Cuba Raises Salaries of Teachers, Doctors

Cuba Raises Salaries of Teachers, Doctors
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerartic...
HAVANA (AP) - Cuba increased the salaries of its teachers, doctors and nurses, highlighting the importance the nation's communist government puts on its health and education sectors.

Workers in these fields will receive an average of 40 to 50 additional Cuban pesos a month, or the equivalent of about US$2 (euro1.7). The increase was to take affect July 1.

"It's very modest, and can be improved upon," President Fidel Castro said in a live televised address to announce the news Thursday.

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Salary figures can be misleading, however, as most citizens pay no rent, education and health care are free, and the government offers heavily subsidized basic services such as utilities and transportation.

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Government ministers said they hoped the latest increase would help energize workers by recognizing their hard work.
Education and health care have been priorities of the government ever since the Cuban revolution thrust Castro into power more than four decades ago.

Cuba becoming more humane and civilized toward its workers while the US does the opposite... Yipes.

(except for America's doctors, but our medical system was biased in the first place...)

seeking freedom and democracy.

to continue current direction unchanged in 10 to 20 years.

in many ways Cuba is much more civilized and they have their citizen's basic needs addressed more so than here.

Must be shitty for them having Guantanamo Bay in their back yard and not being able to do anything about it.

The only religious group that is not happy is the Catholic Church for losing all of its privileges it once enjoyed at the expense of other faiths.

No one is persecuted in Cuba for their religious beliefs, while in my own state of Indiana, Wiccan parents are not allowed by a divorce court judge from teaching their religion to their son.

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Excuse me - I'm not impressed.

The Miami gusanos would love nothing more than to return to Cuba and replace the free health care with a US-style HMO. Do you call that progress?

They will also bring all of their Republican ideology with them and proceed to rape and pillage their former compatriots, not to mention filling the Cuban airwaves with the putrid theology of fundamentalist Christianity!

You're also not accustomed to living in a country which has been under a U.S. embargo well over 40 years, which would put a crimp in your level of materialism.

You're not accustomed to living in a country which has been the recipient of recurring waves of violence from the U.S. for over 40 years.

If you made it to Cuba, you wouldn't ever be able to receive your social security checks. The U.S. government will not allow you to receive them if you live there. This also applies to Cuban citizens who worked for the base at Guantanamo for many years, and paid into the system.

Speaking of someone who DID go to Cuba after knowing the glories of many material "blessings," a Cuban "exile" who has lived in Miami for decades who decided to move back to Cuba to start his own political party, "Cambio Cubana," a man named Eloy Gutierrez Menoyo has been threatened heavily by the _Bush administration since he left. He is being threatened with prison and an ungodly fine. So even though he's the head of a party which is working to change the Cuban government in a direction right-wing American Cubans might want, the right-wing American President is demanding he leave Cuba.

Please explain that one in detail.

(If you made it to Cuba, you wouldn't ever be able to receive your social security checks.)
First, i won't be receiving Social Security.
Second, i would never consider going to a country ruled by Someone the likes of Castro.

Your comments are wasted on, my materialist ass. You've got a non-sell here.

Judi Lynn's comments are wasted on you.

You owe it to yourself to become familiar with the facts of US/Cuban history. Without knowledge of what has happened, you're speaking from ignorance.

(The reference to social security concerns the fact that some Americans have considered moving to Cuba after retirement, and have been informed they can kiss off their social security if they do. This has been done to discourage American migration to Cuba. By the way, there's a famous ex-CIA agent who lives in Cuba now, running his own travel agency.)

As for persuading you to reexamine your thoughts about Cuba, it's really not of any real interest to me. You need to have a clue when you post information that what you're talking about has a foundation in reality.

Violence against Cuba from 1990 to 2001:

SUMMARY OF THE MAIN TERRORIST ACTIONS AGAINST CUBA (1990-2000)

From 1959 on, counter-revolutionary groups created and directed by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) have carried out countless terrorist activities costing Cuba valuable lives and vast amounts of resources.

Encouraged by the fall of the socialist camp at the beginning of the 90's, these groups have intensified their violent actions against the Cuban people and its leaders from U.S. territory and from other bases of operations in Central America.

Listed below are some of the most infamous of these actions callously executed against the Cuban people:

July 17, 1990: Following the intensive lobbying by Florida Republican Congresspersons, Ileana Ross and Connie Mack, U.S. President George H. Bush releases well-known terrorist Orlando Bosch from jail. Bosch is the man chiefly responsible for the October 1976 blasting of a Cuban civil airplane in mid-flight, thereby killing all 73 people on board.

October 14, 1990: Two armed terrorists sneak into Santa Cruz Del Norte as part of an action concocted in Miami. They are following orders to carry out violent actions. Their weapons and false documents supplied in Miami are confiscated by Cuban authorities. They also carry literature urging people to join what they call "The Cuban Liberation Army" headed by Higinio Diaz Anne, who had supplied them with money and propaganda material prior to their departure from Miami.

May 15, 1991: Jose Basulto, an ex-Bay of Pigs mercenary, well-known terrorist and CIA agent, establishes the so-called Brothers to the Rescue. He asks President George H. Bush for three U.S. Air Force type 0-2 planes, the military version of the Cessna which had been used in the war against the Salvadoran people.

Congresswoman Ileana Ross heavily lobbies until the three planes are obtained. A photo of the planes received by this counter-revolutionary group appears in the press for the first time in a July 19,1991 article by the publisher of the Miami Herald, who also actually flies with Brothers to the Rescue. The letters USAF (United States Air Force) are clearly visible on the planes.

September 17, l991: Two counter-revolutionaries from Miami infiltrate Cuba. Their mission is to sabotage tourist shops in order to spread terror amongst foreign visitors. Their weapons and a radio transmitter are confiscated.

(1)

December 29, 1991: Three terrorists from the so-called Commandos L Group in Miami enter Cuba illegally. Their weapons and other war materiel are confiscated.

These three had received insurgency training with 50 or 60 other men in a training camp on 168th Street in Miami.

May 8, 1992: Cuba files a complaint with the United Nations concerning terrorist activities expressly organized to harm its territory. At Cuba's request, a June 23, 1989 decision of the U.S. Department of Justice is circulated as an official Security Council document.

The decision states that Orlando Bosch is banned from entering U.S. territory, citing substantial proof of his past and present terrorist activities, including the 1976 blasting of a Cuban civil aviation plane in mid-flight. Today, this individual freely walks the streets of Miami after George H. Bush grants him a presidential pardon.

July 4, 1992: A group of terrorists sets out from the United States in order to attack economic targets along the Havana coastline. Once they are detected by Cuban patrol boats, they move to waters off Varadero, where the U.S. Coast Guard rescues them after their boat suffers a mechanical failure. The FBI releases them after it confiscates their supply of weapons, and maps and videos they had made during their journey.

July, 1992: An operation to infiltrate a U.S.-based terrorist into Cuba, served with the mission of sabotaging an economic target in Villa Clara province, fails. The terrorist is carrying weapons and explosives needed for the job and is to be assisted by Brothers to the Rescue who would keep him informed as to the position of the U.S. Coast Guard.

September 9, 1992: The FBI arrests a Cuban-born terrorist for illegal possession of firearms and violation of the Law of Neutrality. He is released without charges.

October 7, 1992: An armed attack against the Melia Varadero Hotel is perpetrated from a vessel manned by four Miami terrorists who are later arrested, questioned by the FBI, then released.

October 19, 1992: Three Miami-based counter-revolutionaries enter Cuba illegally, carrying weapons and military equipment that are confiscated. At the same time, three other terrorists are arrested in the Bahamas carrying weapons and explosives, apparently destined for Cuba. These weapons are also seized. This particular group had left Miami on October 17.

January, 1993: Five terrorists on board a vessel armed with heavy machine guns and other weapons are arrested by the U.S. Coast Guard as they head toward the Cuban coastline. They are quickly released.

January 7, 1993: During a press conference in Miami, Tony Bryant, leader of the terrorist group "Commandos L" openly announces plans to carry out more attacks against targets in Cuba. He makes a point of naming hotels as a prime target. He is quoted as saying, "From now on we are at war with Cuba," and warns foreign tourists to stay away from Cuba.

April 2, 1993: Seven miles north of Matanzas, the tanker ship Mikonos sailing under a Cypriot flag, is fired upon from a vessel manned by Cuban-born U.S.-based terrorists.

May 18, 1993: Another violation of Cuban airspace is incurred by a plane registered to Brothers to the Rescue bearing the number N8447.

May 21, 1993: Nine terrorists are arrested by the U.S. Customs Service who board a vessel as they prepare to sail for Cuba in order to launch attacks on that country. Their weapons and explosives are seized. On August 21, Judge Lawrence King dismisses charges against them.

May, 1993: Brothers to the Rescue plan to blow up a high-tension pylon near San Nicolas de Bari in Havana province.

October, 1993: Brothers to the Rescue publicly encourages attempts on the life of President Fidel Castro and continues to incite violence against Cuba. The Brothers confirm their readiness to accept the risk that could come with this commitment. Andres Nazario Sargen, head of terrorist group ALPHA 66, publicly announces in the U.S. that his organization had recently carried out five illegal operations against Cuba.

October 18, 1993: A terrorist living in the U.S. is arrested upon his arrival in Cuba.

His orders were to carry out acts of violence on Cuban soil.

November 7, 1993: During a press conference in Miami, Humberto Perez, spokesperson for ALPHA 66, threatens that his war against Cuba would soon be extended to any tourist visiting the island. "We consider anyone staying in a Cuban hotel to be an enemy," he states.

1993: A Cuban citizen visiting in the United States is recruited by a terrorist organization to carry out sabotage in Cuba against the tourism and agricultural sectors. He is supplied with some of the materials required for such actions and is offered the sum of $20,000 in U.S. funds.

March 11, 1994: A terrorist group from Miami fires on the Guitart Cayo Coco Hotel.

April 17, 1994: Planes owned by Brothers to the Rescue fly at extremely low altitudes over Havana and drop smoke bombs. In the following months of 1994, the same group carries out at least seven other similar violations of Cuban airspace.

September 4, 1994: Two U.S.-based terrorists infiltrate the area around Caibarien, Villa Clara, charged with a mission of carrying out sabotage in that province. A number of weapons and large amounts of military equipment are seized.

October 6, 1994: Another armed group fires automatic weapons at the Guitart Cayo Coco Hotel from a boat that had embarked from Florida.

October 15, 1994: A group of armed terrorists coming from the United States land on the causeway to Cayo Santa Maria near Caibarien, Villa Clara, and murder a Cuban, Arcelio Rodriguez Garcia.

October, 1994: Brothers to the Rescue uses one of its planes to train members of a Florida-based counter-revolutionary organization. They plan to carry out acts of sabotage on the Cienfuegos oil refinery. In November of the same year, they also plan to make an attempt on the life of President Fidel Castro and other leaders of the Revolution and to continue arms and explosives smuggling into Cuba.

November, 1994: Terrorist Luis Posada Carriles and five of his accomplices smuggle weapons into Cartagena de Indias, Colombia, during the Fourth Ibero-American Summit of Heads of State and Government in order to make an attempt on the life of President Fidel Castro. However, the security belt keeps him at a distance, thus thwarting the assassination plot. Posada Carriles later tells the New York Times, "I was standing behind some journalists and I saw Castro's friend, Garcia Marquez, but I could only see Castro from a long way away."

November 11, 1994: Four terrorists are arrested in Varadero, Matanzas. After sneaking into Cuba, they are relieved of weapons and munitions.

March 2, 1995: Two terrorists from the United States sneak onto the coast of Cuba near Puerto Padre, Las Tunas. They are carrying 51 pounds of C-4 explosives and other munitions.

April 4, 1995: A C-337 light plane violates Cuban airspace north of Havana between Santa Fe and Guanabo beach.

May 20, 1995: The Guitart Cayo Coco Hotel is once again attacked by terrorists manning a fast launch that had come from the United States.

July 12, l995: Three terrorists are arrested in the United States as they are preparing to sneak into Cuba with a plan of executing an act of provocation just off the Cuban coast. Despite confiscation of their weapons and explosives, U.S. authorities release them.

July 13, 1995: A plot organized by Brothers to the Rescue employs eleven vessels, six light planes, and two helicopters. They leave the U.S. and illegally enter Cuban territorial waters and airspace. One of the light planes blatantly flies over the heart of Havana and showers the city with propaganda leaflets.

December 16, 1995: Two terrorists are arrested in the U.S. as they ready themselves to sneak into Cuba through Pinar del Rio in order to carry out subversive actions. U.S. authorities confiscate their weapons and explosives and release them.

January 9, 1996: Two light planes depart from Opa-locka Airport in Florida and violate Cuban airspace.

January 12, 1996: A Cuban immigrant from the U.S. is arrested while trying to transport explosives from the city of Havana to Pinar del Rio.

January 13, 1996: Several Brothers to the Rescue planes violate Cuban airspace over the city of Havana. Later, terrorist Basulto scoffs, "They say I was flying over Cuban airspace, something everybody knows and which I have never denied."

January 23, 1996: U.S. authorities intercept a vessel in Marathon Key heading for Cuba with five armed terrorists on board. The FBI releases the five that very same day.

February 11, 1996: After firing upon the Cuban coastline, a vessel coming from the U.S. carrying three terrorists, is captured by the Cuban Coastguard Patrol.

February 24, 1996: Brothers to the Rescue launch a new foray. Three light planes violate Cuban airspace directly over the heart of Havana and two of them are shot down. In the 20 months prior to this incident, there had been at least 25 other violations of Cuban airspace.

June 26, 1996: During a session of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), the Chairman of the Investigating Committee acknowledges that at least one of the Brothers to the Rescue planes in Opa-locka Airport, Florida, still has the insignia of the U.S. Air Force on it. He testifies, "The F is a little pale; it looks as if it is beginning to fade, but you can still see it."

August 21, 1996: A U.S. citizen is arrested in Cuba. He had clandestinely brought military equipment into the country and was planning to carry out terrorist actions on Cuban soil.

September 16, 1996: A person is arrested when he is caught sneaking into Cuba through Punta Alegre, Ciego de Avila, on a boat carrying weapons and a great deal of military equipment.

October 21, 1996: An SS-RR light plane, registration number N3093, owned by the U.S. State Department, sprays a substance containing the pesticide Thrip Palmi Karny as it flies over the Giron international corridor about 25 to 30 kilometres south of Varadero.

November 16, 1996: Miami television carries a live interview with Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch. They reaffirm their intentions of continuing with their terrorist activities against Cuba.

April 12, 1997: An explosive device is detonated in the Melia Cohiba Hotel in the city of Havana.

April 30, 1997: Another explosive device is discovered in the Melia Cohiba Hotel.

July 12, 1997: Bombs explode in the Capri and Nacional Hotels.

August 11, 1997: The Miami press publish a statement from the Cuban American National Foundation (CANF) which pledges unconditional support to the terrorist bomb attacks against civilian and tourist targets in Cuba. The chairman of this organization claims, "We do not think of these as terrorist actions," and went on to say, ".any action against Cuba is legitimate."

August 22, 1997: A bomb explodes in the Sol Palmeras Hotel in Varadero.

September 4, 1997: Several bombs explode in the Triton, Chateau Miramar and Copacabana Hotels. The explosion in the latter kills Fabio Di Celmo, a young Italian tourist. On the same day, another bomb explodes at La Bodeguita del Medio restaurant. (CNN story 1 / CNN story 2

September 10, 1997: The Cuban Government announces the arrest of Salvadoran national, Raul Cruz Leon, the person responsible for placing six of the bombs that exploded in various hotels in the Cuban capital, including the one that killed Italian tourist, Fabio Di Celmo. Cruz Leon admits that he had been paid $4,500 in U.S. funds for each bomb.

October 19, 1997: An explosive device is found in a tourist van.

October 27, 1997: The U.S. Coast Guard intercepts a vessel west of Puerto Rico. They confiscate two high velocity .50 calibre rifles with their tripods, night vision gear, military uniforms and communications equipment. These sophisticated weapons, strictly military in nature, are designed for long range attacks on vehicles and aircraft.

One person on the vessel admits that his mission was to assassinate President Fidel Castro at the time that he would arrive on Margarita Island, Venezuela, on November 7, 1997, to attend the Ibero-American Summit.

U.S. authorities discover that the vessel had been registered by a Florida company whose chief executive officer, manager and secretary/treasurer is Jose Antonio Llama, a director of CANF and a Bay of Pigs mercenary. One of the rifles is registered in the name of Jose Francisco Hernandez, CANF co-chairman. Futhermore, it is discovered that the other rifle had been purchased by a member of Brigade 2506 in 1994.

The four crew members on the vessel are identified as: a well-known CIA agent, the captain of a CIA boat used by Florida infiltration teams sneaking into Cuba, the chairman of a New Jersey counter-revolutionary group, and a member of Alpha 66.

Despite their confessions and indisputable evidence of the illegal possession of arms, false testimony and arms smuggling, these terrorists are acquitted by a U.S. Federal Court of Law in December, 1999, after a flawed trial.

October 30, 1997: An explosive device is discovered hidden in a kiosk just outside of Terminal 2 at the Jose Marti International Airport in the city of Havana. Two men, originally from El Salvador and three others, originally from Guatemala, would later be arrested for crimes against tourist facilities. All of them are shown to have links with terrorist Luis Posada Carriles.

November 16, 1997: Following a two-month investigation, a Florida newspaper reports that the series of bomb explosions in Havana were bankrolled and directed by Miami anti-Cuban groups. In particular, they note that Luis Posada Carriles, a fugitive from justice for having blown up a Cuban plane in 1976, was at the heart of the operation.

May, 1998: Two terrorists sneak into Santa Lucia, Pinar del Rio. They had embarked from the U.S. with an enormous cache of weapons and war materiel.

June 16, 1998: After several meetings in which the Cuban Government provides the FBI and other U.S. government agencies with information about terrorist activities concocted in the U.S. against Cuba, an official U.S. delegation travels to Havana, including two very highly-placed FBI officials. They are presented with precise details, films, recordings and other irrefutable material evidence on the activities of 40 terrorists who operate out of the U.S. in missions of espionage against Cuba.

July 12, 1998: An article in the New York Times reports a statement made by Cuban American, Antonio Jorge Alvarez, in which he complains that the FBI neglected to investigate the validity of information he had previously imparted to them concerning a proposed assassination attempt on the life of Fidel Castro to take place during the Ibero-American Summit in Venezuela.

According to the New York Times, Alvarez had provided the FBI with information that Posada Carriles, together with accomplices who were working in Alvarez' factory in Guatemala, were preparing this assassination mission as well as the bomb explosions in Havana. Alvarez says, "I risked my business and my life and they (FBI) did nothing."

July 12 and 13, 1998: In an interview with the New York Times, Luis Posada Carriles admits to having organized the bomb campaign against Cuban tourist centres. He also acknowledges that the leaders of CANF had bankrolled his operations and that its chairman, Jorge Mas Canosa, was personally in charge of overseeing the flow of funds and logistic support to those operations. He says, "Jorge Mas Canosa controlled everything. Whenever I needed money he would say that he would give me $5,000 -- $10,000 - or even $l5,000 (US funds) and he did!"

Posada also admits to having paid Raul Cruz Leon to place the bombs in Havana hotels. Referring to the young Italian tourist killed by one of these bombs, he blithely tells the New York Times,".He was sitting in the wrong place at the wrong time."

In compiling these reports, the New York Times used CIA and FBI files, testimony from more than 100 people and more than 13 hours of recorded interviews with Posada Carriles as well as documents personally signed by him.

July 23, 1998: The Miami press publishes an article entitled: IN THE UNITED STATES, ANTI-CASTRO PLOTS RARELY LEAD TO JAIL. The article mentions several cases, such as the 1990 acquittal of 6 terrorists who took guns and weapons to Nicaragua for an attempt on the life of the Cuban President. It also mentions the Rodolfo Frometa and Fausto Marimoms acquittals concerning charges of planning to use Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and other weapons in terrorist attacks.

The article also quotes statements attributed to a well-known terrorist named Tony Bryant, who said that in 1989, the FBI intercepted him in a boat loaded with weapons and explosives and let him go. He added to his statement that he had been intercepted in two of his missions against Cuba, but the FBI never did anything to him.

August 2, 1998: In an interview for the program "Opposing Points of View" for CBS News, Posada Carriles says that he intends to launch more attacks on Cuban facilities, either inside or outside the island.

August, 1998: Even before President Fidel Castro's announcement that the Cuban President would be attending the Summit of Heads of State and Government of CARIFORUM in the Dominican Republic, several Cuban-born terrorists plot an attempt on his life to be carried out some time between August 20 and 25. To that end, Posada Carriles arranges a meeting in the Guatemala City Holiday Inn one month before the summit to plan on how to get weapons and explosives into Santo Domingo.

September 12, 1998: In desperation, hoping to anticipate the timetables of these relentless, illegal attacks on the Cuban people by Cuban-American right-wing extremist groups, Cubans enter the U.S. on a fact-finding mission in order to monitor the movements of these terrorist groups.

The Cuban government shares the incriminating evidence with the FBI. Three months later, abetted by these influential, well-financed Cuban-American extremist groups, the FBI arrests the Cubans.

The case has attracted the attention and participation of human rights lawyers in the U.S. and other countries and is now languishing in the U.S. court system.

November 17, 2000: A group of terrorists led by Posada Carriles is arrested in Panama. These terrorists have entered Panama with false documents in order to conduct yet another attempt on the life of Fidel Castro during the 10th Ibero-American Summit of Heads of State and Government. Their weapons, explosives, a sketch of Fidel Castro's proposed route as well as an agenda of public meetings are seized. The Cuban American National Foundation is financing the team of lawyers defending the terrorists.

April 26, 200l: Three terrorists from the Commandos Groups, F-45 and Alpha 66, attempt to land on the north coast of Villa Clara province. They fire shots at the Cuban Coastguard which has spotted them. Four AKM rifles, one M-3 rifle with a silencer, three hand guns, a great deal of material such as night vision equipment and communications equipment are confiscated by Cuban authorities. This equipment was meant to carry out sabotage and terrorist action on Cuban soil.

In addition to the plots listed above, Cuban authorities have learned of 16 other plots to assassinate the President of Cuba, 8 plots to assassinate other leaders of the Revolution and 140 other terrorist plots hatched between 1990 and 2001. All of these plots were discouraged and prevented by the diligent work of the Cuban Security and Intelligence Services.
(snip/...)

http://www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/Documents/terror-su...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BIO-CHEMICAL WAR ON CUBA
Information from CIABASE files on bio/chem war on Cuba
_________________________________________________________________

Ralph McGehee, CIABASE
Source: alt.politics.org.cia

BIOLOGICAL WAR

chemical war. covert action information bulletin (now covert
action quarterly) 17:2-31; 18:58,59; 21:29,30; 22:16, 35;
25::3,7,26. "germ warfare disinformation," 16:60,58; "the history
of U.S. bio-chemical killers," 17:5-7; "U.S. biological warfare:
the 1981 Cuba dengue epidemic" 17:28-31. in afghanistan 17:13,
17,28; in Cuba 17:28-31; in korea 17:6-7; in laos 17:12

Cuba. Details CIA efforts to avoid destroying offensive
biologicals ordered by pres. nixon. also cites article in the
1/9/77 issue of the Washington Post " CIA linked to 71 swine
virus in Cuba." BCAS v12, #4 1980 p11-17

Cuba, 69-70 a U.S. officer passed a vial of african swine
fever virus to a terrorist group. six weeks later Cuba suffered
the first outbreak of swine fever in the western hemisphere; pig
herds were decimated. richelson, j.t. (1985). the U.S.
intelligence community 231

Cuba, 71 anti-Castro group releases anti-swine virus in
Cuba and Cuban gvt forced to kill 500,000 pigs. CIA agents
delivered sealed container that contained virus to Cuban group in
ft. gurlick, panama canal zone. CIA paramilitary center helped
train members in pm ops. minnick, w. (1992). spies and
provacateurs 262

Cuba, 72-82 Cuban officials charge that the CIA infected
Cuban pigs with african swine fever in the early 70s and again in
the early 80s. also the us introduced mosquitos that carried
bleeding dengue into Cuba in 81. hundreds of thousands became ill
and 150 died. the nation 8/27/83 135

Cuba, 78-87 CIA contacted dr. eduardo sagaro gonzalez
while he taking a medical course in mexico in 78. sagaro traveled
to mozambique in 79 where he recruited and close to douglas james
smith, the cos in maputo. CIA wanted info on fidel's health and
info on pesticide reserves to combat the dengue epidemic. CIA
also had asked another agent many questions relating to bio and
chemical war. CIA convinced manufacturer of containers for
fumigating (dengue fever) mosquitoes to make them without a head
of fumigator - rendering them useless. ridenour, r. (1991). back
fire: the CIA's biggest burn 77

Cuba, 79-82 when CIA agent davidson left Cuba he
instructed officers bruce timpton and richard brennan to keep in
touch with agronomist lopez nunez. they asked for samples of
tobacco leaves. ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the CIA's biggest
burn 78

Cuba, 79 orlando argudin lopez, aka oscar aka rolando was
told by his CIA handler in paris in 79 that CIA was introducing
diseases to affect people and animals. ridenour, r. (1991). back
fire: the CIA's biggest burn 74

Cuba, 81 300,000 people had dengue fever. two years
earlier swine fever devastated the island nation. entire tobacco
crop attacked by mildew; sugar cane had fungus. Cuban double
agents received reporting requirements from CIA re those events.
top secret 0-88 9-11

Cuba, 81 dengue fever type 2 broke out in Cuba 2 months
after CIA query re topic to Cuban double agent maria
santiesteban. she worked with dse for 11 years and recruited her
husband, jose alberto puig aka abelardo. ridenour, r. (1991).
back fire: the CIA's biggest burn 71

Cuba, 93 Cuba said an epidemic affecting eyesight - optic
neuritis - may have been deliberately introduced from abroad.
washington times 5/1/93 a2

Cuba, 95-97 Cuba showed a u.n. meeting against biological
weapons, pictures of a U.S. op to plague Cuba with a crop-eating
pest and called for an international investigation. it is the
first time the biological weapons convention is dealing with a
complaint under a 1991 provision that lets a nation that believes
it has come under biological attack seek an investigation. a u.n.
meeting on Cuba's charges ended inconclusively in geneva. in
talks held under a cold war-era treaty which bans biological
weapons but lacks a verification mechanism, havana failed to get
the investigation it wanted and washington was unable to close
the matter. johnpike fas.org 9/2/97

Cuba, 96-97 Cuba said the us government unleashed biowar
against Cuba. granma newspaper provided a map of us state
department aircraft's trajectory over Cuba last october 21st, the
date of the first appearance of the thrips palmi insect plague in
western and central Cuba, and the dates of Cuba's official note
of protest to the us interests section in havana as well as the
response to that protest. on 2/12/97 -- the us interests section
said the sr2 aircraft, turned on its smoke generator to warn a
nearby Cuban commercial airliner of its presence in the region.
the sr2 used by the state department for the fumigation of drug
crops is known to have two dispersion systems: one for aerosols
and liquid particles, and one for solid particles, but is not
known to carry a smoke generator. the Cuban pilot who spotted the
aircraft, and who has experience in fumigation said that the us
aircraft did not launch smoke, but rather a substance. rhc
radiohc.org 5/7/97

Cuba, 96 note 4/28/97 from Cuba to u.n. secretary-general
re the thrips palmi plague. on 10/21/96, at 10.08 hours, crew
members of (Cuban airlines), saw a single-engine airplane
apparently spraying or sprinkling unknown substances - some seven
times. located 25 to 30 kilo metres south of varadero. the flight
was a fumigation aircraft model sar, register n3093m, operated by
the state department. the airplane had taken off from patrick air
force base, bound for grand cayman. the Cubana pilot reported to
flight control the release of unknown substances, in the form of
a white or greyish mist, by the sar airplane. 12/18/96, the first
signs of thrips plague appeared in matanzas province. after a
protest note on 2/12/97, the us interest section in havana,
stated, the pilot had, during his flight, seen a Cuban commercial
airplane flying below, and as he was not certain of having seen,
"following caution and safety procedures," and with the purpose
of securing a positive visual contact, the pilot used the "smoke
generator" of his aircraft, in order to "indicate its location"
adding that "the smoke vanished and no fluid was poured from the
airplane." the sar aircraft, register n3093m, is used by the
state department in the struggle against drug trafficking, to
destroy crops. the aircraft utilizes two sprinkling systems: one
for the use of aerosols and liquid particles and another for
dropping solid particles. the investigations show, the appearance
of thrips palmi in mananas province with the dropping, on
10/21/96, of an unknown substance. protest note 6/29/93

Cuba, switzerland, 96-97 - Cuba charged the U.S. sprayed
it with a hungry insect that is devouring its crops. at a meeting
here of the 138 nations that signed the 1972 convention on
biological weapons, Cuba demanded an investigation into claim
that a U.S. state dept plane spewed an agent known as thrips
palmi over Cuba last october. charges provide a test for the
accord, intended to ban germ warfare. accord now includes no
provisions for verification or enforcement. now negotiators
trying to add powers that were built into the post-cold war
treaties to ban chemical weapons and nuclear test explosions. the
tiny insect, which severely damages practically every crop,
started showing up in potato plantations about two months after
the october flyover. washington post 8/26/97 a12

Cuba, switzerland, 97 Cuban accuses U.S. government
crop-dusting plane for spraying a substance over Cuba in october
96 that led to the appearance in december of a crop pest. the
potato bug was dropped on 10/21/96 by an s2r crop-dusting plane
operated by the state department -- who says the plane overflew
Cuba, but emitted only smoke. washington times 8/26/97 a10

Cuba, 61 CIA used weather modification and swine fever
virus against Cuba. richelson, j.t. (1985). the U.S. intelligence
community 231

Cuba, 79-81 Castro said CIA probably behind hemorrhagic
dengue where in 7 weeks 113 people died and 300,000 infected. he
raised questions about african swine fever, sugar cane rust and
blue mold on tobacco that hit Cuba beginning 79 counterspy 2/82
6-8

Cuba, 81 various evidence including testimony suggests
that CIA thru Cuban exile terrorist org omega 7 spread epidemic
of dengue fever. covert action information bulletin (now covert
action quarterly) fall 84 22 & summer 82 28-31

Cuba, 61-81 Cuban sugar contaminated, infected turkeys
virus, 8000 died. 71 created african swine fever, 500,000 pigs
killed. 81 epidemic dengue fever 300,000 cases reported. blum, w.
(1986). the CIA a forgotten history 211

Cuba, plans against Cuba's sugar crop. ranelagh, j. (1986).
the agency 386

Cuba, 71 U.S. intel source said the CIA gave an
anti-Castro group a container filled with african swine fever
virus which caused the slaughter of 500,000 pigs to prevent a
nationwide epidemic. wp 1/9/77, first principles 2/77 p12

CHEMICAL WAR

94-95 in 94 at maximum biosafety level 4 at the U.S. army
medical research institute of infectious diseases, the fort
detrick "biological weapons" center, a controlled experiment was
run with what is probably the world's most deadly organism: elgon
filoviruses. these fragile tapes of rna in thin, protein-walled
molecular tubes a few microns long share seven common proteins,
and the army experiment showed that the most fulminating,
hemorrhagic subtype, ebola zaire could pass airborne from one
monkey to another. in biological warfare lingo, ebola zaire
filovirus is a true "slate-wiper:" in a modern hospital, it will
kill nine out of 10 infected persons in 24 to 48 hours. there are
no known antibodies or counter-measures and its molecular
structure is indistinguishable from other filoviruses, the least
"fulminating" of which kills one in four persons in 24 to 48
hours. after a few days or weeks of incubation in a mammal host,
a filovirus multiples inordinately, congealing blood platelets
and softening organ tissue into jelly. first, capillaries, then
larger blood vessels fill, swell and burst, leaving the host
bleeding massively internally and also externally through all
orifices. intelligence - a computerized intelligence newsletter
published in france 2/27/95 2 biological war. covert action
information bulletin (now covert action quarterly) 17:2-31;
18:58,59; 21:29,30; 22:16, 35; 25::3,7,26. "germ warfare
disinformation," 16:60,58; "the history of U.S. bio-chemical
killers," 17:5-7; "U.S. biological warfare: the 1981 Cuba dengue
epidemic" 17:28-31. in afghanistan 17:13, 17,28; in Cuba
17:28-31; in korea 17:6-7; in laos 17:12

Cuba, 61-62 op mongoose begun in 11/61 to overthrow
Castro. a wide range of ops from intel and propaganda, to
sabotage of factories and installations, bombing power lines,
spreading chemicals on sugar fields to sicken cane cutters, and
several plots to murder Castro. watson, b., watson, s. & hopple,
g. (1990). united states intelligence: an encyclopedia 364

Cuba, 61-81 Cuban sugar contaminated, infected Cubans
turkeys virus, 8000 died. 71 created african swine fever, 500,000
pigs killed. 81 epidemic dengue fever 300,000 cases reported.
blum, w. (1986). the CIA a forgotten history 211

Cuba, 66-87 in july 87 Cuban gvt revealed the identities
of 26 Cubans and one italian who had served as double agents for
the Cuban gvt while ostensibly working for the CIA (double
agents). Cuban tv ran an 11-part series on the 26. series exposed
CIA attempts to spread dengue fever and crop diseases and efforts
to assassinate Castro. nacla (magazine re latin america) 9/89 6

Cuba, 69-70 CIA used weather modification to ravage
Cuba's sugar crop. it seeded rain clouds in non-agricultural
areas that left cane fields arid. blum, w. (1986). the CIA a
forgotten history 211

Cuba, 69-70 CIA apparently used weather modification to
destabilize Cuba's food crop and export income. planes from china
lake naval weapons center in california overflew Cuba seeding
rain clouds that precipitated torrential rains over
nonagricultural areas and left cane fields dry. CIA used
international research and technology corporation in this op as
reported by one of institutions leaders, lowell ponte in nyt,
6/27/76. dutch scientists jaap van ginneken supported ponte's
claim. ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the CIA's biggest burn 73

Cuba, 69-70 planes from the china lake naval weapons
center in california overflew Cuba, seeding rain clouds with
crystals that precipitated torrential rains over nonagricultural
areas and left the cane fields arid. richelson, j.t. (1985). the
U.S. intelligence community 231

Cuba, 71-83 sudden outbreaks of sogata rice blight in 71,
african swine fever in 71 and 79, sugar cane rust and smut in
78-79, blue tobacco mold in 79, newcastle disease in 82, and
coffee smut in 83 caused serious damage to Cuban economy.
ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the CIA's biggest burn 73

Cuba, 80-84 eduardo victor arrocena perez, head of
CIA-financed group, omega-7, tried for assassinating felix
garcia, a Cuban diplomat in new york on 9/11/80. arrocena was a
CIA agent. during trial he testified CIA had given him chemicals
to produce sickness in Cuba. ridenour, r. (1991). back fire: the
CIA's biggest burn 78-9
(snip/...)

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/biowarfarecrops4,2,00.htm

..that the number of people "fleeing" the US to Cuba could probably be counted on one hand, yet for some odd reason, hundreds of thousands of Cubans emigrated from their homeland after Castro took over and thousands risked their very lives to flee. It's almost as if they know something that some people here refuse to believe. Almost.

Interesting little factoid:

A very conservative estimate of 375,000 people have fled Cuba for the US (and just the US) over the years. (http://www.answers.com/topic/cuba ) Yet the current population of Cuba is 11,350,000. Or in other words, a bare minimum of 3.3% of their population has left {bear in mind the population back when the exodus began would have been smaller}. In retrospect, 3.3% of the the current US population would be ~9.8 million people. (Which by odd coincidence, would come fairly close to doubling Cuba's population. Not that Cuba would need to worry, because the odds of this happening are zero.)

Here's another source putting the estimate at not 375,000 people, but over 1 million (and that's just the legal emigration):
http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/juanclark.cuba/clark97.humrtsco...
(Let me guess--you'll believe them when they say they've worked with AI, but you won't believe them here even though you won't cite any data to support your dismissal of their claims.

Nor will you accept any of these dozens of different sources they cite, {including the UN & The New York Times} regarding Cuba's human rights record:
http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/humrts.html

Source for populations (Yes, it's the CIA Factbook!!! I can't wait to see you dismiss this without providing an alternative source...):
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/211...

Plus food, utilities, and transportation are dirt cheap there.

and helping the children of your country achieve one of the highest records of literacy in the world, or, as a doctor, helping to bring your country out of a feudal state (among the vast majority: the former poor under Batista) into a well-functioning, healthy society.

.....Praise for Cuba's social equality and security has even come from the World Bank itself. In April, World Bank president James Wolfenson admitted that “if you judge the country by education and health they've done a terrific job”.

Different values
But underlying Cuba's success is a value system fundamentally opposed to everything that the World Bank stands for.

It is not because they have discovered the secret to economic efficiency that the Cubans are able to have highly developed social services. Rather their achievements are the result of having a government that places the welfare of all its citizens above the pursuit of private profit, and uses the active participation of its citizens in decision-making to ensure that this people-before-profits values system is reflected in all aspects of social life.
(snip/...)

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2001/457/457p18.htm

It's not the amount of money, in $; it's what it provides, and what it needs to provide.

It's like being told that "prud" is a Slavic word, with no additional information--the only possible response is, So what?

Salary figures can be misleading, however, as most citizens pay no rent, education and health care are free, and the government offers heavily subsidized basic services such as utilities and transportation.

Many of those to receive the new salaries also benefited from an earlier increase to the island's minimum wage, under which the salaries of nearly 1.7 million low-wage workers were doubled May 1.

The positive economic news has come on the heels of new optimism based on oil prospects off Cuba's northern coast and strengthened economic ties with China and Venezuela.

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerartic...

What can you say for our glorious capitalist paradise where workers have seen the owners move their jobs overseas in order to maximize profits, and where health insurance is prohibitively expensive, and higher education is beyond the reach of most workers?

I'll take Cuba over Bush's budding gulag in America any day!

BTW, young Cuban men don't have to worry about their government sending them to the Middle East to spread Christianity and conquer oil fields!

and are so desperate to leave they make rafts out of 1950's Chevys risking DEATH to cross the 90 mile straight to reach Florida.

Cuba is such a glorious place that people cant wait to drown in order to get out!

Meanwhile...foreign tourist enjoy a topical paradise just a few miles away:

workers paradise.

The people that flee Cuba are repeat fleers, that are trying to enter the US for the same perceived economic opportunities that motivate Mexicans to cross the border.

Lift the embargo and stop victimizing the people of Cuba simply because they refuse to kiss American ass!

So the economic problems in Cuba are due mostly to our embargo? No, they're due to inefficiencies in their economic system. Duh.

Even if they have an inefficient economic system, lifting the trade embargo would still improve their economy and increase the quality of life of many Cubans.

"Denial of Food and Medicine:
The Impact Of The U.S. Embargo
On The Health And Nutrition In Cuba"
-An Executive Summary-
American Association for World Health Report
Summary of Findings
March 1997

After a year-long investigation, the American Association for World Health has determined that the U.S. embargo of Cuba has dramatically harmed the health and nutrition of large numbers of ordinary Cuban citizens. As documented by the attached report, it is our expert medical opinion that the U.S. embargo has caused a significant rise in suffering-and even deaths-in Cuba. For several decades the U.S. embargo has imposed significant financial burdens on the Cuban health care system. But since 1992 the number of unmet medical needs patients going without essential drugs or doctors performing medical procedures without adequate equipment-has sharply accelerated. This trend is directly linked to the fact that in 1992 the U.S. trade embargo-one of the most stringent embargoes of its kind, prohibiting the sale of food and sharply restricting the sale of medicines and medical equipment-was further tightened by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.

A humanitarian catastrophe has been averted only because the Cuban government has maintained a high level of budgetary support for a health care system designed to deliver primary and preventive health care to all of its citizens. Cuba still has an infant mortality rate half that of the city of Washington, D.C.. Even so, the U.S. embargo of food and the de facto embargo on medical supplies has wreaked havoc with the island's model primary health care system. The crisis has been compounded by the country's generally weak economic resources and by the loss of trade with the Soviet bloc.

Recently four factors have dangerously exacerbated the human effects of this 37-year-old trade embargo. All four factors stem from little-understood provisions of the U.S. Congress' 1992 Cuban Democracy Act (CDA):
A Ban on Subsidiary Trade: Beginning in 1992, the Cuban Democracy Act imposed a ban on subsidiary trade with Cuba. This ban has severely constrained Cuba's ability to import medicines and medical supplies from third country sources. Moreover, recent corporate buyouts and mergers between major U.S. and European pharmaceutical companies have further reduced the number of companies permitted to do business with Cuba.
Licensing Under the Cuban Democracy Act: The U.S. Treasury and Commerce Departments are allowed in principle to license individual sales of medicines and medical supplies, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons to mitigate the embargo's impact on health care delivery. In practice, according to U.S. corporate executives, the licensing provisions are so arduous as to have had the opposite effect. As implemented, the licensing provisions actively discourage any medical commerce. The number of such licenses granted-or even applied for since 1992-is minuscule. Numerous licenses for medical equipment and medicines have been denied on the grounds that these exports "would be detrimental to U.S. foreign policy interests."
Shipping Since 1992:The embargo has prohibited ships from loading or unloading cargo in U.S. ports for 180 days after delivering cargo to Cuba. This provision has strongly discouraged shippers from delivering medical equipment to Cuba. Consequently shipping costs have risen dramatically and further constricted the flow of food, medicines, medical supplies and even gasoline for ambulances. From 1993 to 1996, Cuban companies spent an additional $8.7 million on shipping medical imports from Asia, Europe and South America rather than from the neighboring United States.
Humanitarian Aid: Charity is an inadequate alternative to free trade in medicines, medical supplies and food. Donations from U.S. non-governmental organizations and international agencies do not begin to compensate for the hardships inflicted by the embargo on the Cuban public health system. In any case, delays in licensing and other restrictions have severely discouraged charitable contributions from the U.S.

Taken together, these four factors have placed severe strains on the Cuban health system. The declining availability of food stuffs, medicines and such basic medical supplies as replacement parts for thirty-year-old X-ray machines is taking a tragic human toll. The embargo has closed so many windows that in some instances Cuban physicians have found it impossible to obtain life-saving medicines from any source, under any circumstances. Patients have died. In general, a relatively sophisticated and comprehensive public health system is being systematically stripped of essential resources. High-technology hospital wards devoted to cardiology and nephrology are particularly under siege. But so too are such basic aspects of the health system as water quality and food security. Specifically, the AAWH's team of nine medical experts identified the following health problems affected by the embargo:

Malnutrition: The outright ban on the sale of American foodstuffs has contributed to serious nutritional deficits, particularly among pregnant women, leading to an increase in low birth-weight babies. In addition, food shortages were linked to a devastating outbreak of neuropathy numbering in the tens of thousands. By one estimate, daily caloric intake dropped 33 percent between 1989 and 1993.
Water Quality: The embargo is severely restricting Cuba's access to water treatment chemicals and spare-parts for the island's water supply system. This has led to serious cutbacks in supplies of safe drinking water, which in turn has become a factor in the rising incidence of morbidity and mortality rates from water-borne diseases.
Medicines & Equipment: Of the 1,297 medications available in Cuba in 1991, physicians now have access to only 889 of these same medicines - and many of these are available only intermittently. Because most major new drugs are developed by U.S. pharmaceuticals, Cuban physicians have access to less than 50 percent of the new medicines available on the world market. Due to the direct or indirect effects of the embargo, the most routine medical supplies are in short supply or entirely absent from some Cuban clinics.
Medical Information: Though information materials have been exempt from the U.S. trade embargo since 1 988, the AAWH study concludes that in practice very little such information goes into Cuba or comes out of the island due to travel restrictions, currency regulations and shipping difficulties. Scientists and citizens of both countries suffer as a result. Paradoxically, the embargo harms some U.S. citizens by denying them access to the latest advances in Cuban medical research, including such products as Meningitis B vaccine, cheaply produced interferon and streptokinase, and an AIDS vaccine currently under-going clinical trials with human volunteers.

Finally, the AAWH wishes to emphasize the stringent nature of the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba. Few other embargoes in recent history - including those targeting Iran, Libya, South Africa, Southern Rhodesia, Chile or Iraq - have included an outright ban on the sale of food. Few other embargoes have so restricted medical commerce as to deny the availability of life-saving medicines to ordinary citizens. Such an embargo appears to violate the most basic international charters and conventions governing human rights, including the United Nations charter, the charter of the Organization of American States, and the articles of the Geneva Convention governing the treatment of civilians during wartime.

American Association for World Health
1825 K Street, NW, Suite 1208
Washington, DC 20006
Tel. 202-466-5883 / FAX 202-466-5896

http://www.cubasolidarity.net/aawh.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We'll have to take it for granted you are unaware of the extra-territorial reach of the Helms-Burton Act, impeding Cuban trade with Mexico, Canada, and European countries.

I think that the ban should be lifted. I see no reason for the ban, and I also disagree with the ban on Cuba to travel. Please don't misunderstand me.

I am no fan of the rich pigs in Miami who used Elian as their political cool. I agreed that Elian should be with his father, his closest relative, wherever that is.

But to suggest that Cuba respects private property rights, respects individual rights, and treats its people fairly is to deny the truth.

40+ years of an embargo and many other laws (Helms-Burton, etc) designed to strangle the Cuban economy to the point where the general population will overthrow their government and you say that it's "due to inefficiencies in their economic system."

Now *that's* MiamiGusano-logic! You sound like you've been listening to too much Radio Mambi.

I'm sure again this October for the 14th year in a row the United Nations General Assembly will overwhelmingly approve a resolution calling for an end to the 40-year-old embargo and its draconian laws that try to make other countries isolate the island as well. Last year it passed 179-4.

Learn From Cuba

It {Cuba} has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

Not bad for a country with "failed economic policies" ;-)

Cuba:

Infant mortality: 6.3 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy: 77.23 years
Literacy: 97%
AIDS prevalence: 0.1% (2003 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.ht...

As compared to the USSA:

Infant mortality: 6.5 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy: 77.71 years
Literacy: 97%
AIDS prevalence: 0.6% (2003 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.ht...

are "refugees" and immigrants from Mexico are criminals.

Lázaro Muñero, the ex-con boyfriend of Elián's mother, Elizabet, "fled" to Miami, lived with relatives, then re-"fled" to Cuba and picked up a boatload of passengers and re-re-"fled" before he sank altogether.

The two other survivors of the fatal boat trip that killed Elian's mother said that Lázaro kicked the failed outboard motor so hard that he broke the transom (the back end of the boat that the motor is clamped to) right off of the boat. Water flooded in and sank the boat in seconds. No one had a life vest, including the 6 year old Elian.

BTW, those other two survivors, the Miami Herald reported after interviewing them, want to return to Cuba to live because their quality of life sucks in Miami compared to Cuba (their minimum wage jobs don't pay enough for them to afford transportation, food, decent housing, & health care in Miami - unlike their lives in Cuba).

there never would have been an "Elián" free-for-all going on here for months and months. We would have missed the side-show as U.S. Congressmen made even more pathetic asses of themselves trying to grandstand for the most retarded right-wingers among us.

I've heard about those two, Mika. I think it makes one wonder why the Herald doesn't do periodic updates on how they're getting along now, don't you? You can be sure if there was anything there to use for propaganda purposes, to show how wild these two are about their new homeland, we would have heard all about it long ago.

I read that they got jobs from some CANF businessmen types, something like a car dealership, for the man, and that they were shocked that their very basic apartment cost them so much they had almost nothing left on which to live, just as you said.

He used to be a chef in Cuba, and has been quoted saying where he used to live he had marble floors, and a lot of space, and was a far nicer home. He sounded unpleasantly surprised. (No streets of gold! He probably realized too late the stories the "exiles" spouted about how well everyone's doing here, on their trips to Cuba, were slight exaggerations.)

I heard they were hoping they could save some money to buy a few gifts to take with them when they got a chance to visit their relatives some day. Since _Bush has all but forbidden Cuban "exiles" any travel beyond once every three years, they can forget about seeing their relatives any time soon, anyway.

To Arianne and Nivaldo, lotsa luck.

as in Dominicans trying to get to Puerto Rico, and Haitians who have migrated to Cuba, and Haitians who die in great numbers trying to get to the United States, over a 700 mile trip in small boats.

Apparently we're supposed to forget that people from South and Central American come up through Mexico to cross the border, and that Mexicans die in huge numbers trying to get to the very country which, through various trade devices, like NAFTA, destroyed their only sources of income in farming corn, sugar, and coffee.

The newest Mexican-American war began in 1994 and is still going on. It's not an official war between the United States of Mexico and the United States of America. Rather, it's a war being between several dozen United States Congressmen and the poorest of poor Mexican laborers. Or more specifically, Congressmen Hunter, Rohrabacher, Tancredo, and Deal vs. hapless Mexican men, women, and children trying to make it over the border without dying.

The official death tally in this unending war is around one a day --- 4,000 dead in ten years. The unofficial tally is probably closer to 25,000. Or as one coroner, working out of Yuma, stated in Hard Line, if the Mexicans who had died in the desert all rose up today, their sheer numbers would beat the population of New York City.

Each year, hundreds from Mexico City, Sinaloa, Oaxaca, Vera Cruz and Chiapas expire in the border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. Years ago, mothers, fathers, and children went easily back and forth through San Diego, Yuma, Ciudad Juárez, Brownsville. But since the declaration of war --- called, with a certain bitter irony, "Operation Gatekeeper" --- Mexicans have been driven to take on the mountains outside of San Diego, and on into the deserts of eastern California and Arizona.
Here they die, not like flies, but like beasts of burden: freezing to death in the mountains at night, in the snow and the cold; sometimes drowning in the deep irrigation canals of Southeaster California. Or, literally, cooked to death in the summer Sonoran desert, temperatures raging above 120°.

What do these soldiers of poverty look like after they have succumbed? According to Hard Line,
Their skin had been burned to a furious, stop-sign red by the sun. The extreme loss of body moisture had peeled back their lips, giving them a sickly grin, and left darkened pits where they eyes should have been. All Dave Phagan could think of was documentary films about the survivors of the Holocaust. These men had the same sunken look, "like skin draped over a skeleton."
(snip/...)
http://www.ralphmag.org/DH/hard-line.html

Sunday School class in Methodist church.
Santa Clara, Cuba, 1992.
photo by Paul Jeffrey

Item #92-56-293

Machateros in Santa Clara Cuba in 1899.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
..........What most interested me, when I traveled to the island this spring, was determining how concerned the Cubans themselves were about their future as Cubans, as a patriotic people invested emotionally and morally in their country and its destiny, even as an after-chill of the expired Cold War continues to numb and restrict their movement toward freedoms taken for granted throughout Western culture (of which Latin American culture is no small part). Pathetically, Cuba is still at war these days, mostly with Jesse Helms and a relentless battalion of its own hate-inspired Miami relatives, but the ideological tide of the conflict has ebbed with history, stranding both sets of scarred antagonists on opposite shores of ego, paranoia, and passionate delusion.
Not surprisingly, whomever I spoke with -- tobacco workers and cab drivers and families at the beach, housewives and artists and hitchhikers -- readily expressed interest in preserving the revolution's trio of hard-earned accomplishments: the educational system that has endowed Cuba with the highest literacy rate in the world, a universal health care system internationally acknowledged for the expertise of its doctors and the ingenuity of its research and pharmacological entities, and social security programs that provide pensions, housing benefits, and food subsidies to most of the population. Indeed, any post-Castro, or post-revolutionary, government would be guilty of negligence, a careless disregard for the (re)established social standard of life, however modest, for the average Cuban, if it allowed the status quo in these areas of society to erode, as happened in the early '90s. Save education and health care and the roofs over our heads, people on the street seemed to be saying, and the rest can go, for all we care.
(snip/...)
http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~jmvadi/Cuba_CLS482/S...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How many people do you imagine would be trying the trip from Latin Amaerica and the Caribbean if the U.S. Government offered THEM instant legal status upon reaching U.S. dry land, with no one to chase them around, throw them in jail and deport them, and bestow food stamps, Section 8 taxpayer-funded housing, health care, financial assistance for education, instant work visa, etc., etc., etc.? This is available for EVERY Cuban upon reaching dry land, bar none. Mexicans stand a good chance of getting shot, if they are spotted by American vigilantes coming across, if they DO make it through the other death traps.

don't do that Judi, you're making me nervous!

:hi:

Always have to rest several days afterwards. Life is hard. :hi:

I'll be fine! Really. I can take it.

_Bush created. These people are trying to flee from a living hell created by our government's determination to remove a duly elected President of Haiti:

Jamaica Repatriates 283 Haitian Migrants

(You note they are called simple "migrants," rather than "refugees," which is more truthful, since their island is awash in overwhelming, devastating violence)

Jamaica repatriates 283 Haitian migrants

By HOWARD CAMPBELL
Associated Press
Posted June 23 2005, 8:23 AM EDT

KINGSTON, Jamaica -- Jamaica on Wednesday repatriated 283 Haitian migrants whose requests for political asylum were denied, an official said.

A government-appointed immigration tribunal rejected their asylum requests, said Donovan Nelson, a spokesman for the National Security ministry. Another 26 Haitians whose asylum bids were denied were deported last week, he said.

The migrants were among more than 700 Haitians who have arrived in Jamaica since the bloody rebellion that ousted President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in February 2004.

About 500 arrived in rickety boats shortly after the rebellion, but half decided they didn't want to stay and were sent home. Another 217 Haitians arrived earlier this year.
(snip/...)

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/caribbean/sfl-62...

http://www.universes-in-universe.de/car/havanna/cabana/...

Lazaro Saavedra presented this piece at the 6th Biennial of Havana--back in 1997. It's location is "La Cabana"--an old fortress commanded by Che Guevara after the victory of the rebels. This particular chamber was used for executing secret police & others--but far fewer were executed than "exile" legends claim. I would not consider this work wholly complimentary to Castro, et al. However, most young Cubans criticize the status quo for not living up to the ideals of revolution--they want to return to the old days. The artists I have met, especially, realize that they received excellent art educations for free. And they come from families where this would have been impossible in the past.

(No, I haven't been to Cuba. But I've known people who have gone & I've met Cuban artists. This kind of artistic/cultural exchange is now less possible--due to crackdowns since Bush stole Florida.)

Now, things are much better.

Before the 1959 revolution

75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.

More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.

85% had no inside running water.

91% had no electricity.

There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.

More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.

Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.

The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.

45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.

1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).

27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.

Racial discrimination was widespread.

The public school system had deteriorated badly.

Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.

Police brutality and torture were common.

___

After the 1959 revolution

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

No one can say with any credibility that universal education and universal health care is forced on Cubans. Castro didn't give it to them. The Cuban people worked hard to create the infrastructure and systems that they felt were essential for any progressive system.

Cubans wanted universal health care for all Cubans, and they have it. They pushed for government that represented their ideals, and organized and formed infrastructure that enabled Cubans to create a fair and complete h-c system. Cubans wanted universal education for all Cubans, and they have it. They pushed for government that represented their ideals, organized and formed infrastructure that enabled Cubans to create a complete and world class ed system, and they have it. Cubans want to assist the world's poor with doctors and educators, instead of gun ship diplomacy.. and that is what they have done WITH their government, not at odds with their government.

Can Americans make this claim about their own country? I'm afraid not.

Cubans want normalization between the US and Cuba, and they have thrown their doors open to us, but, it is our US government that prevents what the majority of Americans want their government to do - normalize relations. Worse yet, the US government forbids and has criminalized travel to Cuba by Americans - something that Cuba hasn't done.

Viva Cuba!

the quality of life in Cuba is light years ahead of the rest of the hemisphere. The data is available. Democracy ain't all that.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

In Cuba, this raise is significant. Not extravagant no, but significant.

what does that buy, in America because of inflation not very much.
Who knows in Cuba they might be doing OK with that money, esp if they don't need to pay for anything. I make good money, but after paying rent, phone, electric, and for a car their is not much left over.

without realizing many people in this large group have BEEN there, for Chrissakes, and can spot a lie about Cuba a mile away.

Repeating propaganda and all right-wing "news" about Cuba really only works well within the right-wing: people too lazy to start doing research for themselves.

I swear I have read this a few places. Now that is something! Maybe bc they only get two tv channels.

from south Florida cities, from Mexico, other islands, etc., etc.

Cuba used to have a tv station you could get online and watch in the States, but I can't find it any longer. It was really interesting.

They block reception of the American "exile" staffed and programmed propaganda tv station, Radio Marti from Miami. It's crap. We pay around $30,000,000.00 for the Miami right-wing extremists to create programing to send back to the same island where they're not welcome.

I've heard people in Cuba can use antennas and pick up American stations easily.

Git yer photos of Cuba here! Thumbnails, click to enlarge:

http://extras.journalnow.com/cuba/index.htm

Also a lower infant mortality rate, a higher rate of AIDS survivors, a life expectancy that I believe just passed ours, etc etc.

they are exporting doctors, people are enjoying free education and healthcare.

Cuba is truly a lighthouse among the cruel unchecked-capitalism world.

Cuba to Host UN Housing Forums

Havana, Jun 23 (Prensa Latina) Cuba will start national activities to support UN world campaigns for good urban government and housing security.

Cuba, which eliminated eviction and made efforts to guarantee people´s possession of houses, will host several UN international housing forums.

UN Human Settlement Program Managing Director Anna Tibaijuka will visit Havana on Saturday to open the program entitled "Improving the management of our cities and the environment we live in."

The official opening will be held on June 27, in the presence of Cuban People´s Power National Assembly President Ricardo Alarcon, and several UN officials.
(snip)

National Housing Institute Vice President Noelys Borrero praised the participation of top UN officials in the Cuban campaign.
Havana will also host the 5th World Meeting of Sustainable Cities and Local Agenda 21 Programs, sponsored by the UN and the Cuban government, with the participation of 200 delegates from 35 countries.
(snip/)

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7B125A266A-CCC...

throwing some workers a pizza party?

Here's a quick reference to his enduring charm:

A seat is opening up on the Florida Supreme Court, and Gov. Jeb Bush's selection is Raoul Cantero, the only finalist who is not a judge. But he does have certain ideological qualifications. Cantero is the grandson of Cuba's brutal former dictator, General Batista, and his father served granddad as an intelligence officer in Batista's notorious Bureau for Repression of Communist Activities--who through their legacy of political torture and murder, eventually did more to incite communist revolution than to repress it.
(snip/...)

http://www.ww4report.com/48.html#shadows6

whose vicious, U.S.-supported, as the snip pointed out, TRIGGERED the revolution and the present government which followed.

It appears consciousness is not an easy accomplishment for you.

will be easier to grasp:

FULGENCIO BATISTA
President of Cuba

Cuban Army Sergeant Fulgencio Batista first seized power in a 1932 coup. He was President
Roosevelt's handpicked dictator to counteract leftists who had overthrown strongman Cerardo
Machado. Batista ruled or several years, then left for Miami, returning in 1952 just in time for
another coup, against elected president Carlos Prio Socorras. His new regime was quickly
recognized by President Eisenhower. Under Batista, U.S. interests flourished and little was said
about democracy. With the loyal support of Batista, Mafioso boss Meyer Lansky developed
Havana into an international drug port. Cabinet offices were bought and sold and military officials
made huge sums on smuggling and vice rackets. Havana became a fashionable hot spot where
America's rich and famous drank and gambled with mobsters. As the gap between the rich and
poor grew wider, the poor grew impatient. In 1953, Fidel Castro led an armed group of rebels in a
failed uprising on the Moncada army barracks. Castro temporarily fled the country and Batista
struck back with a vengeance. Freedom of speech was curtailed and subversive teachers, lawyers
and public officials were fired from their jobs. Death squads tortured and killed thousands of
"communists". Batista was assisted in his crackdown by Lansky and other members of organized
crime who believed Castro would jeopardize their gambling and drug trade. Despite this, Batista
remained a friend to Eisenhower and the US until he was finally overthrown by Castro in 1959.
(snip)

http://www.omnicenter.org/warpeacecollection/dictators....

Ful-firking-gencio Batista

Woo hoooo!

DU'ers GOT the facts here. All a freep can bring is his ignorance.

Ms. Lynn,

How do you feel about the treatment of gays and lesbians in Cuba today?

Quote from Wikipedia.com:

"Homosexuals are not permitted to join the Communist Party, because being gay is assumed to be contrary to communist ethics. Homosexuality can have an adverse impact on a person's professional career in a society where all senior appointments depend on membership in the country's sole legal party. Cuba tolerates neither lesbian nor gay newspapers, nor LGBT organisations. The Cuban Association of Gays and Lesbians, formed in 1994, was suppressed in 1997 and its members were arrested. Being gay is illegal if it causes a "public offence"; this vague law alas led to the arrest of men who are effeminate."

Yep, Cuba sure sounds like a very progressive country to me. Meanwhile, in our "fundamentalist Christian" country, gays and lesbians take for granted freedoms that the Cuban GLBT community can only dream about.

That's just one example of what I believe to be flawed thinking on your part.

As someone else said, you don't see boats going from the US to Cuba, except when it is wealthy Americans visiting the nicer parts of the Islands.

Americans don't go on cruises to Cuba, or were you unaware of the total travel ban the _Bush administration has placed on Americans?

Are you professing Wikipedia to be infallible? Being gay is most certainly NOT illegal in Cuba, from everything I've heard. I think you've been talking to too many people at Free Republic. They spend an inordinate amount of time trying to investigate just how many gays are getting by with things in Latin America:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skip to comments.

‘INCREASE OF SIN’ : Brazil's homosexual parade = 2 million
RightConservative.com ^ | 05-30-05 | J. Grant Swank, Jr.

Posted on 05/30/2005 7:28:30 PM PDT by RightConservative

Bible believers make daily research of the Scripture’s prophetic passages, attempting to decipher signs of the End Times.

Therefore, when the Gay Pride parade numbering 2 million broke loose in Sao Paulo, Brazil, Christian students of the divine revelation could not help but recall Jesus’ prediction that there would be an "increase of sin" prior to His Second Advent.

Of course, "increase of sin" encompasses a huge scope of wickedness expected to blanket the planet prior to the return of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. However, the global display of practicing homosexual lifestyle as legitimate both by secularists and some religionists is alarming. It’s also right "up there" when it comes to the "increase of sin."

Jesus warned in such key passages as Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 that there would be exceptionally obvious signals trumpeting the nearness of His return to His turf — the Earth. It is the Second Person of the Trinity who created the Earth, maintains it and will eventually rule upon it, thus toppling the "prince of the air" — Beelzebub.
(snip)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1413469/po...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Buenos Aires: South America's New Gay Mecca
Reuters ^ | Mar 7,2004 | Louise Egan

Posted on 03/22/2005 4:26:33 PM PST by Odyssey-x

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Reuters) - Gay tango classes and same-sex unions may not be mentioned in every guidebook, but such attractions are turning Buenos Aires into a new South American mecca for gay travelers.

....

(snip/...)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1368347/posts

More amazing displays of truth seeking:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=south%20ame...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Cuban revolution's record on homosexuals' rights has been the subject of disinformation and misinformation for decades. Previous efforts by Cuba's enemies to make use of the government's 1960s and '70s deficiencies in this area were crowned by "Improper Conduct," Néstor Almendros' 1984 "documentary," which is laden with fabrications, distortions and half-truths.

But the campaign began to founder in the face of significant changes in Cuba. This evolution is symbolized in Tomás Gutiérrez Alea's landmark Cuban film, "Strawberry and Chocolate" (released in the U.S. in 1994), which skewered dogmatic features of the Cuban Communist Party and attacked anti-gay prejudices.

Still, back comes "Before Night Falls" as the slick, bionic offspring of "Improper Conduct" -- an attempt to revive the anti-Cuba crusade of its discredited forebearer. No surprise here. For while ultra-right ideologues simply deny the revolution's irrefutable gains, shrewder opponents of the Cuban government have long targeted its policies regarding gays as an opening for insidious attack. This serves Washington's central campaign against Cuba -- the government's alleged violation of "human rights"-- a campaign which began virtually with the victory of the revolution and has continued without pause ever since.

The extension of Cuban gay rights over the past decade and a half -- and the cessation of the most onerous policies befalling homosexuals another fifteen years earlier -- is a corollary to the expansion of working peoples' rights there. More and more taboos have crumbled under the impact of ever-widening debate and discussion over economic, political, and cultural questions.
(snip/...)

http://www.blythe.org/arenas-e2.html

Lmao.

1) I never said anything about cruises.

2) Plenty of Americans go to Cuba through Canada. I know many people who have done this.

I personally know that there are many gay Cubans in the communist party.

The gusano/antiCuba factions conveniently interpret anti prostitution laws as being anti gay (even though the ardently anti Castro Miamicubano exile factions are virulently homophobic, as exemplified in the numerous votes to restrict gay rights in the City of Miami) . FYI, all prostitution is illegal in Cuba, including gay prostitution.

Granted, there is homophobia in Cuba just as there is in almost every country including the USA, and, unfortunately, it leads to some unjust actions.

Having been to Cuba many times I have seen that gay Cubans are no more castigated than anywhere else. As a matter of fact I posted a thread here on DU about a year ago on the first officially recognized gay marriage in Cuba. Now there have been many more.

One simply can't believe the anti Cuba propaganda that flourishes with the nurture of US/Cuban exile funding. One has to go there to see for oneself.
That is just why the US government has criminalized American travel to the island.. one might see the truth.

He met gays there as well who felt happy with their country. I'd give more
info, but I have forgotten the details and hesitate to try.

As you know, by keeping almost all Americans out of Cuba, the American right-wingnuts who hope to control Cuba soon can say almost anything they want about the place, and getting the truth out where people can know about it is far harder!

If you learn anything more about this, and have the time, please let us Cuban-watching DU'ers know about it on the Cuba threads ahead.

to visit Cuba. I'd love to see it first hand.

DU meet-up in Cuba?

comparing the rights of one group of people is not a valid way to compare countries, for instance compare the freedom granted to blacks under slavery in the US republic compared to the freedoms granted blacks in monarchies without slavery. One could not from that conclude that The monarchies were more progressive forms of government than the republic that unfortunately had slavery.

And comparing the US and Cuba is rediculous. Anyone who expects Cuba to be like the US is confused. You shouldnt compare countries the way you are really, because every country is extremely unique, but if you do, compare Cuba to other Carribean and central/south american countries.

If we were dealing with a lot of bright folks, it wouldn't be necessary, would it?

Right-wingers simply swallow the propaganda, and it never occurs to them they need to think things over. Sad.

and spread democracy to a country run by a brutal dictator who has no regard for human rights.

His people live rent free, have free health care, education, reduced rate utilities and transportation. So they owe the government their undying loyalty.

The premise of the embargo was to destroy the economy, make the dictator weak and allow the people to overthrow the government. Didn't they try that a couple of decades ago going to so far as to believe that the American government would back them in the uprising. We all know how that turned out.

They've abandoned the fight. It's easier to float across that 90 mile stretch, take advantage of all this country has to offer, occasionally complain about conditions on the homeland and drive those SUVs to work everyday. Yep, life is good.

They've abandoned the fight. It's easier to float across that 90 mile stretch, take advantage of all this country has to offer...

Abandon what fight? The fight to recorporatize their infrastructure, re: pre '59 revolution?

Yep, life is good.

The City of Miami is one of the poorest cities in the USA. Life here ain't so good for the poor. (see posts #52 & #59 for an example)

Havana skyline

I hope I can explain myself better than I did in the prior post. This area survives on touristry which equates to the residents paying a higher price for gas, food and entertainment. Granted there are areas that are blighted, low and middle class sections and, of course, the mega rich who can afford to live the good life.

Those who make the journey here want to rejoin their families who left many years ago. They set their foot on dry land and they're here to make the most out of the freedoms this country offers. If that means they have to start at the bottom, so be it. Many immigrants started at the bottom. I know my ancestors did when they came to this country.

The point was if the embargo was to weaken the country in order to the people to overtake the government, it's not working. They're rather come to this country and wait until such time as an easier solution presents itself so they can return to the homeland.

You two seem to be the resident experts on the Cuban subject, so maybe you can help. I've been in Miami a few years now (well, the Gables, anyway,) so I'm well aware of the political dominance the exile community holds. To hear them talk, the only people left in Cuba that support Castro are his armed thugs, and everyone else there is just too scared to speak out or leave. I was wondering if you had any statistics on how much of the population has left Cuba. Just how big a portion of the population is the exile crowd? 25%? 15%? 5%? Less? More? In short, are they a significant part of the Cuban population, or just a small fringe?

I want to know how much of the exile talk is crap (I suspect a lot of it is, but I've never been to Cuba to see for myself...)

I only started trying to find out more during the Elián hostage-keeping episode which lasted so long in Miami. I had never paid any attention to Cuba earlier, as I had only heard propaganda and thought I knew everything!

When I learned Elián's gnarly old great-uncle, Lázaro, had made trips to Cuba for vacations I instantly knew I had been duped about Cuba. Why would someone who had been living in mortal terror of his government even dream of actually showing up right back in the same place he had "fled?" Wouldn't he be afraid of being tossed into prison? So that's when I started keeping my ears and eyes open.

Mika will undoubtedly have something accurate to tell you if he sees your post.

In the meantime, here's an article which was written in 2000, and contains information no doubt begrudgingly admitted by our own CIA, which, as you know, has been behind innumerable actions against Cuba since the 1950's:

CIA: Most Cubans loyal to homeland
Agency believes various ties to island bind the majority
By Robert Windrem
NBC NEWS PRODUCER

NEW YORK, April 12 <2000> — Cuban-American exile leaders — and many Republicans in Congress — believe that no Cuban, including Juan Miguel Gonzalez, could withstand the blandishments of a suburban American lifestyle, that he and all other Cubans would gladly trade their “miserable” lives in Cuba for the prosperity of the United States — if only given the chance. Witness House Minority Leader Dick Armey’s invitation to Gonzalez, offering him a tour of a local supermarket. But U.S. intelligence suggests otherwise.

THE CIA has long believed that while 1 million to 3 million Cubans would leave the island if they had the opportunity, the rest of the nation’s 11 million people would stay behind.

While an extraordinarily high number, there are still 8 million to 10 million Cubans happy to remain on the island.
(snip)

The CIA believes there are many reasons Cubans are content to remain in their homeland. Some don’t want to be separated from home, family and friends. Some fear they would never be able to return, and still others just fear change in general. Officials also say there is a reservoir of loyalty to Fidel Castro and, as in the case of Juan Miguel Gonzalez, to the Communist Party.

U.S. officials say they no longer regard Cuba as a totalitarian state with aggressive policies toward its people, but instead an authoritarian state, where the public can operate within certain bounds — just not push the envelope.

More important, Cuban media and Cuban culture long ago raised the banner of nationalism above that of Marxism. The intelligence community says the battle over Elian has presented Castro with a “unique opportunity” to enhance that nationalism.

There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.
(snip/...)

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html

P R, I live in the Gables also.

Here's an article I found from The Hurricane Online (FYI, UofM is the home of "Casa Bacardi" where the plotting for a "transition" of Cuba takes place for when Castro dies. Its very similar to the plan the US has for Iraq - the complete corporatization of the entire Cuban infrastructure. It is funded by anti Cuba terra supporting Bacardi.)
http://www.thehurricaneonline.com/media/paper479/news/2...

CUBANS IN AMERICA
Cubans in the U.S. since 1959

- Since Fidel Castro came to power in 1959, nearly half a million Cubans have come to the U.S.

- Miami is home to about 50 percent of the Cuban American population. New York is home to about 20 percent of
the population.

- Florida, Texas, New York, California, Illinois
and New Jersey are the six states with the
largest Cuban populations.

- Cubans are the third largest Spanish- speaking minority in the U.S.

source: www.Latinamericanstudies.org

So, about 250,000 Cuban immigrants reside in the City of Miami. Miami-Dade county has a pop of over 2.7 million, the City of Miami's pop is about 370,000.

Miami demographics
http://rumler.com/miami /

Here's another good read about Miami-Dade,

Born in U.S.A.? Not in Miami

In Miami-Dade County, more than half
the residents were born in another country.
That's the highest rate for any county in
the country.
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/03/State/Born_in_USA_Not...

______________________

click the pic to find out why

Maybe this pbs article can answer some of those questions. See the section Four Waves.

Some links where you can find out about el exilie and the very lucrative anti-Cuba industry in Miami.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

History of Cuba, a great website maintained by someone who was born in Cuba and maintains the site out of love and not any political agenda.

http://www.historyofcuba.com/cuba.htm

Progeso Weekly--Francisco Aruca's website that keeps track of the RW wackos in Miami and elsewhere. For anyone interested in Cuba, this is a must read. You can also listen to his radio program http://www.progresoweekly.com/index.php?progreso=listen...

http://www.progresoweekly.com /

The book Cuba Confidential : Love and Vengeance in Miami and Havana by Ann Louise Bardach. Excellent background on exile history and the US government role in trying to overthrow the Cuban government both Dem and Repuke administrations--the only exception was Jimmy Carter who wanted to normalize relations with the island.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/038572052...

Bardach's excellent interview with terrorist Luis Posada-Carriles--now being protected by the Bushistas--in 1998 where he admitted he was a terrorist.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/144.html

Last, but by no means least, CIP Online of which Cuba expert and former diplomat to Cuba, Wayne Smith, is a Senior Fellow. His editorials often appear in the South Florida papers.

included with a great timeline about Posada at CIP Online.

http://ciponline.org/cuba/cubaandterrorism/Posada.htm

Got some reading to do...

Havana, June 26 / 17:57 UTC

US Academics Call to Support Cuba

Havana, Jun 26 (Prensa Latina) A group of US philosophers and sociologists has issued a statement at the end of a five-day meeting here deploring the Bush Administration hard-line policy against Cuba.

The document also demands the extradition to Venezuela of terrorist of Cuban origin Luis Posada Carriles, who masterminded the 1976 mid-air bombing of a Cuban commercial plane killing all 73 people on board.

The notorious terrorist, currently detained in the US just for violating immigration laws, is also the confessed organizer of bomb attacks against Cuban tourist facilities in 1997 and 1998. In one of the sabotages an Italian businessman got killed.

The academics also urged to lift the over-four-decade blockade of Cuba and to overrule travel restrictions imposed on US and Cuban-American citizens.

Another demand is the release of the Cuban Five jailed in US for collecting information on extremist Cuban-American groupings in south Florida with a beefy dossier of anti-Cuba terrorist activities.
(snip/...)

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BD735540E-313...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Probably an accident news of our own citizens attending an important meeting in Cuba didn't get published here.... as always.

FREE. CUBA. NOW.

Castro must go where?

Like it or not, the fact is that most Cubans in Cuba revere Mr Castro.

He drives around in an open jeep with no armed guards.

He speaks at rallies before millions with no bullet proof glass or vest.

He was never a chickenshit coke snortin' frat boy who skipped out on serving his fellow countrymen/women. He personally led many of the charges in the '59 revolution that loosed the US shackles on Cuba as well as led the defense against the US invasion of their homeland.

He is a living revolutionary war hero to Cubans in Cuba.

when your government controls all the information people can receive, there's no freedom of expression, and you've pumped your nation with so much propaganda for decades they can't even think straight anymore.

You really think absolute rule is better than democracy? Fine. Then keep loving that evil bastard Castro.

..Neither do Cubans in Cuba

Here are some of the major parties in Cuba. The union parties hold the majority of seats in the Assembly.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html
* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Plenty of info on this long thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/du...

http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm
This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

--

Representative Fidel Castro was elected to the National Assembly as a representative of District #7 Santiago de Cuba.
He is one of the elected 607 representatives in the Cuban National Assembly. It is from that body that the head of state is nominated and then elected. Raul Castro, Carlos Large, and Ricardo Alarcon and others were among the nominated last year. President Castro has been elected to that position since 1976, the year that the Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/do/Dorticos.html

Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo

1919–83, president of Cuba (1959–76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro’s revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro’s triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.h...

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/096850840...

when your government controls all the information people can receive, there's no freedom of expression, and you've pumped your nation with so much propaganda for decades they can't even think straight anymore.

Doesn't this sound like Bush's America? The land of the "Free Speech" zones! The land of the corporate media telling us everything about Jacko and a missing blonde coed in Aruba while ignoring the mess that Bush got us into.

Describes the USSA to a T. Consequently, we have a nation of

Hmmm, there must be some reason that the US government wants to keep Americans from seeing Cuba for themselves (in the dark), and controlling all of the information that Americans get about Cuba for decades.

Hmmm, maybe its because that what most Americans "know" about Cuba (from the decades of propaganda that has been pumped into them) isn't true.

In my case, that is just what was discovered by going to Cuba.

Another look at "crumbling" Havana

even today most 'muriKans will say. Cuba? Where's that? They say the same about LatAm. I read recently that we only get about 10% international news. The majority of *news* is infotainment crap--Jacko, the runaway bride, and a missing muriKan in Aruba pass as *news*.

Nice pics!!

"Cuba Libre," A Poem by Ernest H. Crosby

When we sailed from Tampa Bay,
"Cuba Libre!"
And our ships got under weigh,
"Cuba Libre!"
As we floated down the tide,
Crowding to the steamer's side,
You remember how we cried,
"Cuba Libre!"

When we spied the island shore,
"Cuba Libre!"
Then we shouted loud once more,
"Cuba Libre!"
As we sank Cervera's ships
Where the southern sea wall dips,
What again was on our lips?
"Cuba Libre!"

These are foreign word, you know-
"Cuba Libre!"
That we used so long ago;
"Cuba Libre!"
And in all the time between
Such a lot of things we've seen,
We've forgotten what they mean
"Cuba Libre!"

Let us ask the President,
"Cuba Libre!"
What that bit of Spanish meant,
"Cuba Libre!"
Ask McKinley, Root and Hay
What on earth we meant to say,
When we shouted night and day
"Cuba Libre!"

But alas! They will not speak
"Cuba Libre!"
For their memories are weak,
"Cuba Libre!"
If you have a lexicon,
Borrowed from a Spanish don,
Send it down to Washington,
"Cuba Libre!"

In 1902, Ernest H. Crosby wrote "Captain Jinks, Hero," a novel satirizing the war fever and the betrayal of the Cubans and Filipinos by the government.

http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/scaw/scaw5b.htm

If the Cubans wanted to be *freed* they'd do it themselves--their history proves that.

I'd never ever expect I'd be saying this:	HypnoToad	Jun-24-05 01:46 AM	#1
The day is soon approaching when Americans get on rafts to flee to Cuba	IndianaGreen	Jun-24-05 01:52 AM	#2
this is no joking given both countries	ckramer	Jun-24-05 09:52 AM	#19
Sounds far fetched but	zippy890	Jun-26-05 03:02 PM	#67
Prior to the Revolution, anti-Semitism and racism had official sanction	IndianaGreen	Jun-26-05 04:22 PM	#70
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-27-05 11:39 PM	#147
$2 a month more. $24 a year.	robcon	Jun-24-05 02:19 AM	#3
Stop reading the CANF propaganda!	IndianaGreen	Jun-24-05 02:48 AM	#6
Yea i don't see me making a raft out of my truck and heading for Cuba	TX-RAT	Jun-24-05 10:20 AM	#21
You'd be in trouble with Bush's administration if you tried.	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 10:45 AM	#22
recurring waves of violence from the U.S. for over 40 years.	TX-RAT	Jun-24-05 10:58 AM	#23
Agreed..	Mika	Jun-24-05 11:04 AM	#24
Here's a summary of action from 1990 to 2001.	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 11:18 AM	#25
I like how they completely ignored your point...	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 09:18 AM	#153
Except that rent, education, and healthcare are free.	Massacure	Jun-24-05 11:32 AM	#26
Yeah. It hardly seems worth getting out of bed in the morning	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 05:32 PM	#36
I don't know whether to be impressed or not.	igil	Jun-26-05 10:08 PM	#90
So there up to what, 40 dollars a month?	davepc	Jun-24-05 02:30 AM	#4
"most citizens pay no rent, education and health care are free"	IndianaGreen	Jun-24-05 02:38 AM	#5
and most citizens live in squalor, cant speak out against the government	davepc	Jun-24-05 02:49 AM	#7
And the US has kept an embargo against Cuba for decades	IndianaGreen	Jun-24-05 03:00 AM	#8
Ok	TeddyBear77	Jun-24-05 07:00 PM	#39
So that means that the trade embargo shouldn't be lifted???	cire4	Jun-24-05 07:13 PM	#41
You need to do your homework.	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 07:26 PM	#43
Look	TeddyBear77	Jun-24-05 07:49 PM	#46
Hellllooo, what kinda koolaid you drinkin' there, pal.	Say_What	Jun-24-05 09:06 PM	#49
Look at how inefficient their health care and ed systems are. LOL	Mika	Jun-24-05 10:01 PM	#50
2005 stats from the CIA about Cuba and the US	Say_What	Jun-24-05 10:39 PM	#51
Interesting how immigrants from Cuba (to the right-wing sensibility)	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 07:33 PM	#44
Excellent summary of Lázaro Muñero, Judi Lynn	Mika	Jun-25-05 12:27 PM	#52
So THAT'S what sank them! Damn. Had he had more self-control	Judi Lynn	Jun-26-05 12:27 PM	#59
Apparently we're supposed to forget migration in the Caribbean	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 03:18 AM	#9
Holy shit, you are actually thinking	Vladimir	Jun-24-05 06:49 AM	#15
It wears me out, Vladimir, headaches, too!	Judi Lynn	Jun-26-05 01:09 PM	#62
thanks.	mom cat	Jun-24-05 07:52 AM	#16
Here's some migration which has been defeated,from a situation	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 01:22 PM	#31
Controversy is forbidden?	Bridget Burke	Jun-24-05 09:08 AM	#17
Wrong. Most Cubans lived in squalor before the 1959 revolution.	Mika	Jun-24-05 09:18 AM	#18
The bottom line is that	malaise	Jun-24-05 05:35 PM	#37
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-27-05 11:41 PM	#148
The value of money is VERY relative	tkmorris	Jun-24-05 04:16 AM	#14
You have to think	RawMaterials	Jun-28-05 11:16 AM	#159
I love it when someone decides he'll give DU'ers a view of Cuba	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 03:40 AM	#10
Doesn't Cuba have a higher literacy rate than the US?	freeplessinseattle	Jun-24-05 04:01 AM	#11
DU'ers who have been to Cuba tell us they can get tv stations	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 04:13 AM	#12
They do	tkmorris	Jun-24-05 04:15 AM	#13
Not only that	ckramer	Jun-24-05 09:56 AM	#20
Cuba to Host UN Housing Forums	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 12:06 PM	#27
Why is $24/year a news story? What next, a LBN thread about Castro	geek tragedy	Jun-24-05 12:10 PM	#28
Wow! The dictator is so great, such a humanitarian! *nm	underthedome	Jun-24-05 12:15 PM	#29
You're probably thinking of the U.S.-supported dictator, Fulgencio Batista	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 12:27 PM	#30
This thread has nothing to do with Florida's Supreme Court, nice derail	underthedome	Jun-24-05 02:44 PM	#32
The link pointed to the brutal dictator of Cuba	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 04:39 PM	#33
Maybe this very simple description of the brutal dictator of Cuba	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 04:48 PM	#34
So where's that Freep-fest?	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 05:15 PM	#35
So tell me	TeddyBear77	Jun-24-05 06:54 PM	#38
You need to spend more time reading.	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 07:10 PM	#40
Heh	TeddyBear77	Jun-24-05 07:46 PM	#45
O.K. See ya later. Got to spend the evening elsewhere. n/t	Judi Lynn	Jun-24-05 07:50 PM	#47
adios	TeddyBear77	Jun-24-05 08:09 PM	#48
Completely bogus info	Mika	Jun-24-05 07:25 PM	#42
A gay friend went to Cuba and loved it....	Jade Fox	Jun-25-05 01:21 PM	#53
Thanks for adding your comments, Jade Fox.	Judi Lynn	Jun-25-05 09:45 PM	#55
It's long been a dream of mine...	Jade Fox	Jun-26-05 11:47 AM	#57
Simply speaking to your argument	K-W	Jun-25-05 01:45 PM	#54
Good point. It needed to be pointed out.	Judi Lynn	Jun-25-05 09:47 PM	#56
How's the weather in Miami today?	mitchum	Jun-26-05 11:57 AM	#58
So why haven't we invaded Cuba?	blondie333	Jun-26-05 12:36 PM	#60
I'm not quite sure of what you're implying	Mika	Jun-26-05 12:55 PM	#61
"I'm not quite sure of what you're implying"	blondie333	Jun-26-05 01:27 PM	#63
Mika and/or Judi	PermanentRevolution	Jun-26-05 01:54 PM	#64
Mika is definitely the one who knows about Cuba, PermanentRevolution	Judi Lynn	Jun-26-05 02:05 PM	#66
Here's some stats	Mika	Jun-26-05 04:19 PM	#68
Here's a start...	Say_What	Jun-26-05 04:21 PM	#69
Great essential links, Say_What	Mika	Jun-26-05 04:38 PM	#71
Great photo of the anti-terror march down the Malacon....	Say_What	Jun-26-05 04:50 PM	#72
Thanks to both of you	PermanentRevolution	Jun-26-05 06:43 PM	#82
US Academics Call to Support Cuba	Judi Lynn	Jun-26-05 01:55 PM	#65
Castro must go. It's long overdue.	Placebo	Jun-26-05 04:54 PM	#73
Where?	Mika	Jun-26-05 05:05 PM	#75
Well, it's safe to drive around so openly...	Placebo	Jun-26-05 05:33 PM	#78
No I don't..	Mika	Jun-26-05 05:42 PM	#79
I believe you are describing the United States of America..	IndianaGreen	Jun-26-05 05:50 PM	#81
"so much propaganda for decades they can't even think straight anymore"	Say_What	Jun-26-05 09:56 PM	#89
If Americans want to dispel the propaganda - end the travel sanctions.	Mika	Jun-26-05 10:21 PM	#91
Right!! Until little Elian graced our hostile shores, Cuba was invisible	Say_What	Jun-26-05 10:34 PM	#94
Spoken like a true GUSANO....	Say_What	Jun-26-05 05:08 PM	#76
Really?	Placebo	Jun-26-05 05:31 PM	#77
Then you know sh*t about Cuban history	Say_What	Jun-26-05 09:39 PM	#88
your post on Cuba match your name to a T	bpilgrim	Jun-26-05 10:28 PM	#92
Cuba is free now, ever since January 1, 1959	IndianaGreen	Jun-26-05 05:47 PM	#80
Define "free"...	Beel2112	Jun-26-05 07:26 PM	#84
I'm on my way to my own evening, but will check this threads again	Judi Lynn	Jun-26-05 08:01 PM	#85
Interesting...	Beel2112	Jun-26-05 11:56 PM	#96
Huh? Absolute nonsense	Mika	Jun-26-05 09:14 PM	#87
Um, no.	Beel2112	Jun-26-05 11:35 PM	#95
Go ahead and rewrite the rest of the Cuban constitution. LOL	Mika	Jun-27-05 08:15 AM	#101
I'm not rewriting anything...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 08:38 AM	#103
"...the rest of the world knows to be true"	Say_What	Jun-27-05 05:17 PM	#118
"proper english" LOL.	Mika	Jun-27-05 11:21 PM	#143
Representative?????	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 09:40 AM	#154
Yep	Mika	Jun-28-05 10:08 AM	#155
Your own source confirmed what I've been saying:	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 11:07 AM	#157
More Freedom House swill? LOL	Mika	Jun-28-05 07:15 PM	#174
Ha! Freedom House takes our taxes, and then gives us back propaganda.	Judi Lynn	Jun-28-05 07:28 PM	#175
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 09:47 PM	#180
Wanting to leave and supporting the opposition are	Vladimir	Jun-28-05 09:53 PM	#181
The article still doesn't justify the statement	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 10:48 PM	#183
Speaking of switching the subject..	Mika	Jun-28-05 11:23 PM	#184
Its a non-sequitur, not a non-sequitor n/t	Vladimir	Jun-29-05 04:28 AM	#186
So in other words...	Beel2112	Jun-29-05 07:32 AM	#188
Not really	Vladimir	Jun-29-05 09:18 AM	#190
Oh, you should have taken time to think it through.	Judi Lynn	Jun-28-05 10:17 PM	#182
You've missed the point.	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 11:57 PM	#185
Correction/Update	Beel2112	Jun-29-05 09:00 AM	#189
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 09:03 PM	#179
Your avatar says it all.	Placebo	Jun-26-05 09:08 PM	#86
Oooh, who's afraid of the big bad Marx? n/t	Vladimir	Jun-26-05 10:28 PM	#93
The choice is between socialism or barbarism	IndianaGreen	Jun-27-05 12:09 AM	#97
Marx & Bad Economics...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 07:28 AM	#98
Great website!	Bridget Burke	Jun-27-05 07:37 AM	#99
Wow, that totally refuted his claims!	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 08:14 AM	#100
FYI, Cuba is socialist not Marxist.	Mika	Jun-27-05 08:21 AM	#102
Interesting how your point was completely ignored....	Say_What	Jun-27-05 02:08 PM	#112
You're getting political analysis from a Star Wars/Star Trek site.	Bridget Burke	Jun-27-05 09:50 AM	#104
Yes, yes I am.	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 11:43 AM	#105
Heeelloooo, the guy's an ENGINEER	Say_What	Jun-27-05 01:54 PM	#111
Except that they are full of shit	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 12:18 PM	#106
WTF Star Wars vs Star Trek??? An exellent breakdon of Marxism???	Say_What	Jun-27-05 12:21 PM	#107
Just so we can be clear on this...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 12:57 PM	#108
In response to this stuff on human nature	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 01:10 PM	#109
Let me take a few minutes...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 03:44 PM	#114
Thank you for that lesson in debating	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 10:59 PM	#139
LOL and capitalism is a success??? At the expense of how many lives?	Say_What	Jun-27-05 01:46 PM	#110
Wow...just...wow...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 02:27 PM	#113
Oh, my... BIG YAWN	Say_What	Jun-27-05 04:32 PM	#115
That's right, pretend you have a leg to stand on.	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 05:09 PM	#117
Waaaa, waaaaa, waaaa	Say_What	Jun-27-05 05:20 PM	#119
Let me get this straight:	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 05:25 PM	#120
Keep going it's entertaining :-)	Say_What	Jun-27-05 05:48 PM	#122
That's right--you win!	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 06:09 PM	#123
Pooor baby.	Say_What	Jun-27-05 06:14 PM	#124
So in conclusion...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 06:25 PM	#125
See post 126.	Say_What	Jun-27-05 06:36 PM	#127
Do you support Pinochet too??	Say_What	Jun-27-05 06:31 PM	#126
Geez...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 08:17 PM	#128
So you've deduced Chile's economy under Allende was in shambles.	Judi Lynn	Jun-27-05 09:10 PM	#129
Yeah, we blockaded them...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 10:58 PM	#138
Actually what is funny here is that nothing in that	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 11:06 PM	#140
Do you see that part in bold?	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 11:19 PM	#142
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-27-05 11:30 PM	#145
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 07:43 AM	#151
More info. on the U.S. right-wing destruction of Chile's elected President	Judi Lynn	Jun-27-05 11:47 PM	#149
Countrystudies.us?	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 09:21 PM	#130
Exactly!!! LOL	Say_What	Jun-27-05 09:49 PM	#133
I'm getting sick of saying this, but...	Beel2112	Jun-27-05 11:14 PM	#141
Um, the subject is Cuba raising salaries to teachers & Drs.	Mika	Jun-27-05 11:25 PM	#144
Picking and choosing sources is a pretty important part	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 11:30 PM	#146
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 07:36 AM	#150
The Chilean coup was Allende's fault?? Man, are you transparent...	Say_What	Jun-27-05 09:49 PM	#132
No doubt you think that the School of the Americas spreads democracy	Say_What	Jun-27-05 10:11 PM	#134
And the National Endowment for Democracy	Vladimir	Jun-27-05 10:17 PM	#135
Your "argument" is bullshit.	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 10:38 AM	#156
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 11:10 AM	#158
No, your silly ass claim that Mr Allende brought the coup on himself	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 11:23 AM	#161
Again, come back when you know some basic economics	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 11:37 AM	#162
Haaahaaahaaahaaa. Tell you what. I don't have to come back.	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 11:56 AM	#164
Uh-huh...	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 01:29 PM	#165
Well, let's see.	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 02:00 PM	#166
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 05:32 PM	#173
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 07:56 PM	#177
"Risking American Workers Pensions on the Dubious Success Pinochet's Econo	Judi Lynn	Jul-06-05 03:39 AM	#214
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-28-05 08:37 PM	#178
So what?	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-29-05 10:12 AM	#191
You're reversing cause and effect.	Beel2112	Jun-29-05 11:28 AM	#192
I'm doing no such thing.	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-29-05 11:57 AM	#193
Actually you are.	Beel2112	Jun-29-05 01:26 PM	#194
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-29-05 01:55 PM	#195
Anyone else see the pattern here?	Beel2112	Jun-29-05 05:00 PM	#196
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-29-05 06:01 PM	#198
CIA Acknowledges Ties to Pinochet’s Repression	Say_What	Jun-29-05 06:12 PM	#199
I'm not arguing that the CIA had no ties to Pinochet	Beel2112	Jun-29-05 08:15 PM	#200
Kissinger and Nixon phone call 5 days after the coup is damning	Say_What	Jun-29-05 10:27 PM	#201
Okay...	Beel2112	Jun-30-05 12:45 AM	#202
It's called plausible deniability. The minority in this case was a	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-30-05 09:50 AM	#203
"How you keep defending this bullshit is beyond me. "	Say_What	Jun-30-05 10:05 AM	#204
Agreed. ..............Venceremos. n/t	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-30-05 10:20 AM	#207
And to think this thread was about Cuban Drs & teachers pay raise.	Mika	Jun-30-05 10:09 AM	#205
It's partly my fault. Now back to the original topic. n/t	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-30-05 10:19 AM	#206
Search engines are such amazing little things ;-)	Say_What	Jun-30-05 10:29 AM	#208
Impressive seeing his boast he has outfoxed DU moderators.	Judi Lynn	Jun-30-05 11:04 AM	#209
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-30-05 01:59 PM	#211
Kicking a dead horse.	Beel2112	Jun-30-05 01:38 PM	#210
Deleted message	Name removed	Jun-30-05 05:29 PM	#212
Project FUBELT and Documents, DECLASSIFED in 2000	Say_What	Jun-29-05 05:57 PM	#197
OT: Star Trek irony	Lilith Velkor	Jun-28-05 04:58 PM	#170
Get out of here with that space commie crap ;-). n/t	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 05:02 PM	#171
sigh The term is space socialist.	Lilith Velkor	Jun-28-05 05:27 PM	#172
LOL. That was good. n/t	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 07:51 PM	#176
Hey, long time no see my friend	Vladimir	Jun-28-05 03:43 PM	#167
Not bad, not bad at all.	Guy Whitey Corngood	Jun-28-05 04:09 PM	#168
LOL! n/t	Vladimir	Jun-28-05 04:20 PM	#169
best. site. ever.	foo_bar	Jun-27-05 05:26 PM	#121
Does it mean, We've been through 3.5 million years of evolution and	AlphaCentauri	Jun-27-05 04:36 PM	#116
hmmm	UCSBLiberalCat53	Jun-26-05 05:02 PM	#74
Not another label-flinging "dictator-humper" accuser on deck. Jeez.	Judi Lynn	Jun-26-05 07:07 PM	#83
Excellent open letter from Green Left to Amnesty USA on "dissidents"	Judi Lynn	Jun-27-05 09:41 PM	#131
I have to wonder what this means. Does this info. compromise	Judi Lynn	Jun-27-05 10:21 PM	#136
Ooooookaaayy....	Beel2112	Jun-28-05 08:38 AM	#152
This thread was about Cuba raising salaries to Drs and teachers	Mika	Jun-27-05 10:52 PM	#137
I'm sure they are just confused.	CanSocDem	Jun-28-05 11:17 AM	#160
best post on this thread. welcome to DU CanSocDem n/t	paagal kutta	Jun-29-05 06:43 AM	#187
Gorgeous photos, Mika.From the same people who can keep those vintage cars	Judi Lynn	Jul-06-05 03:24 AM	#213
To Mika and Judi, THANK YOU! This is a most amazing, informative thread.	anarchy1999	Jun-28-05 11:52 AM	#163