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ps1074 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 03:48 AM
Original message
Four Americans killed in explosion in northern Gaza, Israel Radio reports.
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 03:51 AM by ps1074
Just breaking on CNN International. More to follow... No link yet


GAZA CITY (CNN) -- Palestinian sources reported an explosion hit a diplomatic convoy in northern Gaza Wednesday near Beit Hanoun.

Israel Radio is reporting four Americans are dead. But that report could not be immediately confirmed.
.....
The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv said it is aware of the explosion and is looking into the details.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/10/15/mideast.b...
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh no
It's so sad that there is so much war out there in the world. I wish Bush didn't inflame that region of the world. Now, who knows what is going to happen.
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. AP wire: "massive" "in a car traveling in convoy"
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 04:03 AM by shockingelk
"massive explosion went off Wednesday in a car traveling in a U.S. diplomatic convoy ... There were conflicting reports on casualties. Israeli media said several Palestinians, apparently the assailants, were killed. There was no immediate word on U.S. casualties."

more

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GAZA_EXPLOSI...

Edit: now says suicide attacker, one American killed, four others wounded.

Edit #2: at least two dead, one American, "conflicting reports about the cause of the explosion. Palestinian security officials said a suicide bomber jumped in front of the vehicle, while witnesses said a roadside bomb or land mine apparently went off under the car."
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. the saddest part
is that these kind of attacks are now commonplace, and won't even warrant a mention on the front page of most newspapers.
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. not "common place" in gaza
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 04:00 AM by shockingelk
Suicide attacks are in West Bank.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. true...
I should've been more clear. This is the first one I know of in Gaza.

But the general nature of the attack is what's become so commonplace. When I was younger (back when the world was black & white), this would be giant news plastered on the front page of ever paper. I doubt this will be the lead story in ANY major US newspaper.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. oh this will hit front page
and it will be used by Bush to push his agenda

My question is when are the Marines landing?

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TexasPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. this one will make the papers
it was 4 US citizens - either CIA or maybe Wolf (reports still sketchy)
if it was the US envoy Bush is going to have a hard time not being pissy. hard to spin coverage of that as the efforts of the liberal press.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. according to CNN
Wolf is out of the country. He's not involved.

It'll make the papers, but it won't be the major story, I'm afraid. We've just become inured to this kind of thing. I find that sad.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. It will this was an American Target
ON THE GAZA STRIP, not in Iraq... it will make the papers...

front page, want to bet on this?
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I already said...
it'll make the papers. I said it won't be the top-right over-the-fold story. I'd take the bet, but it wouldn't be fair to you, simply because the timing is off. All American papers have already gone to print, so this story won't be the headliner. Tomorrow, it'll be old news.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Oh trust me on this,
Rove will find a way of doing this... and by the way, my local
paper, weird time, hawaii, just may run it front page, as this
is breaking

Really depends on how far bush wants to run with this... and
whether he wants to go for phase II of PNAC... and this coudl be
the excuse to go after Syria, justified or not

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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Dookus - This was a ** U.S.** Convoy
My guess is it will be all over the news if a single American is killed. Your point is well taken though. The fact is that violence is now back to being so pervasive in the region that covering it takes a back seat. Very sad.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I'll be happy to be proven wrong...
I think the story will be prominent, but probably not the main headline of any major paper.

First off, the timing is bad. All american papers have already gone to print for wednesday's edition. It won't be over-the-fold news for Thursday.

But even if the timing were better, I'd be surprised if it were top news.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
39. Care to bet
I will predict top of the fold in The Washington Post tomorrow, despite the odd time in the news cycle.
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joanski01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I was thinking that bush* would
start another war over this, as soon as he can figure out what country to attack. bush* will certainly use this for his own benefit.
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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. Now They Say Security Guards Dead...
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 04:20 AM by JasonBerry
Four security guards assigned to the convoy says Reuters...
GAZA (Reuters) - Four security guards were killed by an apparent roadside bomb attack against a convoy of U.S. diplomatic vehicles in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, Israel Radio reported.
- snip -
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&s...
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think
*security guard* is the cover for CIA.
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JasonBerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Ahhh......Quite Possible.......errr......uh.....PROBABLE......N/T
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 04:25 AM by JasonBerry
~
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. If they were CIA
as originally reported, THAT MAKES SENSE actually...

You do not want the company to be exposed that way...

And that is irregardless of administration.

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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. forgive my pedantry...
but it's either "regardless" or "irrespective". "Irregardless" isn't a word.

Sorry, just a pet peeve. I agree entirely with your sentiment.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. that is ok,
I do not mind
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. You Sure About That?
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 07:58 AM by jayfish
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/Dicti...

Sorry, but I'm not a fan of nitpicking the spelling or grammar of others.

Jay


-Edited To Correct My Own Grammar :7-
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. yup these were bush brother security firm gaurds hired to protect CIA
convoy in Gaza
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
15. this was because of the wall condemnation veto, imo
and yeah, it's big news and proof that Bush is inept in the region, but his spinmeisters will use it to further their agendas in the region.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. no...
the wall-veto was so recent that it's hard to imagine an attack like this could've been planned and executed in time.

But I agree that the veto will lead to more violence against Americans or American interests.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. But everyone knew the veto was coming, so it's not too far off.
Even if it's just good timing (in the mind of those who supported this attack), it will likely be claimed it was in retaliation for the veto.

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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. maybe a bit recent for that?
perhaps instead for the decades of blind support for Israeli actions in general. :shrug:

seems to have been an improvised landmine, not a humanbomb. I hate initial reports of things, always so contradictory..
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. Check this from AP
Palestinian officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said three Americans were killed and one was wounded. U.S. diplomatic sources said the people in the targeted car apparently were security guards for the U.S. diplomats traveling in the other vehicles.


The body of one of the Americans was taken to Shifa Hospital in Gaza City.


The device went off near a gas station on Gaza's main north-south road. An AP reporter saw a gray wire with an on-off switch leading from the scene of the attack to a small concrete room at the side of the road.


Israeli reports initially said John Wolf, the head of a U.S. peace monitoring team, was in the convoy. However, U.S. officials later said Wolf was not in the region.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1...

Now who could be behind this? HAMAS?

Oh and those guards are Company
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. that's the big question..
who's behind it? I'd be very surprised if it were Hamas. I can't see what they could think to gain from such an attack. That the attack was in Gaza, AND against Americans is baffling. Nobody's taken credit yet, so we'll have to wait and see.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. actually Hamas would not
surprise me, but I would not be shocked if this was
Al Qaida either...

There are a couole other candidates in the religious fold that
fit the bill...and they are smaller, and far more closed up than any of the major players

But I suspect we truly will never know... or somebody
will claim responsibitly fast, or multiple groups will
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. it could've been anyone..
it was probably not a humanbomb as some reports suggest, it seems to have been an improvised bomb/landmine--I see the crater on TV footage, that seems more likely when also combined with this remark from an AP/Guardian article:--

An Associated Press reporter saw a grey wire with an on-off switch leading from the scene of the attack to a small concrete room at the side of the road.

That kind of weapon is not terribly difficult to put together, and it could've been buried at night; the knowledge that the convoy was passing by may or may not have been openly known.

Nobody has taken responsibility for it yet, but "al-Qai'dah" seems an absurd suggestion--it's not like the Palestinians don't already have decades of blind US support of Israel to resent. It may be so that some among them are tried of having such a blatently partial party as a "mediator".

The rhetoric resulting from this will be ugly for the next few days, but it's really doubtful that "the marines" could inflict any sizeable damage or terror on the Palestinians that the US-supplied Israeli army hasn't and doesn't already. For example, just within the last few days the Rafah area of southern Gaza itself was/is the disasterous recipient of an Israeli assault that left children shot, dozens wounded, hundreds homeless, and basic services disrupted/destroyed--what could the US military do to top that? Perhaps an even blinder eye to Israeli oppression than before, or rather just make the consistant US support of it more honest and open.

Initial reports are often unclear & contradictory, perhaps better information of "what" by "who" will be available later in the day.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Hamas & PIJ seem to be denying involvement
it is not in their nature to shrink from such claims.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
28. well well
CNN confirms after two hours yep those killed, three, were
Ameircan, maybe a fought one.

This is not a good day for the US, and this is a watershed
event, lets see how our misleader uses this, or abuses it.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. how this news is used or abused
may reveal something about who caused the blast.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
30. AP story link
massive explosion ripped apart a U.S. diplomatic vehicle Wednesday, killing three Americans and wounding one in the first attack on a U.S. target in three years of Israel-Palestinian fighting....U.S. diplomatic sources said the people in the car were security guards for the U.S. diplomats traveling in the other vehicles. In Washington, State Department officials declined to comment....

The explosion apparently was set off by a remote-control roadside bomb.
Islamic militants, responsible for the bulk of the attacks, have said in the past they have no interest in "exporting" the conflict by taking aim at non-Israeli targets...An AP reporter saw a gray wire with an on-off switch leading from the scene of the attack to a small concrete room at the side of the road....

Mohammed Radwan, a Palestinian taxi driver, said he was at the gas station when the blast went off...."I was about to fill up my car with gas when I saw the American convoy passing," Radwan said. "There was a Palestinian police car in front and then three big (U.S.) cars. When the third one passed, an explosion went off."..Israeli radio reports said CIA officials were traveling in the convoy. Palestinian officials said the diplomats were U.S. monitors. Some of the monitors are from the CIA....

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20031015_451.html



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Saudade Donating Member (373 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
31. Bad News
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 06:07 AM by Saudade
This is very bad news for the Palestinians because it will further allow Sharon to link his war against the Palestinians to Bush's "war on terror" and vice-versa. This reduces any remote possibility that Bush will pressure Sharon on any concession. Furthermore, they can "trace" the perpetrators to any of various countries, like Syria, Iran, etc., providing more excuses for escalation.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. junior will marry Sharon
......this is bad.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. these killed americans worked for brother bush owned private security
firm hired to gaurd CIA ops in Israel?...caller was discussing it on C-Span this morning....
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hussar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. BBC: US urges its citizens to leave the Gaza strip
More soon...........

Mmmmm what's going to happen then? seems so convenient to me :shrug:
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
38. Put On The Tinfoil Hat Before You Read This.
:tinfoilhat:

I was reading this thread shortly before I went to bed last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Now, I don't know what to make of this just yet, but the first thing I did when I woke up this morning was turn on CNN. The very first thing I thought when saw what was going on was -inside job-. What a great way to excuse a US attack on Syria. As I fully awakened in the shower my stance softened a bit so I'm not sure what to think at the moment.

Jay
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