SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:29 AM
Original message |
| 2 block-long breach in Ponchartrain levee ..CNN 11:28 PDT |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 02:30 AM by SoCalDem
water has white caps on Canal street.. hospitals at Tulane and another are air evacuating patients.. water rising an inch every 5 minutes 
|

Water has WHITE CAPS? |
Horse with no Name |
Aug-30-05 02:30 AM |
#1 |
 
A hospital official was just on the phone alerting CNN |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 02:31 AM |
#2 |

17th & Canal Street |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 02:33 AM |
#3 |
 
Zoomed out map...Canal on the left....Superdome in the lower-right
|
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:27 AM |
#102 |

Thanks |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 11:35 AM |
#103 |

Sure...btw, it's not 17th *and* Canal...it's 17th St. Canal |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:41 AM |
#105 |

Why the HELL did they not get these people out earlier?! |
FVZA_Colonel |
Aug-30-05 02:33 AM |
#4 |
 
She said that NINETY people are on ventilators |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 02:35 AM |
#6 |
  
They can move them--vents are conveniences--you can take a patient off |
Horse with no Name |
Aug-30-05 02:51 AM |
#15 |
   
Yes and No - if they are a preemie |
Kittycat |
Aug-30-05 11:35 AM |
#104 |
  
I didn't mean a few hours ago |
FVZA_Colonel |
Aug-30-05 02:59 AM |
#17 |
 
It is still dangerous to transport unstable patients |
Horse with no Name |
Aug-30-05 03:16 AM |
#19 |
 
Some considered too critical to move. "Safer" to keep them in a hospital.. |
Hissyspit |
Aug-30-05 02:35 AM |
#7 |
 
All critical care patients |
justabob |
Aug-30-05 02:36 AM |
#8 |
 
Welcome to DU, FVZA_Colonel!! |
VolcanoJen |
Aug-30-05 02:40 AM |
#11 |
 
The hospital patients are the reason why they waited until Sunday |
Horse with no Name |
Aug-30-05 02:55 AM |
#16 |
  
Thanks Horse. Now I see your post after mine. |
AllyCat |
Aug-30-05 10:06 AM |
#82 |
 
Wonder if it has anything to do with Nagin not calling a mandatory evac. |
AllyCat |
Aug-30-05 10:04 AM |
#81 |
  
Uh, he *DID* order a mandatory evacuation: |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 10:09 AM |
#83 |
 
Yes, and moments after my post, I posted right above seeing I missed |
AllyCat |
Aug-30-05 10:24 AM |
#85 |
 
Welcome to DU, FVZA_Colonel |
u4ic |
Aug-30-05 03:29 PM |
#147 |
 
Low Numbers of Nat'l Guard Help, you think? |
AuntiBush |
Aug-30-05 10:33 PM |
#167 |

The disaster is on-going. |
Hissyspit |
Aug-30-05 02:34 AM |
#5 |
 
Our president is eating cake and raising campaign moolah |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 02:37 AM |
#9 |

c'mon. dont be so harsh on bush |
paagal kutta |
Aug-30-05 02:41 AM |
#12 |
 
My Republican cuz really believes that the gov't shouldn't be expected... |
tedzbear |
Aug-31-05 11:27 AM |
#181 |

Doesn't make McCain look great either, but for Bush, it's a "My Pet Goat" |
Nothing Without Hope |
Aug-30-05 05:20 PM |
#152 |

Deploying the reserves ... |
chicagiana |
Aug-30-05 09:26 PM |
#158 |
 
I didn't think of deliberate destruction of the levee, but that's sure |
Nothing Without Hope |
Aug-30-05 09:46 PM |
#162 |

Put his ass on that tricycle and let him put |
goclark |
Aug-31-05 12:24 AM |
#175 |

Saturated levees can breech at any time. |
Porcupine |
Aug-30-05 02:38 AM |
#10 |
 
I would think there are going to be more breeches. |
Hissyspit |
Aug-30-05 02:46 AM |
#13 |
 
Depends on whether or not its a real levee |
markus |
Aug-30-05 09:34 AM |
#68 |
 
yep i remember |
shanti |
Aug-30-05 12:27 PM |
#130 |
 
and of course Bush slashed the funds for hurricane protection and disaster |
Nothing Without Hope |
Aug-30-05 05:22 PM |
#153 |

i was in the corps of engineers and at grand teton when it collapsed |
kodi |
Aug-30-05 02:46 AM |
#14 |

Aw, Crap! This could get worse than 9/11. Don't everybody go praying |
Wizard777 |
Aug-30-05 03:01 AM |
#18 |

i'm in Memphis, looking at the remains of my city on a motel TV. |
Swamp Rat |
Aug-30-05 03:37 AM |
#20 |
 
cnn just said that the hospitals are not evacuating at this time--water |
rodeodance |
Aug-30-05 04:03 AM |
#22 |
  
yes, but people are in attics, in pitch black night. |
Swamp Rat |
Aug-30-05 04:25 AM |
#24 |
 
never has dawn seemed so far away |
NorthernSpy |
Aug-30-05 04:33 AM |
#26 |
 
I'm just sick.... |
GumboYaYa |
Aug-30-05 07:19 AM |
#54 |
 
SR, where did your mother stay? |
peacebuzzard |
Aug-30-05 09:13 AM |
#58 |
 
I am SOOOOOO glad you decided to leave |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 09:19 AM |
#59 |
  
From what I am understanding, his mother is in the Quarter and his dogs, |
peacebuzzard |
Aug-30-05 09:25 AM |
#65 |
 
Oh no.. I thought they all went to memphis.. |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 09:32 AM |
#67 |
 
Swamp Rat. |
intheflow |
Aug-30-05 09:25 AM |
#64 |
 
I am so sorry for you and all of the others. |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 10:39 AM |
#89 |
 
Swamp Rat, I'm glad you're ok |
yardwork |
Aug-30-05 05:44 PM |
#156 |
 
Very sorry to hear about your situation SwampRat, and also the many others |
FourStarDemocrat |
Aug-30-05 10:09 PM |
#163 |
 
I'm so sorry Swamp Rat..... |
halobeam |
Aug-30-05 10:30 PM |
#166 |

I guess this is the thing we were all afraid of |
NorthernSpy |
Aug-30-05 04:00 AM |
#21 |

story from Bloomberg: |
NorthernSpy |
Aug-30-05 04:21 AM |
#23 |
 
And those are just the ones WITH WORKING CELL PHONES. How many |
Nothing Without Hope |
Aug-30-05 05:28 PM |
#154 |

I thought the cells were down ... |
chicagiana |
Aug-30-05 09:32 PM |
#160 |

a more detailed story from CNN: |
NorthernSpy |
Aug-30-05 04:31 AM |
#25 |

New Orleans Levee has been breached... two block long breach. (CNN) |
speedoo |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#27 |
 
now that will be fun at this time, really |
nadinbrzezinski |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#28 |
 
oh SHIT |
kgfnally |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#29 |
 
oh holy shit..that's not good |
nothingshocksmeanymore |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#30 |
 
this is really really big. |
lvx35 |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#31 |
  
New Orleans will NEVER recover 100% ... |
chicagiana |
Aug-30-05 09:37 PM |
#161 |
 
Damn it... I thought your title was "No breach" |
expatriot |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#32 |
  
Someone else posted after this one and abbreviated New orleans |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 09:20 AM |
#61 |
 
The mayor said this several hours ago |
jobycom |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#33 |
  
hard to tell |
Kenroy |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#34 |
  
Same one. n/t |
Garbo 2004 |
Aug-30-05 05:29 AM |
#50 |
  
Mayor has full commitment from Feds |
screembloodymurder |
Aug-30-05 08:11 AM |
#55 |
 
god! |
Swamp Rat |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#35 |
  
I'm so sorry.... |
renate |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#39 |
   
I am also so sorry, will pray, since Bush won't do anything and |
Trevelyan |
Aug-31-05 01:57 PM |
#182 |
  
Swamp Rat, so sorry! |
colorado_ufo |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#40 |
   
She couldn't because of her SO, but they are in the Monteleone Hotel |
Swamp Rat |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#42 |
  
Lo siento mucho Swamp... |
arcos |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#44 |
   
gracias hermano |
Swamp Rat |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#45 |
  
.... |
arcos |
Aug-30-05 05:04 AM |
#46 |
  
SR, I said this B4--my casa is your casa. |
peacebuzzard |
Aug-30-05 09:45 AM |
#73 |
  
here's one reason to take heart: |
NorthernSpy |
Aug-30-05 05:07 AM |
#47 |
   
she's on the third floor last I spoke with her... 32 hours ago. n/t |
Swamp Rat |
Aug-30-05 05:12 AM |
#48 |
  
Here's hoping for the best, SR. |
Zhade |
Aug-30-05 06:01 AM |
#51 |
  
Yo tambien estoy pensando en ti |
alarcojon |
Aug-30-05 08:24 AM |
#57 |
  
At least the Montleone is high enough to be safe for now. |
GumboYaYa |
Aug-30-05 11:24 AM |
#99 |
  
We are here for you. |
myrna minx |
Aug-30-05 09:19 AM |
#60 |
  
OMG, |
peacebuzzard |
Aug-30-05 09:24 AM |
#62 |
  
Swamp Rat, I'm so, so sorry to hear that |
LynzM |
Aug-30-05 10:43 AM |
#92 |
  
Swamp |
Biased Liberal Media |
Aug-31-05 02:25 AM |
#177 |
 
CNN is talking about it now... |
Andromeda |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#36 |
  
The breach in the levee is two blocks long... |
Andromeda |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#37 |
 
my aunt and uncle are in either the hospital or the Dome... |
NorthernSpy |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#38 |

My historian hubbie has a solution |
juajen |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#41 |

It can never be said enough... |
Qibing Zero |
Aug-30-05 04:57 AM |
#43 |
 
Welcome to DU Qibing Zero |
donheld |
Aug-30-05 02:02 PM |
#143 |

Wouldn't work here. No ocean access for large ships and lake too shallow. |
artemisia1 |
Aug-30-05 06:15 AM |
#52 |

As I said in the other thread, this isn't a shipping canal... |
DRoseDARs |
Aug-30-05 06:57 AM |
#53 |

No, but a big ass tow boat could put an empty barge in the mouth |
markus |
Aug-30-05 09:36 AM |
#69 |

my mother called me last night |
Scooter24 |
Aug-30-05 05:25 AM |
#49 |
 
I just heard that they are moving patients to the Superdome |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 10:27 AM |
#86 |

photo of levee breach - 17th St Canal near Lakeshore Park in Metarie |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 08:22 AM |
#56 |
 
Oh god. |
myrna minx |
Aug-30-05 09:24 AM |
#63 |
 
Here's a satellite view of the same area |
QuettaKid |
Aug-30-05 09:32 AM |
#66 |

great link |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 09:41 AM |
#72 |

Thanks |
Junkdrawer |
Aug-30-05 11:19 AM |
#97 |

Here are two more maps to give an idea of the vicinity to downtown |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:45 AM |
#111 |

How horrible! :( |
atommom |
Aug-30-05 09:38 AM |
#70 |

Scarily, this isn't the worst news |
northzax |
Aug-30-05 09:39 AM |
#71 |

New levee break. Water rising a foot an hour in NO |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#74 |
 
New or same? |
Teaser |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#75 |
  
I'm pretty sure it's the same one |
maddezmom |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#76 |
 
Not a new one. This is the same one from yesterday. nt |
jobycom |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#77 |
 
According to an unconfirmed comment... |
GoBlue |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#78 |
  
Not Soledad...Chad Meyers..meteorologist: Did YOU follow the link? |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#80 |
 
There are two breaches: |
Minstrel Boy |
Aug-30-05 09:48 AM |
#79 |
  
Story seems to be downplayed |
ramapo |
Aug-30-05 10:19 AM |
#84 |
 
The water will stop when it rises to sea level in the city |
htuttle |
Aug-30-05 10:30 AM |
#87 |
 
not sea level |
northzax |
Aug-30-05 10:40 AM |
#90 |
 
Hmm...not sure about that |
htuttle |
Aug-30-05 11:26 AM |
#101 |
 
no, there is a levee between ponchartrain and the Gulf |
northzax |
Aug-30-05 11:50 AM |
#114 |
 
No, there is not |
markus |
Aug-30-05 12:01 PM |
#121 |
 
WDSU reporting 80% of City underwater |
brooklynite |
Aug-30-05 10:33 AM |
#88 |

Holy cow... I didnt think those levees would breech... |
Endangered Specie |
Aug-30-05 10:41 AM |
#91 |

Water still rising...several breeches in the South Shore levee. WWLTV |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 11:00 AM |
#93 |
 
SHIT.. that sounds ominous.. |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 11:00 AM |
#94 |

Breaches feed upon themselves |
ramapo |
Aug-30-05 11:02 AM |
#95 |

WWLTV is doing a great job..they are back streaming at: |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 11:02 AM |
#96 |

Direct link for WMP |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:25 AM |
#100 |

Sounds out of control |
ramapo |
Aug-30-05 11:42 AM |
#106 |

1 - 2' of water in Downtown N.O.; Canal St. is a canal; water lapping F.Q. |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:44 AM |
#109 |

So is it assumed now that the water in the lake |
kenny blankenship |
Aug-30-05 11:21 AM |
#98 |
 
If The Levee Breach Invert Has Eroded To Below The Level Of The Lake |
loindelrio |
Aug-30-05 11:44 AM |
#110 |

Lack of Manpower seems to be a big problem for the rescue and recovery |
kenny blankenship |
Aug-30-05 12:02 PM |
#122 |

Where are the National Guard??? |
Francine Frensky |
Aug-30-05 01:05 PM |
#136 |
 
the irony is deadly, ain't it? eom |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 01:14 PM |
#137 |

cnn: reporter by phone from Biloxi |
kenny blankenship |
Aug-30-05 01:41 PM |
#141 |

Yes, must not embarrass Our Fearless Leader. Who stole and has been |
Nothing Without Hope |
Aug-30-05 05:35 PM |
#155 |

WWL reporting reporting water still rising, and pouring fast in 9th ward |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:42 AM |
#107 |

Water level rising in NOLA...rising fast in the lower 9th ward...WWLTV |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 11:42 AM |
#108 |
 
They are hoping to drop sandbags in the breech on the 17th St Canal. |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 11:46 AM |
#112 |

Will that work? |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 11:48 AM |
#113 |

3,000 sandbags is the plan. |
Minstrel Boy |
Aug-30-05 11:50 AM |
#116 |
 
They might actually enlarge it if they miss |
SoCalDem |
Aug-30-05 11:51 AM |
#118 |

Very true. |
Neshanic |
Aug-30-05 11:55 AM |
#119 |

If they don't plug it they may as well enlarge it |
kenny blankenship |
Aug-30-05 12:04 PM |
#123 |

It's a last ditch attempt |
Winston702 |
Aug-30-05 12:12 PM |
#124 |

WWL Just Said They Are Going To Drop Sandbags From Helicopters |
loindelrio |
Aug-30-05 11:50 AM |
#115 |

Helicopters to help seal breaches |
bill |
Aug-30-05 11:51 AM |
#117 |
 
That's A Bit Less Than 1 CY Per Sandbag |
loindelrio |
Aug-30-05 11:56 AM |
#120 |
  
I think these guys are smoking something |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 12:21 PM |
#127 |
 
Good post |
H5N1 |
Aug-30-05 12:36 PM |
#133 |
 
We Need To Move In Some LCAC's. There Has To Be Some |
loindelrio |
Aug-30-05 12:44 PM |
#134 |
  
A day is too late............ |
ClintonTyree |
Aug-30-05 01:37 PM |
#140 |
 
I Wish I Could Close It This Instant |
loindelrio |
Aug-30-05 01:51 PM |
#142 |
 
Good points, all. |
Karenina |
Aug-30-05 03:56 PM |
#149 |
 
human nature = rebuilding |
kskold |
Aug-30-05 05:51 PM |
#157 |
 
But can barges navigate the canal |
RPM_BU |
Aug-30-05 12:53 PM |
#135 |
  
I doubt it. |
mccoyn |
Aug-30-05 03:25 PM |
#146 |
 
The Media May Have Got It Wrong. I Saw Something That Said 'Flying In' |
loindelrio |
Aug-30-05 01:19 PM |
#138 |
 
OK, that makes more sense - eom |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 03:23 PM |
#145 |
 
A bit reminiscent of Chernobyl |
daleo |
Aug-30-05 12:13 PM |
#125 |
 
where are the sandbag teams? n/t |
rfkrfk |
Aug-30-05 12:17 PM |
#126 |
  
they're in Iraq, along with all the sand... |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 12:27 PM |
#129 |
 
Helicopters and Sandbags NEVER GOT THERE |
KeepItReal |
Aug-30-05 09:28 PM |
#159 |

just heard they are going to drop sand bags from helicopters |
maddezmom |
Aug-30-05 12:27 PM |
#128 |
 
I think helo approach is entirely impractical - see #127 above |
Tin Man |
Aug-30-05 12:29 PM |
#131 |

thanks for the post |
maddezmom |
Aug-30-05 12:35 PM |
#132 |

Great info on the flooding from LSU shown on WWLTV |
mom cat |
Aug-30-05 01:34 PM |
#139 |
 
LSU Website not responding... |
LeftHander |
Aug-30-05 03:53 PM |
#148 |

BIG picture of the 17th St. Canal breech: |
Roland99 |
Aug-30-05 02:03 PM |
#144 |
 
OMG, what a horrible mess |
spooked911 |
Aug-30-05 04:21 PM |
#150 |
 
Thanks for the pic. eom |
Ilsa |
Aug-30-05 04:29 PM |
#151 |

Times-Picayune: Crews frantically work to fix breach |
brooklynite |
Aug-30-05 10:11 PM |
#164 |

Another amateur suggestion |
ThoughtCriminal |
Aug-30-05 10:22 PM |
#165 |

CNN: Notice the FIRST Thing On the List |
AuntiBush |
Aug-30-05 10:37 PM |
#168 |

I posted this question on a Yahoo board and did not get an answer |
ihelpu2see |
Aug-30-05 10:45 PM |
#169 |
 
I heard tonight that approximately 40% are in Iraq. n/t |
Minstrel Boy |
Aug-30-05 10:47 PM |
#170 |

Thanks... nt |
ihelpu2see |
Aug-30-05 10:50 PM |
#171 |

Is it too late for the snad bags to work? |
sunnystarr |
Aug-30-05 10:56 PM |
#172 |

busy the papers w/ letter to the editrs: here's mine:$for war=no$for peope |
chomskysright |
Aug-30-05 11:53 PM |
#173 |

submitted to Times-Picayne Forum board: u can too |
chomskysright |
Aug-31-05 12:04 AM |
#174 |
 
chomskysright's right. as with fires in CA in 2003 Bush shorted state |
confludemocrat |
Aug-31-05 10:52 AM |
#180 |

why are there no floodgates, on this canal? |
rfkrfk |
Aug-31-05 12:40 AM |
#176 |

Mayor of NOLA said in a news conference that someone dropped the ball |
mom cat |
Aug-31-05 06:06 AM |
#178 |

Gee.. do ya think??? |
SoCalDem |
Aug-31-05 09:21 AM |
#179 |
Horse with no Name
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:30 AM
Response to Original message |
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
| 2. A hospital official was just on the phone alerting CNN |
 |
she said that the state police were "trying" to reach them and another hospital nearby
|
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:33 AM
Response to Original message |
 |
is the address closest to the breach
|
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
| 102.
Zoomed out map...Canal on the left....Superdome in the lower-right
|
 |
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.976052,-90.105572&spn... That big gray area in the upper left area (just east of the interstate) is a huge cemetery. And, on this map, the area in the middle is the French Quarter (Bourbon St. and the areas around it) http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.957946,-90.066948&spn...
|
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #102 |
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #103 |
| 105. Sure...btw, it's not 17th *and* Canal...it's 17th St. Canal |
 |
 Canal is down by the French Quarter.
|
FVZA_Colonel
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:33 AM
Response to Original message |
| 4. Why the HELL did they not get these people out earlier?! |
 |
It's bad enough that a number of people couldn't get out of the city due to lack of transportation, but hospital patients were left behind?!
|
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 6. She said that NINETY people are on ventilators |
 |
How can they even move them..? and the emergency power source for the hospital is going to be compromised soon because of the water pouring into the hospital.
|
Horse with no Name
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
| 15. They can move them--vents are conveniences--you can take a patient off |
 |
The emergency power sources in the hospital generally run only basic needs. Patients on vents are bagged manually (by hand). It isn't hard to do but it is very tedious and requires tremendous manpower. Hopefully they have some of the portable vents that were battery operated. These patients are fragile. Some will lose their lives from being moved because they are not stable. This is an ugly situation that will only get uglier.
|
Kittycat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
| 104. Yes and No - if they are a preemie |
 |
You face more complications with bagging a patient. Too much air gets into the stomach, and can cause trouble with the bowels (preforation, etc).
|
FVZA_Colonel
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
| 17. I didn't mean a few hours ago |
 |
I had meant as Katrina was still approaching the city, when there would have been time to travel via roadway.
|
Horse with no Name
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
| 19. It is still dangerous to transport unstable patients |
 |
Day or Night. Air or Ground. The other nightmare is finding somewhere to take them. I'm guessing Houston, Longview, Tyler or Shreveport. Those would be the best places at this time.
|
Hissyspit
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 7. Some considered too critical to move. "Safer" to keep them in a hospital.. |
justabob
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 8. All critical care patients |
 |
Tulane Hospital caller said almost all were very seriously ill people....Very difficult to transport in the best of times. I can understand them not doing it until they have to, but now it will be MUCH more difficult
|
VolcanoJen
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 11. Welcome to DU, FVZA_Colonel!! |
Horse with no Name
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 16. The hospital patients are the reason why they waited until Sunday |
 |
to call for a mandatory evac. They had to consult with their attorneys to make sure they could be exempted. In reality, hospitals are generally the strongest buildings in the city. The staff is extensively trained for emergencies. The problem is that moving critically unstable patients increases the chance of death dramatically. That's why they tried to keep them where they were and hope for the best. It was in the best interests of the patients. Now it looks like they will have to move them--you can expect many of these most critically ill patients not to make the transport. It started out as a no-win situation and only got worse. 
|
AllyCat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
| 82. Thanks Horse. Now I see your post after mine. |
 |
You answered my question.
|
AllyCat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 81. Wonder if it has anything to do with Nagin not calling a mandatory evac. |
 |
Apparently, not calling a mandatory evac and making it "voluntary" was to save hospitals from having to evacuate. Did he make the evacuation "voluntary" the whole time preceding the storm or did he ever change his mind? Unbelieveable. Even if the Mayor didn't say anything, as a hospital administrator, wouldn't you say "Boy, I think we need to move people out"?
|
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #81 |
| 83. Uh, he *DID* order a mandatory evacuation: |
 |
New Orleans mayor calls evacuation order for city; Katrina a Category 5 storm http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.... August 28, 2005
Mayor Ray Nagin ordered an immediate mandatory evacuation Sunday for all of New Orleans, a city of 485,000 people, as Hurricane Katrina bore down with 260-kilometre-per-hour wind. Ten refuges of last resort were set up including the Superdome.
"There doesn't seem to be any relief in sight," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said, joining the mayor at a news conference.
The mayor called the order unprecedented, but said Katrina's storm surge would likely top the city's protective levees. I was even watching the video of his press conference when he ordered it.
|
AllyCat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #83 |
| 85. Yes, and moments after my post, I posted right above seeing I missed |
 |
it. It's okay. Deepest apologies for not being in the know. That's why I asked the question in my post.
|
u4ic
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 147. Welcome to DU, FVZA_Colonel |
AuntiBush
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
| 167. Low Numbers of Nat'l Guard Help, you think? |
 |
Think about it. And "W" won't be back till tomorrow. WH does not care.
|
Hissyspit
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:34 AM
Response to Original message |
| 5. The disaster is on-going. |
 |
Despite what Bush is up to, despite what the Pentagon says about adequate National Guard units.
|
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
| 9. Our president is eating cake and raising campaign moolah |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 02:37 AM by SoCalDem
with the rich folks at Coronado   Never fear though, in about a week, when it's "safer", he'll climb up on a pile of rubble and his shills in the audience will feed him some "inspiring" lines...and he'll be a Heeeee-ro again.. maybe his approval will inch all the way up to 38% 
|
Bhaisahab
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
| 12. c'mon. dont be so harsh on bush |
 |
he did urge americans to "pray" for those in the hurricane's path. what more do ya expect him to do?!!
|
tedzbear
(1000+ posts)
|
Wed Aug-31-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
| 181. My Republican cuz really believes that the gov't shouldn't be expected... |
 |
...to handle this situation and the good people of NO will have to come together and help themselves.
I didn't even try to argue with him...
|
Nothing Without Hope
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
| 152. Doesn't make McCain look great either, but for Bush, it's a "My Pet Goat" |
 |
moment. Worse, because there he is in a posh setting, eating cake and jollying up the rich GOP donors. His priorities are crystal clear.
And the National Guard, OUR National Guard, who should be involved in disaster relief - who knows, they might even have been able to shore up those levees - are off being cannon fodder in Bush's immoral war of choice. All those thousands of Guards with family in LA, AL, MS - what frantic fear and frustration they must be feeling.
But Commander Cuckoobananas has cake to serve.
|
chicagiana
(993 posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #152 |
| 158. Deploying the reserves ... |
 |
Bush hasn't learned much about how a city acts when the authorities leave has he??? The looting in New Orleans is out of control. They should have had Army units ready to deploy to keep order.
Now that the situation is out of control, they'll just have to wait until all the store shelves are empty. If people want to protect their houses, they'll have to return with flat bottom boats and semi-automatic weapons.
BTW, does anyone else think it's suspicious that the levees didn't break until AFTER the hurricane passed and it was clear the storm surge was not going to swamp the city. It would probably only take a couple of sticks of dynamite to get those things flowing. Seems like someone wanted Bush to have another pile of debris to climb on top of.
The hurricane had passed and the city was safe from catastrophe. Than overnight the levies broke.
|
Nothing Without Hope
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #158 |
| 162. I didn't think of deliberate destruction of the levee, but that's sure |
 |
possible. No one was there to see.
I HAVE been wondering why Bush looks so perky and happy - like he's very PLEASED about the hurricane. It seems like more than his usual sociopathic cluenessness. Is there somethiing about the oil infrastructure, the neighborhoods that were destroyed (surely not strongholds of GOP support), the probable availabllity of cheap land now that so much has been destroyed. Or perhaps just that the cost of oil has soared so high?
He's a sociopath who is incapable of empathy, yes, but doesn't he seem really, really tickled to you? Like he's gotten something he thought he might not be able to pull off?
|
goclark
(1000+ posts)
|
Wed Aug-31-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #152 |
| 175. Put his ass on that tricycle and let him put |
 |
the pedal to the metal all over NO's . He is wasting his so called talent with Lance Armstrong.
|
Porcupine
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:38 AM
Response to Original message |
| 10. Saturated levees can breech at any time. |
 |
It happens around Sacremento CA on a regular basis. The levees are not maintained, they saturate and the water starts through a gopher tunnel or something. Next thing you know it's flooding a few square miles of whatever.
|
Hissyspit
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
| 13. I would think there are going to be more breeches. |
markus
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
| 68. Depends on whether or not its a real levee |
 |
It's hard to saturate the clay core of a real levee, and the levees around Orleans Parish are real levees. That doesn't mean they can't fail (as demonstrated here), expecially if compromised.
These were also reinforced with sheetpilings capped with concrete, when the levees were taken to 18'.
|
shanti
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
 |
the one in marysville in 1986. i was going to college there at the time when the levee broke and flooded linda and olivehurst, but i lived on the other side of the levee. it took out an entire mall and much more, and since the school was nearby, there were no classes for a couple of weeks. scary stuff, floods, and so very destructive!
|
Nothing Without Hope
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
| 153. and of course Bush slashed the funds for hurricane protection and disaster |
 |
relief and stole OUR National Guard and its resources for his dirty war in Iraq. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: Bush has slashed Clinton's Disaster Mitigation Program. (unbelievable) Posted by barbaraann GD Forum Sun Aug-28-05 12:23 PM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: New Orleans district, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Cut by BushPosted by usregimechange GD-P Mon Aug-29-05 12:25 AM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: Bush Cut Hurricane, Flood Protection Funding to New OrleansPosted by Lori Price CLG GD Forum Sun Aug-28-05 09:59 PM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: DU media Blast Bush's cuts to U.S. Army Corps of Engineerssregimechange GD-P Mon Aug-29-05 12:54 AM
|
kodi
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:46 AM
Response to Original message |
| 14. i was in the corps of engineers and at grand teton when it collapsed |
 |
an awful mess. but that was not near a metropolitan area of 1,000,000.
god help those folks. i still can not reach a dear friend from the suburbs of NO on his cell phone
i can hear bartenders all over america this week describing a new drink, ..the Big Easy....bourbon street and water
|
Wizard777
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 03:01 AM
Response to Original message |
| 18. Aw, Crap! This could get worse than 9/11. Don't everybody go praying |
 |
all the sametime now. We need to get boots moving. Those people need Major help.
|
Swamp Rat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 03:37 AM
Response to Original message |
| 20. i'm in Memphis, looking at the remains of my city on a motel TV. |
rodeodance
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 22. cnn just said that the hospitals are not evacuating at this time--water |
 |
is rising but not that fast. So, it is wait and see attitude at the moment.
|
Swamp Rat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
| 24. yes, but people are in attics, in pitch black night. |
NorthernSpy
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
| 26. never has dawn seemed so far away |
GumboYaYa
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
 |
I know so many older people who would not or could not get out. I have several friends and family members in NO right now that most likely will not be able to survive the aftermath. The heat may end up being as bad as the floods for some of the elderly.
I am really glad you got out SwampRat.
|
peacebuzzard
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 58. SR, where did your mother stay? |
 |
I believe you posted she stayed behind. Also, do you know of Pitohui? He is in there w/ his animals somewhere. Abracos,
|
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 59. I am SOOOOOO glad you decided to leave |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 09:34 AM by SoCalDem
It sucks that what you left behind is devastated, but at least you , you are safe and relatively dry  I hope that your Mom & pets are ok too.. phone service is bad right now..You will probably hear from her soon.
|
peacebuzzard
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #59 |
| 65. From what I am understanding, his mother is in the Quarter and his dogs, |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 09:38 AM by peacebuzzard
are in that mess, too. This is very bad for the SR. OMG
|
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #65 |
| 67. Oh no.. I thought they all went to memphis.. |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 09:35 AM by SoCalDem
I'll edit ..I misread it.. I thought they were kenneled where he was now. 
|
intheflow
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
 |
I'm so sorry. I didnt' know you are from that area. I'm hoping for the safety of your pets. I know I can't say anything to make it better, but know that I have always appreciated your humor here on DU, and my heart is with you today. 
|
mom cat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 89. I am so sorry for you and all of the others. |
 |
 Stay away as long as you can.
|
yardwork
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 156. Swamp Rat, I'm glad you're ok |
 |
I was worried about your safety.
I'm so sorry.
|
FourStarDemocrat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 163. Very sorry to hear about your situation SwampRat, and also the many others |
 |
I wish you all the best. Please keep us posted.
|
halobeam
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 166. I'm so sorry Swamp Rat..... |
 |
my heart goes out to you.
|
NorthernSpy
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:00 AM
Response to Original message |
| 21. I guess this is the thing we were all afraid of |
 |
Just this evening, it seemed as though it wouldn't get this bad. And now the Pontchartrain levee has failed? Somehow, I just can't believe it. 
|
NorthernSpy
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:21 AM
Response to Original message |
| 23. story from Bloomberg: |
 |
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aId... (...)
The streets of New Orleans are flooding after breaches of a levee in the city, possibly due to sandbags piles collapsing, Trooper Doug Pierrelee, a spokesman for Louisiana state police, said in a telephone interview today. The city's French quarter is underwater, he said.
Water is rising 1 inch (25 centimeters (sic)) every 5 minutes and has risen 6 feet (1.82 meters) at the Tulane University Hospital, which is planning to evacuate, CNN reported earlier, citing Karen Troyer-Caraway, the hospital's vice-president.
The police are receiving calls by hundreds of people who are stranded in the attics of their houses, waiting to be rescued, Pierrelee said.
About 200 rescue boats were working to get them out, he said. Some of the callers or their families were injured and some were pregnant or had their children with them, he said.
(...)
|
Nothing Without Hope
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
| 154. And those are just the ones WITH WORKING CELL PHONES. How many |
 |
have no way to call for help?
|
chicagiana
(993 posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #154 |
| 160. I thought the cells were down ... |
 |
No electricity = no cell service. Very curious.
I saw some pictures of them cutting people out of there attics and then plopping them onto the boat right nearby. The peaks of the roofs only 2-3 feet above the water line.
When all is said and done, they will probably find hundreds of people drowned to death in their attics. This is a great tragedy.
|
NorthernSpy
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:31 AM
Response to Original message |
| 25. a more detailed story from CNN: |
 |
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina/index.htm... Levee breach reported along lakefront of New Orleans
NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- As the death toll from Hurricane Katrina reaches at least 56, a levee holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain has reportedly sustained a breach two blocks long in the Lakefront area of New Orleans.
(...)
Karen Troyer Caraway, vice president of Tulane University Hospital, told CNN that Louisiana State Police had confirmed the New Orleans breach to her.
Water at the hospital, located in New Orleans' central business district, was rising at the rate of a foot an hour, she told CNN, and had already reached the top of the first floor.
"It's dumping all the lake water in Orleans Parish," she said. "It's essentially running down Canal Street. We have whitecaps on Canal Street."
"We now are completely surrounded by 6 feet of water, and are about to get on the phone with Federal Emergency Management Agency to start talking about evacuation plans," Caraway said. "The water is rising so fast, I can't even begin to describe how fast it is rising."
She did not know whether any pumps had been turned on to pump the water, but said, "they're not going to be able to compete with Lake Pontchartrain." The story also confirms the reports of hospital evacuations.
|
speedoo
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Original message |
| 27. New Orleans Levee has been breached... two block long breach. (CNN) |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 03:15 AM by speedoo
Lake Pontchartrain is now flowing into New Orleans.
This from a VP at Tulane Hospital, who got the report from State Police. Looks like there will have to be an air evacuation of the hospital... 1,000 patients.
|
nadinbrzezinski
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 28. now that will be fun at this time, really |
Occulus
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
nothingshocksmeanymore
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 30. oh holy shit..that's not good |
lvx35
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 31. this is really really big. |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 02:43 AM by lvx35
If you haven't seen it, you might want to check out this video here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... This is big stuff. A lot of people are dead. Tragedy and huge problems everywhere. On the long term note, people were speculating a few years ago that NO is sinking, and that a single hurricane, combined with the effect of global warming, could put the city under for good.
|
chicagiana
(993 posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
| 161. New Orleans will NEVER recover 100% ... |
 |
The fatal flaw of this city has been laid bare. Many who left will stay gone. And the flood insurance will keep many more from rebuilding.
Time for the Corp of Engineers to think about jacking up the city. And I certainly hope there is a commission that looks into why the steel core concrete capped levees failed AFTER the hurricane was done and over with.
|
expatriot
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 32. Damn it... I thought your title was "No breach" |
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
| 61. Someone else posted after this one and abbreviated New orleans |
 |
an unfortunate abbreviation in this case 
|
jobycom
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 33. The mayor said this several hours ago |
 |
Is this a new break, or the same one at 17th and Canal? I got the idea it was the same breach from this morning.
|
Kenroy
(768 posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
 |
the woman from Tulane said there was NO standing water there from the storm, but the first floor was now flooded, and the water was rising quickly. So clearly something has changed.
|
Garbo 2004
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
screembloodymurder
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
| 55. Mayor has full commitment from Feds |
 |
From the President on up.
|
Swamp Rat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
 |
my mom is in the Quarter! ... people in attics... kennels, my poor dogs! 
|
renate
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
Trevelyan
(1000+ posts)
|
Wed Aug-31-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
| 182. I am also so sorry, will pray, since Bush won't do anything and |
 |
sprituality and prayer can be very powerful. Think positive about your families and all the families.
|
colorado_ufo
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
 |
I will say a prayer for you, and for us all, and for the animals. My husband and I were born and raised in N.O., and our families have been there for generations. We are sort of the "black sheep" for moving to Colorado!
Now the whole family is evacuated to different places - just heard from them all this evening, except my sister, who rode the storm out at home in Poplarville, MS. She called me from the eye of the hurricane with major damage to her house, and we have not been able to contact her since. She couldn't see her horses, but said the dogs were safe for now. Sis said she had never seen anything like it.
Your Mom didn't evacuate?
|
Swamp Rat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
| 42. She couldn't because of her SO, but they are in the Monteleone Hotel |
 |
I pray she is OK, and your sister too... and all the animals in Audubon Zoo... 
|
arcos
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
| 44. Lo siento mucho Swamp... |
 |
Al menos estás bien, pero sin duda es una situación muy difícil. Lo siento... 
|
Swamp Rat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #44 |
 |
no sé que pasó de mi amigo de San José. No podia hacer contacto con el antes de sair de la ciudad... ¡huey puta! e agua está chegando na cidade e tem gente no sótão que vão morrer! ay! ¡mis perros! 
|
arcos
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
peacebuzzard
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
| 73. SR, I said this B4--my casa is your casa. |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 09:46 AM by peacebuzzard
Tou aqui em Knoxville, seja bem vindo...v. e seu pai. Em vez de gastar no hotel de Memphis, A distancia e' mais ou menos 7 horas de carro. A casa e' pobre, talvez tem que dormir no chao, mais a gente da' um jeito... tem feijao e arroz de microonda. Com toda sinceridade, seja bemvindo.
|
NorthernSpy
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
| 47. here's one reason to take heart: |
 |
The Monteleone is 16 floors high, so your mom probably has a really good chance of staying safe and out of the flood waters. Even so, I know it's so hard to be left waiting and worrying, and unable to change anything. 
|
Swamp Rat
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #47 |
| 48. she's on the third floor last I spoke with her... 32 hours ago. n/t |
Zhade
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
| 51. Here's hoping for the best, SR. |
alarcojon
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
| 57. Yo tambien estoy pensando en ti |
GumboYaYa
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
| 99. At least the Montleone is high enough to be safe for now. |
 |
Good luck SwampRat. We are trying to figure out how to get down there to bring family members up to St. Louis. Have you seen anything on evacuating the people still in the city?
|
myrna minx
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
peacebuzzard
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
LynzM
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
| 92. Swamp Rat, I'm so, so sorry to hear that |
Biased Liberal Media
(1000+ posts)
|
Wed Aug-31-05 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
Andromeda
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 36. CNN is talking about it now... |
 |
Spokeswoman says the hospital is on emergency backup power but will lose it when water reaches second floor. First floor is already under water.
|
Andromeda
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
| 37. The breach in the levee is two blocks long... |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 03:39 AM by Andromeda
So far, but water is rising fast at 17th Street Canal. Dumping lake water into NO Parish--white caps on water because it's moving so fast. Quarter is battered---20 ft. floodwaters.
|
NorthernSpy
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
| 38. my aunt and uncle are in either the hospital or the Dome... |
 |
We haven't heard from them.
I'm hoping as hard as I can that everyones loved ones will make it through this okay.
|
juajen
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
| 41. My historian hubbie has a solution |
 |
Says they have to do what the Dutch did in WWII when Nazis breached their dike. Put two big ships in the breach; should be some from the port. This should give them time to heal the breach. Somebody needs to tell them. This is the time when everyone should appreciate the value of history.
|
Qibing Zero
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
| 43. It can never be said enough... |
 |
..how much just a little study of the past can aid us today. Every day I research more, I see direct comparisions to situations today that should just flat out not be happening. Sometimes it seems oh so bleak.
|
donheld
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
| 143. Welcome to DU Qibing Zero |
artemisia1
(343 posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
| 52. Wouldn't work here. No ocean access for large ships and lake too shallow. |
 |
Also, the area the Nazi's used was more accessible (no storm) and they had large ships they could bring to bear quickly.
|
DRoseDARs
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
| 53. As I said in the other thread, this isn't a shipping canal... |
 |
...it's a drainage ditch. Such ships won't fit except in the opening of the "canal" on the lake.
|
markus
(1000+ posts)
|
Tue Aug-30-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #53 |
| 69. No, but a big ass tow boat could put an empty barge in the mouth |
 |
of the canal, and sink it.
The only problem there is, you lose the 17th St. Canal pumping station, which uses this canal to drain central parts of the city.
But if the lake is backflooding the city, they need to do this or something now.
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Scooter24
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:25 AM
Response to Original message |
| 49. my mother called me last night |
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she is a pediatric surgeon. She, along with a few of her nurses, are thinking about heading down to the NO area later tomorrow to offer free assistance to anyone who needs it. Things aren't looking good for the area 
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SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #49 |
| 86. I just heard that they are moving patients to the Superdome |
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.. I hope they can repair the roof before more rain comes
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Tin Man
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message |
| 56. photo of levee breach - 17th St Canal near Lakeshore Park in Metarie |
myrna minx
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
QuettaKid
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
| 66. Here's a satellite view of the same area |
Tin Man
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #66 |
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Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 10:05 AM by Tin Man
zoom in/out with mouse clicks for best perspective
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Junkdrawer
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #66 |
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #66 |
| 111. Here are two more maps to give an idea of the vicinity to downtown |
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http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.976052,-90.105572&spn... That big gray area in the upper left area (just east of the interstate) is a huge cemetery. And, on this map, the area in the middle is the French Quarter (Bourbon St. and the areas around it) http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.957946,-90.066948&spn...
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atommom
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message |
northzax
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message |
| 71. Scarily, this isn't the worst news |
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thank goodness, it looks like the sea did not breach into Ponchartrain, which, combined with this levee break, would have eliminated New Orleans, so thanks for little favours. THe breach of a street-side levee can be repaired (how are the pumps this morning, anyone know?) but the ocean cannot be stopped.
what a mess. Just when we start to get cocky, the planet (no anthropomorphism intended) shrugs and we are reminded of how small and feeble we really are.
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mom cat
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message |
| 74. New levee break. Water rising a foot an hour in NO |
Teaser
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
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I only see reference to the 17th and Canal Street break...
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maddezmom
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #75 |
| 76. I'm pretty sure it's the same one |
jobycom
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
| 77. Not a new one. This is the same one from yesterday. nt |
GoBlue
(930 posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
| 78. According to an unconfirmed comment... |
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by Soledad O'brien. Did you even listen before posting this 'Non headline'.?
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mom cat
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #78 |
| 80. Not Soledad...Chad Meyers..meteorologist: Did YOU follow the link? |
Minstrel Boy
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
| 79. There are two breaches: |
ramapo
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #79 |
| 84. Story seems to be downplayed |
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These breaches may get NO close to the worst-case scenario. How in hell do they fix a breach of that size? Not quickly, that's for sure.
Water is so powerful, it is very difficult to stop, so this flooding will continue until some kind of equalibrium is reached.
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htuttle
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #84 |
| 87. The water will stop when it rises to sea level in the city |
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...Which was pretty much the worst case scenario -- it's just happening a bit slower than it would have had Katrina hit N.O. square on.
Worse yet, much of the water the storm dropped upriver from New Orleans is going to flow right back down to the city.
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northzax
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #87 |
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the level of Ponchartrain, which is a little below sea level, I think.
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htuttle
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #90 |
| 101. Hmm...not sure about that |
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But I think Lake Pontchartrain connects to the Gulf of Mexico, so physics tells me they'd have to be the same altitude (without a set of locks between them, etc...). 
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northzax
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #101 |
| 114. no, there is a levee between ponchartrain and the Gulf |
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the big fear was that the natural break between the two would go and let in the storm surge. the egress is controlled by canals and locks...I know the lake is about 6 feet lower, normally, than the river at the same point.
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markus
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #114 |
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The Lake is open to the Gulf of Mexico through the Rigolets. This is gulf water that flooding the Lake from combined storm surge and wind-driven seiche. And the lake fills faster than it drains, so it is probably somewhat above sea level at this time. And the city behind the levees is below.
At first I thought this might be contained by the L&N Railroad embankment tha bisects midcity, and by the other canal levees.
What I am guessing is happening is rather like that bad movie about the volcano in L.A. The floodwater is probaby just innundating the storm seweage syste and popping up all over town.
There's no practical way to stop that.
They either stop this breech, or the city will flood to the sea level line.
It sounds like there is more water still coming in via the MGRO to the Ninth WArd.
If there's a second breech somewhere in the Lake Pontchartrain levee system this is very bad.
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brooklynite
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
| 88. WDSU reporting 80% of City underwater |
Endangered Specie
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message |
| 91. Holy cow... I didnt think those levees would breech... |
mom cat
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message |
| 93. Water still rising...several breeches in the South Shore levee. WWLTV |
SoCalDem
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #93 |
| 94. SHIT.. that sounds ominous.. |
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and yet the news is still re-running the "personal" stories..
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ramapo
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #94 |
| 95. Breaches feed upon themselves |
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Once there is even a small opening, erosion quickly widens it until the pressure is alleviated.
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mom cat
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #94 |
| 96. WWLTV is doing a great job..they are back streaming at: |
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #96 |
ramapo
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #100 |
| 106. Sounds out of control |
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I've been watching the streaming video and the reports coming in are surreal. I don't know if CNN, etc. is covering to the same extent but the websites don't convey the enormity of the situation.
Mention was made as to how surprising this turn of events is. How that can be is beyond me. Here is a city below sea level protected by levees which are obviously not guaranteed in such extreme situations.
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Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #106 |
| 109. 1 - 2' of water in Downtown N.O.; Canal St. is a canal; water lapping F.Q. |
kenny blankenship
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message |
| 98. So is it assumed now that the water in the lake |
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and the water level in the city will "equalize"?
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Strelnikov_
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #98 |
| 110. If The Levee Breach Invert Has Eroded To Below The Level Of The Lake |
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as is probably the case, yes.
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kenny blankenship
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #110 |
| 122. Lack of Manpower seems to be a big problem for the rescue and recovery |
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all police and fire dept. practically no mention of National Guard in any coverage. I've seen.
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Francine Frensky
(870 posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #122 |
| 136. Where are the National Guard??? |
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Oh yeah, Iraq. Imagine the stories if you have a couple LA national guard sitting over in Iraq watching friends and family suffer...die...and having to be over there, not here helping. Horrible thought.
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Tin Man
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #136 |
| 137. the irony is deadly, ain't it? eom |
kenny blankenship
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #137 |
| 141. cnn: reporter by phone from Biloxi |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 01:42 PM by kenny blankenship
crowds coming up to their car frantically asking when help is going to come. No water no food. They haven't seen relief/rescue units.
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Nothing Without Hope
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #122 |
| 155. Yes, must not embarrass Our Fearless Leader. Who stole and has been |
 |
Edited on Tue Aug-30-05 05:37 PM by Nothing Without Hope
killing OUR National Guard in his immoral war of choice after slashing funds for disaster rellief and hurricane protection. I saw a post last night that Keith Olbermann on MSNBC mentioned the funding cuts by Bush - but I'll bet nobody else dared to, let alone mention that THIS is where the Guard should be. Did you notice how those pictures of the levies show basically no one working to shore them up?: And they weren't there BEFORE the storm hit either. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: Bush has slashed Clinton's Disaster Mitigation Program. (unbelievable) Posted by barbaraann GD Forum Sun Aug-28-05 12:23 PM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: New Orleans district, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Cut by BushPosted by usregimechange GD-P Mon Aug-29-05 12:25 AM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: Bush Cut Hurricane, Flood Protection Funding to New OrleansPosted by Lori Price CLG GD Forum Sun Aug-28-05 09:59 PM http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... Thread title: DU media Blast Bush's cuts to U.S. Army Corps of Engineerssregimechange GD-P Mon Aug-29-05 12:54 AM
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Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message |
| 107. WWL reporting reporting water still rising, and pouring fast in 9th ward |
mom cat
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message |
| 108. Water level rising in NOLA...rising fast in the lower 9th ward...WWLTV |
mom cat
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #108 |
| 112. They are hoping to drop sandbags in the breech on the 17th St Canal. |
Roland99
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #112 |
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Maybe if they drop about 10,000 all at once from a helicopter right above it.
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Minstrel Boy
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Aug-30-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #113 |
| 116. 3,000 sandbags is the plan. |
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Sounds like a Hail Mary measure.
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