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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:23 PM
Original message
U.S. has no good options for Iraq, experts say
<<SNIP>>
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/politics/1207...

U.S. has no good options for Iraq, experts say

BY RON HUTCHESON

Knight Ridder Newspapers


WASHINGTON - (KRT) - In the swirling debate over Iraq, all sides agree on one thing: There's no easy way out.

Every approach to ending U.S. involvement carries the risk that President Bush's ambitious effort to transplant democracy will end in chaos and create an oil-rich haven for terrorists. Even the most hopeful predictions envision a fragile democracy struggling to overcome ruthless insurgents and divisive internal tensions.

"There are no good options," said Christopher Preble, a national security specialist at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. "I believe that withdrawal is the least bad of the set of bad options."

Advocates of other strategies, including those who think Bush is on the right track, acknowledge risks in their choices as well.

"There are going to be thousands more casualties and we're going to spend $4 billion to $8 billion a month for some time to come," said national security expert Anthony Cordesman, who backs Bush's plan but accuses the president of downplaying the human and financial toll. "It's going to take years."

<</SNIP>>
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. GTFOOT
Get the f*ck out of there. PRONTO.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. the "experts" say, that is the best of the worst....
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Never happen till thrown out - the bases
- the permanent bases. No Bush will pauperize us all first.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. "withdrawal is the least bad of the set of bad options"
add to that a war crimes tribunal and maybe you have a option you can put in the "good" column
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Schumer is asking for $100 million more for rail security
we could spend that 40-80 times over, every month, if not for this war.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. How about:
(1) We impeach Bush.

(2) Indict his entire administration for obstructing justice, abusing their power and defrauding the public.

(3) Nationalize Oil.

(4) Get the UN to establish a "peaceful" presence...

oh, and

(5) Draft all the young men who voted Republican in 2000 and 2004.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. (2.5) Seize his and everyone else's assets to pay for war costs.
I think "search and seizure" would be appropriate in this case.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Absolutely. Halliburton needs to give it up.
Restitution time!
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. (6) Turn them over to the insurgents wearing
Spanking new "Bring 'em on" and "Mission Accomplished" tshirts.

So, Mr. Blair, are they bringing 'em on enough for you? How about you, Mr. Bush? Nice last throes, eh?
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I like that idea
How about on the bottom: "Our resolve cannot be shaken."
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. What are those things called? Public pillory?
We'll dress them up as you say and display them on a pillory.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Well, to be optimistic, if we accomplish 1-4
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 03:57 PM by meganmonkey
we won't need #5. Which is good, because while they may deserve to spend some time in a war zone, they probably wouldn't be very good under that kind of pressure. 'Ohhhhh, waaahhh, I want my mommy....'
}(
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Now - THATS a plan!
.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. And they thought we didn't have one.
Ha!
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. If you are running for president...
I'll vote for you.
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Gore vidal said it, "W' will be reviled more than any pres. in history.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Raise your hand if you're an "expert" who could have predicted this
three years ago...
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I was just about to post the exact same thing.
...President Bush's ambitious effort to transplant democracy will end in chaos and create an oil-rich haven for terrorists. Even the most hopeful predictions envision a fragile democracy struggling to overcome ruthless insurgents and divisive internal tensions.

It was not a huge stretch to predict this scenario. I could never understand all the optimism this administration had regarding this operation. Made no fucking sense at all.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. Yoo hoo
Hand waving like a sumbitch over here in the corner.

Don

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. My hand ...
is up. I have feared all of this since I heard in 1999 that Bush was approached by the PNAC.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. The narrow, narrow slit of US consensus thought...
...may see "no good options" in Iraq.

But as Norman Solomon reminds us in his recent piece, the ironically titled "Withdrawal Would Cripple U.S. Credibility," this is exactly what the establishment told us about Vietnam.

Wasn't true then. Ain't true now.

http://counterpunch.com/solomon07062005.html
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Its blatently false, the world would thank us for pulling out.
Actually I lied, it isnt false, its just that the powers that be arent being honest.

When they say our reputation will be shot, they dont actually mean our good reputation as a nation of principles or any such nonsense, fairly obviously the world doesnt like us in Iraq.

What they are actually referring to is our reputation as a nation willing to bring hell on earth to anyone who defies us for as long as it takes to crush them.

And frankly, id rather that reputation be lost.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. It would likely thank us for pulling out, but ...
it could hardly forget that we invaded in the first place.
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powwowdancer Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. no good options is an understatement!
Lookit, Bushco ain't gonna pull out no matter what. He'll institute a draft first. He's hung his hat and all of his wobbly, pseudo-credibility on this issue, and the rest of 'em have hung their hats on his. He's like a lobotomized bantam rooster that is genetically hard-wired never to back down, no matter what. These mean-spirited little beasts will keep fighting even after they're decapitated, and so will Bushco. We've been reduced to a nation of fat, lethargic sheep governed by dumb brutes who keep their buddies happy with regular infusions of fresh meat from the flock. Somewhere H. L. Mencken and Ambrose Bierce are popping open a bottle of Dom. If we bail, (and we won't), Bushco admits it's biggest mistake (and there are many). In admitting said mistake, they by default set themselves up for war-crimes trials, impeachment; the whole magilla. The only thing thats keeping the buzzards from landing and picking their bones clean is the nebulous, myopic yet disturbingly ubiquitous Global War On Terror, and Bushco knows it. Buscho's burned enough bridges and screwed enough people on the way up that there is a sizable contingent of very low people in high places who just can't WAIT for him to come back down! Here's what this observer sees in his cracked crystal ball... Bushco "keeps the faith" and holds on to the bitter (and I mean BITTER) end of his splendid little junta. A Democrat will sweep into the white house merely by NOT being a rethug. BUT (and this is the kicker), because of the breathtaking scope and magnitude of Bushco's cock-up, the collective feces shall strike the oscillating ventilator on said hapless Dem's watch. There's NO way to win, or even not to lose BADLY. Bushco knows this. You can bet that Bushco PRAYS night after night to the evil goat-headed god before whom they prostrate themselves in genuine genuflection, and the subject of this pathetic supplication goes a little something like this, "Oh, PLEASE, let the house of cards not fall 'til after we're gone... then we can blame it all on the liberals! We'll keep the blood sacrifices rolling in, I swear!" The whole "Clinton's fault" mantra will be transmogrified, given new life and deployed with depraved abandon by the Neo-nazi's that are only marginally disguised as Republicans in our society. You heard it here first. This could go WAY wrong in so many ways.

:dem:
powwowdancer out
Bush Is Yella
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yikes - an oil rich haven for terrorists!
No fair - PNAC had first dibs on that oil rich haven.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. What? It took a bunch of 'experts' to figure this out?
It has been painfully obvious since about ... March, 2003. Before that, there was a good option: don't invade.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. Okay, so here's yet another thing that was predicted pre-war
Only I hate to use the word 'predicted' because it implies some doubt as to whether or not it will come true. We KNEW it would be like this. It was one of our reasons for being against the war: no good way out, no exit strategy with all the different political factions.

Are there any left? Any predictions that the REAL experts warned us about that haven't come true? Not that I can think of.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. I agree except for one minor detail
even if everything had worked out just fine, the war was illegal. We cannot swagger around the planet using our impressive military might to topple regimes we don't like. It is illegal. it violates treaties that we are legally, constitutionally, bound to uphold. It is a war crime.
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UCLA Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. It took "experts" to decide this???
:shrug:
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. Isn't it weird how George Bush Sr. turned out to be smart wrt Iraq???
Had the Jr. only followed the words of the Sr. the entire would would be better off.

Had we pursued a more progressive policy than either man (or Clinton), I bet we coulda had Saddam out of power with out 100,000 Iraqis and 1,800 US service men and women sleeping in the ground.

david
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Shhhhhh!!! Don't say "quagmire"!!!
:patriot:
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FairGame Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. Is that Preble related to Commodor Preble?
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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'm amazed by this administration's inability to see their errors.
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Garfield Goose Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Impeachment is a good option. eom/
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. It won't get us completely out of the mess we are in
But it would be a positive start. Welcome to DU GG.

Don

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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
34.  we're going to spend $4 billion to $8 billion a month for some time to
come"


That is why we are in Iraq and that's why Bush wants to stay the course.

Billions in tax dollars from our pockets to Halliburton and Bush's other daddy warbucks friends.
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wallwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. Nice work, Shrubco!
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. That's the whole point!
The Idiot and his many friends live off of this lethal mess. That's their job. That's, and always was, their plan. It just keeps unfolding and reproducing itself and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It's easy to maintain and very profitable.
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