Vatican Denounces Terri Schiavo's Death

[saigon68]

Vatican Denounces Terri Schiavo's Death

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=629962

Vatican Condemns Terri Schiavo's Death As Violation of Principles of Christianity, Civilization

By VICTOR L. SIMPSON Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press

ROME Mar 31, 2005 — The Vatican denounced the "arbitrarily hastened" death of Terri Schiavo on Thursday as a violation of principles of Christianity and civilization, and a cardinal described her end as a "death sentence executed through a cruel method."

"The circumstances of the death of Ms. Terri Schiavo have rightly disturbed consciences," Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said in the first statement from the Holy See on the case. "An existence was interrupted. A death was arbitrarily hastened because nourishing a person can never be considered employing exceptional means.


Cardinal Renato Martino, a top Vatican official, said Schiavo's death was a "human tragedy,when you deprive somebody of food and water, what else is it? Nothing else but murder," Martino said, adding that he was speaking on the case "according to the teaching of the pope." The pontiff has spoken on behalf of providing food and water, even through artificial means, to patients like Schiavo.

Pope John Paul II was informed of Schiavo's death, Martino said. The cardinal likened the pope's frail health, including resorting to a feeding tube, to Schiavo's case. The "comparison is easy," Martino said. "Everybody will do all the best to keep him alive, to feed him the way it can be done."

[candy]

1. And so it begins------------------!

[cthrumatrix]

27. same Vatican that Bush IGNORED about IRAQ........

[SaveElmer]

2. Despicable

They lost their moral authority when they started trying to hide pedophile priests. I have nothing but contempt for the catholic church...my apologies to cathiolics on this board (I used to be one as well)

[donco6]

42. Echoed.

Also a former Catholic. Disgusted by the shameless hypocrisy of them all - particularly the latest lambasting of Michael S - "heartless". Bullshit - the Schindler's were going to make a sideshow inside the hospice and Michael shut it down. Good for him.

[section321]

45. I think they lost it way before then...

of course, it depends on what you define as moral authority....

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Arbitrarily?

Who knew that 15 years was the equivalent of a whim?

[all.of.me]

17. yeah, arbitrarily hastened?!

how long has michael schiavo been fighting for this?! i don't think it was hastened at all!

[Liberal Veteran]

18. Arbitrarily DELAYED would be more accurate.

I just don't know what to say in the face of such reckless stupidity.

[all.of.me]

22. i say ma vafunculo!

[bluedog]

4. nnote to Vatican

worry about your own POPE and your Priests..........leave the common folk alone...........

[VegasWolf]

5. Slight difference, the pope has a cerebral cortex. Idiots! n/t

[gratuitous]

6. Finally! Someone with deep enough pockets volunteers to pay

Wait; the Vatican is NOT offering to pay for eternal care of these patients? I wonder if the Vatican will take responsibility for any whackos who use this pronouncement as justification for doing something whacko?

Or is it enough to just throw some gasoline on a fire and walk away?

[Zenlitened]

7. Does the Vatican really want to compare the pope...

... to a brain injury victim with no cerebral cortex?

Way to avoid the deeper questions. Shouting "Hey look! A feeding tube!" hardly makes the cases comparable.

[Karenina]

8. We are ALL truly down the rabbit hole.

This is the most RIDICULOUS declaration I've seen so far, although I'm prepared for another to "top" it... :shrug:

[Walt Starr]

9. This should tell everybody where the Church will be going with the

next Pope.

[chelaque liberal]

10. Yep, reinforces my decision to leave the Catholic Church 30 years ago.

And death with dignity was far from my mind at that time.

[neuvocat]

11. Humanity Denounces Child Molestations.

Quid pro quo.

[Sandpiper]

12. And the Catholic Church continues its slide into irrelevancy

In the lives of ordinary people.

[seemslikeadream]

13. Hey Vatican did ya hear?

ESTIMATED 21 MILLION DEATHS


Western Prosperity Based on the Destruction of Africa


Today, Africa is the most war-torn continent in the world. Over the past fifteen years, thirty-two of the fifty-three African countries experienced violent conflict. During the cold war years (1950-1989), the U.S. sent $1.5 billion in arms and training to Africa thus setting the stage for the current round of conflicts. From 1991-1995 the U.S. increased the amount of weapons and other military assistance to fifty of the total fifty-three African countries. Over the years these U.S. funded wars have been responsible for the deaths of millions of Africans, and the subsequent displacement, disease, and starvation of many millions more.

<snip>


Loans provided by the International Monetary Fund, World Bank and G8 have traditionally included strategies known as Structural Adjustment Programs (SAPs) which came in to effect in Africa in 1980. SAPs require that governments reduce public spending (especially on health, education and food/storage) in order to pay Western Banks. They must also increase exports of raw materials to the West, encourage foreign investment and privatize state enterprises. Instead of reducing the debt, since 1980 SAPs have increased African debt by 500 percent, creating a domino effect of disasters (prolonged famine, conflict, abject poverty, environmental exploitation) linked to an estimated 21 million deaths and, in the process, transferring hundreds of billion dollars to the West.

<snip>


Since the story was first published in October 2002, 1.5 million more people have died in the Congo War bringing the total up to a shocking four million since 1998. This is a war foisted on the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC — the richest country in Africa) by the U.S. through its proxies Rwanda and Uganda, who have occupied the country, stolen its abundant natural wealth, and sent it to the West. A peace agreement signed in September 2002 in which Rwanda and Uganda agreed to withdraw, is not working since Uganda has reoccupied parts of the eastern Congo and Rwanda keeps raiding the country. Recently, Rwandan troops burnt down thousands of homes in the eastern Congo. Uganda has armed two ethnic groups, the Hema and Lendu in Ituri province and encouraged them to fight resulting in 11,400 deaths so far; the two groups have laid siege to the provincial capital, Bunia, where bloody massacres continue. This shows the extent to which the U.S. will go to plunder Africa.




http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/10.html

[Democrats_win]

14. Surprised they could see around their own pile of sins.

[ztn]

15. oh well. They denounced the Iraqi invasion too...

and they denounce capital punishment, murder of anyone, abortion, premarital sex and all forms of dishonesty.

That's fine. They can have their positions. Some follow common law and common sense and some don't. And that's fine too. But that doesn't make it law. We got past that stage in the western world starting at the Enlightenment. It took the fall of all powerful and corrupt, self serving monrachs and many bloody wars and crusades over centuries before things changed. Our founders were some of the first (whether the right wants to admit it or not).

Well, at least they're consistent...unlike loony christian right.

[antigone382]

29. Yeah, how come we never see THOSE denunciations on the nightly news?

Well, except for the abortion and premarital sex ones--the ones that correspond w/ the RW agenda???

The pope denounces a reich-wing belief or activity: (crickets chirping)

The pope denounces a left-wing belief or activity: Headlines across the country screaminG "POPE DECLARES LIBERALS HELLBOUND SATANISTS! GET OUT YOUR STAKES AND MATCHES!"

[ztn]

39. well,

I doubt the pope really went that far. I don't find him to be political at all.

[antigone382]

47. Oh, I know that.

But you'd never know it, from the way it's reported.

[genius]

16. It was a low point for America: a violation of any sense of humanity

The Democratic Party is at its best when it works to preverve life - not when it mocks those who do and supports the torture and killing of a young woman. At least Jesse Jackson and Ralph Nader (of all people) provided some moral leadership for our party. I hope we get through that legislation that Jesse Jackson called for.

[gratuitous]

20. Who was torturing and killing a young woman?

Do you have some information that eluded all the doctors who treated Terri Schiavo, or some evidence that wasn't presented during the dozens of court hearings in this matter? Or are you referring to something else?

The Schiavo case was decided in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida and the United States. I would suggest that if you disagree with the law, you work to change it. But to characterize the disposition of Mrs. Schiavo's case as "torture and killing" indicates an unfamiliarity with the circumstances and the law.

[Zenlitened]

21. Torture and killing?

Who? When? Where?

:shrug:

[VegasWolf]

24. "torture and killing of a young woman" Jeebus! n/t

[Lindacooks]

35. Letting someone die the way they wanted to is hardly

'torture and killing'.

And where were these same 'moral' leaders when 100,000 Iraqis and almost 2,000 Americans have been killed in the last two years? Where are they for the 18,000 Americans who die every year for lack of health insurance??

[genius]

43. Do you have a written statement from the girl? There is none.

Her adultering, torturing husband says so. It will allow him and his slut to get together with their kids faster. This whole thing is so disgusting as are the people who want the poor girl to die.

[MichiganVote]

50. Well you know genius, for someone so smart

you sure talk dumb. How do you dare to cast a whole plot on this family without so much as a shred of evidence? So the guy started a new family, so what? That makes the woman he is with now a slut?

Please, grow up out of middle school and get a life. The slut word is for juveniles, not wannabe moralists.

[NickB79]

51. The courts did not arbitrarily decide she wanted to die

They interviewed numerous friends and relatives of Terri, not just her husband, along with the expert testimony of doctors that had treated her, before they came to the conclusion she did, indeed, want to be allowed to die if she entered a vegetative state. In all the subsequent court appeals, every single one of them supported the original ruling. Were all those judges wrong?

You do realize that Terri's parents are the ones who encouraged Michael to start dating again, right? And you do realize that it was the mental torture by the parents when Terri was a young woman that pushed her to bulimia and ultimately, her heart attack brought on by a potassium imbalance in the heart, don't you? Who were the disgusting ones here, the parents who's cruelty caused their daughter's heart attack, or her husband, who stood by her and fought for her for 15 years for her wishes to be carried out?

No one here is celebrating her death. We are celebrating the fact that hopefully her soul is at peace now, and that she is in a better place.

[dionysus]

56. adultering?!!!

you're on crack man!

[Lindacooks]

61. That's right - there is no written statement.

JUST DECISIONS FROM 30 JUDGES THAT THOSE WERE HER WISHES. What about that do you not get? It was adjudicated that her wishes were to not remain on life support. That makes it fact.

Which happens to be the law in this country. Or do you not support the rule of law??

And I think you'd better quit calling her husband a 'torturer' and his girlfriend a 'slut'. They aren't public figure, and can probably sue you for defamation.

[dionysus]

54. oh thats BULLSHIT on so many levels, worthy of a

n/t

[dionysus]

55. you sound like a deranged fundy.

and i don't want any part of what you call 'morals'

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

19. If humans didn't play g-d in the first place

Terri would have passed on 15 years ago.

[Massachusetts]

23. Vatican has other things to worry about!

Where is Cardinal Law??????

[Zenlitened]

25. Living in style, enjoying every comfort in the world...

... after fleeing the jurisdiction to a post in the vatican.

Bet he sleeps just fine at night, too.

:puke:

[dave29]

26. From their mouths

to the sheeples ears

[hedda_foil]

28. The Vatican is now in the hands of Opus Dei.

Cardinal Ratzinger filled in for the Pope at Easter, which makes it look like he's next in line for the papacy. Ratzinger IS Opus Dei.

[Nikia]

30. Until I heard about the case, I didn't know they were against it

When my mother worked in am adminstrative position at a Catholic nursing home, she observed the starvation/dehydration death of a comatose old priest. His nephew who was his guardian decided to pull the tube and let him die. The nursing home went along with this with no problems. My mother seemed bothered by it, but the nuns who ran it weren't.

[CO Liberal]

31. CO Liberal Denounces The Vatican

On general principles.

:-)

[Zerex71]

32. It's official.

I denounce the Vatican as out of touch and completely insane, and no reason is involved whatsoever. Someone pull the Vatican's feeding tube and put us all out of our misery.

[Zerex71]

33. I'm still waiting for their denouncement on the death of over 100k Iraqis.

Or shouldn't I hold my breath?

[Catt03]

46. And I am still awaiting the denouncement on the rape of

thousands of American children by pedophile priests.

This pope refused to accept any responsiblity for the behavior of his "servants". He wanted them to be forgiven as "sinners" not prosecuted as criminals.

Know that I am a Catholic and will always be a Catholic. However, make no mistake: When the sickening rhetoric of William Donahue and Bill Bennett and the radical depictions of Mel Gibson and the religiosity of Antonio Scalia and Clarence Thomas try to turn my country into a theocracy.....know that I am totally pissed!

The Jesus Christ I know is pissed too.

[despairing optimist]

34. Yes, it would have been better to have Terri drift away on a morphine OD

I look forward to the day when we can do for the people we love what we can do for the pets we love. Far from a "violation of the principles of civilization," it's civilization's ultimate commitment to human dignity. To be spared the agony of slow death, when all someone has to look forward to is existence merely to experience more pain and suffering, when those who love someone can't do anything but watch and wait, how can ending such a life be considered anything but a final act of love?

Life's meaning resides in what an individual does with it, not what it does to him or her. It is because of religious and legal taboos that Terri was not allowed to die more quickly and mercifully by medical intervention. Put the blame for that where it belongs, not on the hospice system or Michael Schiavo. He and the hospice staff are heroes, working inside a legal and moral framework imposed on them by the same people who would condemn them for finding a better way to die with dignity. It is they, the Catholic church included, who resist active euthanasia and compel family members to resort to withholding food and water. It is they who deserve condemnation.

[distressedsister]

38. here here!

I'm not a Vatican fan at all.

These are the same idealogues that forbid freakin' birth control. Their opinion on any health matter is upside down.

[despairing optimist]

40. After 13 years of Catholic schooling, I'm not a Vatican fan either

Nor are many US Catholics, who doubtless made up a good portion of the large majority of Americans endorsing Michael Schiavo's view of things.

No wonder parishes and parish schools are consolidating. People are voting with their feet and taking their wallets with them.

[dhinojosa]

36. This guy is looking to be pope so bad.

Damn.

[Festivito]

37. What buffoonery! Nothing about their own priest on court record.

Chest pumping Vatican officials who did no homework. How stupifying of them.

[whosinpower]

41. When the Vatican denounces the war

In Iraq and ALL the needless deaths resulting from it...then perhaps I will listen. Otherwise - my ears are shut to such hypocrisy.

[Ilsa]

44. I think they did, originally.

But they've been quiet since then. The Pope looked like he might have been snubbing Dumbya on a visit last year.

Of course, maybe I don't remember anything correctly. My memory has been a little shot lately.

[bunkerbuster1]

48. Bunker Buster says: "Tough Sh*t, you're not the boss of us."

Now go run along and play with those dorky Swiss Army dudes.

[leesa]

49. How idiotic! So I guess they are condemning God for taking her?

Why not condemn the doc who put the feeding tube in the first place, thus taking her death out of God's hands?

[lumpy]

52. The Vatican is irrelevant,

redundant and irresponsible.

[FormerOstrich]

53. I was talking to my Mom....

She was saying how she just doesn't get the Catholics position. She worked in a Catholic Hospital for over 20 years. Removing the feeding tube was done frequently. They provided some counseling services for the family. Why now are they changing their position? Are they changing their practices, as well?

[high density]

57. "Easy comparison" between Pope and Schiavo?!

Last I checked the Pope's brain isn't 90% gone! I am so ashamed of my church... again and again.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

58. Easiest. Softball. Evah.

Hmmm... no, I'll pass.

[Riverman]

59. Makes the Blessed Virgin Cry

The nuns use to say that to make us little catholic boys feel guilty. As a good, devout young catholic boy and altar boy, I had a special devotion to the Blessed Virgin. I'm listening to Mike Malloy as I say this - also a raised Catholic boy. I think, if there ever was a Virgin Mother - yeah right! But, she would be crying for the flock now - non stop! Can the Catholic Hierarchy get any more immoral - siding with the Bush Crime Family, the hypocritical bible thumpers, the santimonious decadent politicians. While the equally immoral media keep this near dead poor woman on the screen 24/7, 10 people died senselessly on an Indian Reservation in Northern Minnesota, a child was allowed to die in Texas because the law the W signed as gov down there said hospitals could deny medical treatment for lack of ability to pay - what horrible decadent immorality. Where is God now?

Maybe God wants this sick culture to whither!

[imenja]

60. Jerry Falwell has taken over the Vatican

This is absurd, and contradicts decades of Catholic positions on the subject of artificial life support. The American Catholic Hospital Association says that Catholic hospitals should not subject patients to burdensome artificial life support. Nor are Catholics, according to them, required to tolerate such technology when it has no role in restoring health.

I posted a thread on this subject a couple of days ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x15399

[jdj]

62. well, they would know about a "death sentence through cruel method"

the inquisition worked great for them back in the day.

[okoboji]

63. where in the Bible

does it say ....

On the 8th day, God gave Adam a feeding tube and said, "If a person can no longer feed themselves due to a tragic incident and appear to be responsive, even though numorous tests prove otherwise, continue to feed them anyway, for that is the natural way of life."


where does it say this?

[saigon68]

64. The pope's in bad shape

looks like the feeding tube won't be in long.