Howard Dean Attacks Bush On Iraq (Rather Interviews Dean)

[Khephra]

(CBS) Howard Dean has jumped to the head of the Democratic pack, criticizing President Bush over his Iraq campaign and tax-cut policies and using the Internet to raise more money than any of the other Democratic presidential candidates.

Correspondent Dan Rather met Dean in Burlington, Vt., where they discussed his campaign, his family --including the limited role his wife would likely play as first lady - the war in Iraq and the speculation that the Democratic establishment, including Bill and Hillary Clinton, are supporting Gen. Wesley Clark.

Dean tells Rather that the former president assured him he wouldn’t publicly support any one candidate.

Rather responds: “You must have people in your staff who say to you, ‘Governor, if you believe that, you’ll believe water runs uphill.’”

Rather’s report will be broadcast on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.

more bits......................

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/21/60II/main579140.shtml

[Guaranteed]

1. Holy Crap

"Dean on his brother, Charlie, who was executed in Indochina while observing the effects of the Vietnam War:
“…He was traveling in Laos with a friend and he was captured by the…Laotian Communists during the Vietnam War and held in captivity for three months and then executed…It was certainly the most awful thing that ever happened to our family and it was terrible for my parents. It was even worse for them than it was for us.” "

I had no idea.

2. Vietnam

Evidence that Dean's family was touched by Vietnam in a way that Bush's wasn't.

[Demobrat]

3. Dean eventually went there

to try to find out what happened. He still wears his brother's belt buckle.

[Rose Siding]

4. Here is an article about that

Legacy could be the White House

By DAVE HART, The Chapel Hill News

CHAPEL HILL -- In 1968, Charlie Dean, one of four brothers of a prominent New England family, supported Richard Nixon in his campaign against Hubert Humphrey because, a colleague said, he believed Nixon's campaign pledge to end the war in Vietnam.

When Nixon failed to live up to that promise immediately, Dean bolted. He was a freshm an at UNC-Chapel Hill that year, and, as the conflict in Vietnam ground on, Dean threw himself into the antiwar movement.

By the 1972 presidential campaign, he had become a fierce devotee of the Democratic candidate, George McGovern. He served as chairman of the local student McGovern campaign, where he led, by all accounts, an energetic and effective effort.

"Charlie was very much against the war, and when Nixon didn't end it, Charlie felt terribly betrayed," said Karen Gray, who served as the financial coordinator of the local McGovern campaign. " Orange County was the only county in the state that went for McGovern, and I think Charlie Dean had a lot to do with that."

More than 30 years after Charlie Dean worked in support of a Democrat running for president with an antiwar message, his older brother, Howard Dean, is himself a Democrat running for president with an antiwar message.
more.......................

http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/messages/2629/2016070.html

[realFedUp]

5. I bet Charlie would be working hard for Howard today...

poignant story.

[shance]

6. wow

Its no wonder Howard Dean affects Americans so much.

He gets it.

[Voltaire99]

7. Dean missing the point on Iraq *and* Vietnam

From the CBS site:

“I believe as president that you gotta be willing to send troops anywhere in the world to defend America, but also I believe as president you never send troops without telling the truth to the American people about why we’re going there, and that is exactly what happened to us in Vietnam. We sent troops to Vietnam without understanding why we were there and the American people weren’t told the truth and it was a disaster, and Iraq is gonna become a disaster under this presidency.”

Oh, please. I like Dean, but what is this watered-down crap?

The Iraq invasion isn't wrong because Bush failed to say, "We're invading Iraq since there's lots of oil there and Israel wants us to do it, too, and Britain will do whatever we say." It's wrong because Iraq was a sovereign nation that hadn't harmed us and was neither capable of nor planning to do so. After a decade of vicious sanctions, in fact, the exact reverse was true.

Nor is this immoral occupation going to be a disaster simply because of the lies Bush told. It is a disaster because we are not wanted; because we will be attacked daily; because we cannot afford it; and because we are properly despised by the world for this imperial arrogance.

Further, the problem with Vietnam was not a failure of candor about intentions. Americans were told precisely why the US was in Vietnam: to halt Communism. What they weren't told is how unwinnable that war was, the hideous immorality with which it was being waged, and the record deficit-setting costs that, even at our post-war boom height, we simply could not bear. Which reminds me: see this week's major four-part investigative story about US atrocities in Vietnam, published in an Ohio daily newspaper (www.toledoblade.com).

Now, Dean had better develop a plan for Iraq more cogent than "telling the truth to the American people about why we're going there". I appreciate his insistence on candor given its absence in the White House and the Congress. But candor isn't enough - what's your policy, Dean? It sucks to be in Iraq but now we're stuck? No. Not good enough. Not good enough at all.

What is your plan for withdrawal of US forces and the return of all of Iraq to the Iraqis? That is what America wants to hear. Must hear.

[Guaranteed]

8. That's a good point.

One step at a time, though. We're still gaining momentum, getting back on our feet. He'll get there, for sure.

[JaneQPublic]

9. Dean's 7-point plan for Iraq Reconstruction

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_policy_foreign_iraq_7pointplan

Those points are:

--A NATO-led coalition should maintain order and guarantee disarmament.
--Civilian authority in Iraq should be transferred to an international body approved by the U.N. Security Council.
--The U.N.'s Oil for Food program should be transformed into an Oil for Recovery program, to pay part of the costs of reconstruction and transition.
--The U.S. should convene an international donor's conference to help finance the financial burden of paying for Iraq's recovery.
--Women should participate in every aspect of the decision-making process.
--A means should be established to prosecute crimes committed against the Iraqi people by individuals associated with Saddam Hussein's regime.
--A democratic transition will take between 18 to 24 months, although troops should expect to be in Iraq for a longer period.

Also, check out his foreign policy speeches:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_speech_foreign_cfr

[loyalsister]

10. What?

Are you being serious?????
Do you think that this war would have happened if the truth were told about why they wanted it???????
That's what Dean is talking about. He's talking about giving people the ability to make educated choices. This includes people who join the armed forces, people who have the option to become conscientious objectors, and even our congress people.
It's not only about morality unless you're a simplistic black and white thinker.

[Bandit]

11. I like the way you think but who else is asking those questions?

At least Dean is asking the hard questions and questioning the "Morality" of the Iraqi War because of false assumptions. You are quite correct in that it is immoral because it was a sovereign nation without the desire or the ability to cause harm to America. Who else is asking Bush* be held accountable? I have not made any decisions on who I will support but I do like spirit and Dean seems to have the most to date.

[Upfront]

12. Can You Read?

As dumb as you sound I wonder. Go to the Dean site and read all about it, then come on back and tell us what you learned. Go for it if you have the balls.

[Guaranteed]

13. The guy had a point...

...and it was that Dean could be talking more harshly about the war. And it's true. But, like I said, we just need to be patient, that he will when the momentum has come our way sufficiently.
Saying that Bush was dead wrong on everything is the knock-out punch. If we can get away with that (without being called unpatriotic), we win. So, let's hold that one back until we're sure that it'll have the power that it should.