Germany's Ratzinger is new pope

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany was elected the 265th pontiff today by the College of Cardinals. He was announced as tens of thousands of people cheered in St. Peter's Square. Ratzinger has chosen the name Benedict XVI, the Vatican announced. The announcement came shortly after white smoke rose from the Vatican chimney and bells rang to announce that a new pope had been selected.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/19/pope.tuesday...

Will any US Catholics leave the church over this?

"the deep moral sickness" of europe was a fave topic for ratzy and jp2. we are in for one hell of a ride. keep your eye out for commentary on how SOON they arrived at this decision. it's about money and power -- the blood cult wing of the theocrats is now in power in catholicism as well as protestantism. this is frightening in the extreme, but not surprising. those of us who left in the 80s over jp2's siding with latin american dictators over their own preists, expected this.

the church has thrown down the gauntlet. their priority is absolute power. "holy war." same old song and dance -- i don't mean that to sound defeatist. i think we can at least take some time right now to examine the history of the catholic church in world war. how did they position? who went awol -- how to harness the change to build the people's power. reading list, anyone?

where does Opus Dei fit in with the new guy? If you're talking money and power, makes me think OD would be right there with them, co-ruling.

Expecting a liberal pope is like expecting a black King of England.

I'm glad I'm a protestant, and don't have to view the words of the pope as the words of God. It leaves me free to respect men like JPII, even though I disagree with some of his beliefs.

I was expecting Ratzinger to be the next pope. He's in a position in which makes for an easy transition.

Who's got images of Mel Brooks as Torqemada? Ratzinger ran whatever they call the Inquisition these days, so it's fitting to post those images now!

he did neither.

power. This is documented and noone disputes this.

And you can tell, just by taking a good look at what he's done while in the Catholic church with his authoritarian positions, that he *still* supports that pro-Nazi agenda.

with supporting Hitler, or the holocaust.

It was made compulsory to join in 1941, Ratzinger joined just after this when he was 14.

Being in the Hitler Youth was compulsory in Germany at that time. He was also in the military but deserted in 1944. Criticise for what he's done since if you want- that would be fair, but to drag that up is just irrelevant.

A reactionary institution that finds itself in extremis, hemorrhaging money in payments to settle lawsuits? That has been held up to the entire planet as a model of scandalousness in its indulgence of pedophilia?

With its back to the wall, Catholicism did what any threatened beast would do: it turned to snarl.

As one who has been reading about Ratzo for years, I also predicted that he would be just the type to claw his way to the top.

Understandable, yes. Predictable, yes. Disgusting? Oh, yes.

Yes indeed, here we are again.

He is havin g a fit! I was like, I told you so! My mom hasn't been to church in years because of how conservative the Church has gotten... she's looking into the Unitarian Church. Yay!

They consider themselves Catholic, Just not Roman Catholic.

I've been to Episcopal masses that were way "higher" than any RC mass I've ever been to!

Why won't your father like Ratzinger since he's conservative?

Had I had access to them when my faith was faltering, I might still have it. No going back though.

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/4136/

Had I had access to them when my faith was faltering, I might still have it. No going back though.

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/4136/

it on a former Hitler Youth, who is now supposedly "Infallible." He should get a huge signing bonus. Who is the best player left on the board for us?

This is BS. Maybe we'll get lucky he will "die in his sleep" like our 33 day "Progressive Pope" John Paul 1st, did.


Yes, I'm an Ex-Catholic, and now I plan on staying that way.

thinks of herself as a "Catholic on permanent vacation".

We resigned from the Catholic Church this winter after all the pro-Bush political crapola the Vatican spewed during our 2004 Presidential elections, their vocal pro-Bush, anti-gay-American-marriage crapola, the American bishop (s?) who refused John Kerry communion for his support of the law of Roe v. Wade, the San Diego bishop's refusal to give a gay nightclub owner a Catholic burial, and the Tom Delayish crapola the Vatican publicly spewed about the Terri Schiavo fiasco. The Vatican has become an arm of the neo-con/fundie movement in Amerika because it too has always been obsessed with power, and they see that right now that's where the power is.

We're Da Vinci Code enthusiasts now. Non-affiliated, non-denominational spiritual deists, perhaps. We don't need no f'in churches to find our way through this life and into the next.

I left for the very same reasons. I feel so liberated now.

Like free spirits floating through the air on a clear day, with a new and unclouded perspective.

Hate to burst your bubble.
Duckie

for years. Ever since I stopped believing in a punishing God, and began believing in a kinder, forgiving God. The church has struck me for years as being more a business than a church, and a big business at that.

I don't need to belong to any organized religion to think of myself as Christian.

Maybe there ought to be a twelve step program.

breaking any land speed records hurrying back to regular Mass on Sundays."

Sigh...

I knew better than to hope for any real change, but shit -

Oh well...

Okay, ladies, let's all of us just move to the back of the bus like nice little submissive Stepforders.

I guess I can take comfort that at least the guy from Vienna, supposedly on the PNAC wish list, wasn't selected.

Looks like I'm with you, Up2Late. I'm not precisely an Ex-Catholic, but I'm as close as you can get without actually severing ties. It's a glum day for Catholicism. And they WILL indeed see more American Catholics falling away. They WILL indeed see their donation money continuing to dry up. When I'm not at Mass, I'm not putting anything into the collection plate. And it isn't just me. It was a CNN report I saw a few days ago that indicated the largest share of donations to the Catholic Church comes from America. And America's where they CANNOT afford to see more Catholics alienated. But that's what WILL happen. Mike Barnicle will look back on the recent past and wish for the days when his church was lucky enough to be one-third full.

by sending a letter describing our disgust with this choice.

They don't care, but the numbers should be presented, so those who do care will see the impact.

I urge all Catholics, former and not, who are uncomfortable with the Vatican's choice to do this.

...soon ...unless he lives to be 90

In the mean time, he could issue some nasty encylicals under the guise of papal infalibility. Perhaps that would be the needed death blow to an institutional heirarchy that valuesdomination over liberation. This could be their downfall.

Catholic women will be waiting that much longer for a break on birth control. It's going to take a moderate pope to give on that point, and Ratzinger is about as moderate as the Shrub.

...Ratzinger is on record as saying that Humanae Vitae, the anti-contraception encyclical, was an exercise in Papal Infallibility, even though the Pope who issued it denied it that status. As a mere single cardinal among many, his opinion could be dismissed...but now, he can (and I believe will) raise it to infallible status with the stroke of a pen.

That means that it doesn't matter how moderate or even liberal a future pontiff may be -- no one on earth can change an infallible proclamation, as it is seen to have come directly from God.

That means that a thousand, or even a million, years from now (should humankind and Roman Catholicism last that long) whoever was Pope would still be bound to obey the ruling that the use of artificial contraception is never to be permitted. There would be no way to get around it, ever.

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The next time I need definition help from you, I'll let you know. He's a motherfucking neo-conservative piece of shit. That will be all, Jesus. Dismissed.

Golly, it's just no fun at all to hear Jesus tell me how stupid I look for repeating something that's been said many hundreds of times in the press. But I'm just going to turn the other cheek. I'd never consider calling you an uninformed fuckwit who could be easily swatted down with 2 minutes of Googling. It wouldn't be very Christian of me. So instead, I just wanted to extend the offer for you to be magnanimous in admitting how wrong you are about this neo-conservative former Nazi piece of shit.

Here are a few citations for you. Lots more are available from your friendly local search engine.

Have a great Galilee day.

"This is the framework for the neoconservative party whose beacon is Ratzinger."
http://www.insidethevatican.com/newsflash-apr14-05-3.ht...

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"His neoconservative thrust has run into resistance within the Church. The reportedly harsh discussions at the conclave to select a new pope have been testimony to that, Vatican sources say."
http://www.ipsnews.org/new_nota.asp?idnews=28311

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"JOSEPH RATZINGER. A German, he was the pillar of doctrine during the pontificate of John Paul II, especially toward the very end. In spite of the fact that he is 78 years old, there would be nothing of the short-term papacy about his election: the scenario he has designated for the Church during the following decades is almost revolutionary, and has won him respect and agreement from beyond the neocon cardinals closest to him, but also strong resistance."
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/1383760/posts

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But Cardinal Ratzinger, chief of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is unpopular with large sections of the Church for his antimodernist positions and for methodically persecuting and silencing dissenters.

His neoconservative thrust has run into resistance within the Church. The reportedly harsh discussions at the conclave to select a new pope have been testimony to that, Vatican sources say.
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=28311

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And she thinks as much of you as I do. I hope I one day get the chance to tell you in very clear language just what I think of you and your hateful words.

Your reading comprehension seems to be on a par with your compassionate Catholocism.

The new pope is most certainly a neoconservative. You've done nothing to dissuade anyone of that notion, and you cannot. He's a vile man, and he's aided and abetted the "bad guys" his entire life, from Adolph Hitler to George W Bush. So go right ahead and defend this miserable, vile, hateful human being, with your miserable, vile, hateful obsequiousness.

Oh, and, why are you here? At this progressive website, I mean? Shouldn't you be out boiling heretics alive, or somesuch?

Self-edited, because some good moderator already took care of the issue.

More like a Neo-nazi. Or is that a paleonazi?

He already meddled in US politics when he sent the memo to US Cardinals stating that any politician who supports abortion should not receive communion.

He will probably be the toughest and least flexible pope ever.

I had actually been thinking that with kids now etc. that my husband and I might start going to Church and introducing the kids to the Church. Not now...no way am I going to have my daughters being indoctrinated with Pope Rightwinger's Dogma...

I can say that this selection turns me away from them now...I thought highly of John Paul II, even though I didn't agree on everything, but from all I understand, Ratzinger was a driving force in the influence of the former Pontiff's hard right on certain issues...guess you could say this guy Ratzinger makes JP II look liberal....

At least he won't be around for an entire generation.

Not just Catholics. Let's not be naive, this wasn't good.

At least, not any that we would consider "liberals" by our standards.

The Church is morally hard right and will always remain so. That's not going to change. They're also anti-war, anti-death penalty and economically very far left - that won't change either. One pope can't change these positions and I'm not sure five in a row could either.

But if you want more "liberal" Cardinals, this is actually better than John Paul II was because he won't be around long enough to appoint that many Cardinals.

...they are giving all their wealth to the poor.
(Not neo-cons but THEO-cons).

Even if you sre not catholic, the impact this will have on issues like aids in the 3rd World, the role of women, attitudes to gays, the rights of women etc can only be bad.

Another dark day for libruls.

I'm Jewish, so it doesn't really affect me personally, but I know how much this can affect world affairs and it's not a very good sign. Not that I would wish anyone dead (well, almost anyone), but he certainly won't be around as long as JPII, for whom I had a lot of respect.

die soon.



david

they'll keep Ratzy on life support for decades, he'll never want to give up the reins of power.

which is why I think his appointment more was a political statement by the church than a choice of a sound papal leader.

Writer.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00...

His word against that of his proponents

I don't know why people like to toy with right wing, almost fascist, side of life.

Although JP II was conservative in many ways, he was also very progressive on many human rights issues. This is very sad indeed.

I would not expect much functional difference between him and JPII, except that Ratzinger will probably be much more forceful in actually acting on things because he is in good health.

to be even more conservative than his predecessor. He started moving rightward with the very first moments of his Papacy.

He chose...

...arch-conservatives, who by the way made John Paul II look like Abbie Hoffman.

Differences aside, that was quite funny I referenced him myself recently. I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong.

I mean, we all know about the Piuses, don't we?

don't you all remember?

YES I REMEMBER THAT.

It was disgusting.

... with those 150 or so cardinals making the decision.

If you read the article, he only joined after it was made compulsory, his father worked against the Nazis (to the point that he had to move frequently) and as a 14-year-old kid, he had a peripheral role in the war.

I would prefer to beat him up on his right-wing doctrine and embrace of the word "fundamentalist" rather than a past that I can't say I could have avoided myself if I were 14 and living in a fascist state.

Wolf Blitzer just said his (Benedict's) father was a Nazi on CNN.

I wonder how many American planes his anti-aircraft gun shot down.

because he had an infected finger. Sounds like we've got another "everybody's responsible but me" type in power.

then again they brought Cardinal Law to the Vatican and gave him a cushy job and let him perform the mass. Talk about thumbing your nose to the people!

I thought the kids had a choice. Most older Germans have claim they had no choice, which gives them an "out". Why were a majority of Germans against his being Pope in all the polls conducted recently?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth

the Hitler Youth. 'Nuff said.

He just was illegally studying to be a priest.

i heard 14, and that he denies it. and if he doesn't own up to it, that does make it a lot worse.

were in those days

for his trying to hide the truth about it though. that irks me, the denial.

He hides behind the argument that he did not have a free will when he was 15, 16 and 17. I bet he could have had a choice if he wanted to. Others did.

But his extreme right wing ideology tells me that he was quite suitable to the Fascist machine of World War II. Not very easy to teach an old dog new tricks.

Are we beyond at least giving someone the benefit of the doubt? That's what Republicans do, not Democrats.

have to make him Pope! Also thumbed their nose against the sex abuse victims because it was Ratzinger who made it possible for Carinal Law to get the cushy job at he vatican, yet he speaks of the "filth" inside the church but does nothing!

I'm not convinced Ratzinger has, though. That's the difference.

If he was an ordinary citizen, then that would be fine. But, his behavior and actions as a Cardinal make him appear to have many of the traits that would have made him a very attractive candidate for the Nazi Party. With Pope John's blessings as his closest confidente, Ratzinger meddled in our US elections by sending out a memo to our cardinals that they should not give communion to any politician who supports abortion. Why do you think George Bush loved Pope John so much? I bet he will be crazy about this Pope who helped to elect him.

And he joined the KKK when it was NOT compulsory.

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"Saint Ratty"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth

I already sent an e-mail to my husband saying that I will be attending the episcopal church on Sunday. I am deeply disappointed with the selection of Joseph Ratzinger.

I have been.

the Episcopal church was pretty sweet when I attended as a youth. Episcopalians seem to be a level-headed lot.

but that's sort of the point -- there's a lot of room for all sorts of opinions. Most of the time, people manage to come together, accepting differences. I like that.

I'm not Catholic, but when I do go to church it's always been to catholic church's so I feel close to the church.

This is really sad.

I have been a Catholic all my life 60 plus years I would never leave my Church because of one person...

I will never leave my church because of the actions of man.

The Succession of leading the Church, from Jesus to Peter, etc.

"It is wrong to say that the Holy Spirit elects the pope because there have been popes the Holy Spirit would never elect."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-nws-greeley1...

But still, this appointment deeply saddens and concerns me. It is a shot across the bow to American Catholics, and suggests that in a time when the Church needs to be constructively addressing many issues and working on unity with the laity, it's going to be the conservative status quo.

I am hoping that the curia is seeing Ratizinger as a caretaker -- but we all know what happened the last time a caretaker was in the chair. We could be seeing the start of a major reversal of Vatican II here. I hope I'm not overstating my concerns, but this is one Catholic who is not overjoyed at the pontificate of Benedict XVI.

ran into the church with their arms wide open. Taught by the most wonderful, liberal Sister who took pride in not having to wear a habit. Whose last words to me, "never forget YOU ARE a product of Vatican II." My heart is broken, I see Vatican II null and void and me with it. <very disappointed crying Catholic>

with your leadership, you should leave. Why just sit there and take all their nonsense? There are pleny of nicer churches out there. And I got news for you--it doesn't matter which one of them you go to to get to heaven. The Catholic church is primitive and does not serve our modern lives.
http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291

How exactly do you know how 'nice' the person's particular church is?

Have you attended mass there? Are you taking a survey on the relative 'niceness' of various Catholic parishes, and how well they serve their parishioners?

And by being under that umbrella, the little churches have to follow what the big Church says.