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LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:07 PM
Original message
Uncle Sam wants you – even if you’re 42 years old
July 19, 2005
Uncle Sam wants you – even if you’re 42 years old
By Rick Maze
Times staff writer

The Defense Department quietly asked Congress on Monday to raise the maximum age for military recruits to 42 for all branches of the service.

Under current law, the maximum age to enlist in the active components is 35, while people up to age 39 may enlist in the reserves. By practice, the accepted age for recruits is 27 for the Air Force, 28 for the Marine Corps and 34 for the Navy and Army, although the Army Reserve and Navy Reserve sometimes take people up to age 39 in some specialties.

The Pentagon’s request to raise the maximum recruit age to 42 is part of what defense officials are calling a package of “urgent wartime support initiatives” sent to Congress Monday night prior to a Tuesday hearing of the House Armed Services military personnel subcommittee.

At that hearing, David S.C. Chu, under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness, said he felt the military’s recent problems with recruiting were improving, but that additional incentives would help.

~snip~

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-983408.ph...
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmmm..good luck with those 42 year olds
but I doubt it! :crazy:
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
48. And the wingnuts complain...
...that allowing women into combat roles means relaxing physical standards. Think they'll complain about older men?
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
77. Fanfrickinrastic.....
I'd be eligible for military service again. I'm hoping that this doesn't pass by December....
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. How about this for an incentive
Quit fucking sending people to die in wars for oil.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Next step will be linking military service with pensions.
Seventy year olds won't get their social security unless they pull a three month hitch in Iraq.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Certainly reveals their desperation
to meet those recruitment targets!

Many citizens have no idea just how hard life has been for the last two years for U.S. Army recruiters. They're burning out, going mad, dying or ending up in hospitals due to stress... the pressure being put on them is beyond heavy, it's oppressive.

Right after 9-11, so many people wanted to sign up, fight back, serve and protect, do their part. Even Vietnam veterans were showing up at recruiting offices wanting to contribute. Young adults were eager to shift their career path to include a stint in service.

My how things have changed in just two short years!

This problem is NOT going to be solved in the near term.

And keep in mind, as word gets around the service rumor mill just how bogus were the reasons given by this administration for invading Iraq, the depth of a feeling of betrayal will be significant.

And if the DoD or whoever determines these things starts talking seriously about re-instituting a DRAFT?? Can you imagine how that would go over? Like a lead balloon, I imagine.

I love and respect those who serve in our country's military. They put their lives and sanity and health on the line, disrupt their families and participate in horrors they've never dreamed of seeing. I think the mental health condition of vets returning from Iraq will steadily become a huge concern for us all.

Please remember them and be there for them when they need us!
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. And don't forget--
once you are in, they never let you go. They will send you on multiple tours of Iraq, and then stop-loss you even when your hitch is up. And even after you are out, you are still susceptible to being reactivated, because you go into the IRR for several years beyond the end of your active duty recruitment. Several people have been called up and sent to Iraq when they have only one month left on their IRR commitment.

My nephew was in Iraq from the start of the war. He spent a year there, in Mosul. He is out now and in college (got out May of 2004), but he still has 2 years to go before he can be certain he won't be called up again and shipped to Iraq. His brother, who spent a year in Korea, also got out last May and has two more years left on his IRR commitment, too. We are always worried that they will be called up. I tell them if they are, they should run.

If you let them get you, they will hold onto you and keep sending you into the meat-grinder and keeping you there, until you get killed or lose significant parts of your body.

Anyone who signs up now is nuts.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. I concur! Nuts or sadly naive and idealistic.
Or sadder yet, has few other recourses or avenues of employment! I remember a good friend back in 1968 who was dyslexic to the point his school considered him retarded (without verifying it). They passed him along through elementary and then high school, with one science teacher his senior year having the outrageous gall to call my friend Rick up to the front of the classroom and tell the other students: "This isn't a person; this is a slug."

No I'm not kidding. He was poor and his parents were alcoholics, and he and his two sisters were left in a hot car outside the beer joints while his parents were inside getting drunk. Anyway this guy was really quite normal intellectually, he was just mislabelled and then mistreated accordingly. His grades were worse than abysmal.

Yet his local draft board considered him to be fine cannon fodder to send to Vietnam in 1969! Oh yeah, we can use ya, son. And we'll take care of ya for life afterward (if you live that is), too! Life-long health care, the best you can get! Riiiight.......

So Rick was classified 11-B (a grunt in the Army) and saw a buddy in his new platoon killed by friendly fire just coming in from the latrine in the dark, during his first two weeks incountry. And within another few weeks he watched his by-then close friends in his company running toward him up a hillside literally ON FIRE from napalm that was dropped on them by mistake. He was running too, and made it to the top of the hill where a small group that survived were trying to wave off the air support that was killing them. When he looked around, he was the only one of those he'd seen on fire coming his way to make it to the hilltop.

He couldn't remember that day for years. He also couldn't get VA health care worth a damn until some fellow Namvets and supporters and friends helped him get what he deserved by demanding it, repeatedly. He would go to the VA but give up easily when they put his folder at the bottom of a very tall stack.

And from what I've heard from my vet pals, the IRR commitment isn't the whole story, either. Apparently, if you have EVER served in any of the United States' armed service branches, you are subject to be recalled to serve again at any time until you die. It might not be easy for them to do, but evidently they have the power; and it could be easier than re-instituting a draft.

My recruiter friend was forced to become one only five years from his 20 year retirement date. They moved him to Ft. Collins, CO and said he would only have to do the recruiting job for a couple of years, but then they stretched it to five years -- and then when he turned in his retirement papers, they rejected them! Ordered him to remain in the service and KEEP ON RECRUITING, until they tell him he can leave. He hates the job so much he is trying to get them to let him GO TO IRAQ HIMSELF rather than continue recruiting. His beloved Screamin' Eagles are still over there, I guess, and all along he has said he would have preferred to be with them and not suckering in poor young kids to sign their lives away.

Between all the stop-loss orders and recall-ups and rejections of retirement requests, it's looking like the DoD can no longer hide its desperation when it comes to scraping up enough troops to meet even the barest of needs for staffing levels. I think we're going to lose a whole generation of soldiers -- not all to deaths in combat but to casualties in some form or the other. The recruiters are having to offer significant cash sign-up bonuses (like $30K up front) just to get names signed on the dotted lines. They are being sued for misrepresentations and outright fraud in recruiting tactics. The pressure on recruiters is driving out the "good" ones and leaving only those who bend to the demands of their superiors to produce RESULTS. More warm bodies for Iraq and other destinations of the DoD's choice. Sign up here, boys and girls, see the world! We'll take care of you for the rest of your life and give you the best education you can get!

Just don't try to collect on any of those promises, if you're fortunate enough to survive to retirement or release. Oh, and about that release date we gave you... known in Vietnam as the DEROS, I don't know what they call it now. There's been a little snag on that; we'll have to keep you for another two years. Or four. Or eight. Or........

Now, who else wants a career where s/he can drive a hummer and shoot a powerful gun?

:patriot:

"Welcome back my friends, we're so glad you could attend, to the show that never ends, come inside, come inside." --ELP, circa 1969

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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
47. Yep, Shrub has taken us a looong way from the post-9/11 mood. n/t
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #47
67. Who would have thought we would be happier then?
As compared to now, that is.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
60. Well said!
Thanks!
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I can see where the Workfare Program is headed too
Person needs welfare? Fine, but they are going to spend the time collecting it guarding pipelines in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Don

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. exactly. also, you'll see it offered as an alternative to prison
n/t
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. I think it is already happening on the QT
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. I'm pretty sure it is.
The Army, at least, got very adept at this tactic during Vietnam. A senior in my high school class who repeatedly screwed up in relatively minor ways around town was told by a judge that he could either go to jail or enlist in the Army. Greg chose the Army, but guess what? They wouldn't have him! So he got the jail time.

But that's not typical of the outcome in most instances when a stint in the service is offered as an alternative to jail or prison. I've heard active duty people express their dismay at the caliber of recruit coming in to serve alongside them.

Have you all caught the adverts for a new Stephen Bochco series to be airing I think on TNT beginning July 27? I may have the exact date wrong, but the series is called "Over There," and it is going to be real life stories of soldiers in the war in Iraq.

Knowing what a good job Bochco can do with a dramatic series, I expect this one to focus the attention of millions of Americans on just what this continuing nightmare of a quagmire of a war is doing to those who are compelled to fight in it. "China Beach" came too late to change anything re Vietnam. Other good war series have revealed the tough truths of combat and life as a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine, but not DURING the action portrayed. M*A*S*H showed us Vietnam couched in the Korean "conflict."

This is the first time EVER that I know of where a serious episodic series on TV will be bringing home the horrors of a war that is going on right now.

Wonder how much of an impact on the American psyche that might have?.........

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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. that's what happened to friend of mine during VN war

jail or the Army. He enlisted, did two tours as a chopper pilot, but ' never saw anyone killed. '
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. yippeee!!!!

NOW I betcha we see some action at recruiting headquarters! All of them Yellow Ribbon Warriors will be out in force!

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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Yeah!
They really will be!!
No more boils on butts, no more other priorities, and no more "I'm too damned old to go!" They will all queue up for military service!!!
:sarcasm:

I feel a strong draft on my back and it's not good.
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rats! I just had a birthday...
...and now I'm too old! :sarcasm:
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Give it a couple of months. They'll raise the age limit again. . .
I suspect at 50 I'll be able to enlist again sometime in 2006.
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Naw...
...we'll be drafted by then. ;)

At least there's an election in 2006, so maybe we can get the draft reversed once BushCo inducts us all.

:puke:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
46. If your ex-party regains both houses in 2006, you'll get your chance. nt
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newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Does this mean I'm screwed come draft time?
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oscar111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. WW2- max age? draft ages too?
what were the two ages?

for recruits signing up

for drafting folks

thanks
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. WW2 my grandfather was drafted age 36 or 37, married w/ child
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Don't quote me but I think they were drafting up to age 45 for WW II
Maybe someone else has more accurate numbers but I know for sure it was around 40 + or -.

Don

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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. WWII - 18-34 for draftees, up to 40 (I think) for enlistees.
In WWI men between 21 and 45 were conscripted.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Brrrrrrrr-- gettin' a little drafty in here.
Those repubs had better start stepping up soon. They may not have a choice come springtime.
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. it's creepy when he does his hitler salute

the little dictator
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Springtime for Hitler. n/t
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
71. Great bumper sticker
"VOTED FOR BUSH, TIME TO ENLIST." Right along side those "Support our Troops" magnets. :yoiks:
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think this is good actually
The military is so technical and not so physical plus people live much longer I don't see why not. Plus older people have more ability to think for themselves...I don't know what this means for basic training or "military life" but in terms of survival I know it helped in WWII.
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Mister Mark Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. There are better ways...
#1 - If we didn't have this ridiculous war, the change wouldn't be necessary.

#2 - If the soldiers were paid a decent salary, they could attract a lot more recruits who otherwise work in the private sector.

#3 - Another idea for recruitment: I propose that as long as you are in the military, you are TAX-EXEMPT. This is an idea that I think both Repugs and Dems could support.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. They didn't need to raise it for Vietnam or WWII. Of course there was
the draft. But still - looks like they are WAY up a creek without a paddle. And it looks like our young people are smarter then the usual war freaks. Maybe the age limit is to get all those repub war hawks in.
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dhinojosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. Wow, I am cynical now at 33.
If they draft me at 42, there will be hell to pay!
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priller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. I can't imagine
I'm 44, and I exercise very regularly, not in too bad shape; but my knees are bad, my prostate is swollen, I get the occasional migraine. I can't imagine being a soldier in my condition. In Iraq. How?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
39. think of all of the over 40s that are
over weight! I had back surgery at 46. I have friends my age with other assorted disc/back and knee problems. One fellow I know is having hip replacement at 45!
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
23. Why am I having visions of John Candy in the movie "Stripes?"
Gosh, now I can't use that "I'm to OLD to sign up..." excuse anymore (I'm 41years, 8 months old).

woohoo?

If they do this, they better also let 42 year olds sign up to work for the CIA or FBI too. It pisses me off that I can't even apply to be a CIA analyst.
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. LOL - You just made me slurp my hot chocolate ...
"Stripes" - I just envisioned it. Gawd, what a picture for the US military to carry. Put it on a billboard, I'm sure people will sign up. :rofl: Thanks for the laugh!
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
24. Age should not matter

Only physical and mental ability and medical risks.

If reserves and guard that are in their 50's can be activated and shipped over then I see no reason that people of that age shouldnt be accepted.

Besides, many might have special skills from one or more careers that would be valuable as opposed to having to perform extensive training of younger troops.

Combat roles and other physically demanding jobs might have to be restricted or subject to special qualifying by older recruits, but only part of the forces are in active combat.

People get the sames rights and privileges living in the US, they should have the same obligations.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. Oh, so is this the new and improved GOP Social Security plan?
Send retirees to in as cannon fodder? What a savings!
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
28. Job hunting
I spoke with a recruiter for the army. They had no problem with my age (38) and were offering a starting rank of captain/major.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. There is no rank of Captain-Major

There is a Major-Major though. See Catch 22.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
62. I think what "frustrated_lefty" meant was Captain or Major...
...unless "f_l" was also talking Navy, where I think the rank of Captain is a higher rank than an Army, Air Force, and Marines rank of Major (I think Captain is equivalent to a Colonel in the other services).
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artemisia1 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. Are you a physician?
That is about the only non-prior service specialty that I know of that starts with pay grade O3-O4.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. Not a physician.
A Ph.D specializing in Virology.
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artemisia1 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
64. That'll do it. The commissioned officer corps of the PHS
would probably take you as an O4 if you have sufficient experience. I should have written; physician or allied health professional at the doctorate level. Virology must be a fascinating field. I read "The Hot Zone" and also a recent book on the Influenza of 1918. Scary but interesting stuff.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Me too. Read Hot Zone in 1994
and have followed up since then reading everything I could about the viral threats, especially the hemorrhagic ones. What happened to the lab monkeys and staff at Reston, VA was about the scariest thing I've ever read about! This country was sooo lucky that time ... and it may not be the next time. Especially if any of the bio weapons goes airborne in transmission.

There are a LOT of good novels out there these days exploring this sort of threat to national security, and of course the even larger threat to life and limb of every human on the planet. I happen to think perhaps those terrorist groups who might have considered or even acquired bio weapons have been hesitant to use them because they know the bug could come right back on THEM, no matter what precautions they take. Viro-terrorist in Jordan, say, thinks about releasing a virus in Iraq to get the American troops, then it mutates, becomes a sort of "Motauba," and the whole Middle East gets sick, including those in Jordan, Saudi, Yemen, Libya, Iran, etc.

I was also convinced that Saddam did NOT have bio weapons ready to use at the inception of the March 2003 invasion of Iraq because even though our troops went in initially prepared for them, no bio weapons were loosed on them. Not even chemical weapons! If he'd had them, I feel certain he would have used them then. I'm GLAD he didn't have them, but that was a strong clue that no WMDs were likely to be found in Saddam's labs and research facilities. Coalition troops pulled off their chem-bio suits and proceeded with the invasion unguarded against such weapons. What did THAT tell us?

Come to think of it, though, that's probably another huge reason young folks are very leary of joining up and serving in the armed forces. They KNOW these "sneaky" modern weapons are out there and could be turned on them at any time. Someone gung ho guy who is willing to risk all sorts of conventional warfare might be thinking long and hard about facing chem-bio-nuclear dangers.

I have beaucoup military pals going back to WWII, and most of them come from military families. I think the Vietnam vets have tried very hard to discourage their sons and daughters and even grandsons and granddaughters from enlisting. They know how huge the price can be and how little the govt -- and usually the "grateful citizens" of this great free country -- remember their sacrifices once they are no longer "useful."

So now what are we getting? Tens of thousands of "private contractors" hiring mercenaries and all manner of fighters and "security" personnel to assist the regular troops in Iraq and other locations, with the consequences of THAT move already proven to be very substantial. Remember how Faluja got its reputation? And what a MESS that whole episode turned into?

I can see no other option for the DoD when it simply cannot keep our forces up to full strength any other way. Troop strength has never been optimal in Iraq, and with recruiting get harder every day, what is the DoD to do?

And where will THIS lead? I haven't seen any patriotic support among the American public for the private contractors....

:patriot:

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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
31. Damn! I turn 50 this year!
Can't believe I'm gonna miss this glorious war! I bet they'd look the other way if I lied about my age.....

Bake
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
32. in the last days of the Third Reich
they were taking men up to 60 and boys of 12.

Will it come to that??
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FLSurfer Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. That is interesting.
Why all this time has the age for enlisting, been going up.
It would make as much sense to lower it.
16 and 17 y/o's seem pretty mature. Maybe we could get them to start enlisting. / :sarcasm:
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. In the last days of the American Civil War
the Confederacy was doing the same thing. Not sure about the exact ages, though, but basically any white male that could breathe and walk.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
33. good thing I've got permanent illness on my side
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
40. Hey, I just saw a pinch hitter from the Atlanta Braves and he was 46!
Uncle Sam must be watching baseball.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
41. I guess I now can be happy that I'm 45
I have a huge list of why I'm not happy with being 45, but now this one cancels the rest of them out.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
43. The medical draft cut-off age
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 08:47 AM by rainbow4321
is 44 yrs old....and once the "notice" goes out, they can send you off in 2 weeks. I won't be out of the range til chimpass is out of office, but at this rate, the upper cut off will be 65 y/o. The medical draft could be started withOUT a generalized draft.


http://www.hasbrouck.org/draft/health.html

If you think the draft is just for young men, think again. The first people to be drafted will probably be health care workers. If you're a doctor, nurse, technician, therapist, or other medical professional -- man or woman, age 20 through 44 -- and if Congress authorizes a draft, you could be in boot camp less than two weeks from today.

This leaflet explains how a medical draft is likely to work, what you can do now if you don't want to be drafted, and why we hope you'll join us in draft resistance.

Congress could specify which occupations would be included. It will probably leave it up to the President, who will probably leave it up to the Pentagon. In 1986, when Congress last debated registration for a medical draft, the proposal allowed the President to designate for inclusion any "health-care occupations that are essential to the Armed Forces and in which personnel may not be available to meet the needs of the Armed Forces".

Selective Service says it is prepared to draft people "professionally qualified" in more than 60 medical specialties , including physicians, dentists, psychologists, therapists, dietitians, technicians, nurses, veterinarians, pharmacists, opticians, "other medical care and treatment personnel", and "miscellaneous allied specialists".

Past Congressional proposals would have authorized a draft of medical workers ages 20 through 54, but Selective Service says that "requirements would likely be met" by those 20 through 44. The youngest would be drafted first. Since few physicians are 20 years old, significantly older people could be drafted in at least some fields.


Past Congressional proposals would have authorized a draft of medical workers ages 20 through 54, but Selective Service says that "requirements would likely be met" by those 20 through 44. The youngest would be drafted first. Since few physicians are 20 years old, significantly older people could be drafted in at least some fields.


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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. Veterinarians?!
60 medical specialties , including physicians, dentists, psychologists, therapists, dietitians, technicians, nurses, veterinarians, pharmacists, opticians, "other medical care and treatment personnel", and "miscellaneous allied specialists"

What earthly need does our military have for veterinarians in 2005?

Of course, now that the cavalry era is over, any veterinarian who does get drafted may well end up as personal physician to the Chimp-in-Chief :evilgrin:
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artemisia1 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. Ask the virologist from an earlier post or read
Edited on Wed Jul-20-05 10:14 PM by artemisia1
"The Hot Zone" by Richard Preston. The Army never seems to have enough veterinarians. Also bomb sniffing dogs need medical care sometimes, don't they? If your a Doc, Nurse or Vet or Ph.D. in a medical field - start doing situps, pushups and timed runs!!!!

That is unless, of course, you have a condition similiar to the one that kept uber patriot Rush Limbaugh out of the Vietnam War - a pimple on your but. LOL.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
81. hmmm....Could someone go in place of their son or daughter then?
Edited on Thu Jul-21-05 10:48 PM by alphafemale
I think I'd do that with an Iron-Clad guarantee MY going replaced THEIR going.

On edit...
Meant to reply to main post.
Sorry for any confusion.
I'm not a medical person.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
44. My brother is 38, voted for Bush, time for me to call him
and demand he enlist. Bet he hangs up. Operation Yellow Elephant.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
45. Huh, I'm 41, Maybe I'll do a hitch...
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha, yeah right!

Colossal failure*
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Danmel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
49. For once I can be glad I'm 45
But my kids are almost 15 and 11. Not too much to feel good about these days, is there?
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The Sleeper Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
50. 42 ??? Why that Twern't Nuthin ....
Just found out that my Uncle in the Guard is being sent to Afghanistan. He's 58.
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michaelwb Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
51. Double whammy
Well I'm 41.

And as much as I'd love to serve in a mis-guided, illegal war - I'm morally opposed to war and sit-ups.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
52. A simple solution...
Karl Rove should simply use his unholy powers to raise an army of the undead to police Iraq. Go ahead. Blow 'em up with IED's -- they're already dead!
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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
53. This is more scary than it looks...
I'm 48 and served 4 years in the USMC 1977-1981. I was a helicopter avionics crew chief which gave me a two critical MOS's.

I've never worried about getting sucked back in until now. If they've raised this age, how far back you think they can go to recall people like me? This is something to worry about the next time we get attacked. It's at that point the draft will come back and Bush will claim it was out of his control.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. They've already called up
some retired MD's who are well into their 60s. It has been well publicized.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #53
70. *SALUTE* crew chief!
Ya just missed Vietnam, huh?

A lot of my Namvet pals are getting a little nervous, too. Some are still in very good health (though many are not) and a fair number of them are even still affiliated in one way or another with the military. They seem to feel the threat of mass call-ups is quite real.

As I mentioned earlier, I understand that the IRR commitment does not cover all the reasons or time frames for which veterans can be recalled. Apparently, if you EVER served in the United States armed forces, you can be called up again at any point, for LIFE. That's my understanding, and I have a feeling those who think this may well be correct. Just SOUNDS LIKE how the DoD might work, doesn't it?

Not trying to scare you ... heaven forbid they would go that far and send you a very unwelcome letter ordering you to report for consideration for retraining and deployment. But what ARE they going to do? The situation is extremely difficult for this administration now that its very personal war is turning off millions of American on a daily basis and support for the military action in Iraq is waning steadily. Why would young people or anyone else want to join up when they can tell support for troops now deployed is not so strong anymore? We love them, we put the "Support Our Troops" decals on our cars and fly little flags a lot; but if we don't support the particular deployments they're on, they feel it.

And I don't blame them for the uneasy sense they're getting that the war in Iraq is eroding away public support for their assignment. The first thing troops in Iraq ask those who are arriving incountry these days is: "How is the war playing back home?" Or something along that line.

Truth is, in these times of computer communication between deployed troops and their families and friends back home, most of them KNOW what the mood is back home re the war in Iraq. And it is a grave concern for them.

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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. It'll be the fix for any social security problems they keep it up!
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
58. So, how old is Sean Hannity, anyway?
And what about Stann Coulter? S/he can't be much over 40. This could be a very good thing, indeed.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
61. I was over by the
Pentagon the other day, and let me tell ya, the physical standards are already totally out the window. I saw some seriously chunky folks in uniform over there, and not reservists or ACDUTRAs either. I asked a pal, who told me "No one really gives a shit, these days!"

That's a far cry from the recent past, let me tell you. Once upon a time, during the "force shaping" era when they were implementing Big Dick's Drawdowns, the slightest hint of a love handle or a spare chin would bring down the fitness nazis, looking for any excuse to toss a bit of excess baggage from the rolls. The paranoia level was nothing short of extreme. Of course, once they don't need these chubbies anymore, they'll toss them on the scrap heap, regardless of their sacrifice in winning the Monkey's War. Baaaaastids!
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
66. This is no shit...
I work with a guy who is in his 50's and in the National Guard. He was on vacation in Hawaii when he found out that he had been activated and is to report for active duty on Monday 7/25. Three months in Texas and then a 15 month tour in Iraq. He deserves it for being stupid enough to remain in the guard for so long. I wonder what will be worse, 3 months in Texas or 15 months in Iraq. Iraq is probably a more liberal political climate.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
68. Even if they raise it to 80, there will never be enough 'Murken cannon
fodder to feed the neocons' insatiable lust for oil, war, blood and devastation.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
72. What next
the draft?.
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Empty the prisons!
Coupla million battle-hardened, urban-warfare saavy gang-bangers itching for a ticket out!
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
74. People with allergies or conditions won't be allowed in.
Or has that been nixoned too?
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. Like the Twins?
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
75. "No thank you!" -a smiling Baron Munchausen
"Well I don't wanna go (he won't go)"- Wall of Voodoo

What a lovely way to unify the nation. Against them. Let them try it :-)
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DeposeTheBoyKing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
78. I'll certainly be glad to turn 43 next month!
x(
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
79. And they get a bonus for not talking bad about their experience
in the Army and Iraq. They want referral bonuses to go from $1,000 to $2,500 if a referred recruit makes it through bootcamp, etc. I would imagine it would be harder to get that bonus if you're talking smack. Bribing the whiners to shut up and go get recruits.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
80. There will be serious need for armed forces -near term
so our toddlers are not safe from BushCo's big misadventure.
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. condi said it would be 'generational'

so today's toddlers are indeed at risk.

i am trying to help * out by printing, " ENLIST " on the backs of the bills I mail out.

i've also taken to sending the Sunday Doonesbury out in whatever prepaid envelope I come across.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Fuck their draft.
No one has to go to die when chimpy sez die .Fuck ALL of them.
Let bush fight his war all by himself. The military barbarian fools can threaten bribe and bellyache all day but they cannot MAKE me or ANYONE ELSE obey their"commands" or kill ..and they WILL NOT force any of MY loved ones into that shit either. I am NOT expendable fodder for the rich.The rich will die before I kill for the moneyed scum.
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. picture this


it's christmas day at my husband's daughter's house.

she and her husb are fundies, and i KNOW they voted for *. ( Orange county, CA )

while holding their two toddler boys, they were bemoaning the fact that one of their NG friends was called away from his family to active duty and " children need their fathers and we know there will have to be a draft ".

what i got from it was that OTHERS will have to be drafted so that their friends won't have to leave their families.

i didn't get into it because of the time and place. i just refuse to go down there any more.

i won't have to see them til christmas when i again will be wearing my peace necklace and my black ' I DID NOT VOTE 4 BUSH ' wristband.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
85. related: Pentagon seeks higher age limit for recruits
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=dom...

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Faced with major recruiting problems sparked by troop deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pentagon has asked Congress to raise the maximum age for U.S. military enlistees from 35 to 42 years old.

The request, sent to lawmakers this week, would apply to all active duty branches of the military services, said Air Force Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Pentagon spokeswoman, on Friday. But it is aimed chiefly at the active duty Army, which has fallen far short of recruiting goals this year, by adding millions of potential enlistees.

The Army has provided most of the 140,000 U.S. ground troops in Iraq and has also relied heavily on part-time soldiers from the National Guard and Reserve for year-long deployments there.

<snip>

The Army National Guard, struggling more than any other part of the U.S. military to sign up new troops amid the Iraq war, missed its ninth straight monthly recruiting goal in June.

...more...

I feel a draft coming on.
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