Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #172
176. Funny you mention it...
Edited on Sun Oct-02-05 04:32 PM by Allan Stagg
Despite what some of the links above I read suggest, less than half-an-hour ago while driving, I heard a report on CBS Radio News that completely whitewashed the whole thing as inconsequential, now implying sensors must have picked up 'someONE' who had symptoms and that it wasn't fatal at all!?! Practically a light, 'kicker' story to the near-end of the cast...
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Kailassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-02-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #176
178. Yes, it's dumb-down time.
Well, if journalists could read and think and do their own research, they wouldn't be employed by the mainstream media, I guess.

For something to register on 6 separate air-filters it has to be airborn. For Tularemia to be airborn and widely dispersed it has to be weaponised and released. (It does not survive more than 30 minutes in sunlight.) Tularemia caught by inhalation is known as typhoidal tularemia, and these two references give the death rate of untreated typhoidal tularemia as 30% and 35% respectively. I have also seen a figure of 30%-60% quoted.

http://www.aphl.org/docs/Tularemia%20Vaccine%20info.pdf

http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/Fie...

I'm not suggesting anyone panic because I could imagine them using a weakened version of the bacteria to do this, but it would be stupid to not check it out if you were there and get sick.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
179. kick
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
184. Tularemia was the "bug" featured on "The West Wing" a season or two
Edited on Tue Oct-04-05 10:57 AM by gauguin57
ago. It was alleged to have been a drill (Bartlett, Debbie Fitterer(Tomlin) and Charlie Young were quarantined and tested), but at the end of the episode, we learned that Tularemia was actually introduced to the West Wing (via a piece of mail that wound up in Charlie's recycling bin).

Art imitates life imitates art imitates ...
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
185. kick
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