North Korea Vows to Drop Nuclear Programs

[tritsofme]

North Korea pledged to drop its nuclear weapons development and rejoin international arms treaties in a unanimous agreement Monday at six- party arms talks. The agreement was the first-ever joint statement after more than two years of negotiations.

The North "promised to drop all nuclear weapons and current nuclear programs and to get back to the (Nuclear) Nonproliferation Treaty as soon as possible and to accept inspections" by the International Atomic Energy Agency, according to the agreement by the six countries at the talks.

"All six parties emphasized that to realize the inspectable denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula is the target of the six- party talks," the statement said.

The North and United States also pledged in the agreement to respect each other's sovereignty and right to peaceful coexistence.

"The United States affirmed that is has no nuclear weapons on the Korean Peninsula and has no intention to attack or invade (North Korea) with nuclear or conventional weapons," according to the statement, assurances echoed by South Korea.

<SNIP>
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/19/D8CN47KO0.html

Some good news tonight.

Lets hope they follow through...

[Charlie Brown]

1. Well, I hope this sticks

We could use more peaceful solutions in the World right now.

I was just thinking, who knows what kind of "under the table" incentives we had to offer to reach this deal.

[lvx35]

2. Lets hope Bush gives them a reason to follow through.

Like dropping his threatening BS retoric, and talking about a positive future.

[longship]

3. I wonder which city they're gonna drop it on?

Black humor...
:nuke: :nuke:

[Endangered Specie]

10. My thoughts EXACTLY!

[ugarte]

4. Gave up nuke program, get to keep nukes they already have...

And if big international aid packages don't come through, just start up the program again...sounds like a no-brainer.

[tritsofme]

6. From the agreement it sounds like they will get rid of their nukes and

allow IAEA inspectors to come back in.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) committed to abandoning all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs and returning at an early date to the treaty on the nonproliferation of nuclear weapons (NPT) and to IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) safeguards.

[ugarte]

13. Then they probably have no real nukes to begin with

No nation in history has given up its nuclear weapons, and I don't see NK as being the first.

[TheWraith]

28. They said they would give up the programs

Which wouldn't include the estimated 5-10 nukes that they're already believed to possess. And of course, nothing is stopping them from restarting the programs if they decide it's in their interest.

[seriousstan]

5. Thr U.N. said they would stop food shipments yesterday. Said NK said

they had enough food.

This is an interesting chain of events, if true.

[demobrit]

7. Utter nonsense

Do we really believe this utter nonsense, anyone can make statements
of what they are going to do and not going to do
Where is the verification that they have stopped making Nuclear weapons ?
How do we know they were making Nuclear weapons in the first place ?
The cat is out the bag , can we really believe anything that is said anymore .

[thereismore]

8. Sounds like a monumental success of the Bush* administration,

doesn't it. I mean, is the preemptive doctrine bearing fruit?

[merwin]

9. Funny that the successes come after talking, and not violence, huh?

[Silverhair]

14. I think that NK may have made the discovery that nukes are useless.

Nukes may be a national status symbol, but they are like buying a HDTV when you can't even get any TV signal at all.

If NK uses a nuke on somebody, the retaliation from the US would turn NK into a radioactive parking lot paved with glass. Can't use them for attack.

We aren't going to nuke them. We have had about 60 years in which we could have done that if we were going to. And for three of those years, we were the only country in the world with nukes and we were in a hot shooting war with NK. So if we were going to do that, we would already have done it. So the don't need them for defense.

So having nukes gets them nothing, and actively hurts them as the expense is a severe burden on their desperately poor economy.

[thereismore]

17. We didn't have nukes in the 50's...

that's a popular misconception. After the stunning success of the Manhattan project that made two nukes which were used, we were on top of the world, but forgot to make more nukes. Fact is, we didn't have another ka-boom until later.

[chapel hill dem]

21. Are you sure? My late father worked for Bell Labs (MTS) and worked on

the Nike "ABM" system (more like an early Patriot system) and said we were popping off above-ground tests (incl fusion) every month or so. My uncle was a guinea pig for one of those tests and was exposed to a blast at close range. Guess what -- no kids after years of trying. This was all 1950-1954.

[psychopomp]

22. There is no excuse for not knowing the facts on this

Here is a list of post-war tests up through the 50's:

The Atmospheric Test Series

Operation Year Location Number

Trinity 1945 Alamagordo New Mexico 1
The Post War Test Series
Operation Year Location Number
Crossroads 1946 Bikini Atoll 2
Sandstone 1948 Enewetak Atoll 3
Ranger 1951 Nevada Test Site 5
Greenhouse 1951 Enewetak Atoll 4
Buster-Jangle 1951 Nevada Test Site 7
Tumbler-Snapper 1951 Nevada Test Site 7
Ivy 1952 Enewetak Atoll 2
Upshot-Knothole 1953 Nevada Test Site 11
Castle 1954 Bikini Atoll
Enewetak Atoll 6
Teapot 1955 Nevada Test Site 14
Wigwam 1955 Pacific Ocean 1
Project 56 1955 Nevada Test Site 4
Redwing 1956 Bikini Atoll
Enewetak Atoll 17
Plumbbob 1957 Nevada Test Site 30
Project 58 1957 Nevada Test Site 2
Project 58 A 1958 Nevada Test Site 2
Hardtack I 1958 Bikini Atoll
Enewetak Atoll
Johnston Island 35
Argus 1958 South Atlantic 3
Hardtack II 1958 Nevada Test Site 37
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/index.html

[Silverhair]

31. The next nuke was ready in October 1945.

Further, Gen D MacAuthur wanted to use a bunch on nukes on the huge supply dumps on the Chinese side of the border. He saw nukes as just another big bomb, although a very big one.

I remember the 50's, and the nuke test that we did. I don't have a list handy, like the other poster, but we popped of bunches of above ground tests.

[thereismore]

35. OK guys, I must be mistaken. Thanks. n/t

[thereismore]

18. I am playing a Devil's advocate here:

Yes, but the talking only worked when we showed them that if they don't behave, they'll be toast. Just like Iraq.

[psychopomp]

24. War with NK was not an option

SK and Japan would have nothing to do with that, you see, and they made that evident. The "axis of evil" comment was not well recieved in this part of the world.

[mike923]

27. The current NK gov't will collapse inside 12 months...

the NK military is going to revolt, as the people in that country continue to starve and freeze to death. 12 months at the latest.

[Silverhair]

33. I hope you are right, about the 12 months.

Kim has such a tight hold on that country that I just can't see anybody being able to gather a group of fellow conspirators for a coup.

Yet, he can't continute to bleed his economy either. Something has to give.

Will we be ready to deal with the chaos when that happens?

[Greeby]

11. Bush was never bothered about NK nukes

They could only hit the three Pacific Blue states :eyes:

[Freedomfried]

12. Attacking North Korea would be a disaster that would make Katrina and Iraq

look like nothing

[Centered]

26. agree

but I wouldn't call it a disaster... it would be a War. Justified or not any military action against a modern military would mean devastation for all sides involved.

[BSDRebel]

15. Look what diplomacy did

War in Afghanistan accomplished unended conflict with Taliban guerrillas.

War in Iraq accomplished unending conflict with Iraqi insurgents, plus the scorn of the Arab world (and beyond).

Diplomacy with North Korea and promising respect for their sovereignty and no invasion of their territory = North Korea agreeing to give up nukes.

Do you neocons understand the math now?

Class dismissed. :)

[rayofreason]

30. diplomacy

Am I correct to surmise from your post that you believe that "promising respect for their sovereignty and no invasion of their territory" would have been a better approach in dealing with the Taliban regime in Afghanistan?

[PRETZEL]

16. Good that they've agreed to this,

but is there anything different in this agreement that wasn't in the 1994 agreement? From what I remember of those discussions the N Koreans agreed to abandon it's nuclear weapons programs in exchange for energy assistance and an agreement from the US not to invade? Is that any different from what this current agreement is?

[plasticsundance]

19. Exactly

After all the bravado and tough talk from the Bush Administration, it has gone full circle to the agreement that Clinton had. We'll see if anyone in the MSM mentions this rather obvious fact. :eyes:

[Centered]

25. I didn't recall

tough talk from the US administration. I remember several headlines from NK about Fire death from above and First strikes.
I do remember an asset freeze threat but not a specific "Hey we are gonna kick your ass" kinda thing.

I'm not saying it didn't happen my friend I just don't recall specific threats from the US to NK. Do you have a link so I can read up on it?

[plasticsundance]

29. Here are some links

But it’s not that overly simplistic. It’s a simple Newtonian equation: Tough-guy actions on one side mean that the other side will get tough, too. The American right loves to bash the 1994 Agreed Framework that the Clinton administration negotiated -- in direct talks -- with North Korea, and it seems clear that North Korea was violating it in crucial respects.

On the other hand, the framework accomplished some crucial goals, such as opening the country’s only plutonium reprocessing plant to inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency. And more importantly, it wasn’t until December 2002, after President Bush named North Korea as a member of the “axis of evil” and took steps that led to the suspension of heavy-oil shipments to North Korea -- a violation by America of the Agreed Framework, but one that you’re less likely to read about in the American press -- that the North Koreans restarted their nuclear activities at its Yongbyon plant and kicked the IAEA inspectors out. The tat earned its tit.

Venus and Mars, Cont'd

The North's leaders, however, do watch the outside world. And it was certainly not lost upon them when Bush, in his State of the Union Address at the beginning of this year, included their country along with Iraq and Iran in an "axis of evil." Now they see Bush is on the brink of going to war with Iraq to topple its longtime leader, President Saddam Hussein.

... The main risk of the North Korean admission lies, as Pyongyang leaders well know, in what Bush's reaction in Washington will be. They may be giving him a justification to turn the heat up on them after he has finished with Saddam.

However, it appears that North Korean leaders have, rather, made the calculation that only the fear that they already possess nuclear weapons will deter Bush from taking major military action against them at some point soon.

Indeed, they may well already be convinced that Bush has already made up his mind to launch U.S. armed forces against them after Iraq is conquered. If that is the case, it would follow that only indicating obliquely but still clearly that they may already possess a nuclear deterrent will be sufficient to keep Bush off their backs.

Bush tough talk backfired on NKorea

Bush provoked Pyongyang with his tough talk, calling the North Koreans’ ``Dear Leader’’ a tyrant, for example, or saying that a nuclear test would be punished, and that the U.S. would not rule out bringing the case before the U.N. Security Council for consideration of sanctions.

When Bush came into office in 2001, he haughtily refused to even meet with officials from North Korea, amid finger pointing that the North contravened the Agreed Framework. With characteristic griping and gossip mongering, right-wing conservatives criticized the bilateral agreement the Clinton team hammered out with Pyongyang to avert the first nuclear crisis in 1994, which by most accounts averted war.

Bush's Fitful Strategy On North Korea>

President George W. Bush on Thursday repeated a warning of the dangers he said were posed by Iran, Iraq and North Korea — telling them they must "get their house in order" or face unnamed consequences. But aides again said that he had no imminent action in mind, and confusion lingered over his exact intent.
.
A day after saying that the three countries formed an "axis of evil" because of their attempts to develop or obtain weapons of mass destruction, Mr. Bush pursued the message, shorn of the rhetorical flourishes, in speeches in Florida and Georgia.
.
"If you're one of these nations that develops weapons of mass destruction, and you're likely to team up with a terrorist group, or you're now sponsoring terror, or you don't hold the values we hold dear true to your heart, then you, too, are on our watch list," the president said Thursday in Atlanta. Those countries must "get their house in order," he said, must not terrorize Americans or their allies, or "the justice of this nation will be served upon them."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2002/02/01/bush_ed3_.php">Confusion Lingers Over Bush's Intent in Tough Talk on 'Evil Axis'

[Centered]

36. Thank you

I'll check them out

[psychopomp]

34. The important distinction

is that the '94 agreement was bilateral (NK-US) whereas this time around all the players are party to the agreement, NK allies and foes alike. Though NK was pressing for bilateral talks with the US this time around as well, they did not get what they wanted.

[rayofreason]

20. North Korea nuclear accord reached

BEIJING (Reuters) - North Korea promised to give up its nuclear weapons program Monday....

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-09-19T162224Z_01_YUE579659_RTRUKOC_0_US-KOREA-NORTH.xml&archived=False

The proof is in the kimchi.

[psychopomp]

23. This is fantastic news

Basically, NK gets the food and financial support that it desperately needs before the winter, gets the light-water reactors it has wanted and also gets the US to back down on the peninsula. As the tension in the region worked to Japan's favor, China and SK get to take away an excuse for Japan to drop it's no-nuke policy. The US gets to have a foreign policy success, though it leaves the China-NK-Russia alignment unchanged.

on edit: the "fantastic" part, if I must spell it out, is that this is a major step towards peace or at least a "detente" in the region. Now, if we could only reduce the nuclear weapons stockpiles in the US...

[Zenlitened]

32. Wow, this time they really can say "Clinton did it."

Isn't this just a return to the Clinton policy the pukes have been deriding all along?

[Matilda]

37. North Korea now introducing new stipulations

whether to get more from the West, or as an excuse to halt the
negotiations I don't know.

From the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4261284.stm