Bad advice to Bush blamed for Social Security struggle

[Rose Siding]

Conservatives in and out of Congress say President Bush has been taking bad advice on Social Security, hurting his chance to win private investment accounts for younger workers.
Mr. Bush has refused to rule out measures that would contradict his campaign promises on Social Security, putting himself in what conservatives say is a weak negotiating position with Democrats.

"The president would do well to put markers down as to what we are going to do and what we are not going to do on Social Security taxes and benefits," said Rep. Mike Pence, Indiana Republican.

A senior Republican senator said, "The message coming out of the White House is that we'll fix Social Security by raising your taxes and cutting your retirement benefits and, to get something passed, we'll forget about the personal retirement accounts we promised."

The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050310-114934-7336r...

Looking past the Wa Times spin (poor bush, it's not HIS fault), this is some devastating coverage.

[Sub Atomic]

1. Holy shit.

A Republican tells the truth.

The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

[rocktivity]

31. How many senior Republican Senators are there?

Maybe we can track him/her down!


rocknation

[foo_bar]

58. it seems like something McCain would say

during a primary campaign, at least.

[phantom power]

40. But lying is how they *get* elected.

[radfringe]

75. rolling my eyes

here we go again with the "no-fault" pResident -- not his fault he took bad advice

not his fault intel reports were wrong about WMDs

not his fault the FBI screwed up intel about 9-11

it's all clinton's fault!

meanwhile -- enjoy these new toons
toon 1 ---> http://radfringe.tripod.com /
toon 2 ---> http://radfringe.tripod.com/id1.html
(comments/feedback always welcomed)

[oustemnow]

84. but, but, but

The Rethuggies' line used to be, "Yeah, he's not that bright himself, but he know how to surround himself with good people."

What HAPPENED?!?

[Sterling]

79. "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

Has not seemed to hurt them yet, why change now?

[Career Prole]

2. "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

CAN I GET AN AMEN?!

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rndmprsn]

17. AAAAMMMMEEENNN!!!!!!

what a great freaking line =]

[VegasWolf]

32. But if he, a Republican, is telling the truth that they lie, then is he

lying? I'm all confused!

[annabanana]

34. hahahahahahahahahahaha

(coffee all over keyboard)

[annabanana]

33. bloody hands never acknowledged.....

Put those blood soaked hooks into a few well stuffed pockets and suddenly "they'll never trust us again"..

Dear God that's ugly.

[CottonBear]

39. AMEN brother!

Holy Private Accounts, Batman! I almost fell off my chair when I read that quote. Damn!

[malmapus]

42. AMEN!

tell it like it is =D

[Just Me]

88. Never, ever, EVER trust a Republican. They lie for profit.

They betray us all to profit themselves!!!!

[Nickster]

3. "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

Well, DUHHHHHHHH!!!!! Some of us have already figured out that little tid bit. LMAO

[Inland]

22. But the repug says its like ADMITTING lying, which is the real sin

Notice that there isn't a problem with lying, just admitting the obvious fact that Bush lies his ass off.

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. Ohhh!!! Great campaign commercial and soundbyte!!

I'd love to see that one replayed as many times as Howard Dean's scream!!

[woodsprite]

27. YEAH!!! Let's do it! n/t

[Born Free]

57. Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie.

Maybe it's \ a Freudian slip but, I love it when these people let the truth slip out, now if only the American people would listen to what he is saying here...

[fertilizeonarbusto]

4. Poor Chimp!

AW

[unblock]

5. "never vote for republicans again -- we lie"

i'm amazed they finally admitted it!

[Career Prole]

10. Tell 'em to put it on a bumper sticker

They'll make a bundle...might even be enough to post bail for 'em all.

[pdurod1]

6. duh...

The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

[librechik]

8. oh, did someone notice the New Christ is not entirely perfect?

what a shocker,

But I agree--never vote for Republicans--they lie! And it is way too late to be telling the American people!

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Bush gets bad advice ALL the time. What's different now?

Repubs must be against this because it's going to raise taxes. It's okay for Bush to kill their sons & daughters by sending them to a meritless war, but what does it take for Repubs to start fighting back? Taxes.

[Neecy]

11. aw, what a cute widdle monkey...

NOTHING is his fault, is it? He gets 'bad advice', 'bad intelligence', etc.

The problem is that he's a 'bad president'!!!!

[peekaloo]

16. That, too, deserves an AMEN.

[TankLV]

48. And who hired these criminals in the first place - hmmmmmm?

Don't look at the big elephant in the middle of the room!

[BrainRants]

12. But notice the subtle "other story" here...

"Conservatives in and out of Congress say President Bush has been taking bad advice on Social Security..."

Do I detect a foundation being laid for blame passing?

Who is going to be his patsy? (Paging Mr. Greenspan?)

[chomskysright]

66. YES! blame-passing is the plan by the liars...

[leesa]

13. Ah, yes...the old "I got bad advice" defense. God, Republicans NEVER

take responsibility for anything! What incredible cowards they are!

[Barkley]

19. You're so right leesa!

When Bush fails he almost never takes personal responsibility for the failure its -- "bad advise's" fault.

[LiberalCompassionate]

62. bad advise

please advise on the one time he ever took responsibility!

I don't recall any....

poor chimperor

[maxrandb]

89. Like Ken Lay

got "bad advice" about his companies finances.

It's like saying OJ got bad advice about killing, Michael Jackson got bad advice about sharing his bed with young boys, Jose Canseco got bad advice about steroid use, Mike Tyson got bad advice about nutrition.

When is the party that lectures us about being responsible NO MATTER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES BEFALL YOU (see the Bankruptcy Bill), going to take some responsibility for their actions?

[UTUSN]

14. Never Shrub's Personal Responsibility - Always Bad Advice. n/t

[hatrack]

53. And next? "I apologize if anyone was offended."

Passive voice. ALWAYS passive voice!

[shanti]

15. badda-boom!

The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

there ya go!

[denverbill]

18. The bad advice was that they actually gave out some details.

If they'd have hidden all the details of their plan until after it was voted on, people might have supported it.

[gratuitous]

20. Hold it -- what was all that bankruptcy bill folderol?

Something about folks taking "personal responsibility" for their own actions? How about a spoonful of that personal responsibility medicine for a pig-headed buffoon in the Oval Office? I've seen him all over the news lately, and either they're doing a tight, tight focus on him or there really isn't anyone holding a gun to his empty head, forcing him to lay out this snake oil day after day in town after town.

What are we, seven days into the 60 stops in 60 days Bamboozlepalooza? Looks like some of Chimpy's fellow travelers are getting a little road-weary already.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

21. I hear that

I plan to thoroughly enjoy the next two months. He got good and heckled yesterday and it's going to keep happening. It will be like Woodrow Wilson's League of Nations tour: a desperate disaster.

[coloradodem2005]

23. I hope this thing dies.

[dubyaD40web]

24. ONE GREAT QUOTE!!!!

[SF Bay Area Dem]

25. The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans

This is absolutely devastating... but remember we cannot let our guard down. * would be crazy enough to invade Iran and under the guise of war pass thing through the Congress while bashing dems for being "unpatriotic" in a time of war for not supporting his SSI scam... Sound far-fetched? Maybe but I would not put it past Rove and his goons...

[bunkerbuster1]

28. What "campaign promises on Social Security"?

idiots. This was barely a blip in the debates, he only trotted out a few SS talking points near the end.

Nobody, but nobody, voted for (or against, for that matter) Chimpy on this issue.

And nobody (talking voting-population wise, not corporate-overlord-wise) save for a few Libber faithful would've given a shit if Chimpy had dumped it after Nov. 3rd.

[Colorado Blue]

29. Wow. nt

[rocktivity]

30. If President Mightymouse planned Soc Sec the way he planned Iraq

it's far more likely that he got GOOD advice and didn't take it because it wasn't what he wanted to hear.


rocknation

[LiberalCompassionate]

65. so true

btw, the "president mightymouse" name makes me wonder if that bulge in his jacket during the debates was mightymouse's cape?

[AlCzervik]

35. look for Karen Bigfoot Hughes to come back and help Bush out

[lancdem]

61. She IS coming back

I just read about it on Josh Marshall's site.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com

[UCLA Dem]

36. "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

For once, a repuke tells the truth!!!

[MsMagnificent]

37. Gee, imagine, Bush got BAD ADVICE

Bunch of idiots in that government.

Yeah, the quote is great! LOL

[fob]

38. Bad advice is the only kind that bush* acts on! He uses a "bad advice

filter" so he doesn't have to hear reality.

[gordianot]

41. Reason he * gets bad advice:

During the debates the only lapse of judgment he would admit to is in hiring the wrong people. Of course when you do that you get bad advice and it is not your fault. "Sarcasm"

[DirtyDawg]

43. Not Unlike...

...the bad advice some neocons that haven't liked how the Iraq war has been conducted claim geedubya had gotten. Right out of the 'who me?' play book the rovemiester has concocted...Never admit to a mistake...when you're caught in one, blame it on somebody else.

[ktowntennesseedem]

44. Wish we had a name.

It'd be fun watching this so-far nameless senator deny his/her ass off, then watching the Republican thought-police lower the boom on this terrible, truth-telling traitor!

[ClintonTyree]

45. "Bad advice" is what got us stuck in a quagmire in Iraq.............

listening to "bad advice" seems to be bush's only strong suit. He certainly can't think things out for himself. That's what the nation gets for electing a mental midget. He never studies a situation, he always relies on his closest buddie's judgment. bush doesn't have what it takes to be a night manager at a Seven-Eleven, let alone President of the United States.

"Bad advice". The worst piece of bad advice in his miserable life was when his Mommy didn't listen to her friends when they told her to have an abortion. She carried this POS to term and unleashed him on the world. Thanks, Babs!

His entire life is "bad advice".

[Rainscents]

46. I'm shocked... Thug finally telling the truth!

[coreystone]

47. This has been an issue among a number of Republicans.

This is where their constituencies are actually able to connect the dots; well, at least some of them

In the sales pitch to the American public, this administration has not framed this issue well at all. Bad advice, or, any other kind; this is not an issue that plays well in a number of areas of the country which played "red" in November. There may be some concerns about 2006 on this issue in lieu of the normal "rubber stamp" doctrine!

[Supersedeas]

49. At least there is a Senior Republican senator will to tell it like it is.

Now, if only the MSM would report it.

[Sapphire Blue]

50. Might Walking Eagle’s supporters be questioning his judgment?

Or admitting that he is incapable for thinking for himself?

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. Don't worry: Bush is surrounded by smart people

Who are constantly giving him bad advice...

The schizophrenia required to be a conservative in America today is simply astounding.

[maxrandb]

90. Right! Remember Now. The Adults Are In Charge n/t

[hatrack]

52. Hard to "put down markers" when you don't know what the plan IS

That would explain much of Chimpy's general ineptitude, whore press notwithstanding.

Of course, this could just have been a smoke screen for the Bankruptcy Bill.

[applegrove]

54. He is not going to put markers down. That way he cannot loose. He

gets the debate going .. offers none of his assumptions and no specific solutions... Democrats debate and debate a sheet hanging on a clothesline. Then depending on what happens Bush can surprise us all with the 'assumptions' we didn't make, or change his plan, or a whole world of options.

He will not put markers down too because he would have to admit that the American bond market will be shit in the next 70 years. Meaning that there will be a low level of deflation. Meaning that the world will be quite different. Why would he tell that to Americans while they invest in expensive homes that will loose value. The US government does not want to be a debt owner during deflation... bonds actually do not work during deflation.

Americans will be protected by cheaper and cheaper prices for clothes and food so even though prices go down (due to world competition)standard of life will not tank. It will not be like the 1930s. But - I still wonder what the tools are to keep deflation from growing.. will it be wars... will it be health care spending....

Bush will not put his assumptions down on paper because the rich want to have the information on what the future will look like and the elites do not want to share that with the enemy.. the American Public (the public will just ruin their fun little Oil ride by becoming cautious.. if the public were given the assumptions Bush & his ilk make on the future growth & existence of USA government bonds).

So - as long as Bush can let the information out slow.. it may not cause a panic. It will exhaust the opposition. Didn't you know? Information is a tool of the Bush War on the Middle Class.

We are all being stage-managed on SS.

[atommom]

55. They've done everything but admit that the man doesn't do any

of his thinking for himself! He makes snap decisions based upon bad suggestions from yes-men (who would get tossed out the door for making good suggestions).

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

56. Geez this is really something!

He's the freakin' President and is continually getting bad advice! I suppose he is incapable of telling the difference and therefore is never held accountable as if he's some poor, innocent babe in the woods.
How about this? The plan stinks and YOU CAN"T FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!

[ElectroPrincess]

60. Yes, bad advice ... so what?

When will * be MAN enough to stand up and take responsibility for his mistakes.

Damn, I don't understand republicans' respect for ANYONE who is so arrogant that they can't admit to having made mistakes in their life and in their work.

What? Does * think because he's selected by GOD, that makes everything he does above reproach?

Never before in my lifetime have I seen a Presidential Administration shameless about their errant behavior, and thus, completely "Above the Law."

No, Bush himself is to blame for not gleaning the right advice from others. But we all know that it's really President Cheney come decision time.

[LizW]

59. BEST. SOUNDBITE. EVER. (n/t)

[0007]

63. Then is the bending end! I'm sick.

[indepat]

64. On what subject do Repugs not lie?

[hfojvt]

82. Exactly, that is what I find funny about the quote

It is like he says "if we do this, it will be the first time we have ever lied, so we cannot do this." It is like when Condi said "Please do not attack my integrity." How can she say that with a straight face? And Condi, how can I point out the fact that you have no integrity without attacking your alleged integrity?

[AuntiBush]

67. Who cares what Conservatives have to say!?!

NEVER vote REPUBLICAN again is right! Never will I ever, nor most all I know!

Here that Mr. President & all your followers!
Small Business Owners say NO TO REPUBLICANS - NEVER AGAIN!
BIG DOCTORS say NO to BUSH - NEVER VOTING REPUBLICAN AGAIN!
PROFESSORS/TEACHERS/FIRE DEPT.,/NURSES you name it. Oh no, blue and white collar workers I know say NEVER ever again will they vote REPUBLICAN.

EVERYONE I've met lately is disgusted. Some you'd have ruled out, but no, everyone is sick of it all.

[ralps]

68. I'm attempting to make a bumper sticker with the phrase "Never vote

for Republicans again --We lie" But I'm wondering if anyone knows which senior Republican Senator said that Thanks

[manly]

69. bad advice

just because someone gives you bad advice, you are not compelled to take it. what this bad-advice cop-out means is that Bush is incapable of distinguishing good advice from bad advice. This would mean that he is stupid. which, of course, he is--supremely.

[MadisonProgressive]

76. You beat me to it!

I was going to point that out too.

Bad advice <=> Bad intelligence

I'd say there is some bad intelligence, and he's sitting in the FREEKING OVAL OFFICE!

It's no wonder * didn't talk about this BEFORE the election...

[no_to_war_economy]

70. hurry to the batphone! get Karen Hughes to

save my ass says *

too late * - your toast and your legacy will be the split of the GOP

link: Hughes's Return Is a Blow for Rove

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27006-20...

[yurbud]

71. What would have been the right way to sell this rip off?

If we don't privatize Social Security, Al Qaeda will kill this puppy.

[lovuian]

72. Americans are Pissed!!!

and they are letting the Republicans know it!!!

[Kinkistyle]

73. Inability to discern good advice from bad advice = INCOMPETENCE

Think about it. Bush is ALWAYS screwing up from bad advice.

[Boo Boo]

74. Or, as Wesley Clark put it...

"Look, I'm not here to bash George Bush. He's a very unlearned and inexperienced man, and he's doing the best he can."

[Auntie Bush]

87. Wow! What a great comment! I missed and or forgot that.

[SillyGoose]

77. His competence as a leader needs to be questioned publicly

...President Bush has been taking bad advice on Social Security...

He has a history of relying on "bad advice". I realize that people like him think they are above it all and don't have to take responsibility for their actions - its easy to pass the buck to some patsy to take the rap. But...shouldn't the American people be holding his feet to the fire and demanding to know why he insists on surrounding himself with incompetent dolts who are obviously incapable of doing the jobs they were hired to do? Amazing to me that the incompetents don't have any consequences for their massive screw ups and some even receive medals and promotions for it. What kind of leader allows this gross incompetence in his advisors to go unchecked?

[ozone_man]

78. Bad advice my eye

Just like the Iraq war was based on bad advice. What bozos. They tried to prop up the stock market with S.S. funds, and it looks liked it is about to be spiked down their throats. The nationalistic card works well in war too a point, but Americans are a bit smarter when it comes to their pocket book.

[marcologico]

80. Funny how red-staters forget about "values" when it comes to their gravy

train.

[genieroze]

81. The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans

again -- we lie." For once they told the truth -- we lie. lol

[EVDebs]

83. If you can set up a private account (IRA or annuity) yourself.....

what do you need Bush's plan for in the first place ? The whole scenario is illogical...unless the Private Accounts are the Trojan Horse Carve-Out to the existing Social Security program that Dems and progressives are saying they are.

Why endanger the existing system with $2 trillion worth of 'carve-outs', money that has to come from somewhere else in the budget ? In fact, why increase the budget deficit in order to make things worse, not better ?

Republicans do lie. Period.

[Radio-Active]

85. How to fool people into trusting you..

Plainly talk about the horrible and ugly truth. Many people will assume you have nothing to hide - that you wouldn't actually say it if it were true... Con Artists do it all the time!

And so..

The senator said that is like telling voters, "Never vote for Republicans again -- we lie."

[VirtualTruth]

86. The US Government will go Bankrupt, NOT Social Security The Solution!

The US Government will go Bankrupt, NOT Social Security
Here is the Solution

Sean Lewis
February 3 2005

The US Government will go bankrupt, not Social Security. There I said it, but someone had to.

Bush is hiding the fact that his fiscal economic plan of tax cuts, tax refunds, deficit spending and pre-emptive war agenda has put the US on the verge of Bankruptcy.

The Social Security Trust Fund has a surplus of 1.8 Trillion Dollars invested in US Government Bonds earning interest. Social Security will not be issuing funds greater than it is taking in until 2018 or later. At that point Social Security should be able to begin to Redeem the 1.8 Trillion PLUS in US Government Bonds.

Does this sound insolvent to any one?

So what is the REAL issue?

The emperor has no clothes.

Bush has hidden the severity of the National Deficit and the National Debt by cooking the Government Books.

Bush has taken the Social Security Receipts we all pay every day in our paychecks and has replaced them with US Government IOU's. Understand, in and of itself there is nothing wrong with this. However, Bush has used this funds to hide the true depth of the Budget Deficit. When Bush calculates his Budget, he erroneously includes the Social Security Receipts. The Budget Surplus Bush inherited, which bought Bush the election when he promised to give it back to Americans; were the Social Security Receipts. In essence the tax cuts, and refund checks were financed by Social Security Receipts. Bush raided Social Security and gave the money disproportionately to the richest Americans, Buying the Election. In Doing this Bush Bankrupted Social Security doing a reverse Robin Hood, stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Bush replaced these funds with the US Government IOU's.

Those IOU's are representation of cash available to pay the Baby Boomers once they start retiring. When do they start retiring? In 3 years beginning 2008. The Baby Boomers will start cashing in those US Treasury Bonds or IOUs. Problem is, there is no money to pay back the IOUs.

You see the Treasury is running in the Red, we do not have the money to finance all of the Expenses of the US Government NOW! How will Bush find the funds to start paying off the Baby Boomers IOUs? By issuing more IOUs to someone else!

Think of it this way. You are a bank and depositors make monthly deposits for safe keeping. The bank however is not making enough money to pay it's bills, so it dips into the deposits and 'borrows' money with unsecured IOUs saying it will pay back the loans with interest once things turn around. Buts things do not turn around, they only get worse. To not pay the bills would bring ruin to the bank, so the bank 'borrows' even more money from the depositors! Now a vicious cycle has begun. Outwardly all is well, however one day the depositors begin to no longer make deposits, but begin to withdraw their funds with interest! Now the Bank faces not only a short fall to pay existing Bills because fewer funds are coming in, but also the amount going out has increased. The only way to make ends meet is to issue additional unsecured IOUs to individuals outside the Bank. As more people retire the greater the escalating unsecured IOUs grow. This is the house of cards Bush has built.

How has this happened?

Bush has not vetoed one single spending bill.

Bush has given tax cuts in a time history has shown taxes should be raised. We are at war, and in every instance of war in the past Presidents understood the importance of keeping the War Chest full to finance the Troops.

Believe it or not the Countries financing the American War on terrorism are the Chinese, the French, The Germans, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and many other countries that voted against the invasion of Iraq. How? They are buying the US Government Bonds that Bush is issuing to pay for the Deficit that Social Security is now financing.

Talk about hat in hand!

Bush needs to change Social Security because under the guise of reform Bush can 'borrow' funds to hide the impending financial incompetence of this Administration. If Bush does not 'reform' Social Security BEFORE 2008 the US citizens will see the Republican incompetence NAKED in it's raw ugly epochal squandering. Bush had everything a President could ask for, A strong economy, A strong low unemployment rate, strong GDP growth, A hard won Surplus. With this Bush could have paid BACK Social Security and the unfunded liability of Medicare, yet another 2008 issue that had a dirty sloppy overpriced band aide applied. Instead Bush has placed this the US on the slippery slope to financial ruin.

Bush needs to fix the real problem, The National Deficit and The National Debt. Bush needs to allow the ill advised tax cuts to sunset. If Bush does not deal with the real issue, Republicans being fiscally irresponsible, not only will Bush and the Republican Party go down in flames but so will the US dollar, the US standard of living, the US economy and the US.

OK now how do we solve this?

Social Security needs to be tweaked, but it is not broken.

For Social Security to continue paying out benefits all that needs to be done is this.

Increase the SS payroll deduction by 1/2 to 1%.

Increase the annual SS payroll deduction cutoff to $120,000.

Means test payout's to retirees.

Gradually increase the retirement age to 70.

Allow new workers entering the labor market to have the OPTION of having additional funds taken out of their payroll checks to be applied to the Private Accounts.

Investments in the Private Accounts are limited to these options:
Money Market
US Treasuries
INDU index fund
SPY index fund
QQQQ index fund
Gold/Silver/Platinum

All or any option in combination will keep SS solvent for decades to come. As it stands SS will continue for decades without and changes.

Time will tell all the Truth.

VT

Virtual Truth
Sean Lewis

[e-mail]
Founder Open Debate Forum
[e-mail]

We are Americans first. Not black or white, conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat. We are Americans first. Until this fact is understood we will be a nation divided and ineffective. We need to forget our differences and stop blaming each other for the errors of the past. We need to be non partisan about the future of this country. Our greatest enemy is from within. We have turned upon each other. . We need to change our old way of business as usual and be united for the common good. Which is, we are all Americans first.

[dave29]

91. Ken Lay got bad advice. Bernie Ebbers got bad advice.

Maybe this CEO Presidency thing isn't such a hot idea.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

92. Well, we won't have to vote for ANYBODY in the future because....

...after Herr Busch proclaims himself to be President for Life there won't be any need for voting anyway.

If the truth were known, we probably haven't been voting in the last TWO presidential elections...think about that for a moment.