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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:44 PM
Original message
Pope may need feeding tube, reports say
Last update: March 29, 2005 at 1:24 PM
Pope may need feeding tube, reports say
Associated Press
March 29, 2005

VATICAN CITY -- Pope John Paul II may have to return to the hospital to have a feeding tube inserted, an Italian news agency reported today. It stressed that no decision had been made.

The APcom news agency, citing an unidentified source, said the 84-year-old pope might have to have the tube inserted to improve his nutrition since he is having difficulty swallowing with the breathing tube that was inserted Feb. 24.

APcom said the idea of inserting a feeding tube was a hypothesis that was being considered. The procedure involves inserting a tube into the stomach to allow for artificial feeding.

<snip>

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5318705.html
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rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Pope May Go Back To Hospital for FEEDING TUBE


snip.....26 minutes ago Europe - AP



VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul II may have to return to the hospital to have a feeding tube inserted, an Italian news agency reported Tuesday. It stressed that no decision had been made.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050329/ap...


Let this poor guy out of his contract Dear Lord.....
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Dupe
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 01:47 PM by Walt Starr
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. i thought traditionally...
....the pope isn't sick until he is dead
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Where did you get that idea?
The Pope can step down if he wants to.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Wasn't that true until Pope Gregory called for a physician?
Then, all hell broke loose in the Vatican body politic.

Until Leo (1900-ish) they used to bang the pope's head with a silver hammer to signify his death.

I'm not making this up!

Shades of Beatles' Songs.
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer
Every pope has the equivalent of a chief of staff, called the camerlengo. When a pope dies, the camerlengo must first certify that he is indeed dead. The ritual tradition is to strike him on the forehead with a silver hammer, calling his baptismal name three times. An alternative is to place a cloth over his mouth. If he does not respond, the camerlengo declares him dead, authorizes a death certificate and then seals the papal living and working apartments.

Later, the silver hammer will be used to scratch and break the papal ring and seal, so no documents can be forged in his name.

http://www.ucg.org/wnp/wnp0409/manpope.htm
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. PS- another site says papal hammering has been discontinued
(there is a ritual to 'prove' the Pope is dead, utilzing wittnesses and a small silver hammer)

Though widely spoken of, this ritual, in which a senior cardinal tapped the pope on the head with a silver hammer and asked "art thou dead?" was abolished long ago, though it is regularly referred to (and no doubt will be when John Paul II dies) it is in fact a modern myth. It no longer happens and has not occured for a long long time. FearIREANN 20:43 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)

ope_John_Paul_I" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk :Pope_John_Paul_I
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Telling detail
Later, the silver hammer will be used to scratch and break the papal ring and seal, so no documents can be forged in his name.

Sounds like they have a lot of untrustworthy people around there!
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. They seal the pope's rooms because they used to loot them.
I'm pretty sure that Pope Leo was the last to be silver hammered.
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loro mi dicevano Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. *BANGS HEAD AGAINST WALL*
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 02:06 PM by loro mi dicevano
IT IS NEVER OVER.

</caps lock ;)>
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Haha.
Get Jeb Bush a plane ticket...
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. May I please join in with you. What wall?
This is beyond the pale and we have all collectively crossed over into the "Twilight Zone"!

DAMN!
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. thank goodness the corporate media isn't sensationalist
/sarcasm off

Tonight on Faux/CNN/MSGOP:
corporate media's frenzy-feeding tube and the death of a Nation
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. IRONIC.... geez. n/t
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. When reading this headline, this thought struck me:
How incredibly, awfully alone this man is. I hope he has some true friends to comfort him in his hour of need.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Are we all going to be on feeding tubes some day?
Let me say here and now, If I ever become unable to communicate my wishes and am confined to a hospital bed supported by machines, I DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE LIVING.

I hope that clears things up.
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. the Carlyle Group is heavily invested in feeding tube technology...
it's the only explanation.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. I wonder...
if this DU post would hold legal muster if it came down to it...
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. It would certainly be admissable evidence in some states
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 04:16 PM by Walt Starr
Not all, but some.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. No, it clears nothing up for the Fundies believe if we don't feed you
via a "feeding tube" we are KILLING you. Nope that won't do. In addition to outlawing abortion and contraception, you must SUBMIT to the feeding tube. Not giving you one would be tantamount to murder as Terri Schiavo would remain completely *healthy* by continuing to use the feeding tube. Forget cerebral brain-DEAD, she's breathing ain't she? If yer alive, breathing on yer own, you WILL have a feeding tube - those that are trying to "save Terri's life" will make it so. /sarcasm off
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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. In my opinion, he is an excellent candidate
for a feeding tube. He functions at a high level intellectually, and has an irreversible tracheal stenosis. He has multifactorial difficulty with swallowing-Parkinsons, stenosis, kyphosis, etc. If he were in my care, I would certainly offer this technology.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You have a point.
He is high functioning, as nearly as we can tell from press reports. If he doesn't leave instructions, though, and slips into a coma or PVS state things could get interesting.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. He's already said removing the tube is immoral.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. I could be wrong, but I believe THAT statement came from "The Vatican"
Not The Pope personally ... of course he would endorse it. I continue to be disappointed by our ultra-conservative leadership.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. yep
Pope in PVS, not dead, no conclave... very interesting. Be careful what you wish for.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. Um,
I thought he was giving himself over to God, that he was peaceful and all that. :shrug:
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. But ... there's that little 'death' thing
... that most 'religious folk' seem to be so afraid of.

'Give themself to God', sure.
Try to convert and spout dogma to everyone else, sure.
But ... actually ... believe what they preach and let
go gracefully ... and DIE ??

Oh my, no ... that's just too ... scary for many of them.



Flame away. B-)
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
48. Isn't that the most amazing thing..
The more religious they are, the more afraid they are of dying and will do anything to prevent it. My goodness, I have been in awe of the hypocrisy of it all.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Excellent point Delphinus ...
For ONE For ALL ... Feeding tubes for everyone. Yes you too can have the full "up close and personal" experience of metastasized Cancer eating out every single body system. Yes, allow the Cancer to really do it's job. Nope, no exceptions! /sarcasm off
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. The Vatican bureaucrats aren't ready for him to die.
He's in their hands more than God's.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, obviously, if he needs one he should get it. No controversy here. nt
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No controversy whatsoever
Just irony.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. yep
and he might very well recover too! I wouldn't put anything past my Pope John Paul II!

I hope he recovers. People that think John Paul is "conservative" haven't seen anything yet! Just wait until the next pope emerges on the scene! UGH!!!! I hate to even think about it.

Memories are short when it comes to popes.

:kick:
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh joy, more angst.
Unless he can swallow food again, we know a feeding tube once inserted won't be removed until they pull it from his cold, dead body. Suffering is an integral part of life and is good for the soul. :eyes:
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don954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. im statting to see a pattern here
Farwell... the Pope... did someone get out the smiting stick today?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
44. Lots more--Johnny Cochran, that Alabama Senator...
spring has sprung, at last.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. I want one too
I want a feeding tube. . . eating was always a chore for me anyhow. Ooo... and how much does the sludge the put through it cost per gallon? Could be more cost effective than masticating as well. Any thoughts on these implications?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. NO cooking, no shopping, no dishes....
you may have a point there!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. *shakes head* In case you were wondering what IRONY is?
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. Maybe they can go dig Terri's out of the trash and give it to him n/t
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
35. You know, I remember when Catholics opposed "unnatural means
of preserving life." This was supposed to be God's will - you weren't SUPPOSED to use stuff like feeding tubes and ventilators and suchlike. The lines have gotten more and more blurry over time, till now there are some among us who seem to think that NOT using extraordinary measures to preserve some semblance of life is wrong.

I'm confused. Isn't the whole point supposed to be to let God decide who lives and who dies? Wouldn't that mean that if God chose to perform a miracle and keep someone alive WITHOUT feeding tubes and ventilators, He would do so? Wouldn't said use of medical technologies then show a lack of faith in God's ability to save those whom He wishes to save?
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. Maybe Dubya will anoint Karl Rove as the new Pope.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Oh yeah, KKKarl Rove as new Pope ... how 'bout Richard Perle as 1st LT?
:scared:
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. First we have to 'liberate' the Vatican.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Oh, you win!
Doesn't Richard Perle look good in black?

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Nah! Stripes, Maybe, or Prison Orange would work for him,
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
47. I have no problem with a feeding tube to help a throat surgery to heal.
Good grief, this should be a no brainer, eh?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. You may be right, but I don't think needing a feeding tube is a good sign
These kind of cascading medical interventions in someone his age seem to just prolong the inevitable, usually. And not by much.
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