Two U.S. Soldiers Detained in Colombia

[wicket]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050504/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_us_soldiers

Colombian police have detained two U.S. Army soldiers near a huge military base southwest of the capital in an alleged arms smuggling plot, Colombian and U.S. officials said Wednesday.

The soldiers, whose identities or ranks were not disclosed, were arrested during a raid Tuesday on a house in Carmen de Apicala, located southwest of the capital and near Colombia's sprawling Tolemaida air base, where U.S. soldiers have been stationed.

The American soldiers were arrested at the house where a large weapons cache was discovered, National Police chief Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro said. There were no details on the type and quantity of arms found.

A U.S. Embassy spokesman confirmed the arrests and said the embassy "is working to ascertain the facts surrounding the case." He refused to provide details.

[CottonBear]

1. Colombia arrests two US soldiers

Colombia arrests two US soldiers

The US says its military is helping Colombia combat drug smuggling
Colombia has arrested two US soldiers on suspicion of trafficking weapons to right-wing paramilitary groups.
Paramilitaries are accused of drug trafficking and mass killings during Colombia's 40-year civil conflict.

Officials said the US soldiers were arrested on Tuesday along with several Colombians in an operation south-west of the capital, Bogota.

<snip>

The US embassy in Bogota said it was trying to establish exactly what had happened in the latest incident.

One unconfirmed report said more than 30,000 missiles had been seized in Tuesday's raid.

more...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4514875.stm

Note: I wonder which "right-wing paramilitary groups" they were assisting by trying to sell 30,000 missles to them? Someone in Venezuela or Peru perhaps?

[meganmonkey]

2. Whaaa?

:wow:

[Frederik]

4. 30,000 missiles!!??

Holy moly!

[Roland99]

16. I bet missiles is a mistranslation or misunderstanding

From the Yahoo article:

The cache was composed of 32,000 rounds of ammunition

[Frederik]

3. War on drugs

(aka traffic in weapons and drugs)

[saigon68]

23. We have seen this before

[DrDebug]

5. But the US wasn't involved in weapons and drugs smuggling

That CIA / Skull & Bones conspiracy stuff was liberal conspiracy internet kook stuff...

[Career Prole]

6. Colombia...Colombia...is there a bushie in Colombia? Ah yes...

Dougie Feith!


U.S. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith arrives to the defense ministry in Bogota, Colombia, May 3, 2005. Feith is visiting Colombia for two days. (AP Photo/Fernando Vergara)


Here comes that Iran/Contra feelin' again...

[Julius Civitatus]

11. Yes, the "dumbest f***ing guy on the face of the earth"

according to those who worsked with him.

[mitchtv]

7. Investigate Clinton

that Clenis , too

[Eloriel]

8. What I wanna know is

(without reaading the article yet, just from the headline): were these official U.S. or unofficial U.S. arms smugglers working on their own individual behalf?

LOL. Is this a great country or what?

Thinking further, in all probability, if they were official they'd be CIA and not troops. I'll go read the article now and see if it has further info or at least clues.

Edited to add, after reading the article:

The only clue I found (other than the U.S. embassy's refusal to release any details), tho not definitive: Colombian lawmakers called for their extradition to face trial in Colombia, but U.S. Ambassador William Wood ruled out such a move, citing diplomatic immunity.

:shrug: Who knows?

[DrDebug]

13. Do you have 30,000 missiles?

If it was just a personal venture to make some money then please explain where those 30,000 missile came from. Because if you can get them from the free market then we have a slight security problem...

[bvar22]

9. Colombia is the third biggest recipient of US military aid.

Do you find this as inexplicable as I do?


What strategic position necessary for the defense of the USA does Colombia hold?

Is this really about preventing cocaine from entering the USA?

Is Colombia more strategic than South Korea?
Taiwan??
India??
Sri Lanka??
The ENTIRE CONTINENT OF AFRICA?
(whoops, Egypt is #2 after Israel#!)

The money being poured into Colombia is used to prop up the US Friendly Right Wing government that has almost NO SUPPORT among the general population in Colombia. If left alone, Colombians would quickly elect a populist government (like Chavez in Venezuela) that would begin diverting a portion of Corporate Profits into HealthCare, Education, and Land Reform. The US Government is spending YOUR tax money to protect PRIVATE CORPORATE PROFITS and Land Interests (and black market drig profits) in Colombia.


I DO wonder for whom the 3000 missles were intended, and if they were shoulder fired heat seeking missles?
Chavez?

[Julius Civitatus]

10. Quick, somebody call Oliver North...

Do I feel like we are regressing back in time to the worst of the 80s?

[Roland99]

12. Hey! What's that country RIGHT NEXT to Colombia? Venezuela??

Hmmm

[Mugweed]

14. BINGO!

Looks like the covert destabilization of Venezuela has a little bump in the road. Ooops.

Hugo better shore up that border quickly. The US is a comin' for the oil.

[psychopomp]

15. Kicked, nominated

Holy moly...that is all I can say right now.

[Tempest]

17. Yesterday it was two Border Patrol agents arrested in Mexico

They had all kinds of ammunition on them, which is illegal in Mexico.

Makes you wonder if this is a concerted effort.

[Frederik]

19. hmmm...

[POAS]

18. I smell a rata..............n/t

[Judi Lynn]

20. Guardian story, released later...

U.S. Soldiers Detained in Colombia Plot

Thursday May 5, 2005 2:16 AM

By KIM HOUSEGO

Associated Press Writer
CARMEN DE APICALA, Colombia (AP) -

......National Police chief Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro said officers stopped a suspicious man in the area, who offered a bribe to be allowed to go free. Under threat of arrest, the man led the officers to a nearby house where more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, machine guns and pistols were found, officials said.
(snip)

It marks the latest U.S. embarrassment in this South American nation. On March 29, five U.S. soldiers were arrested after 35 pounds of cocaine was found aboard a U.S. military plane that flew to El Paso, Texas, from the Apiay air base east of Bogota.

In the ammunitions case, a police registry identified the U.S. servicemen only as Allam Norman Tanquary and Jesus Hernandez. It was unclear whether Allam was a misspelling. U.S. authorities did not provide names.

The Colombian attorney general's office said the arrested American soldiers had been in contact with a former Colombian police sergeant, Will Gabriel Aguilar, who has been linked to paramilitary groups. Aguilar, another retired policeman and two other Colombians were also arrested, the police official said.

The cache was composed of more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition sent to Colombia by the United States under its Plan Colombia aid program, aimed at crushing a leftist insurgency and the drug trafficking that fuels it, officials said.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4983382,00.html

[Judi Lynn]

21. American troops accused of arms theft in Colombia

American troops accused of arms theft in Colombia

Suzanne Goldenberg and agencies in Bogotá
Thursday May 5, 2005
The Guardian

.....Colombian authorities told reporters that the ammunition had been sent to the country as part of an American aid programme. In the last five years, Washington has provided $3bn (£1.6bn) in aid to Colombia to crush a leftwing insurgency as well as the narcotics trade that funds it.

However, in this instance the ammunition never arrived at its destination. Instead, the two soldiers are accused of stealing the rounds before they could reach the Colombian army and stockpiling them in the house for sale to the rightwing United Self Defence Forces of Colombia, which Washington has branded a terrorist organisation.

The US embassy in Bogotá confirmed the arrests, although it would provide no further information on the two soldiers. However, according to local television stations, the two men were marksmanship instructors at Colombia's main airbase.

Their arrest is bound to deepen distrust of the American presence in Colombia. Under an act of the US Congress, some 800 US troops are allowed on the ground to train the Colombian armed forces, and to support the anti-drug efforts. An additional 600 government contractors are also in the region. However, resentment against the US presence in Colombia has been stoked by the arrest last March of five US soldiers for cocaine smuggling.

One has since been released; the other four are in America, and the US ambassador to Bogotá, William Wood, has refused to consider their extradition to stand trial, citing a 30-year-old treaty which provides US troops with diplomatic immunity.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1476862,00.html#article_continue

[Judi Lynn]

22. SOLDIERS HELD IN COLOMBIA

SOLDIERS HELD IN COLOMBIA

Two American soldiers have been detained in Colombia for allegedly plotting to smuggle arms to right-wing paramilitaries.
(snip)

A large cache of ammunition, including 31,000 projectiles, was found in the house, officials said.

It is claimed the men were in contact with illegal paramilitary groups.

One of the men is reported to be a lieutenant colonel, named by Colombian television channel RCN as Lieutenant Colonel Alan Norman. The broadcaster has named the second suspect as Sergeant Jose Hernandez.
(snip)

The US has about 800 soldiers and 600 private contractors in Colombia helping the government as military advisors in the battle against leftist insurgents and drug traffickers.
(snip/...)

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13342399,00.html

[bemildred]

24. Whoa, a Lt. Col. Not a mere peon. How will they cover his ass? nt

[Roland99]

25. Hmm...anything new on this?

BTW, is it this Lt. Col. Alan Norman?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PAK/is_2_56/ai_n6137193

[bemildred]

26. The troops were handed over to the US embassy.

The Colombian senate is apparently considering modifying the
immunity agreement, so this could have consequences.

I dunno if that's the Alan Norman or not. Seems like a common
name, sort of.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0505-01.htm

[Judi Lynn]

27. That article might lead you to believe he's working with a shadow group

as it shows him as a reservist flying expensive equipment on a daily basis, yet he's also a civilian. Izzatso? Hmmmmm.

[bemildred]

28. That was funny, and he's in Colombia, where there are no Raptors to fly.

As a reservist, he could have a civilian life too, but WTF is
he doing in Colombia with all that ammo? Eh? Did he have permission?

[Frederik]

41. Hmmm...

An air force reservist test pilot. Sounds like just the kind of person the CIA would hire to fly weapons to South America. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is the man.

[Judi Lynn]

29. More creative reporting. (God, it's getting obvious with these clowns)

Colombians Hand Over U.S. Soldiers

May 5, 2005 7:08PM

Two American soldiers accused of arms trafficking emerged from a Colombian jail Thursday and were handed over to U.S. officials, but a top Colombian official tried to delay their deportation, saying a treaty granting them immunity might be invalid.
(snip)

The case is being closely watched by Colombians frustrated by accusations of lawbreaking against American soldiers. Their mission, backed by more than US$3 billion (2.3 billion euros) in aid, is to combat drug trafficking and guerrillas. Hundreds of Colombians accused of drug trafficking have been extradited to the United States to face trial as part of President Alvaro Uribe's get-tough measures.

Colombians were aghast in March when they learned that five U.S. soldiers were accused of smuggling cocaine to the United States, and were flown to their homeland and detained there. No details of that case have been publicly disclosed. Many Colombians say the two newly accused soldiers should be tried here.

"I hope they won't be taken out of the country, like the other Americans captured with the cocaine," said Ruben Arias, as he headed to his job as a cashier at an Ibague supermarket. "Who knows whether they will ever face justice."

"The gringos should be charged here in Colombia," spat, Jose Luis Villalobos a 67-year-old retired engineer, as he walked his dog.
(snip/...)http://www.newsfactor.com/worldview/story.xhtml?story_id=0110018RB28Q

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So if you're hacked at the criminal activities of certain U.S. soldiers involved in smuggling in your country, it's said you SPAT, whereas you simply would have "said" or "stated" your disapproval.

Someone tell these propaganda slingers it's unprofessional to try to mold public perception. Just the facts, Jack. We'll make up our own minds.

Culturism. Classism. Racism.

[Judi Lynn]

30. NY Times article

Colombia Yields 2 Accused Soldiers to U.S.

By JUAN FORERO
Published: May 6, 2005
BOGOTÁ, Colombia, May 5 - Two American soldiers arrested by the Colombian police for arms smuggling were handed over to the United States Embassy on Thursday, angering Colombian authorities and ordinary Colombians who believe that the two should face charges here.

Under treaty obligations, Allan Tanquary and Jesus Hernandez, Army Special Forces marksmen who had been stationed in Colombia as part of the American effort to fight drugs and Marxist rebels, will be investigated by American officials and, if charged, face trial in the United States. The two men, along with four Colombians, were arrested Tuesday in a luxury gated community in Melgar, where the police found 32,000 rounds of ammunition that they contend was bound for right-wing paramilitary groups.

The case has deeply embarrassed the United States, which on Thursday denied that the Bush administration was secretly helping Colombia's brutal paramilitary organization, the United Self-Defense Forces, in its fight against Marxist rebels.
(snip)

"What this shows is that we are under the American thumb," said Andrés Baca, 63, an insurance salesman who was in the area where the men were arrested. "What works for them, works for them, and what they don't want to do, they don't do. Our judicial system is dominated by the United States."

Colombians are still seething that James C. Hiett, the former Army colonel who ran the American military mission here, was sentenced to just five months by a Brooklyn court in 2000 for failing to report that his wife had been smuggling heroin from Bogotá to New York in diplomatic pouches. His wife, Laurie Ann Hiett, received a five-year term, while their Colombian driver, Jorge Alonso Ayala, remains in a Colombian jail, serving an eight-year sentence.
(snip/...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/06/international/americas/06colombia.html
(Free registration is required)

[Roland99]

31. Where have we heard these words before?

"There is absolutely no U.S. policy and U.S. support or U.S. inclination or U.S. military operations involved in arming paramilitaries," Richard A. Boucher, a State Department spokesman, said in Washington. "We have declared these groups to be terrorist groups."

We have many of the same players back in the game who were doing this crap back in the 80s. And we're supposed to just believe they are all reformed and they're all good little boys now?

HA!

[bemildred]

32. "Special forces marksmen".

That's more what I would have expected. I guess we can forget
about the air nat'l guard guy.

[Barrett808]

33. U.S. troops accused of arming Colombian death squads

U.S. troops accused of arming Colombian death squads
Two soldiers arrested in raid
Colombians may not be able to prosecute pair under treaty
ASSOCIATED PRESS

CARMEN DE APICALA, Colombia — Colombian police arrested two U.S. soldiers for alleged involvement in a plot to traffic thousands of rounds of ammunition - possibly to outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups, authorities said today.

The two soldiers were detained during a raid Tuesday in a gated community in Carmen de Apicala, 80 kilometres southwest of the capital and near Colombia's sprawling Tolemaida airbase, where the detained soldiers worked and where many U.S. servicemen are stationed.

National police Chief Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro said officers stopped a suspicious man in the area, who offered a bribe to be allowed to go free. Under threat of arrest, the man led the officers to a nearby house where more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition for assault rifles, machine-guns and pistols were found, officials said.

Shortly afterward, the two U.S. army soldiers - apparently unaware of the police operation - tried to go to the house. Castro said three Colombians were also involved.

"In the course of the investigation, two Americans arrived, they did not give a satisfactory explanation and were put at the disposal of the Prosecutors' Office," Castro said.

(more)

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1115243418773&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037&t=TS_Home&DPL=JvsODSH7Aw0u%2bwoRO%2bYKDSblFxAk%2bwoVO%2bYODSbhFxAg%2bwkRO%2bUPDSXiFxMh%2bwkZO%2bUCDSTmFxIk%2bw8RO%2bMKDSPkFxUj%2bw8UO%2bMNDSPgFxUv%2bw8YO%2bILDSLkFxQh1w%3d%3d&tacodalogin=yes

[0007]

34. I'm absolutely shocked!!

Perhaps John Negroponte could tell us more, 'eh?

[MountainLaurel]

35. Does this come as a surprise to anyone?

:shrug:

[radwriter0555]

36. Arming the columbians to invade the venezuelans? Otto Reich?

Naw, he'd NEVER!

[redqueen]

38. heh... and Rummy is claming to wonder why Chavez wants those guns

Hey Rummy, NOW YOU KNOW, YOU LYING SACK OF EXCREMENT!

[AlCzervik]

37. death squads for everyone! Am i living in the 80's?

[Judi Lynn]

39. It's about time someone called the "paramilitary" units what they are

Most American citizens are the only ones who are completely unaware, or unconcerned about it.

Just seeing this headline is almost a miracle, even though the AP writer no doubt has wildly understated the size of the cache.

[KansDem]

40. Why does the name "Eugene Hasenfuss" keep popping into my mind?

JUAN GONZALEZ: Bob, talk to us a little bit about what particularly was his role in the Iran-Contra scandal, and what he plead guilty to.

ROBERT PARRY: Well, Juan, he was in the job running the State Department's coverage of Central America at the time when Ollie North, who was then over at the National Security Council, was running the secret war against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, support for the so-called Contra Movement that had been banned by Congress. There was something called the Bolen Amendment which prohibited this support going to the Contras. They were seen also as serious human rights violators. North continued that anyway, secretly. Elliot was privy to those secrets. After the Hasenfuss plane, the plane that was shot down in Nicaragua, and one survivor was Eugene Hasenfuss, and he began talking in October of 1986 about his involvement with this operation and the support from the White House. When Congress asked Elliot Abrams about these allegations, Abrams gave very deceptive testimony. He tried to be very narrowly accurate but was highly misleading and tried to create the impression that the White House was unaware of any such operation being run by Oliver North. So, that became the basis eventually after the Iran-Contra scandal broke wide open for bringing charges against Abrams. He eventually plead guilty to a lesser charge of withholding information from Congress.

AMY GOODMAN: So, it would not be fair to say he was convicted of perjury?

ROBERT PARRY: I think that would be a little strong. I think he certainly – that’s what he was doing. He was providing false testimony, but he did plead guilty to a lesser charge.

AMY GOODMAN: What happened to that charge?

ROBERT PARRY: He was one of the six Iran-Contra defendants who was given a pardon by President George H.W. Bush on Christmas Eve 1992. This is after the election as Bush was heading out of office. He pardoned Abrams and five others, in part to protect himself. People do not realize this, I think, but the Iran-Contra investigation had begun to turn onto President Bush. He was being investigated at that point by Lawrence Walsh, the Special Prosecutor, for himself withholding evidence on the Iran-Contra scandal. So, when Bush gave those six pardons, he effectively was preventing himself from being caught up in the scandal that was still going on.

(more)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/04/1537247

Ahh, yes. I remember now...

[me b zola]

42. Never ending scandals & illegal behavior from *'s WH

From the Yahoo article:

Jairo Clopatofsky, a member of the Colombian Senate's foreign relations committee, said he believes the arrested soldiers are part of a broader arms and drugs smuggling ring that may include important U.S. officials.
-----


High ranking U.S. officials, eh? What are the odds that these two soldiers will ever make it back to the US safely?

[Zorra]

43. South and Central American nations may start building up their

militaries in response to this out of fear for their sovereignity.

If our idiot asswipe republican fascist government is not careful these countries may ally and get half the world to declare war on the US to stop our direct and/or covert military and political aggression.

So, should we expect some of that primo Negroponte-CIA Colombian flake to flood our streets soon, like it did in the 1980's, when CIA sponsored cocaine abuse first became an epidemic in the US?

We can call it "Contra-crack".

[Judi Lynn]

44. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette speaks out on "Plan Colombia"

Editorial: Junk this plan / The U.S. drug war in Colombia isn't working
Monday, May 02, 2005

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

U.S. policy toward Colombia, America's third-largest aid beneficiary, has turned into a sinkhole of money and military resources over the past five years.
(snip)

.....It is worth asking why. One reason might be that the 800 U.S. troops and contractors now in Colombia, doubled last year, are training and supporting Colombian military forces. Those forces are, in addition to carrying out the defoliation program, also guarding an oil pipeline owned by Occidental Petroleum, near and dear to Bush administration oil industry associates.

Another reason might be that the principal defoliant in use in Colombia, glyphosate, sold commercially as Roundup, is provided under a profitable contract by Monsanto. That company gave $3 million in contributions to Republicans in 2004, 75 percent of the company's overall campaign financing.

A third reason might be a desire on the part of the Bush administration to support Colombia's president Alvaro Uribe, a conservative swimming against a growing tide of left-leaning presidents elected in Latin America. Mr. Uribe is seeking to amend the Colombian constitution to permit himself a second term in office.

There is also talk in Latin America that the Bush administration wishes to retain its military relationship with Colombia in order to provide a base for a possible invasion of neighboring Venezuela. That country's president, Hugo Chavez, is the administration's current favorite enemy in Latin America, second only to Fidel Castro of Cuba.
(snip/...)

www.post-gazette.com/pg/05122/497563.stm

[drduffy]

45. jawol

that's the plan. What until the neocons get their space-based weapons in place. Then they can zap Venezuela from afar.