U.S. Uncovers Vast Hide-Out of Iraqi Rebels -NYT

[Rose Siding]

BAGHDAD, Iraq, June 4 - American marines have discovered an elaborate series of underground bunkers used recently by insurgents in central Iraq, with heavy weapons, a kitchen and fresh food, furnished living quarters, showers and even a working air-conditioner, the military said Saturday.

The bunkers were built into an old rock quarry north of the town of Karma, an insurgent stronghold in Anbar Province that lies near the city of Falluja. The bunker system measures 546 feet by 883 feet, making it the largest underground insurgent hide-out to be discovered in at least the past year, if not during the entire war, said Capt. Jeffrey S. Pool, a spokesman for the Second Marine Division, charged with controlling western Iraq.
...
The insurgents had apparently installed the creature comforts of home within the hide-out. The complex included four fully furnished living spaces, two showers and an air-conditioner, the military said. Temperatures in the deserts of Anbar Province can approach a scorching 130 degrees in the summertime.

Decades ago, Saddam Hussein and his aides began building an extensive series of underground bunkers scattered around Iraq. Mr. Hussein hired German engineers in the 1980's to work on these lairs, which included tunnels and chambers beneath palaces in Baghdad and Mosul. It is not known, however, whether the quarry bunker is part of that network.

http://nytimes.com/2005/06/05/international/middleeast/05iraq.html?hp&ex=1117944000&en=ffe93dec4e1b8713&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Webster Green]

1. Karma......

Oh, the irony!

[SpiralHawk]

2. Karma

Gonna catch one and all.

[louis-t]

3. Why do I have trouble believing this?

Sometimes these reports just don't feel right.

[Missy M]

4. I agree with you...

they are always finding hideouts but no people, why is that?

[Boo Boo]

26. The reason why the insurgents seem to always

split before we show up is that they have infiltrated Iraqi army and police forces, US base support personnel, government offices, etc. They know the language (obviously), they know the locals (they are the locals), and they watch/track our movements carefully.

They know we're coming, and they split.

[drdtroit]

39. and don't forget the laptops with contact databases,

assorted operational plans, WMD recipes, "my favorite terrorist" photo albums, etc.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. You're not the only one, believe me.

[expatriot]

7. german engineering company?

Don't you think the blueprints, notes, communications of a multi-national company like this would be accessible by the US intelligence community so that the US military would not have to "find" these bunkers? Or is our intelligence community really actually that inept.

[Rose Siding]

10. We heard about this a lot during the initial invasion

I remember reading about tunnels wide enough for military vehicles beneath Baghdad, where Saddam would retreat to wreak havoc.

The anchors warned that he'd blow them up once soldiers went inside to chase him.

Then, *poof*, no more rpts. I believe it was all hype.

[KoKo]

37. Saddam's old abandoned bunkers, and left over crap. Ho Hum..zzzzzz

snooze....another Bushie tale of finding WMD's.

[Bob3]

8. Because it's not something a guerrilla force would use

they need to keep light and mobile - this is the kind of thing main force units use - like the US army or the old Iraqi army. You expect there to be a Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Burger King in the damn place (with Halberton running it - which I wouldn't put past those swine)

[ovidsen]

31. Agreed. This doesn't pass the smell test.

An underground complex with space equivalent to 1/3 the office space in the Empire State Building? And it took them 2 years to find it? And it has just one entrance? (Conveniently hidden by a freezer chest) And 2 showers?

I can't wait to see the guided tour on Faux Nooz... but I'm not holding my breath.

[Cocoa]

35. because of these three little words

"the military said"

[sidpleasant]

45. And not one photo of this marvel!

You'd think that the military could produce a few pictures of the insurgency's sinister underground fortress. Maybe all camera - phones have been confiscated in the wake of the Abu Ghraib pictures scandal.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

6. well, we turned the corner this time, yessiree

[Botany]

9. got their hide out ......check

free elections ........ check
* says that Iraq has it's own forces ....... check
Chalibi in charge of the oil ............. check
fox news says things going well ........ check
Cheney says Iraqi rebels in final throes ....... check
freedom is on the march ........ check

Mission Accomplished ........ check

OK time to bring the troops home.

[VegasWolf]

23. "Vast Hide-out" = "all of Iraq outside Green Zone inside Baghdad" n/t

[K-W]

11. So we discovered what was probably a Saddam bunker that

may have recently housed some number of insurgents.


Wow, great work US.

[leftchick]

12. and no one was home!

Go USA! :eyes:

[madrchsod]

13. let`s see..hmmmmmm

it`s a hot place-caves are cooler-i`ve got it! those clever iraqi`s must have figured out that a cave is alot cooler than the desert and it doesn`t take alot of work to build a decent place to live. showers-air conditioner? must have been the long extension cord and the water pipe that tipped the us forces off to the location.....

[Maple]

14. Reminds me

of that fantastic luxurious mountain hideaway bin Laden was said to have.

[lyonn]

27. Right!

Didn't they end up being smelly with papers thrown around and disorganized? No TV, computers, comfy sofas, microwaves, port-apotties, etc.

[Rainscents]

15. It seems like, US make up stories all the time... What's the motive?

I get it... continue brain washing right wing nuts!

[Crunchy Frog]

16. Four living spaces and two showers. Wow!

That discovery should certainly mark a turning point in the battle against the insurgents.:sarcasm:

[LiberallyInclined]

36. and an AIR CONDITIONER!

who knows- it might have been one of those 15,000 btu jobs...or god forbid- a pinguino!

[niceypoo]

43. Must be a reeeally reeeally BIG air condtioner

to cool a 546 feet by 883 feet bunker system.

[blindpig]

17. it's deju vu all over again

Is it any suprise that we keep flashing on Nam? Jesus, this reads just as though it's the Iron Triangle all over again. You can't believe anything from these fucks, it's ALL PR.

[wolfgirl]

18. Another possible idea...

a family (or 2 or 3) live in this space...in fear of what/who may come after them, they have the heavy weapons for safety.

At this point, it is so hard to know what is truth, partial truth, lie, partial lie....this could be anything or nothing. Of course, if the information is coming from this administration, odds are there is very little truth involved, or just enough truth to give them plausible deniability.

[LiberalVoice]

19. Shouldn't it say "U.S. Uncovers Vast Hide-Out for Iraqi Rebels"?

The actual headline, "U.S. Uncovers Vast Hide-Out of Iraqi Rebels", makes it sound like they caught a bunch of insurgents in an underground bunker.

[Zhade]

32. Well, that's clearly a typo! I mean, the corporate media, dishonest?

Why do you hate America? WHY???

[Zorra]

20. Leonard Skinner discovers vast rebel hideout in Mississippi.

[tsuki]

40. Florida and Alabama have a joint rebel hideout.

The Flora~Bama.

[0007]

21. .....what type of heavy weapons?

You'd kind of think that this find would be kept secret. But then again when Democracy is on the march, goody two shoes has to be informed of the great progress.

[Dover]

Hmmm...maybe Cheney can find some design ideas for his bunkers

Desert chic....what a nice touch! And if would go so well with the blue drapes Ashcroft recommended!

[Dover]

22. .

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Probably a bandit hide-out

It sounds so minor as to be almost negligible. Of course, this is the week that all the "look how desperate the insurgents are" stories will come out. Then they'll kill another 50 US troops this month leaving all the geniuses of the New York Times and cable news shows shaking their heads. But it won't matter, since nobody keeps track of anything from month to month. What was said last month is lost. If it's not on Hardball it doesn't exist...:eyes:

[TexasLawyer]

25. The bunker's getting bigger by the minute...

At 3:09pm, 6/4/05, paragraph 2 now reads:

"The bunkers were built into an old rock quarry north of the town of Karma, an insurgent stronghold in Anbar Province that lies near the city of Falluja. The bunker system is 558 feet by 902 feet, nearly equal to a quarter of the Empire State Building's office space, making it the largest underground insurgent hide-out to be discovered in at least the past year, if not during the entire war, said Capt. Jeffrey S. Pool, a spokesman for the Second Marine Division."

The paragraph you posted earlier today says the dimensions are only 546 feet by 883, and there is no reference to the Empire State Building.

In any event, the outside dimensions of a tunnel system does not tell you much. If it was 100% open floor space it would likely collapse. The area that was actually hollowed out and usable was probably significantly smaller than this, and I would think that the reference to the office space inside the Empire State Building is really misleading.

[daleo]

28. This is just a consequence of the expansion of the universe.

Bunkers are bound to get bigger as time goes on. The same thing applies to the rest of Iraq. A potential consequence of this could be a U.S. military draft, to patrol all that extra territory.

[TexasLawyer]

29. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks! n/t

[Zhade]

33. Your astonomical theory makes sense.

After all, there's a big black hole in Iraq sucking in our blood and treasure.

[elvisbear]

41. Must have forgot the old saying, "Measure twice, lie once."

[TexasLawyer]

30. "German engineers"?-- the ones who worked for Bechtel???

"Mr. Hussein hired German engineers in the 1980's to work on these lairs, which included tunnels and chambers beneath palaces in Baghdad and Mosul."

Of course the U.S. could not possibly have built these bunkers! But wait...

BECHTEL UNVEILED

<snip>

Bechtel still secretly specialises in the construction of military bases, especially underground bunkers. Responsible not only for the construction and maintenance of many of America's, and it's allies, army and airbases, including the famous Area 51/Groom Lake, the NORAD complex inside Cheyenne mountain and a host of top secret underground facilities, Bechtel also built Saddam Hussein's bunkers in Iraq when he was a US 'ally'.

A somewhat goofy-looking article, and I don't have time to research this, but it looks like very irresponsible reporting to imply that that Germans were responsible for most tunnels and bunkers in Iraq.

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/DionysianUnderground/bechtel.htm

[Barrett808]

34. In fact, German firms did build a lot of subsurface Iraqi installations

German firms also built the chemical weapons plants, particularly at Samarra.

The US facilitated ballistic missile production. Anthrax and other biotoxins were shipped as part of the "agricultural development" aid. Some $5 billion in weapons loans were also laundered through the Dept. of Agriculture and BNL Atlanta.

[Rose Siding]

38. Knight Ridder has some other details...

snip>
"This shows the failure of the Marines. It was close to their base and they could not see it," said the mufti, who formerly sat on the council that directed insurgents in Fallujah. He spoke by phone Saturday evening on the condition of anonymity. "The Americans think they know everything. But when they came to Iraq they thought the people would receive them with flowers. Instead of flowers they found these bunkers."

Haitham al-Dulaimi, who works at a garage in Ramadi, had a similar reaction.

"Are you sure they found it near Fallujah?" he asked, laughing. "It shows you how much the Iraqi resistance has insulted the Americans."

It was not clear who built the bunkers. The entrance to the underground system was discovered by a patrol of Marines and Iraqi army soldiers who were searching a house in the desert when they found a passageway beneath an electric freezer. A rock quarry is adjacent to the site, and the space could be an abandoned mine facility. Former dictator Saddam Hussein also kept underground bunkers throughout the country.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/11816589.htm

[leftchick]

46. add to the fact they "happened upon it"

It didn't come from any intelligence gleaned from toturing Iraqis. The officers on the ground have to know they have lost this quagmire. I don't know how they look their soldiers in their faces every day without wanting to cry.

:(

[louis-t]

42. I have another question

60% of Baghdad has no power or running water most of the time, yet this 'bunker' has an air conditioner and showers?

[Octafish]

44. It's called "Iraq." They live there.

We -- as in the United States of America -- are uninvited conquerors.

Nice legacy.

Thanks a lot, Herr Bushler.

[sintax]

47. US Troops Uncover Bunker Network in Iraq

US troops uncover bunker network in Iraq

Rory Carroll in Baghdad
Monday June 6, 2005
The Guardian

American troops have found a vast network of bunkers beneath the Iraqi desert which insurgents used as a base, complete with kitchen and air conditioning, the US military said at the weekend.

The largest complex, measuring 166 by 269 metres, (546ft by 883ft) was carved from an old rock quarry near Karma, in the restive province of Anbar, west of Baghdad.

It included a well-stocked larder, four furnished living spaces and rooms full of machine guns, mortars, rockets, black uniforms, masks, compasses, night-vision goggles and satellite telephones.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1499869,00.html

[SlavesandBulldozers]

48. wuhoo mission accomplished we can bring them home now!!!!

alright!!!

[pretzel4gore]

49. no, that's ali baba's 40 thieves caves!

hollywood is cooking up the video as we speak....