U.S. hybrid sales rose 81 percent last year

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7622450/

The lure of the Toyota Prius and other hybrid cars helped drive healthy sales of electric and alternative-powered vehicles last year, according to new data that shows the hybrid market has grown by 960 percent since 2000.

New hybrid vehicle registrations totaled 83,153 in 2004, an 81 percent increase over the year before, according to data released Monday by R.L. Polk & Co., a Southfield-based firm that collects and interprets automotive data.

Even though hybrids still represent less than 1 percent of the 17 million new vehicles sold in 2004, major automakers are planning to introduce about a dozen new hybrids during the next three years.

Lonnie Miller, director of analytical solutions for Polk, said federal and state tax credits for fuel-efficient vehicles have helped spur hybrid sales. More people also are buying into the idea that driving a hybrid is socially responsible.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Misunderestimator]

2. Oh hey... I just welcomed you in another thread...

What's with all the negativity?

[KittyWampus]

3. Thermal Depolymerization To The Rescue. Or Perhaps Some Other

process such as using bacterium to eat chemicals...

[KittyWampus]

6. Oh, And The Casing Should Be Recyclable.

[w4rma]

4. Those batteries are warranted for 8 to 10 years/100K - 150K miles.

Considering that the Prius has only been around since 1999 I doubt there is this major battery disposal problem. Besides, we do just fine with all the regular batteries, I don't think these more technologically adept batteries will pose any more of a problem.

[GliderGuider]

5. Batteries are my big concern with hybrids too.

That's why I just went diesel. I traded in a big V8 sedan on a 2001 VW Jetta TDI. I'm running it on biodiesel, which is either partly or completely made from vegetable oil (which is renewable, has a low net carbon load, and is much cleaner). Given the strength of diesel engines where getting 400,000 to 500,000 km is no big trick, this looks to me like a better and greener mobility solution than hybrids. Add to that the fact that the technology is mature today, unlike hybrids, and for me the choice is clear.

[zalinda]

7. I've heard that diesels

perform poorly in cold climates. That would stop a lot of us being able to use them.

zalinda

[termo]

13. no problem at -20 celcius (= -4 F ?)

with my diesel engine, more than 50 mpg, working fine.

[Paulie]

12. Hybrids are quite mature

Toyota is on it's 3rd generation system.

And your biodiesel Jetta is quite a bit more dirty than my Prius on gas/10% ethanol. Especially in NOx, since you don't have a catalytic converter. In the city translates to smog. And granted, you do have 50% less CO emissions, and 75% CO2 than regular diesel, if you're running nothing but B100. Maybe when diesel catalytic converters are mature... :)

My Prius sitting at a stop light next to your car will put out ZERO anything (the engine is off). And I'll put out close to ZERO in stop/go traffic when I'm on battery.

And finally, my Prius is a BIGGER car than your Jetta. And I'm averaging 56mpg. :)

[GliderGuider]

15. Different choices for different people

The important thing is we are thinking about the problem (having recognized that there is a problem to begin with), and are doing something to address it.

Diesels are a vastly more mature technology than hybrids, which doesn't mean that hybrid is inherently worse - as you point out hybrids have some nice advantages. I mainly like the fact that diesels can run efficiently on something other than petro fuel. That to me makes it a more long-term solution than anything that relies on refined gasoline. Is anyone working on diesel-electric hybrids, I wonder?

One other question - is anyone aware of an analysis of the pollution-related manufacturing costs of the hybrid's batteries? While the hybrid may be cleaner in operation than any current diesel, you have to factor in both ends of the life cycle - manufacture and disposal. Disposal can be dealt with through recycling, but initial manufacture from raw materials is an issue that gets ignored in most analyses. It's like the electricity for those zero-emission electric cars - it has to be made somewhere, but people tend not to talk about that inconvenient fact.

On edit - spelling.

[Blue Belle]

17. On Hybrid.com....

They report that Dodge is working on a Ram Diesel Hybrid.

http://www.hybrid.com/modules.php?name=Dodge_Hybrid_Cars

Hybrid.com also has some very good information on other Hybrid models that will be available soon.

[Paulie]

21. Here's an article I found on Hybrid's and NiMH batteries

http://www.carlist.com/autonews/2005/autonews_94.html

Also, keep in mind that the battery "pack" in a Prius is made up of 24 modules. so if you have a single battery module die, you either live without it or replace the bad module.

Regarding durability, another item about the Prius is that the motor is electrically spun up to around 1000rpm before spark is applied to the motor (the motor generator 1 (of two) IS the starter) This lets the oil pressure get up before actually having combustion hit. This is a much much more gentler process than a cold start. Couple in regerative braking, there really is less wear/tear than a regular car. See here for info on using a Prius as a Taxi, over 300k/km: http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Toyota_Prius.htm#hybridtaxi

To get the engine up to operating temperature, the Prius has a thermos type bottle that stores hot coolant, that is injected into the cooling system on cold start.

It really is cool technology, with few compromises. Check out http://john1701a.com for more information on the technology.

[Massacure]

24. Biodiesel would need a 200 x 400 mile algae pond to replace all the petrol

That isn't a pretty site. You really are going to need to hybridize cars, and start using carbon fibers if you want to reduce the dependancy on foreign energy supplies.

[Drifter]

8. And what are you doing ...

to do your part.

Cheers
Drifter

[earthside]

9. Jeez...You're Right!

I guess I'll just go sell my Prius to some Republican and go buy a Hummer. What the hell, there's plenty of oil and coal and uranium to get us through the global warming crisis.

Or, I guess I could just go live in a cave and eat forest mushrooms so that I'll have minimal impact on the enviroment ... that's what you're doing, right? No, you're sending out messages on a computer that has all kind of toxic components inside of it ... but that's probably okay because YOU'RE doing it.

Sorry, pal. Hybrids could be a wonderful transitional technology for automobiles. Since there isn't an energy alternative that works for transportation (besides bicycles), we're on the way down to a smaller, agrarian, decentralized community civilization. But in the mean time, hybrids could help mitigate the pace of decline.

The sad thing actually is that Bush, the UAW, and the American car corporations are fighting even the small step in the right direction that hybrids represent. That is what you ought to be gripping about ...

[Paulie]

10. Toyota uses nickel metal hydride batteries

They are relatively environmentally friendly, and profitable to recycle. And the single lead acid battery in the Prius (used to energize the hybrid system and open the relays from the high voltage system) is half the size of an average battery.

[Chico Man]

14. I'm sure we'll just send them all to China for "recycling"

Like we do with our PCs..



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1839997.stm

[NickB79]

18. What have we been doing with lead-acid batteries for the past 70 yrs?

How many BILLIONS of those things have been produced? If we can deal with those numbers of environmentally harmful batteries, we can recycle and deal with the relatively small amount of more environmentally beneign hybrid batteries coming out from Japan. Besides, next-generation batteries are being developed that last much longer than 150,000 miles, are lighter and are made of even more environmentally friendly materials.

[jpak]

19. And the batteries in the 200+ million US cars on the road today

are not a "problem".

Lead acid batteries have one the highest recycling rates of any commodity.

Hybrid (NiH) batteries will be recycled as well - they will not "end up in the landfill".

[wallwriter]

11. What will the repugs say?

They scoffed at hybrids when the Prius first came out. But more sales means more profits. How do they argue with that?

[realFedUp]

16. free market driven economy....

of course it stands to follow that
all American car makers would be churning out
hybrid cars by the thousands, but no....
they are holding out for hydrogen made
and in the meantime are still producing
bigger lugs that qualify for a rebate.

Makes you wonder about American ingenuity...

[Az_lefty]

20. A lady I work with just bought a Prius last weekend

she loves it. Apparently it has an on-board computer that tells you what mileage your getting by the minute. So far, 46mpg mostly running around town.

[confludemocrat]

23. 55 MPG here w/ our Prius last weekend (with warmer weather)

Thats at 50 degrees without a head wind (this car is pretty light). But even in NE Montana as severely windy as it is here, we typically get in the mid-40s as MPG and thats even with the colder temps we get here, which reduces MPG.

It's interesting now to see the many large heavy pickups (of which we have one also) driving around on short trips, knowing that they are probably getting about 8-10 MPG, and how with gas here in this oil producing area being near 2.50 per gallon, its gotta be hurting.

[spanone]

25. 52 MPG with my Honda Civic Hybrid. Had it for 3 years. Great Car.

[Bigmack]

27. 54.5 mpg here...

with our new Prius.

I tried driving it like I would a regular car.... faster starts at traffic lights, "lead footing" a little... and still got 50 mpg.

I know it's not THE answer, but at least I'm trying.

[cyberpj]

26. We bought our Prius in 2001 and, back then, got a big tax credit ....

for being environmentally conscious.

Now they're talking about taxing hybrids because they don't use as much gas but they still use the same amount of roadway!

Of course, nothing mentioned about the fact that it's actually WEIGHT - the trucks and hummers and SUVs - that do more damage to the roadways. Nope. NO mention of them.

[Orsino]

28. 53.5 mpg last tank...

55.6 on current tank.

The computer has helped to teach me how to drive. Few cars ever hit their EPA ratings reliably (EPA's test is a highly artificial representation of driving), but I'm in the pocket thanks to my Prius' real-time feedback.

[foo_bar]

22. in other news, golden rice consumption rose 81 percent

[struggle4progress]

29. Hummer owners should be sent to Iraq to fight. eom