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London bombings: the truth emerges (no al-Qaeda 'mastermind')

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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:44 PM
Original message
London bombings: the truth emerges (no al-Qaeda 'mastermind')
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 07:46 PM by lockdown
The suicide cell that killed 52 people on 7 July is not linked to those alleged to be behind the second London attacks on 21 July, according to the initial findings of the biggest anti-terrorist investigation held in Britain.

An investigation into the four suicide bombers from the first attacks and the people alleged to be behind the July 21 plot has found no evidence of any al-Qa'ida "mastermind" or senior organiser. The inquiry involved MI5, MI6, the listening centre at GCHQ, and the police.

The disclosure that the July 7 team were working in isolation - and were radicalised by Mohammad Sidique Khan, the oldest man - has caused concern among anti-terrorist officers.

Police and MI5 fear it increases the chance that more "self-sufficient" units similar to the July 7 suicide cell are hiding in Britain. Anti-terrorist officers are worried by the evidence that previously unknown "clean skin" terror cells are forming in Britain with little or no help from abroad.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article305547.ec...

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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow. Whatta ya know. al Qaeda isn't the only game in town.
n/t
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. And, gee, actions have consequences...
... no matter how much propaganda to the contrary is spewed.
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Sven77 Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. you know what i think
who watches the watchers
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. exactly!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. LOL!!!!.......Sounds like a good Alfred Hitchcock movie to me.
That is a good point!!!

We need to have cameras on these bozos 24/7.

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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Myths about the bombings (from same edition of Independent)
MYTH Haroon Rashid Aswat, a British-born Muslim who grew up in West Yorkshire, was reported to be the mastermind behind the July 7 suicide bombings and had been arrested in Pakistan.

REALITY He was never in Pakistan but was eventually detained in Zambia. Scotland Yard does not view him as a key player in the July 7 attacks.

MYTH A known terrorist was widely reported to have slipped into Britain to "mastermind" the July 7 London bombings.

REALITY The man was an innocent Pakistani with a similar name to a suspected al-Qa'ida figure on a watch list of foreign security agencies.

(more)

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article305548.ec...
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I think this is bullshit
Haroon Rashid Aswat was indeed in Pakistan and then fled to Zimbabwe and Zambia. The interesting thing about Aswat is of course that he used to be working for the MI6, according to former Justice Dept. prosecutor John Loftus. Funny, after Loftus dropped that bombshell, British authorities suddenly didn't suspect Aswat of being the mastermind after all.

Justice Dept. prosecutors in Seattle wanted to bring charges against Aswat in 2002, but their efforts were blocked from by highest level in the Justice Dept. Apparently because he was a British agent. Looks like he is going to slip away once more...

BTW, the "known terrorist" who just happened to have a "similar name" was also Aswat...

But now it's all become a "myth". What to believe?
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Haroon Rashid Aswat
Good points. I don't always buy what Loftus or his sources say but he is definitely worth taking seriously. Whether he's right on Aswat, no idea, but I agree there's a lot more to Aswat and his story than meets the eye.
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. It's possible that and the main article could both be true,
that Aswat is an asset of some intelligence agency or agencies, but that the bombers were still independent "homegrowns". What does seem clear is that a lot of "official" sources were pushing all kinds of angles in the aftermath, and there were a lot of contradictions. Some were pushing the homegrown/amateur angle, some were pushing the international network angles. To me it seemed like different groups of influence and their voices in the media had different ideas on how the attacks could be best exploited, wherever the truth lies. Some are maybe too invested in the international top-down organised al-Qaeda myths they've built, some wanted to stress homegrown dangers to support repressive domestic legislation.

All the attention around Aswat could maybe have been caused by sources wanting to talk up or go after Pakistani and international al-Qaeda links that weren't really there, without realising just how complicated a person of interest he actually was? There did seem to be a hell of a lot of backtracking after the report(s) he'd been arrested in Pakistan, and I noted here my surprise that the popular British press didn't pick up on him and his apparent links with Abu Hamza, who is a front page hated Islamic extremist bogeyman in the UK (not that I noticed anyway). They'd probably claim it's because Hamza is awaiting trial, but I can't believe that would stop them splashing on a story linking Abu the hook man to the bombings. More than meets the eye, definitely.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Good points
We amateurs can only speculate about what's really going on. I find it a little improbable that these seemingly very normal and well integrated young men would get this idea all on their own, but maybe they did. I can't shake off the feeling that they may have been unwitting suicide bombers though.
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Differing official agendas
Atually, those contradictions probably weren't just down to disagreement on how best to exploit the situation. Blair and his allies had good reason to talk up global enemies and networks even if they weren't really there. A homegrown phenonemon reflects much more badly on Blair's responsibility for creating the situation, better for him that it's seen as a strike by the already existing enemy he claimed we had to fight in a war on terror. Blair's guilty as hell either way, but it's degrees of culpability and how heavy the consequences will be for him.

Perhaps the unwelcome light was thrown on Aswat by overzealous Blair minions, desperate to justify his actions and shift the weight of blame away from Blair and towards the sinister enemy he's supposedly trying to protect us against. Like Republicans blowing al-Qaeda moles for short term domestic political gain. Anyone know the first source that mentioned Aswat at all in relation to the bombings?
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Intelligence sources, security sources, the usual
Talking to myself again. Earliest mention of Aswat I've come across so far in relation to the bombings is July 21st reports of his arrest in Pakistan (in the morning papers, before that day's failed bombings), with denials coming later that day. Whover the sources for it were they all seemed to be off the record.

July 21, 2005

Top al-Qaeda Briton called Tube bombers before attack
By Zahid Hussain in Islamabad, Daniel McGrory and Sean ONeill

THE British al-Qaeda leader linked to the London terrorist attacks was being questioned by police in Pakistan last night after the discovery of mobile phone records detailing his calls with the suicide bombers.

...

Intelligence sources told The Times that during his stay Aswat visited the home towns of all four bombers as well as selecting targets in London.

...

Security sources there told The Times that he was armed with a number of guns, wearing an explosive belt and carrying around 17,000 in cash. He had a British passport and was about to flee across the border to Afghanistan.

...

Intelligence sources claim that there were up to twenty calls between Aswat and two of the bombers in the days leading up to the bombing of three Tube trains and a double-decker bus. A senior Pakistani security source said: We believe this man had a crucial part to play in what happened in London.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1702411,0...


Australian Broadcasting Corporation

TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT

LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1419737.ht...

Broadcast: 21/07/2005
Britain denies bombing mastermind caught

Reporter: Rafael Epstein

TONY JONES: Britain's High Commissioner to Pakistan has tonight denied reports that the mastermind of the London bombings had been captured by police. Earlier this evening it had been reported that the British-born Haroon Rashid Aswat had been picked up as part of a series of raids in Pakistan. The suspect is thought to have flown out of Britain just before the attacks.

British newspaper reports that there had been a breakthrough in the case came as Tony Blair outlined his Governments plans for tough new laws to try to prevent a repeat of the attacks.



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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. "Intelligence sources"
as always. What is clear is that this is not the media speculating. They just report what they are fed by their "intelligence sources". So these sources reported that Aswat had visited the home towns of the four bombers shortly before the bombings. And now that's a "myth", all of a sudden. Slightly 1984ish, isn't it?

A senior Pakistani security source said: We believe this man had a crucial part to play in what happened in London.

Why would he say that, it's just a myth, didn't he get the memo?
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. The Aswat connection didn't come from the media,
doesn't mean it was true though, obviously. Can't say it was disinformation, but I see possible motives for it being that if it came from circles who support Blair and his policies (international and domestic) on security and terror, as many in the police and intelligence communities do.

For all I know, the "intelligence sources" could be Alistair Campbell continuing in his dossier plagiarizing role as head of the Coalition Information Centre. :D

A senior Pakistani security source could be any amount of people who could have any amount of reasons for saying that.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Yes, that is true
I could definitely see Alistair Campbell, Blair's Rove, being an "intelligence source" :-). But if they wanted to give the impression of an international al-Qaida conspiracy, why pick Aswat to be the bogeyman if he has indeed been working for the MI6? Perhaps the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, but it still seems odd to me.

My personal guess - not a very qualified guess, admittedly - is that Aswat really was the mastermind, and that this is being covered up because of his MI6 connections. That doesn't necessarily mean that British secret services ordered the bombings, it could simply mean that his intel affiliations are too embarassing.
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yeah
That's what I was thinking, different people, maybe even in the same organisations, knowing about Aswat and his links but not knowing the full story of who he is. Just thought, if that was the case they would have LOVED his Abu Hamza connection on face value, immense propaganda potential in that.

It's a stretch, granted, but things will become more clear hopefully. For all that, it wouldn't be too surprising if your guess was right and he was involved in some way. Not like he isn't capable of such things from what little I know of him.
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. So many stories, so little truth
Maybe Aswat is the West's very own Yevno Azev.

http://lark.phoblacht.net/mickhall18jul.html

In this murky world it is quite possible for someone to be a terrorist mastermind and a government agent at the same time.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Agreed. Funny how the announcement that he is an M16 agent spurs
his clearance. My guess is that it was an inside job by the government. Don't forget that the UK had announced a few days earlier that they planned to withdraw from Iraq. Why would the alleged Muslim terrorists attack when they were getting what they wanted? The Neocons were the ones who had the motive because they needed to ratchet up the anti-Muslim fervor to keep their war going.
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. There goes the excuse to invade Iran...
OH WELL....
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Don't worry.
Cheney/Rove/Rumsfeld will think up another one.

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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Since when do they need an excuse?
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Trevelyan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Someone on Smirking Chimp.com wrote that she was half asleep listening to
Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast 13:30 Jul 07, '05 / 30 Sivan
http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=853465765

Also see: Britain failed to protect London even after Israel warned Britain of coming Al-Qaeda terror inefficiency or conspiracy?
India Daily News Bureau Jul. 7, 2005. URL:

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/3489.asp
Also see: http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=85346
Also see:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/070705isr...

London Bombings: Electrical Surge Connected to Menezes Shooting?
~~~~~~
the BBC the night before the bombings and posted the day of the bombings that the BBC was reporting power surges then power outage and wondered why they didn't just come out and tell the British people about the bombings. Delayed broadcasts were installed before the London bombings and someone who linked to the news article said that when they first read it they thought something like the London bombings would happen soon.

The Brazilian man murdered by "mistake" by London police and one soldier used to dealing with IRA bombings was a free lance electrician.

~~~~~~~~~~~

F Napoli/Prison Planet | August 3 2005

1. The 21/7 attempt was an inside job too. In order to connect "home-made" bombs, which surprise surprise did not explode (all 4 of them), to the ones used on 7/7, which were actually of military origin.

2. We need to find out in which locations Jean Charles worked at recently. He was not shot seven or eight or nine times in the head as a "mistake". Understand? He was allowed to get onto a BUS, before being herded and THROWN inside a tube carriage PACKED with passengers so they would have an excuse TO kill him. I have made various attempts to inquire from journalists where he worked at recently and all I've been told is - "no information regarding that at the moment".

He was killed because of what he saw or learned.

Some tips - the contradiction between the Transport Police, Metronet and the National Grid. The former two declared there WAS a power surge which "caused the explosions". The latter - the National Grid, DENIED there was ever a power surge.

{more at Prison Planet}
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. I take it there won't be anti-false-flag-attack protests...
The sheeple will never wake up. All there's left to do is run.
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Always such a ray of darkness, wli -
Fear not - truth and goodness always prevail.

:hi:
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. ... and that's why the Inquisition lasted 600 years
I've got bad news for you: the bad guys have won before and they can do it again.
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
37. I've good news for you -
The bad guys always end up dead.

Always.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Our actions in Iraq and the ME in general are "breeding" terrorists
Thanks again Shrub, the world is certainly a safer place now that Saddam is behind bars. :eyes:

They're going to continue popping up all over. It will be a never ending game of "Wack-a-mole.

Something still stinks about all of this though. How do you combat something like this without becoming a police state? Perhaps AlQa'ida has run out it's usefulness - they need a new enemy.
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yeah, it still fits an agenda of sorts, however true it is
The possibility of totally homegrown bombers had been pushed by some official sources from very early on, and it tended to come alongside talk of how many new draconian laws were needed to combat this new "enemy within".
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. It's designed to soften up the public
to accept the summary execution of anyone who fails the "brown bag test" anytime, anywhere.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Way To GO BUSH!!! U DA Man!!! nt
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 08:55 PM by VegasWolf
:sarcasm:
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. GOOD counter-intelligence story to protect Poodle's farcical
Good Friday Agreement with the cold war mercenaries who have been spun as 'The IRA'.

Poodle, Shrub and their lame duck partner Vladimir Putin are the triumvirate that for the last 20 years headhunted, bankrolled and protected global terrorists to act as a smokescreen for organised crime running the US oil industry.

Today's Independent story has all the feel of an imminent massive covert operation to bust the slime that has masqueraded as that new world order which brought us Iraq WMD, UN oil-for-fraud and the financial probity of BCCI, Banco Ambrosiano and - imminently - HSBC.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. "global terrorists to act as a smokescreen for organised crime running the
US oil industry." Well what do you know - BINGO - we have a winner. :)
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. LOL!!!!.........Bada bing!!!
They think they're brilliant.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. "we gotta fight 'em over there, so we don't haffta fight 'em over heya"
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Same modus operandi as the Madrid bombings of 2004
Independent cells of fanatic fundamentalist Muslims waging their "holly war" in a non-organized manner.

Interestingly enough, this is the same type of "leaderless resistance" advocated by Timothy McVeigh and the right-wing militia movement.

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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. OK, so there is consistency here. Where were they all trained?
North Carolina?
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lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. Partial corroboration in Sunday Telegraph
Confirming July 7th and 21st weren't linked and playing down an outside "mastermind", but still reporting probable international links.

...

Scotland Yard and security officials have now confirmed the disclosure made by The Sunday Telegraph two weeks ago that senior officers see no direct link between the July 7 and July 21 attackers.

However, they think it "improbable" that any terrorist cell was acting alone without financial, technical and other support, almost certainly from overseas.

As revealed by this newspaper last week, there have been a number of links between groups in Saudi Arabia and suspected terrorists in Britain, and these remain at the forefront of the investigation.

...

Security sources say they do not believe there was an outside "mastermind" either operating within Britain or who came to Britain to supervise the July 7 bombings. Instead, it is now suspected that one or more of the British-born bombers attended a foreign terrorist camp.

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

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