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(AP) Military releases info on missing SEALs, copter

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kurtyboy Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:50 PM
Original message
(AP) Military releases info on missing SEALs, copter
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/...

<snip>
KABUL, Afghanistan - The last radio contact was an urgent appeal for help. Night was falling, a rainstorm threatening, and four Navy SEAL commandos were surrounded by about a dozen militants in rugged, wooded mountains. They needed reinforcements.

That hurried call set in motion a chain of events that would lead to the U.S. military's deadliest blow in Afghanistan and the greatest loss of life ever for the elite force of SEALs.

<snip>
The SEAL team - specially trained "not only in the art of combat, but also in medicine and communications" - were attacked by a "pretty large force of enemy terrorists" and radioed for reinforcements, Yonts said at a press conference.

After the radio call for help, eight Navy SEALs and an eight-member crew from the Army's 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, known as the Night Stalkers, flew toward the mountains in a special forces MH-47 Chinook helicopter.


The resistance sounds pretty darned organized--and we lost some of our best people. RIP gentlemen.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. They met the same fate as many a Soviet troop in the 80's.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. yes the same fate -- RIP
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. lotta spetznaz troopers went down with helos
that's where special forces are the weakest, in a transport vehicle they become just normal everyday targets. The Mujahadeen figured that one out.
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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. They have less Stingers missiles this time though...
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. The Afghan mujahadeen didn't have any Stingers missiles...
...during the beginning of the Soviet occupation. Reagan ordered the CIA to began supplying them Stingers later in the conflict. The same thing may be happening again with different missiles from another country? Could be Russian or Chinese missiles this time around?

Don

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StrafingMoose Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. They had Stingers from 1985...

...and the USSR left in 1989, so they had 4 rough years in their choppers. And those are words straight from Milt Bearden (CIA chief station in Pakistan).

But yea, I always wonder how the resistance in Iraq and Aghanistan can cause casualties to US Army. Are they really just fueling on the remainings of the past or someone else would stand a gain to piss off the Americans' endeavour a little bit?

But they don't down choppers often though...

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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And who was it that trained them?
Hmm... can't quite put my finger on it...

:evilfrown:
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quisp Donating Member (926 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. 4 SEALS vs. a dozen Muj.
I'd put my money on the SEALs.

They're not telling the whole story.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Three to one, dark, rugged, unfamiliar terrain...?
SEALS are still human, no matter what you see on t.v.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. but... but... that's not what happened in Tears of the Sun!
Ultra-manly Navy SEAL Bruce Willis took on thousands of rabid brown African murderers with little more than a toothpick and a fierce sense of justice! I saw it with my own eyes!
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Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No kidding. As a veteran of three Rambo movies, I can proudly...
say that U.S. special forces are invincible fighting machines.

:eyes:
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Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I'd put money on the dozen mujhadeen.
Special forces are ridiculously overrated. They're more of a recruitment tool.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Depends who got the jump
on who.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Got that right.
Depends on the ground, which looked close to vertical around there. Three to one would be close, which it sounds like it was.

A recon bunch would be light on the personal weaponry side. Their ability to call in some AC-130's, strike aircraft or now days even armed Predators would more than even the score. Due to the Iraq debacle, there may still be a shortage of those things in the Stans. God, I hope not, and that it had nothing to do with this. I know at one time, robbing stuff for OIF II definitely fucked things up for our guys going after al Queda.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=26824&...


And, we don't need to know much here, and that's what they should tell us, for now.

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. You can put your money on anyone you wish, but the home team....
...usually wins. They've also been at war for decades and have a lot more experience then any of our units.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Seems Quisp needs a refresher course
in History 101, 'specially the chapter on how the Brits exited Afghanistan oh so long ago...
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. What were 4 SEALS doing out there?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Trying to smoke Osama out of his cave n/t
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ecoalex Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Seals get the tough recon jobs, their training
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Marines get the tough recon jobs.
SEALS get the PR.

:) :) :) :) :) :)


http://www.specialoperations.com/USMC/Recon/Default.htm...



(SEALS and Recon Marines both also do light unit raids and snatches. In Eyerack, they do beaucoup raids/snatches.)

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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. What Seals are Trained to do.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 09:10 PM by happyslug
Observe and report. A four man team is large enough for them to take turns sleeping but small enough not to be observed by the enemy. Each was probably cross trained with what the other members can do but you can guess one carried medic equipment, Two carried the radio, one carried a laser tracker (to indicate to smart bombs what to hit), all carried the M4 Carbine (The M16 with a 16 inch barrel instead of the 20 inch barrel of the M16). While the M4 Carbines are light, the other equipment including night vision goggles are not. Please note while I used the term "Radio", the team probably had a Satellite Phone system to directly connect to their command structure either by voice communications or data Communications (i.e. type in the information than send a short burst of radio waves to the Satellite with the information gathered).

Observe and Report is what Special Forces do. Contrary to the movies they are not intended to fight. Now they are well trained in fighting techniques but only to disengage from the enemy if the enemy finds them. They orders are generally NOT to engage the enemy, if possible hide undetected from them. Most of the "Real" stories of Special Forces (including Seals and the British SAS) relate to how they were able to get near or into an enemy position and report enemy movements. For example during the Falkland wars British SAS soldiers supposedly were able to sneak into Stanley Harbor and report directly to the British Carriers how effective was the British Air Attacks and where the Argentina's air defenses were.

I have NOT been following this two closely, for from the news reports the Seals teams were dropped in by Helicopter, and then when detected called in another helicopter to be pulled out, that Second helicopter was the one shot down. This is NOT my understanding of standard special forces techniques to insert a Special Forces team deep into enemy territory. Helicopters are to loud, when people hear them over head they go out and look around, thus a terrible way to insert a Special Force team like Seals who you want to be undetected as much as possible.

The standard practice to insert a Special Forces Team into enemy territory since Vietnam has been to insert such teams using High Attitude, Low Opening (HALO) techniques. HALO is when a plane flies at a high Attitude over the area one is to parachute into. Flying high prevents the locals from hearing your plane as it flies high overhead. After the Parachutist jumps from the plan he only opens his parachute as he nears Ground level. This technique minimizes the possibility of detection. Now extraction of the Team tends to be by Helicopter for then you do NOT care if the enemy knows you had been around.

HALO has worked since Vietnam and I can NOT see why it was NOT done in this case. I suspect it was, but somehow the Seal team parachuted right into some locals who opened fire (or someone reported the team as it hit the ground, or someone just stubble across them, children tend to be the one who do these things and then report it to their parents).

Apparently the team was able to extract itself and call in to be pulled out, but then the Helicopter that was to pull them out was shot down. Once the Helicopter went down the team was doomed. The locals were hot on their trail and there was no way the Seal team was carrying enough ammunition to survive a long term fire fight.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Hi Dread-neck!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I'm Afraid I Do Not Support Censorship Of The Press.
Makes me wonder that you do.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hill battles from Khe Sahn .. redux.
I have posted a lot about Vietnam v.Iraq lately. Google my posts (start with "demotex vietnam iraq" ). Night folks. Late for me.





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