AP: Northwest Jet Blows 4 Tires in Detroit

[question everything]

Northwest Jet Blows 4 Tires in Detroit

Four tires blew out on a Northwest Airlines jet while it was landing at Detroit Metropolitan Airport on Saturday, the first day of a mechanics strike at the airline.

No injuries were reported, Northwest spokeswoman Jennifer Bagdade said. She said it was premature to speculate on the cause of the blowout.

(snip)

Flight 210 from Seattle was carrying 222 passengers when it landed just before 4 p.m.

The Boeing 757 came to a stop on a taxiway, and buses lined up to transport the passengers to the terminal. Crews were using trucks to clear a runway of debris.

(snip)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050820/ap_on_re_us/northwest_blown_tire

[Bluebear]

1. So much for their cut-rate "replacement" mechanics! n/t

[Roland99]

2. This cannot possibly be blamed on the striking mechanics

I'd say a more likely cause was a pilot landed too harshly.

[Bluebear]

3. Come on.

What are the odds? And I have been in some mighty harsh landings, never blew a tire.

[Roland99]

4. I don't know what the rate of blowing tires are but...

saying this is the fault of some replacement mechanic doesn't make sense.

[Bluebear]

5. It's a bigger issue

I don't know what happened but there is a connection and it surely isn't a hard landing.

[Roland99]

6. And you know that for sure how?

[Bluebear]

8. never mind

[Daphne08]

43. You're right, Buebear. It wasn't caused by a hard landing.

If the plane had landed that hard, there would be damage to the landing gear as well.

[Puglover]

52. Roland...

how DARE you insert reason into this discussion. Were you not aware that everyone on this board has their A and P Licenses and a masters in Aviation from UND? Gosh, I've worked for NWA for a measly 27 years and they are teaching me things that I would have never even thought about!
:sarcasm:

[ElectroPrincess]

14. I'll second your opinion Bluebear ...

Myself and about a hundred intelligence troops were flown in from Oahu - in an Army 171 jet in preparation for an upcoming exercise to *the armpit of the earth* called the Pakaloa Training Area (PTA) (Big Island of Hawaii).

THAT HORRIFIC LANDING made the plane bounce twice and I kid you not, the first hit knocked the wind completely out of my lungs not unlike a Hypersonic XLC thrill ride at our local theme park.

But like your past experience Bluebear, even such a piss poor, super hard landing did NOT blow the tires of the jet.

Northwest should SETTLE with their people. They need to cut back on all the perks for the upper-executives and CEO FIRST not as a last resort. If they truly show the workers of Northwest by having the executives sacrifice on an equal level, well then, there will be a settlement.

Not into the details but this SMELLS like another selfish corporate screw the "little people workers" maneuver.

I'm not surprised with mechanical problems with scab workers. That's why they call it a STRIKE?!? You couldn't pay me to fly NorthWest while this strike is ongoing. ;)

[Bluebear]

17. Solidarity, EP

I landed in Missoula so hard once that all the oxygen masks came down. One lady actually reached up and grabbed it and started inhaling as though her life depended on it. No tires blew.

I love your post. :hug:

[ElectroPrincess]

22. Tks and yes, Solidarity is the way ! :-)

[cmd]

26. Someone didn't do their job

Probably someone without experience, as in replacement worker, aka scab.

[anitar1]

44. I read today that NorthWest had spent 100 million

dollars training all new crews--including flight attendants. Seems there is plenty of money to train "temporary" workers. This is just union busting, plain and simple.

[LisaL]

19. Sabotage?

It's very fishy, and I don't think replacement mechanics are to blame.
Tires wouldn't go bad that fast.

[Bluebear]

20. Sabotage by management, maybe?

To sway public opinion?

[libnnc]

9. but watch the corporate media try to spin it in that direction

just like Marian Blakey and her FAA media junkets -- (how much does it cost in taxpayer $$ for her to fly all over the country bad-mouthing air traffic controllers?) to major cities holding press conferences trying to spin the news that NATCA ATCers make too much $$$ and are falling down on the job.

Garbage propaganda by the FAA spooling up for NATCA contract negotiations.

It's union busting season in the airline industry. :nuke:

[sickinohio]

11. It's union-busting season in the

whole country!!

[Bluebear]

12. Absolutely. NW mechanics stood for something at least.

They will be out of work unfortunately.

[malaise]

24. Whole world you mean

Capitalism gone mad. Workers rights are not so slowly being eroded.

[question everything]

10. Certainly an interesting coincidence n/t

[Oerdin]

51. 4 blown tires on one plane

sounds like the pilot landed to hard and not a problem with mechanics.

[ewagner]

7. Blew four tires

here's one of the "main gear" on a 757,



It looks like all four tires were on the same gear. How that could have happened, I don't know. Any jet-jockeys care to speculate?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

13. what? no terrorist attack?

just anti-labor management and poor maintenance practices? boy, am I disappointed. Now we get to hear about Aruba all over again.

[Bluebear]

15. Breaking! Same plane flew on the Northwest Aruba route 9 years ago!

:crazy:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. Ah HAH! There is a connection

Now, did they search the plane for clues?

[Bluebear]

18. Four blonde hairs found!

But forensics trace it to a Seattle-based flight attendant, never mind.

[0007]

21. How many times has four tires gone out on one landing?

I'd like to see all four tires go out on junior's bicycle at the same time.

[mom cat]

30. My thoughts exactly!

[dcq]

23. NW plane drops nose in Guam landing

Friday a NW Airline flight into Guam coming in from Japan had problems with landing gear. The plane landed with tires flying off, nose dropped and hit the runway. The plane is currently being nosed-up with cranes so it can be removed from the runway. Passengers were evacuated via chutes, 3 minor injuries, one transported to hospital. Incoming flights were rerouted to Saipan, or sent to Anderson AFB.

Haven't seen any coverage anywhere but in Guam. You can check KUAM television for reports. Thought it was rather strange - what with mechanic strike, etc.

[question everything]

32. Welcome to DU, dcq

:toast:

[newyawker99]

54. Hi dcq!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[punpirate]

25. There are more factors involved than...

... just a hard landing. For example, the tires might be a bit tired, would pass a visual inspection, but might not tolerate coming in too fast and using too much brake. The brakes heat up very quickly and that heat gets transferred to the rims and the tire beads. Too much heat for too long and the beads delaminate. Then the tires blow out and come apart.

It can also be a case of the tires having gone past their normal use date and been passed through because the company wanted to cut corners on maintenance costs. Aircraft tires undergo different loads than other kinds of tires, namely being accelerated from zero to landing speeds in a fraction of a second. That puts very high stresses on the sidewalls, so the number of landings is a critical factor, not just the hours in service as with other aircraft parts.

The investigation on this will be interesting.

[ewagner]

27. Good common sense answer

I know that tires are changed out after "X" number of landings. Maybe somebody was pushing the envelope here...

question though? If one tire went, on that particular gear would it damage the others so they would blow too?

[punpirate]

28. Possibly...

... since the steel reinforcement in them is extensive. The sidewalls tend to shred, but the rolling surface comes off in goodly-sized strips. That could cause damage to nearby tires.

What is equally possible is that the plane was yawing as it came in for a landing. Below a certain speed, the control surfaces become less effective, and if a pilot were trying to center the longitudinal axis of the plane on the runway (to avoid running off of it), applying a lot more force on the main brakes on one side would help with that, but that would also load that side quite a bit more, and could cause enough heat for one or more tires on one landing gear set to fail.

Cheers.


Edit for syntax.

[ewagner]

33. More braking

on one side sounds very feasible....

[rfkrfk]

46. standard procedure during a strike, increase landing speed 20 knots

reduces chances of a stall,
but increases wear on tires and brakes,
kinda a tradeoff.

[burrowowl]

55. It does sound more like

cost-cutting by the airliners.

[DemoTex]

29. I have over 17,000 hours of flying time, most in jet transport aircraft.

I have never blown a tire. Most blown tires are pilot-induced with heavy braking. A malfunctioning anti-skid braking system will also cause blown tires. Jet transport tires are inflated to about 220 psi with an inert gas (nitrogen). Improper inflation can also lead to blown tires. Blown tires seldom make the news, unless the "wrenches" are on strike.

[Bluebear]

31. I was waiting for you!

Any significance that management is taking over for the wrenches today?

[DemoTex]

34. Standard procedure during a strike.

It will still be very slow. I heard that Bu$h has refused to call a PEB (Presidential Emergency Board). Poopy Bu$h refused to call a PEB when the IAM struck at Eastern in the early 90s. That sent EAL into liquidation. The Bu$h regime wants (needs) at least one big airline in liquidation. While US Airways and UAL, already in Chapter 11, were the prime candidates, this strike at weak NWA might be what drives the next airline out of business.
In fact, it was a forgone conclusion in the industry that Delta and Northwest would declare Chapter 11 in September (before the new BK laws go into effect). If NWA were that close pre-strike, then they will be filing in Sunday court tomorrow (don't laugh, US Airways entered BK twice .. on Sundays!). A bankruptcy judge could change things for the IAM real quick.


DemoTex

[saigon68]

50. They (NWA) are going into Chapter 11 before the Oct 17 deadline

Count on it !!!!

At one time they were a Very Fine Airline--- (Remember Northwest Orient) ??????

I flew on one of their charters from Travis to Tan Son Nhut.

[ConcernedCanuk]

35. As a mechanic up here in Canukistan, I agree with the brake theories

.
.
.

If the brakes were locked up, either by a defective part such as the anti-skid controller, or operator error - all four tires would not turn, and only a few feet on the runway with that kind of speed and weight would rip the tires in seconds

I don't know the situation at all, but a mechanic with electric and hydraulic expertise would not have difficulty in creating a defect

Remember,

the United States has killed alot of innocent people in the last few years

Who KNOWS where all their relatives are working???

Regardless,

I don't think the union would be involved in this

and IF it was sabotage

timing it during a strike is sure to throw many off track . . .

[DemoTex]

36. I know the IAM membership and leadership ...

They do not support or do sabotage. Ever. Period. Get that off the board. Aircraft maintenance, in the absence of the striking mechanics, is up to the company's management. NWA, in this case, must comply with FAA maintenance procedures while the IAM is on strike. Period.
Mac
ALPA Accident Investigator

[Krupskaya]

40. FTR...

The mechanics at NWA aren't IAM. They're AMFA.

[ConcernedCanuk]

48. Maybe my statement wasn't clear enough

.
.
.

I said

"I don't think the union would be involved in this"

How could I have made my point of view clearer?

I certainly did NOT put "on the board" that the IAM membership and leadership support or do sabotage

but I'm afraid

that in the new America

there are many others that DO support and do sabotage . . .

and the present Administration's aggressiveness around the globe will incite those with that kind of tendency to accelerate their activities

That's My Canuk Opinion anyhoo . .

(sigh)

[DemoTex]

56. I apologize to you, CC. I was spring-loaded to a defensive position

Again .. sorry. I was wrong.
Mac

[ConcernedCanuk]

57. LOL - "spring-loaded to a defensive position"

.
.
.

Now WHY in the world would anyone living under the Bushler Regime feel like that . .

No offense taken, and apology accepted without prejudice

carry on . . .

[napi21]

37. You all need to pay attention to the posts by the people here that

know what could have happened. Yes, it's possible that a mechanical fault could have caused this, but more likely is pilot error. Heavy landing and too much brake.

My son is a mech for another airline, and has been for 15 years. I want to support these mech's at NW too, but it's wrong to start supposing tampering or inspection error just because of the strike. Blown tires happen all the time, you just never hear about them.

[Bluebear]

38. Napi, blown tires do not happen "all the time"

They just don't. Within the last day a nose gear collapsed in Guam, this incident happened, and tonight smoke in the cabin forced a return to DTW from a PIT flight. Whatever the cause I don't think it is a perfect alignment of coincidences.

[napi21]

39. Perhaps "all the time" was an over statement, but they aren't

extremely rare either. Here's a link that is 5 years old, but demonstrates that it happens more often than you might think.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/SystemSafety/newsletters/tp3658/4-99/489.htm

Look at the small chart a bit down the page.

All I mean is that we shouldn't be accusing someone of tampering and incompetence just because of this strike.

[Bluebear]

41. I understand.

It's a horrible situation for those mechanics anyhow. The airline is trying to bust their unions.

[napi21]

47. Of course they are, and I was surprised the pilots and attendants

didn't go along with the mechs. I suspect they're all part of a union too. Too bad they can't all work together huh?

[Puglover]

53. Yeah Bluebear

they do. I fucking spend 40+ hours a week in the System Operations Control Center at NWA. Do you even know what that is???? Your speculation about all this is irresponsible.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

42. In other news

Bush blows 4 GOP donors while in Idaho

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. Listen to the bluebird.

The sky is full of trial balloons today.

[tedzbear]

49. This is probably too soon to be strike related.

Scab induced maintenance problems probably won't start showing up until a week goes by.

Even so, there is NO way I would fly NWA right now. It just doesn't sound safe.