Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jason Leopold: Report Shows Rove May Have Lied to FBI, A Felony

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:27 PM
Original message
Jason Leopold: Report Shows Rove May Have Lied to FBI, A Felony
Jason Leopold: Report Shows Rove May Have Lied to FBI, A Felony
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00227.htm

Report Shows Karl Rove May Have Lied to Federal Agents, a Federal Crime, During Oct 2003 Testimony Into CIA Agent Leak
By Jason Leopold

Looks like Karl Rove did break the law, the same federal law that got Martha Stewart sentenced to six months in prison.

....

On July 6, 2003 Wilson was interviewed for a story that appeared in the Washington Post and accused the White House of "misrepresenting the facts on an issue that was a fundamental justification for going to war." That same day he wrote an op-ed in the New York Times which said that "some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."

The very next day, July 7, 2003, the White House admitted it had erred in including the references about uranium in Bush's State of the Union speech.

Two days later, two top White House officials disclosed Plame's identity to at least six Washington journalists, an administration official told The Post in an article published Sept. 28, 2003.

Those two officials were Karl Rove and Lewis Libby.

The source elaborated on the conversations last week, saying that officials brought up Plame as part of their broader case against Wilson, the Post reported in the Sept. 28, 2003 story.

On July 12, 2003, two days before Novak wrote his column, a Washington Post reporter was told by an administration official that the White House had not paid attention to the former ambassador's CIA-sponsored trip to Niger because it was set up as a boondoggle by his wife, an analyst with the agency working on weapons of mass destruction. Plame's name was never mentioned and the purpose of the disclosure did not appear to be to generate an article, but rather to undermine Wilson's report.

That source was Karl Rove and the unidentified reporter was Walter Pincus who covers the White House.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00227.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. big
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. No....BIG.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
50. No....Really really BIG!
:hi:

Ah, the lies just keep building up....My Mama, (Pacha-oma) always said that once you start to lie, you just have to keep on lying to cover up the lies and pretty soon you forget which lie you told...

Sounds like ole Karl is demonstrating the truth in my Mama's words!

I also think ole Karl, as well as the rest of the adminstration lives in their own "reality" and started to believe their own truths, so much so that they can't tell the truth from the lies....

Wasn't it Napoleon who once said "Never stand in the way of your enemies as they destroy themselves" (or something like that)...

Oh what a tangled web these crooks running our country have woven...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zeke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #50
70. Nahhhhh...
I want Bush Inc out of office, too.
But how many people in the USA read SCOOP on-line?
Not many, so this article doesn't impact like needed.
Keep hoping for a BIGGER STORY DETAIL to break.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #70
87. Here's another link....
http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=1139...

I'm sending it to MSNBC's Countdown at:

Countdown@msnbc.com

I'm also dropping off the link in the DU Activist forum so people can send the link to their favority msm sources!

Also, my link was the first one on Google searching Rove lied :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zeke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. Well, Yes, But...
That's great, but the point is no MSM
outlets pick up these details on their
own.

MSM? What's that? The so-called MSM
doesn't break storeis anymore. Why
aren't Woodward & Bernstein breaking
new Watergates when such stories are
everywhere?

The MSM doesn't pick up stories about
Bush Inc. because the MSM doesn't exist.

The MSM IS the RW Media Machine.

It's hard getting optimistic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is the first unequivocal statement of Lewis being the other official.
Is this merely Leopold's assertion, or is there evidence to back this up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I remember reading that Libby had signed
releases so people could testify. Can't remember which people though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
69. If Libby Were the Source and He Signed a Release,
then why is Judith Miller in prison? Just wondering. Maybe there's another White House official involved who hasn't given a release.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #69
85. Yeah, like Cheney,
for instance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #85
110. How can you do anything when you're on the crash cart?
Where is the dick of amerikkka, anyway, and how come nobody asks but us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #69
109. I don't know the literal answer to your question but I do know this
Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 09:31 PM by Samantha
The same day Wilson's Op-Ed piece appeared in The New York Times, Judith Miller was on the phone with one of her many sources, Dick Cheney. Subsequently, she wrote an article which appeared in ... The New York Times about Iraq in fact attempting to purchase the Yellow Cake from Niger (read trashing Wilson's Op-Ed). Shortly thereafter, Cheney appeared on Meet the Press and backed up the Yellow Cake from Niger assertion. One of the sources he referred to was Judith Miller's article in The New York Times. Coincidence?

I will try to find a link to that thread and you can read some of the info which emerged if you are interested.

Edited to add links:

Heres the link to the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Heres the link to the article cited in Post #77:

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/media/features/922 ...

"Her Iraq coverage didnt just depend on Chalabi. It also relied heavily on his patrons in the Pentagon. Some of these sources, like Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, would occasionally talk to her on the record. She relied especially heavily on the Office of Special Plans, an intelligence unit established beneath Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith. The office was charged with uncovering evidence of Al Qaeda links to Saddam Hussein that the CIA might have missed. In particular, Miller is said to have depended on a controversial neocon in Feiths office named Michael Maloof. At one point, in December 2001, Maloofs security clearance was revoked. In April, Risen reported in the Times, Several intelligence professionals say he came under scrutiny because of suspicions that he had leaked classified information in the past to the news media, a charge that Mr. Maloof denies. While Miller might not have intended to march in lockstep with these hawks, she was caught up in an almost irresistible cycle. Because she kept printing the neocon party line, the neocons kept coming to her with huge stories and great quotes, constantly expanding her access." (All bolded emphasis added)



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I have asked him to comment on this question.... was wondering myself..
Hopefully we may see him here soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Leopold has clarified this point.. Here is his explanation...
This has now been added to the main article too...


During the same week that Rove spoke to Time's Matt Cooper about Wilson, so did Scooter Libby and Libby went on the record for Cooper's July 17, 2003 story.

In an exclusive interview with Time, Lewis Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff, told TIME:

"The Vice President heard about the possibility of Iraq trying to acquire uranium from Niger in February 2002. As part of his regular intelligence briefing, the Vice President asked a question about the implication of the report. During the course of a year, the Vice President asked many such questions and the agency responded within a day or two saying that they had reporting suggesting the possibility of such a transaction. But the agency noted that the reporting lacked detail. The agency pointed out that Iraq already had 500 tons of uranium, portions of which came from Niger, according to the International Atomic Energy Administration (IAEA). The Vice President was unaware of the trip by Ambassador Wilson and didn't know about it until this year when it became public in the last month or so. "
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cugel the Clever Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
67. Was Wilson trip approved by the White House?
Or known about, even? Libby is suggesting that Wilson's mission was not authorized and was, in fact, an attempt to undermine the buildup to invading Iraq.

Leaving aside that Wilson was 100% correct, who in the Administration was in the loop re Wilson's trip? He specifically says Cheney was not, so who was?

This becomes very important to slapping down the pathetic spin thus far generated by BushCo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #67
82. It seems that it was handled through the CIA...the same CIA that
Cheney had been hammering on to get "evidence" that he wanted to use in order to justify invading Iraq. So, I'm thinking that George Tenet, then CIA director, or his staff, authorized the trip.

SOMEBODY paid Wilson's expenses, or authorized the payment. It was clearly not Valerie Plame....Wilson has said repeatedly that she merely told the staff that her husband had experience in that area, and subsequently SOME member of Tenet's staff interviewed Wilson, and decided he should be the one to go.

Tenet was following, I believe, what he had been told by the White House, to look into the Niger issue. He likely assigned his staff to do that. He just FORGOT (?) to tell his staff to make sure it was someone who would tow the party line on trying to make excuses to strike Iraq, and so they could sell the job to the American people, the Congress and the U.N.

My guess is that THIS is why Tenet fell on his sword, and took responsibility for the whole thing: he may have taken for granted that, with Cheney's constant presence over at the agency, that his staff KNEW that they were supposed to send someone who would "confirm" the party line, rather than actually do an honest job of gathering the intelligence.

That is the best I can figure, given all that has come out about who-did-what-when and who-told-who-what. Cheney's office had to be really pissed that Tenet's staff actually sent someone who knew what in the hell they were doing....by Tenet not doing a "proper" job of directing his staff. I think that's why Tenet got the axe, and also why Tenet received some "Medal of Freedom" thing: they sure didn't want him telling anyone WHERE he screwed up.

:kick: :kick: :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #67
90. Welcome to DU!
Glad to have you with us! We need you - and your willingness to get to work...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
74. Thanks, Al.
I especially appreciate that you would take the time to query J. Leopold and that he would answer. I hope he continues to visit DU.

:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well-well-well, look at that.
"Those two officials were kkkarl rove and lewis libby."

And libby's involvment means it goes straight into cheney's office.

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:32 PM
Original message
Even mad geniuses slip up sometimes
Sounds like the WH was in a fit of pique over Wilson's op-ed and Rove stepped into a pile of the brown stuff in his rush to undermine the damaging truth. Not out of character for him in the least.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, baby. This is what I want - tie it to Bush and Cheney. Look here:
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 10:35 PM by Pirate Smile
"Moreover, evidence suggests that President Bush was aware as early as October 2003 that Rove and I. Lewis ?Scooter? Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney?s chief of staff, were the sources who leaked Plame?s undercover CIA status to reporters. And after the president was briefed about the issue the president said publicly that the source of the leak will never be found.

Furthermore, a few aides to Condoleeza Rice, then head of the National Security Council, may have played a role as well by being the first officials to learn about Plame?s role as a CIA operative and giving that information to Rove, Libby and other senior administration officials."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Condi, too?
Sweeet! She can join her "husband," Dumbya, in prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. "the president said publicly that the source of the leak will never
be found"

is that correct
where was that reported here

and i wonder what is the evidence that suggests bush knew as early as october 2003 that rove and libby were the ones who spread the information

what an epic stroke for democracy that mr fitzgerald is at the helm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mokito Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
51. Yes, it's true
some snippets:

...As the story about Valerie Plame, the outed CIA agent, intensified last fall, President Bush told reporters the source of the leak might never be found. Bush stated: "I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official... I don't have any idea. I'd like to. I want to know the truth."

A Tiny Revolution


"I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there's a lot of senior officials." President Bush, on the source of the Valerie Plame outing leak, October 7, 2003.

Perrspectives (third quote)


and for the cherry,

Q Mr. President, how confident are you the investigation will find the leaker in the CIA case? And what do you make of Sharon's comment that Israel will strike its enemies at any place, any time?

THE PRESIDENT: This is the dual question. (Laughter.) I'm trying to figure out if I want to answer either of them, since you violated a major rule. (Laughter.) At least it's not a cell phone. (Laughter.)

Randy, you tell me, how many sources have you had that's leaked information that you've exposed or have been exposed? Probably none. I mean this town is a -- is a town full of people who like to leak information. And I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there's a lot of senior officials. I don't have any idea. I'd like to. I want to know the truth. That's why I've instructed this staff of mine to cooperate fully with the investigators -- full disclosure, everything we know the investigators will find out. I have no idea whether we'll find out who the leaker is -- partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers. But we'll find out.

The White House transcripts (near the end of the page)




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #51
59. it's a town full of leaks = "everybody's doing it so why can't we?"
The same excuse used by teenagers everywhere for centuries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
111. Really? THEN HOW ABOUT CALLING EVERYONE INTO THE GODDAMNED EAST ROOM AND
Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 09:33 PM by TankLV
ASK THEM ALL ALL AT ONCE?!!!!

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THE FUCKING PRESIDENT!!!!!

of course, we were shouting this all a long time ago.

Notice the crickets chirping.

Why, oh why, can't the whore media do its job?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. It's all part of the White House Iraq Group (WHIG)...the members....
...included but were not limited to:

Depiction of Threat Outgrew Supporting Evidence
By Barton Gellman and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 10, 2003; Page A01

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39500-2003Aug... >

"The group met weekly in the Situation Room. Among the regular participants were Karl Rove, the president's senior political adviser; communications strategists Karen Hughes, Mary Matalin and James R. Wilkinson; legislative liaison Nicholas E. Calio; and policy advisers led by Rice and her deputy, Stephen J. Hadley, along with I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
38. a few aides to Condoleeza Rice
hmmm. Who would those aides be? Why, I do believe Mr. John Bolton was a top aide to Condoleeza Rice at that time. My, my.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Algomas Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
49. Those aides to Condi should be squeezed...
I think then we will hear the name Bolton as the source for suggesting Plame be used to punish Wilson.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
104. Whoah!!! The conspiracy of the BOGUS WMD!!!
Fitzgerald is right in the middle of it all!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. So ... Bush's top guy and Cheney's top guy were the sources.
Are we still expected to believe that Bush* and Cheney knew nothing about it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Libby made one ad lib too many , hmmmm.
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 10:43 PM by Pithy Cherub
The soap opera continues. stay tuned for these exciting questions:

Will Mr. Libby take a dive and prison time to protect Darth Cheney?

Did Mr. Libby share this with Judy?

Will Judy, gasp, realize she's in jail because someone else already ratted Libby out? She's just a decorative accessory that affirms orange is this WH's color!

Was that other person Tweety of "Hardball" infamy and he sang so long to the GJ that he's buying them Holiday presents this year...

Oh, MY... :freak:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
short bus president Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. wow.
I had this weird sorta flashback thing and ready "Libby" as "Liddy" throughout your post...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. It is replete with Watergate de ja vu,
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 11:25 PM by Pithy Cherub
and Iran Contra political castoffs/retreads who staff this White House's "executive" team.

Libby=Liddy Rove=Haldeman Bush=Nixon...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wow!
If this is true, they're all going to jail.

Can Bush pardon anyone if he himself is under indictment? Can Congress block him (and with enough public outrage, they'll fall into line and do the necessary - elections in 2006).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. here's what the little britches daddy did
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_27.htm

excerpt:

6 Former Defense Secretary Caspar W. Weinberger was indicted by a federal Grand Jury on June 16, 1992, on five counts of obstruction, perjury and false statements. He was to be tried on January 5, 1993. Weinberger was pardoned by President Bush on December 24, 1992.

and

66 Abrams pleaded guilty October 7, 1991, to two misdemeanor counts of withholding information from Congress about secret Government efforts to support the contras during the Boland period. He was pardoned by President Bush on December 24, 1992.

also here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chron.htm

Dec. 24, 1992: President Bush pardons Weinberger, Clarridge, McFarlane, Fiers, Abrams and George. Independent Counsel denounces pardons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. which is why this slime is still around
Somehow we thought that with Bill winning we would be safe from this crap. Little did we know that they would steal the election. Oh, please this time, let us be able to clean the whole nest of vipers from the face of the earth. Traitors receive the death penalty. A firing squad at dawn on the wh lawn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. That's precisely why the independent counsels should NEVER
tip their hands as to when they plan to start the trial or even hand down the indictments.. GHWB was officially out of office on Jan 20..they should have handed down the indictments after Clinton was sworn in, and added GHWB to the list :).. It would have been too late for him to pardon anyone, and Clinton could have shrugged it off with a "Hey..It's an on-going investigation" :)Lord knows HE was being investigated from the day he announced he was running..

Wouldn't that have been sweet to see all of those bastards cooling their heels in jail, instead of sitting down it Texas for 8 years...plotting the take over of the country/world/universe via *²..


Never miss an opportunity to take down a criminal.. Every time you let them go, they always come back to haunt you :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
112. Just like crab grass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
41. That's precisely why the independent counsels should NEVER
tip their hands as to when they plan to start the trial or even hand down the indictments.. GHWB was officially out of office on Jan 20..they should have handed down the indictments after Clinton was sworn in, and added GHWB to the list :).. It would have been too late for him to pardon anyone, and Clinton could have shrugged it off with a "Hey..It's an on-going investigation" :)Lord knows HE was being investigated from the day he announced he was running..

Wouldn't that have been sweet to see all of those bastards cooling their heels in jail, instead of sitting down it Texas for 8 years...plotting the take over of the country/world/universe via *²..


Never miss an opportunity to take down a criminal.. Every time you let them go, they always come back to haunt you :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. Tis a shame Elliot Abrams is not in the frame this time round the bush....
He would then potentially have the distinction of getting pardoned twice for treason...

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #42
66. Au contraire....
Elliot Abrams IS part of this administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
architect359 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
115. Unfortunately
It is true but they're not going to jail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Cheney's toast!!!
Maybe Bush, too.

This does it for the whole bunch of them. This has conspiracy written all over it. Not only conspiracy to out a NOC, but there's been two years of obstruction of justice on top of it.

Cheney is toast because Libby cannot be the source of the Plame info. He wouldn't have had the need to know a NOC's ID. But Cheney was over at the CIA all the time during the run-up to war, trying to "fix the intelligence". He would have access to that information.

CIA --> Cheney --> Libby --> Rove

With Libby and Rove doing the dirty work.

Interesting, the common element here is WHIG, which included all the principles, plus Rice and Hadley (her deputy), Matalin and Hughes, and possibly Fleischer. Their job? To find a justification for the war.

Now does anybody think that this many high ups are doing things without the President knowing about it?

Man, the whole house of cards is going to tumble on this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. I read Joseph Wilson's interview today at Raw Story...
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 11:35 PM by hang a left
He states that Scooter would HAVE had the type of clearance needed to find out about Valerie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. [Q] Would Scooter act on this without Cheney's approval?
That's an important question.

There's another source of the NOC ID mentioned in the article above. Rice and her staff were also active at the time. Leopold theorizes that Rice, or one or more of her staff, could have been the source of Plame's NOC status. If that were the case, she'd be toast.

And here's where it gets a bit sticky. In October, 2003, Bush claimed, "I don't know if we're going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there's lots of senior officials. I don't have any idea."

So, by Oct of 2003, the cover-up was already in high gear. It's inconceivable that all this was going on, and with the press breathing down the neck of the White House, and Congress stirring about hearings, that Bush didn't know that two of the people closest to him and to his vice-president were the leakers. There was a cover up. That's obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice.

It's just

inconceivable that Bush didn't know and wasn't part of it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I don't think for one minute that either ** or chaingang were in on it
from the get. I just hope it can be proven.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Shouldn't that be "were NOT in on it" n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
113. What press - what breathing?
They were only interested in the Swift Boats or some other such nonsense.

The press has been absent for just over 5 years now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
46. This President????? let me think.......YEP
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
68. I agree they're toast...but why would Cheney have a need to know?
I'm betting on Cheney being involved/in-the-loop...but I'm still thinking Bolton's the guy who came across Plame-Wilson's job at CIA.

Bolton (or that guy who just took his job) to Rice and/or Libby, approved by Cheney to go back through Libby, add Rove, and out to the press.

In the parlor.

With the candlestick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #68
83. cheney
has his finger in every pie. of course he knew.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
77. What dept does Cheneys daughter work for.....State? CIA?DIA?
I wonder if she too may be mixed up in retrieving information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Rove in a perjury trap? Not as good as a bear trap...but it's a start.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. No wonder Bush is being so quiet
This administration is even dirtier than the Nixon administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. That's why he and Cheney lawyered-up when this story first appeared....
...in public.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
84. way dirtier
because it's all about the $$$$.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. how reliable is the source?
looks like a somewhat biased site (not that I dont agree with them)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
52. You've never heard of Jason Leopold?
Jason Leopold spent two years covering California's electricity crisis as bureau chief of Dow Jones Newswires. He has broken numerous stories on the financial machinations Enron engaged in and his investigative pieces on the company have been published in The Nation, Salon, The Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, The San Francisco Chronicle, CBS Marketwatch, Time magazine, The New York Times, Forbes, Entrepreneur and numerous other publications. Mr. Leopold left Dow Jones last April to write a book about California's electricity crisis.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. cool, thanks
I guess if Libby turns out to be the source, I'll be able to trust him
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jal Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. From Jason Leopold
During the same week that Rove spoke to Times Matt Cooper about Wilson, so did Scooter Libby and Libby went on the record for Coopers July 17, 2003 story.

In an exclusive interview with Time's Matthew Cooper on July 17, 2003 for the same article in which Rove was a key source, http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,465270,0...

Lewis Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff, told Cooper: "The Vice President heard about the possibility of Iraq trying to acquire uranium from Niger in February 2002. As part of his regular intelligence briefing, the Vice President asked a question about the implication of the report. During the course of a year, the Vice President asked many such questions and the agency responded within a day or two saying that they had reporting suggesting the possibility of such a transaction. But the agency noted that the reporting lacked detail. The agency pointed out that Iraq already had 500 tons of uranium, portions of which came from Niger, according to the International Atomic Energy Administration (IAEA). The Vice President was unaware of the trip by Ambassador Wilson and didn't know about it until this year when it became public in the last month or so. "



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Welcome and thanks for that post. Libby lied. We all know Cheney tasked
Wilson for this. Why has cheney lied so much about his role where Wilson and his report are concerened?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
76. Careful...we all know Cheney's office asked CIA to investigate
There's no proof (nor was it actually suggested by Wilson) that Cheney tasked Wilson.

The official, and seemingly agreed-on position by everyone except the RNC/RW pundits, is that Cheney's office asked CIA, and CIA asked Plame-Wilson if Joe Wilson would investigate the Niger claims (NOT the Niger docs), and the report was submitted to Cheney's office.

Where Cheney appears to be lying is in the assertion that he didn't know about Wilson's report until after the story broke. This would require that he be so interested in the Niger information that CIA set up an op to investigate, but then he didn't give a shit about the answer. Incontheivable, as Wallace Shawn would say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Hi Jason....
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 11:53 PM by althecat
:yourock:

I added your three paras to the original... hopefully in the correct place... I hope you enjoy it around here... this is such a fantastic place.

Also you might want to have a look at this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

in particular post #50
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I originally posted it as a joke... but as you see it seems to make a peculiar sort of sense... even if it is a setup. Truly rovian.

Al (from Scoop)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jal Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Hi Al
You're the best! Thank you for bringing the Libby queries to my attention.

I don't know what I'd do without you, Al.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
89. Welcome to DU! So cool that you're here!
MOST intriguing stuff you've got here. Keep up the good work!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jal Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
116. Hey Al
Al, thanks for allowing me to join the club! Check out this story the NYT that was just published. Confirms much of my story from last night. Glad we broke it first!

Yer buddy
Jason

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/politics/16memo.html?...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kurtyboy Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Now, THAT's the paragraph I'm Talkin' About...
Edited on Thu Jul-14-05 11:58 PM by kurtyboy
Paraphrased---Scooter Libby told Matt Cooper that the VP was asking questions about African Uranium, and the Intel community was responding as quickly as they could--

TOTAL CORROBORATION with Joe Wilson's story--VP asked, CIA got answers - in this case through Wilson's junket.

All those Mehlman crap-points about "Wilson's-lying" purposefully trickle into the shit-bucket of history.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
58. Welcome to DU!!!
:yourock:

Excellent piece!

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
73. Wow, welcome to DU!
Great to have you aboard. I followed your West Coast power market stories closely.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jal Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #73
102. You are all too kind
Thank you for the rolling out the welcome mat. It's very much appreciated. I too hope this story has legs. Considering the evidence in the public domain it seems clear that questions should be asked about what Rove told the FBI..

Jason Leopold
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
106. Hi "Exposing Injustice"
Welcome to DU, my friend. Admire your perseverance.

:hi:

Susu
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. Condi shared the info !!!
That makes perfect sense. She would have that kind of clearance to get that info for sure. That is the one shoe I have been waiting to fall. Add up all the lies, all the "mushroom cloud" references and you have a motive to keep Wilson quiet. If she did tell him to take it to the press, I would guess that she was hedging her bets that no one would print his allegations. Guess the joke was on her. Rove didn't have all of them scared quite well enough.

As for Tweety, well, we all heard him say that Rove told him that Plame was fair game. That's a no brainer. Just wish I could remember when he said that and what the timeline was that Tweety shared that tidbit.

Time to revoke this entire administration's security clearance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. Put this together with the NYT article?
I really need help here.

The unnamed source speaks to the Times reporters "The person who provided the information about Mr. Rove's conversation with Mr. Novak declined to be identified, citing requests by Mr. Fitzgerald that no one discuss the case. The person discussed the matter in the belief that Mr. Rove was truthful in saying he did not disclose Ms. Wilson's identity."

At first I thought it was someone from Fitzgerald's office, but now I'm thinking this is a WH source.

Rove knew in June about Plame? And confirmed on July 8 to Novak after Libby set Novak on the scent? They KNEW in June that NO ONE should speak of Plame as CIA and did it anyway?

He knowingly disclosed. They knowingly disclosed.

So the Times article is what? A desperate plant to make it seem as if Rove were innocent?

Is somebody putting together a very logical timeline I could follow? Because my head is about to explode.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I can make it explode... READ THIS...
This came up in another thread. About AP reporting that Rove is now claiming that he heard about Plame being in the CIA from a reporter...

What if that reporter was Judith Miller....

That might explain her reluctance to talk to Fitzgerald in the face of Rove giving his contacts clearance to do so... and it might also explain the NYT's peculiar take on things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. So who's our new sieve in the FBI?
Clearly, someone is not impressed with the Republican spin.

But I STILL don't know why the Times is buying it. If Judy is protecting Libby.....her bosses know it. Don't they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. Or Judith Miller realizes that she has been set-up to appear to be....
...the source. The lesser of two evils in her mind is to spend time in jail.

I don't for a million dollars believe that anyone outside of the NeoCon inner circle was the leak in this case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Still, who told HER? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #37
65. She's PNAC, OSP, and a tool for the neocons
I need to google around and find the articles on her activities in Iraq when she was with a group searching for WMDs. She basically ran the damn brigade, giving orders.

She has a free pass with the Cheney admnistration and she is NOT a reporter....that is only her cover
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buddha8 Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #65
99. Leopold
A good artcile and hopeful. Only problem is that Rove ain't no Martha Stewart. Sorry. Rove owns Washington folks. You don't ever get him on a felony or obstruction charge. Look at all the other power players that are vulnerable. They are running the system now. They are not interested in the rule of law. They create their own reality. If Fitzgerald does bring down indictments they will either simply fire him or create a massive diversionary campaign such as a staged domestic terror attack and declare martial law. I am serious. Assuming any of these guys will go quietly is dangerously naive and absurd. Oh and incidentally, a couple of press conferences aside, they own the Media. The message is already out that anyone who presses this story will be targeted. I am sure of this. They always work with intimidation.

The next step in their strategy will be to anticipate indictments and then smear Fitzgerald using the Media to frontrun it. If all else fails they will most definitely create an hysterical domestic incident to divert press attention and institute a period of martial law. The public will quickly forget all this stuff, grovel in fear and follow right along. Those who then took issue with Rove will be isolated and neutralized, their jobs will be taken. This would include the reporters who have persisted all week at the McClellan hearings. People assume this can't happen because they are still insisting we live in a functioning democracy. We are not living in a democracy. We are living under a junta that rules by power,propaganda and intimidation and if it needs to step it up to another level, it will not hesitate. It has always gone on outrageous offensives whenever it appears to be weakening. This time its offense will be a full court press in my opinion. I wouldn't be gloating now. I would be anticipating.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. Welcome, buddha8, and I fear you may be dead-on right....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
54. then throw in her histrionic claims that she won't talk
because she fears for her life (or something to that effect.) Nah, Judith, you fear being exposed completely as a propogandist - we know it already - but this would put the deniers out in the field with us. Because then the question is - who told you Judy - how would you know that tidbit - and what were you doing with that classified materials?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
64. Yup. She's in it up to her eyeballs
You can just smell it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
75. That was when Cheney aides became aware of Wilson's mission"
So they're claiming Cheney first heard about Wilson's mission in the paper?

Who could possibly buy that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
79. hmmm...howbout Bolton/Rice/Libby -> Chalabi -> Miller ~>Rove
I use the tilde to Rove because it's BS that Rove didn't already know.

But then why wouldn't Miller *write* the story. Why go through such an elaborate charade, and NOT get the leak out.

And on top of that...to give Novak *two* senior admin official sources would completely undermine the charade.

Nah...I think Rove's just lying again. THis is yet another trial balloon...like Maxwell Smart: "Would ya believe...?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
105. Well Once you Lie Karl You Perjured but maybe Rove is saying
I'm not the ONLY ONE GOING DOWN HERE DICKEY!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
53. It could be that Rove's job was to confirm
Don't reporters prefer to have 2 sources when they are on a big story? Someone (possibly Libby) was designated at the original leaker and then reporters were told to get their confirmation from Rove - who says things like -"I heard that too, or "you know that?", etc.etc. - clearly designed as the wink and the nod. This explains why some calls were made to Rove as opposed as being from Rove. It's still an orchestrated effort and does not get him off the hook. The reporters need to testify who told them to call Rove for confirmation.

But the story has circles within circles and a big ripple effect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. Next stop:
Federal ---- -- -- --- --- prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
44. SO?
Who's gonna do anything about this?

My guess: nobody

Is it on CNN, MSNBC, FOX?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. If the facts are verified, we can get it on AAR
from there, countdown perhaps, after that other MSNBC shows. I urge everyone to email this far and wide to morrow
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
45. I love this quote
Sen. Frank Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, responded to the presidents statement in an Oct. 10, 2003, interview with the New York Times.

If the president says, 'I don't know if we're going to find this person,' what kind of a statement is that for the president of the United States to make?'' Lautenberg asked. Would he say that about a bank-robbery investigation?


This is getting VEDDY interesting!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #45
55. But what about the 2nd part of that same quote?

"I have no idea whether we'll find out who the leaker is -- partially because, in all due respect to your profession, you do a very good job of protecting the leakers. But we'll find out."

YOU DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF PROTECTING THE LEAKERS

I can't decide if it is gloating, a compliment, or even almost a subtle threat. And this is said specifically to the NYT!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wrate Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #55
98. Maybe it's an order :) n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
48. This is really getting deep, thank goodness ...
the WHIG group had Mary Matlin involved. I remember from another topic, that's why Carville could sit across from Novak. Poor James, Mary may end up seeing the inside of a cell too. I also remember at the time Libby's name was floating around. This is bigger than "Watergate" - worse than Iran-Contra with some of the same players being involved in both. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #48
93. Agree. The sooner the focus is off just one person, the more comfortable
...I'll be.

I dislike the dems tendency to put all eggs in one basket and risk all with too much narrow focus on one aspect of a bigger issue. The more we can talk about WH patterns, multiple complicit officials, and how this issue is symbolic of 5 years of deceipt and lies, the more bulletproof and more damning our arguments are.

I'd even suggest that we use Rove's name less and start referring him as Bush's senior administration official in charge of domestic affairs. Maximize how much his disgrace sticks to the administration.

This is an ADMINISTRATION problem. I'm sure that no one here thinks that Rove is the only administration official capable of crap like this. This is a dysfunctional, rogue, power-grabbing administration full of ideologists and corporatocracy lobbyists....and Rove is an opportunity to show the public what this group is like.

As others have theorized, Rove's exposure may very well be a deliberate calculated attempt to take heat away from others in the administration and from other issues (DSM, Iraq failure, Abu Ghraib, etc). Let's keep the heat on the adminsitration where it belongs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
57. Any Day Karl Rove Breaks Only ONE Law
is either a slow day, or signs of a vestigial conscience in the man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
60. Yeah, and 6 months for Martha and her lies did not compromise
National Security and the very LIVES of other people. I don't care WHO goes, cause if you all believe Novak is going to sit back and be the fall guy, fuggedaboudit. Little guys ALWAYS scream, squeal, point to other and talk faster than ANYONE if they can stay out of jail. You all know that, it is the very foundation of our justice system, from small time criminals to the bigs.

Karl is going down, at the MINIMUM 6 months for lying to the FBI just like Martha. I believe it will be more. My WISH is Novak gets some time, but unlikely, however, I believe his career is over for a while.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. "Karl is going down, at the MINIMUM 6 months"
Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 07:19 AM by Massachusetts
It would be nice if you are right, but its only the slimmest of chances he may get indited (IMO).

This country is RUN BY Corporations and Special Interest Groups, the AVERAGE American is just a COURT JESTER in this Tragic Comedy, called AmeiKan Politics aka Democracy.

Boy I'm just Full of Optimism today!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #60
108. I wonder.
I wonder if there's a connection to "Capital Gang"'s being cancelled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CGrantt57 Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
62. No sense of history...
I said it in another reply and I'll say it here: Karl Rove is another Casper Weinberger.

For those of you who don't remember, Casper was working for Poppy Bush and caught up in all the Iran-Contra scandal. So caught up that an indictment was issued.

The ink on the indictment wasn't even dry when Poppy summarily pardoned him.

Look for the same from the Dim Son.

Karl Rove is now, and will remain, a free man.

Sorry, folks, but, that's the way it is when they hold all the reins of government.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #62
71. Unfortunately, you're probably right.
Shrub likely has a back up plan to pardon Rove if there's an indictment. Bush Sr. was probably called to give advice on how it should be done.

Welcome to DU CGrantt57! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CGrantt57 Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
96. Thanks for the welcome....
I mean, I wish I could indulge in some schadenfreude, like the rest of you, but, I remember only too well how smarmy and underhanded the Bush's are.

Not only will Rove walk, he'll probably get a "medal of freedom" from President Bunnypants*.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
63. Was he under oath?
If he was he is screwed...every wingnut loves to bring up the fact that Clinton LIED UNDER OATH.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mistahkleeen Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #63
72. The dam's going to break
these people can only cover this thing up for so long.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #63
81. Doesn't matter if he was questioned by the FBI - ask Martha Stewart
She wasn't under oath either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
78. Wow!!
"Moreover, evidence suggests that President Bush was aware as early as October 2003 that Rove and I. Lewis Scooter Libby, Vice President Dick Cheneys chief of staff, were the sources who leaked Plames undercover CIA status to reporters. And after the president was briefed about the issue the president said publicly that the source of the leak will never be found.

Furthermore, a few aides to Condoleeza Rice, then head of the National Security Council, may have played a role as well by being the first officials to learn about Plames role as a CIA operative and giving that information to Rove, Libby and other senior administration officials."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The White Tree Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
80. Funniest part of this entire article:
By Wilsons own account, he said he ratcheted up the pressure on the White House to come clean about its error in giving credence to the Niger uranium claims by calling some present and former senior administration officials who knew then National Security adviser Condoleezza Rice, asking his colleagues to tell Rice she was flat wrong in saying on NBC's "Meet the Press" on June 8 that there may be some intelligence "in the bowels of the agency" but that there was no doubt the uranium story was true.

Wilson said Rice told him through intermediaries that she was uninterested in what he had to say and urged Wilson to tell his story publicly if he wanted to state his case. So he did.

Talk about hubris. According to Wilson she actually told him to go public rather then listen to his case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SuperWonk Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #80
86. The question I have...
Is what does Judith Miller know... Isn't that the real story here?

What have we heard from her??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
88. Confirming implications: Rove and Libby Go Down in Plames!!
Rove is both a main source (for Cooper) and a confirming source for another (Novak). With 6 initial sources and at least 3 confirming sources (both as reported), someone would have to coordinate the operation, assuring the initial callers that no two called the same source, that no one was overly eager, but would "drop it in," and a number of other officials would be ready and willing to confirm.


Therefore at least 2 people(Rove and Novak's initial source) served as main sources. (The fact that one source released Cooper from his agreement of confidentiality but one source did not release Miller also suggests at least 2 sources.) Rove would have to coordinate! To establish guidelines like: No source should call another's contact, Pitch the information off hand, not as the main subject, Make the contact think the source is trying to do him or her a favor ("Don't go too far out on this Wilson thing, I don't want you burnt."), etc. AND Rove would have had to field a group of officials to support the sources stories.

I say Rove coordinated because it is obvious he did so since anyone in the administration in possession of the Plame-Wilson-CIA link would have gone straight to the world master of deceitful politics, and now we know Rove was at least one of the leakers.

So, we could have at least 2 indictments for Rove (exposing and conspiring to expose) and (perhaps) 1 or more indictments for others (Novak and/or Miller's source). Not to mention exposure of those who condoned and confirmed the exposure.

I think the great thing we have going for us on this case is Patrick Fitzgerald. By all accounts a fine prosecutor.


Wow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bj2110 Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
92. Perhaps someone could help me re: Bush Jan 2003 State of the Union:
Quote from above article:

"President Bush misspoke when he said in his January 2003 State of the Union address that Iraq acquired yellow-cake uranium from Niger."


The closest quote I can find in the whitehouse.gov transcript of the state of the union is this:

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. "

Has this quote been toned down, or was it originally this vague?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #92
94. History just keeps changing in the hands of these thugs.
:toast:

He really says that:

British sources indicate Saddam has attempted to aquire yellow-cake uranium from Niger.

(that's 12 of the 16 words)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. I watched a replay not too long ago and I believe he used "Africa"
Which if you think about it, makes them twice as weasely and waffely - Tenet among others had already objected to Niger in a previous speech and did not notice when they sneaked this back into the State of The Union, or at least that's my understanding.

Imagine them talking among themselves: "Well, how about if we don't specifically say "Niger", since that has been disproved?" They are quite the wordsmiths and parsers. I thought that was what they hated about Clinton. I thought Bush was "plain-spoken" and would bring honor and dignity back to the White House. Oh yeah, those are just words too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. Right! State of the Union:
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
95. Another link: Irrelevant GOP claims
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
100. Also, RedEarth of DU posted the link to John Dean's latest speculation
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html
It Appears That Karl Rove Is In Serious Trouble
"The Randel Precedent -- If Followed -- Bodes Ill For Rove

Karl Rove may be able to claim that he did not know he was leaking "classified information" about a "covert agent," but there can be no question he understood that what he was leaking was "sensitive information." The very fact that Matt Cooper called it "double super secret background" information suggests Rove knew of its sensitivity, if he did not know it was classified information (which by definition is sensitive)."


With thanks to Amazing Stories and William Carter Sawtelle

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
107. I wonder if karlturd rove
ever wishes he had just not tried to retaliate against Joe Wilson for speaking the truth on the Niger "yellowcake"?

I wonder if it ever crosses his mind that maybe he shouldn't have gone traitor and outted "Wilson's Wife", the undercover CIA agent, as payback?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
114. YAHOO
:argh: I'm wondering if anyone else has had a problem with Yahoo news lately. They won't let anyone discuss any news items regarding Rove, Bush or Iraq!! Can't even get on these boards, so we've been clicking on any news story that will accept discussion, and talk about whatever we want to, mostly "TURD BLOSSOM" Did I miss something? Are we already in the beginning of a "police state"? What's happened to our rights of free speech?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
117. Are we to believe Bush and Cheney weren't aware of Plame scenario?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 19th 2014, 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC