Pope is ‘serenely giving himself to the will of God’

[truthpusher]

March 25, 2005
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Pope is ‘serenely giving himself to the will of God’
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By Ruth Gledhill Religion Correspondent
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THE POPE is “serenely abandoning” himself to God’s will, according to a senior Vatican cardinal. Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, the head of the Congregation of Bishops, made his comments during a sermon at a Maundy Thursday Chrism Mass at St Peter’s, in Rome, where he was standing in for the ailing Pope John Paul II.
Senior Roman Catholic sources in London emphasised last night that the comments referred to the Pope’s spiritual rather than physical health, but acknowledged that his health was deteriorating.

The Cardinal’s comments came at the end of a week where the Pope’s health has worsened further, with reports by Italian news agencies that he has been vomiting, suffering strong headaches and not responding to medication.

However, the doctors treating him said that there were no immediate plans for the Pope to return to hospital, although just one public engagement, an Easter Sunday blessing, is scheduled for him this weekend, making this the first year in his papacy that he has missed the traditional Holy Week services.

(snip)

Cardinal Re said: “We want to thank him for the witness he continues to give us even through his example of serene abandonment to God, which he links to the mystery of the Cross.” At the start of the Mass, the Cardinal read a message from the Pope. It said: “I am united ideally with all of you who are gathered in the Vatican basilica. Via television from my apartment, my dearest ones, I am spiritually with you.”

more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1541316,00.html

[Flammable Materials]

1. I demand a feeding tube. STAT! n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Raise your hand if that was your first thought

raises hand

[POAS]

8. Raising both hands.n/t

[don954]

34. both hands here too

whats good the the goose is good for the gander you know...

[Seabiscuit]

74. Both hands, both feet.

Someone should ask him if it's god's will to interfere in American politics and the American judicial system by making inflamatory speeches.

[jdj]

37. my first thought was "obviously God doesn't want him

or he'd surely have taken him by now."

There are some things my dogs will not eat, they just spit it back out.

[Emillereid]

39. Gotta admit it -- thought 'put him on artificial life support!'

[SemperEadem]

65. hand up

I thought the very same thing. How come the Pope can do it but no one else can?

[bush_is_wacko]

71. As a Catholic we are taught that death is part of God's plan

The Catholic religion is very different from all these Evangelical, Fundie type religions when it comes to death. Priest really do guide their parishioners toward acceptance and faith, with regards to death,not machines and artificial life support. God calls people home. Life begins with baptism and ends with last rites. It's really quite simple. I have never seen a Catholic family struggle with the issue the way the Schindler's are struggling, even when the person is young and seems to be going "before their time" the church believes God wants that person by his side at that specific time for a specific reason.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. Tell Michael Schiavo -- he's the one who allowed Terri to have a feeding

tube. Before he remembered she wouldn't want to live as a profoundly disabled person.

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't say people must accept feeding tubes and neither has the pope. He has said it is wrong to deny someone food and water, neither of which are high tech medical treatments, just simple requirements for life.

Did you know the Nazis killed 70, 000 disabled people because they were "useless eaters"? They'd approve of what's being done to Terri Schiavo now.

[phylny]

45. It must be amazingly easy to live in a world

of black and white, with no shades of gray.

[ima_sinnic]

51. oh, yeah, condemn Mr. Schiavo for actually TRULY CARING

about Terri.
Yes, he put her on a feeding tube early on, WHEN IT APPEARED SHE MIGHT RESPOND to therapy and treatment. As it became more and more clear that she would never recover and would only get worse, that maintaining what was essentially a "breathing corpse," he asked that HER WISHES be respected and she be allowed to die a NATURAL and DIGNIFIED DEATH.

How nice that his-holiness-the-only-true-spokesman-of-god be allowed to give himself up to God's will. Too bad Terri isn't allowed to. For some reason a vegetative body with no mind is a better fate than being allowed to join the kingdom of heaven when your time's up.

on edit: I forgot to say: SHE'S NOT "PROFOUNDLY DISABLED"!!! HER BRAIN HAS TURNED TO LIQUID! and she ain't comin back, no matter how strongly you believe in magic potions and mumbo jumbo. By your reasoning the pope is merely "profoundly disabled" and should be REFUSED HIS RIGHT TO GIVE HIMSELF UP TO "THE WILL OF GOD."

[FlaGranny]

55. Actually, it is not true

that feeding someone through a feeding tube is not high tech. Let me explain. A surgeon makes an abdominal incision and enters the stomach. The feeding tube is anchored into the stomach so it won't pull out. Sutures are placed inside and outside. This area must be treated as an open wound for as long as it is there, with frequent cleansing and dressing changes. People on feeding tubes get multiple infections no matter how carefully the wounds are dressed. Antibiotics need to be given frequently. People who need feeding tubes or respiratory support are just about the only people that Medicare will approve for long-term nursing home care because medical support is needed.

It is good that this poor woman does not feel pain or have any higher brain functions. She probably has pus-filled bed sores, recurrent infections, and many other medical problems. She probably has muscle contractures. If she did have any awareness, she would be suffering what otherwise might be classified as torture.

If anyone thinks she IS aware, picture how you would feel if someone strapped you down to a bed, gagged you so you couldn't communicate, cut a hole into your stomach, inserted a feeding tube, and held you there for 15 years. You'd be begging to die. Maybe that smile they like to show on TV is really as good a grimace as she can produce.

Folks, there is a big, liquid filled cavity where her sense of self and cognitive function once resided. It is ghoulish to keep her alive artificially - because that is what is is - artificial. No human or even animal should be kept alive by such methods. As a temporary measure, for a person who has a good chance of recovery - that's what a feeding tube was meant for and that's why it was first invented. It was never meant to become a long-term artificial life support system.

I will never understand this "keep the body alive at all costs" mentality, I guess. It seems like a very alien thing to do.

[Scairp]

57. She won't be allowed to have pain

She is probably on a morphine drip as we speak.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. OK which is it? Is he the devil for exhausitng all hope that she'd come

back? Or is he the devil for honoring what she apparently said following a funeral of someone who had lingered on and on in such a state? This statement was heard by others.

Of all the means of keeping someone on life support, did you know the feeding tube was the one that led to the most complications? Infections? Blod sugar disorders?

Nobody id advocating ALLOWING Terri Schiavo to die to get rid of her. We're liberals and we favor WHAT PEOPLE WANT FOR THEIR LIFE AND THEIR DEATH..


I suppose you forgot that Hitler relied heavily on religious symbolism to seduce people into allowing HIM to control who lives or who dies.

[NickB79]

63. Fine, go low-tech and give her a glass of water and some crackers

See how long it takes before she chokes to death.

As someone else pointed out, giving Terri food and water IS a high-tech medical treatment.

[BornLeft]

64. In a related story

Pentagon secretly working on plan to invade Vatican City and force feed the poop. <err Pope darn typos>

[BlueEyedSon]

2. LMFAO!!! About fucking time, don't you think????

[Retired AF Dem]

5. Note to self

Make out living will. Everyone else would like to see me dead.

[pscot]

3. It's about fucking time

The worst pope since Pius XII.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[saigon68]

48. ADIOS

Vaya Con Dios

[Retired AF Dem]

9. My opinion

and it doesn't mean shit since every one has one. I think when Terry dies hubby has finally finished what he started 15 years ago. Of course I'm wrong just like everyone was right on who killed the judges husband and mother in Chicago last month.

[Paul Hood]

11. WTF? n/t

[Retired AF Dem]

18. Do I stutter?

There is to many questions for me. Hubby living with his common law wife and two kids should of divorced Terry and released his rights to Terry's parents years ago. The biggest concern I have is he saying that she should be cremated immediately after death. Sorry I'm allowed my concerns.

[opiate69]

20. First, it's "should HAVE"...

second, if he had divorced her years ago, I imagine you'd probably think he was a major-league asshole for not standing by her like his vows stated. Third, he began seeing this other woman only after obtaining Terri's parents' blessing. But, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant....

[Retired AF Dem]

23. I married my wife 30 years ago

and yes the vows mean alot to me and I have never violated them through thick and thin. I know I'm old fashioned and a asshole. I didnt think I could be allowed my own opinion here.

[opiate69]

26. You're obviously allowed your own opinion here.. but remember

if it's based on faulty information, it will be challenged.. and congratulations on making your marriage work. (I do mean that sincerely.. lasting marriages seem to be a dying custom. Here's to 30 more. :toast: )

[Retired AF Dem]

27. I just hope I live that much longer

:)

[cap]

41. i told my husband to find someone if I ended up

like this. I had a friend who dated someone whose wife was in a coma for 10 years. They got married when she finally died. It is a very tough row to hoe. If someone needs a little comfort, they should have it after a decent interval.

As for divorce, I dont know if the courts would allow it. Think how many skanks would walk away from their spouse. Who gets stuck with the medical bills?

As for letting Terri's parents take over. I wouldnt do it if my understanding was that Terri didnt want to be on a feeding tube.

Remember Karen Quinlan? This is not a new issue.

[demigoddess]

73. I'm a retired AF wife and I will say that if my husband thinks that

I want him to keep me alive like Terri Schiavo to honor his marriage vows then he has another think coming. I do not want to be a non-productive partner, or just a body to my husband. As I would say do not weep for me, I am not there, look for me on the wind. I think your wife might too. Ask her, dont tell her

[Paul Hood]

21. No you don't stutter I just wasn't sure you were thinking

that her husband killed her.

[ima_sinnic]

52. oh, gee, like being a devoted husband is a crime

---and why don't you rush down to Pinellas Park and insert yourself in his private business? I mean, gee, cremation? that's terrible! HOW DARE HE!! the "sanctity of marriage" applies ONLY when it can be used AGAINST gay people, I guess. when a husband does something that the sanctimonious busybody handwringers don't agree with, then he "should of divorced" his wife instead of continuing for 15 years to try to assure her "life" included a little dignity. The way her parents are conducting this self-serving circus act, they are the last ones who should have "control" of her.

[saracat]

13. What?

[alcuno]

16. Terri collapsed because of bulimia. Low potassium caused her heart

to stop. Please get your facts straight because opinion is KILLING this country.

[rooboy]

28. That doesn't make any sense at all. n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

31. So who really snuffed the judge's family, the Pope?

Wow! LOL

[Al-CIAda]

19. Now THAT was in poor taste...

:evilgrin:

[bemildred]

10. I guess the clock is ticking then. nt

[IronLionZion]

12. Will they please let that poor man retire

He has served honorably and well. It's time for a new pope, hopefully a good progressive one.

[Hatalles]

14. Never! Only Jeb Bush can save the Pope now!

[Donailin]

32. He doesn't WANT to retire.

He could have done anything he wanted, he chose to be the pope in the window as his legacy.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Zerex71]

22. The Pope is "slowly dying".

At least that's what normal people call it.

[Whoa_Nelly]

24. So, who's up to be the Pope's successor?

n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

29. Ask Opus Dei, they aren't speaking to me...

Fascism is on the rise, don't you know.

[Ilsa]

25. Does this mean he's stopped feeding himself? n/t

[Donailin]

30. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Serenely???? He's been completely irrelevant in the most important time of history and he's serene???

God forgive me, I'm just gonna shut up now.

[leesa]

33. Well, do it already. Why are religious people always so afraid to die?

[LibertyorDeath]

35. Fear of Death is what religion is built on.

[hippiechick]

56. Exactly !

:yourock:

[Mojorabbit]

36. Is it me

or are comments getting more and more mean spirited here lately?

[Bridget Burke]

49. Of course.

That's usually the purpose of these threads. I can understanding objecting to Catholic doctrine--or actions of specific clerics.

But a vocal minority of DU'ers actually share Jack Chick's view of the Church. They were raised that way; anti-Catholicism has an old history in the US.

[d.l.Green]

50. Yup, and us former Catholics who were brought up with the BS are just

jumping on some bandwagon. Maybe I got screwed-up genes in my brain, but hypocrisy in the name of a religious cult never sat well with me. So when I became an adult, I realized I didn't have to succumb to the illicit rationalities stalking my psyche. And even when coming to this realization it still took more than 10 years to clear my mind of the instilled guilt.

I think the purpose of this string anyway is to contrast the hypocrisy of the Church and the Repugs. The Repugs run to the Church for political points and the Church plays right along.:nopity:

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[Bridget Burke]

58. You're not alone.

www.ianpaisley.org/toc.asp?loc=rome

A lifetime of bile & you've got even more to spew....

[ima_sinnic]

60. each to his own--you're free to believe in it if you're so inclined (n/t)

[lovuian]

38. The pope is saying no more Ventilators or other assistance

Its called dignity and quality of life and he is thinking of his church!!!

[Dem2theMax]

40. The irony. The pope gets to be serene, but Terri has had to live a living

hell for 15 years. The pope is against removing HER feeding tube, but he gets to be 'serene.' Can I :puke: now?

[It was not a pretzel]

43. exactly

against letting Terri go but doesn't want the same for himself. Absolutely DISGUSTING

[reality based]

44. This is the elephant in the Catholic Church right now

How long will this irony go without comment in the MSM? Speaking of elephants, the Church hierarchy and a lot of fundie Protestant churches are essentially becoming instruments of the Republican Party. I predict growing anticlerical feelings among the electorate. Anyone for relieving our tax burdens a little? After watching the commercial for healing spring water on my cable TV, I have done a 180 degree change on the religious tax exemption.

[displacedtexan]

46. I'm waiting for the feeding tube, too!

Damn.

The Vatican joined the Schiavo Circus willingly and somewhat gleefully.

This is The Scopes Trial of my lifetime, damn it!

Ah, politics!

No new pope until the present one is dispatched.

[Heidi]

47. Hasn't that been his job all along?

Just sayin' . . . Is this a new development?

[NNN0LHI]

61. I say keep him alive for 15 years even if he goes into a vegetative state

And not one minute less. That would only be fair.

Don

[emad]

62. UK bookies Ladbrokes quote odds of 6/4 that JP2 RIPs on Easter

Sunday.
7/1 for double whammy: Prince Rainier of Monacao & JP2 both on same day.

No internet link but posted from local radio station playing in this internet cafe in Central London about 10 minutes ago....

[SemperEadem]

66. Wow!

considering the religious history of the past 479 years in London, I'm not surprised.

[truthpusher]

67. If Schiavo and the Pope both go on Easter....

...The heads of the devotes will explode by the thousands.

[emad]

70. Add Pinochet to the list. Oxford v Cambridge Boat Race ending

with a boat overturned into the Thames (33/1 quoted) AND Queen Elizabeth II dropping dead (from ennui re forthcoming royal wedding)....and there's a great Easter betting accumulator....

[hippiechick]

68. The hypocrisy is astounding .

He's 'ready to give himself over to God', but Ms. Schiavo must be kept trapped in that shell, indefinitely ?

OMFG. :mad:

[Baconfoot]

75. Right on. NT

[elcondor]

69. I hope he goes peacefully and soon

He is clearly suffering. I hope for him what I hope for everyone in a miserable, uncurable physical state--to go quietly, with dignity and peacefully. As a Jew, I absolutely don't agree with many of his beliefs, but I don't like hearing about ANYONE suffering.



... I also hope he doesn't pass away on the same day as Ms. Shiavo.

[donco6]

72. Would that God would take him already. eom