U.S. to Ban Lighters on Flights

[Rose Siding]

The government will ban cigarette lighters on planes beginning in April but passengers can still tote common matches in carry-on bags for now, security officials said Monday.

The Transportation Security Administration, responding to a congressional order, said passengers cannot carry butane, battery powered or other lighters on themselves or in carry-on bags after April 14.

"By creating a policy to add lighters to the prohibited items, we are closing a potential vulnerability in air travel security," said David Stone, administrator of the security agency.

Wooden matches that can be struck on a hard surface are already banned but passengers will still be allowed to pack up to four matchbooks inside carry-on luggage, security officials said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60615-2005Feb28.html

[bemildred]

1. Ban passengers, that would be safest. nt

[tuvor]

2. Shoe bombers may now breathe a sigh of relief. n/t

[asthmaticeog]

3. OK, what exactly can lighters do that matches can't?

I completely don't get these arbitrary-seeming regs. Thank the fates I don't fly much.

Anyone wants to explain the diff, I'm willing to listen.

[buddysmellgood]

4. It's easier to make a small explosive with a lighter than with matches.

[asthmaticeog]

5. Really?

I'm intrigued. This sounds like exactly the sort of thing I should have known how to do all those years ago when I was an awful kid. Off to Google...

[buddysmellgood]

6. Don't hurt yourself. :)

[Rush1184]

49. Apparently the shoe bomber back in 2001 failed because...

The guy was using matches. They said then that if he had a lighter he would have pulled it off.

[Seabiscuit]

58. Exactly. If the shoe bomber had gone to the lavatory to light his shoe,

a matchbook would have been just as effective as a Bic. Man, was he one dumbass mofo.

[OneBlueSky]

7. yeah, let's ban lighters . . . then we can divert attention . . .

from all of the REAL threats that aren't being addressed, e.g. inspection of cargo entering our ports . . . these people are idiots . . .

[sweetheart]

8. Next the'll ban pens and pencils

For a trained assassin, a pen is as deadly as a knife. A lighter, by
contrast, is not lethal, even if exploded with a detonator. Try it
some time, throw a plastic lighter in to a campfire and watch it "puff"
... a non-event.

Piano wire as well.... the list goes on of dual-use sillyness that
ultimately comes down to whether individual passenger citizens of our
free country are to be treated like criminals stripped of the
right to the presumption of innocense.

I presume they'll ban cannabis smoking pipes as well. This lighter
thing is a bummer, as its harder to smoke cannabis before the flight
with matches. ;-)

I look forward to the day when airport smoking lounges are exclusively
reserved for cannabis smokers mellowing out for being trapped in a
chair for several hours.

[Morose]

37. I bet wire rim glass frames could be used

for a sharp pokey object...so could the wire from braces...

I bet if someone broke a coffee mug in First class that could be sharp...hmm how about the glass in my wristwatch? Or maybe a broken piece of plastic off of some suitcase trim...hmm or maybe just really strong fingers...yes those are definately a threat...

and Laptops...you could definately bludgeon someone to death with a laptop. Some of those things are really heavy. Someone better send Homeland Security a list of all these other dangerous objects so that we can all be protected from every possibile threat.

[mermaid]

38. Better Idea

File the edge of a common credit card that is out of date. You can make a really nice sharp edge. If someone wants to create trouble on a plane, believe me, we cannot stop them from doing so by banning certain items. They will come up with another way.

Fact is...there is no way a plane is EVER going to get hijacked again. not after 9/11. Passengers are not going to sit docilely and follow orders, when they know damn well they may be flown into the side of a building, anyway. No...someone starts goofy shit on a plane now, and they are likely to have fifty passengers rush them. And the terrorists have to know this, too.

Fifty against five armed guys? I bet the fifty still win! Besides...remember Richard Reid? The shoe bomber? the one that NOW, three years later...is supposedly leading to this ban? Who stopped Richard Reid and contained him after his failed attempt with his little shoe bomb? THE PASSENGERS DID!!!

So all this TSA bullshit is just that...bullshit. It accomplishes nothing, and just makes air travel into the pain in the ass it has become, instead of the pleasure it once was. I used to fly four, five, even six times a year...now I can't STAND flying, and will do anything I can to avoid it. Not because i'm afraid...but because it's just too much of a freaking hassle. And, besides, my Toyota will never auger into a cornfield at 600 MPH!!!

[Rush1184]

50. That is why it is good to make brownies for you flight...

It is great for those long-haul flights, and is better (and probably healthier) than aircraft food!


As for cannabis smoking pipes, they are allready basically illegal to fly with (even checked) as transporting them accross state lines falls under fereral paraphanelia laws.

[sweetheart]

55. How about checked into/outof the US?

Thanks for the details on pipes and whatnot. That said, i don't
transport them across state lines... just national lines... and i
generally clean them totally before flying, so they are simply pieces
of metal/clay with holes in them.... maybe i like to smoke my chewing
tobacco. ;-)

Thanks for the brownie recommendation... i'll take that to heart...
this smoking cannabis in airports thing reminds me of being in junior
high and copping a jay.... :-)... and brownies requires less dodgey
snarfing around.

[Conservativesux]

9. Ban on Lighters in Air Travel

Ban on Lighters in Air Travel

By THE NEW YORK TIMES

Published: March 1, 2005

WASHINGTON, Feb. 28 - Airplane passengers are going to have to leave their cigarette lighters home, under a policy announced on Monday by the Transportation Security Administration.

The ban, which takes effect April 14, will also prohibit lighters inside checked baggage for safety reasons. Passengers will still be allowed to carry matches, at least for now.

"The ban is not an attack on smokers," said Yolanda Clark, a spokeswoman for the agency. "This is a serious security measure that is intended to reduce security vulnerabilities."

The ban is required under a provision of the intelligence overhaul bill that Congress passed late last year. It was motivated by the case of the so-called shoe bomber, Richard C. Reid, who tried to light an improvised explosive device while on a plane to the United States from Paris in December 2001.

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/01/politics/01lighters.html?

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. So Richard Reid couldn't have lit that shoe bomb

with matches?

This makes no sense.

[truthisfreedom]

12. he tried, and failed.

i fail at lighting things (like my fireplace) with pocket matches all the time. they just won't burn long enough to light much more than a cigarette when you are inhaling (boosting oxygen at the tip).

[Extend a Hand]

16. yeah but a can of hairspray

and a butane is probably more dangerous than a can of hairspray and a match. :)

[inslee08]

31. Preferably you ban lighters and matches

But this is a start.

FWIW, there was a piece about this in Fahrenheit 9/11, where Moore said outright that the tobacco lobby was the reason they weren't banned.

The banning of lighters is a good thing, but it certainly is not enough.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. But I am a smoker

and I want to have a cigarette when I get off the plane. Are they going to have lighters and matches available for us in the terminals?

[truthisfreedom]

11. presumably butane lighters can reach a temperature much higher than

matches, and certainly for a much longer time. modern matches go out after a few seconds (they're treated with a chemical that's just beyond the head of the match.)

i've been complaining about this for a long time... i guess the tobacco lobby is finally losing its grip on our country's security.

[MrSlayer]

13. I think I'll set up a lighter stand outside of the baggage claim.

I'll get a bunch of cheap lighters with "Welcome to Philly" on them or something. Make a bundle.

[mermaid]

14. What A Fucking AWESOME Idea!!

I might try that in Allentown!! And Newark!!

Shit, it's brilliant!

The first thing these people who are smokers are going to want is something to light their cigarette with!

Speaking as a pathetic, drug-addicted smoker myself, I know after a long plane flight, they very first place I want to go is the smoking area...FAST!

[Extend a Hand]

15. I'll be your customer

:) that is a good idea.

[ConcernedCanuk]

23. Umm - they'll probly make a law against that too - -

.
.
.

Y'all ain't in the "Land of the Free" anymore

Dincha notice? :shrug:

[mermaid]

40. Good Point. Bummer.

Too bad. I remember what freedom was like. too bad my niece and nephew will never know what it is like to grow up in a free country. :cry:

[napi21]

24. Believe me, I thought of that as soon as they started talking about this.

I know when I fly, one of the first things I do when I leave the terminal is light up a cigarett. Since they are at least permiting book matches in your carry-on, that pretty much scraps our idea.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. That's A Good Idea

Just oustide of security, as people are leaving the airport. Can't buy them in the gift shops.

Actually, this might be a way for homeless people to make a few extra bucks, too! Lots of airports let homeless people stay warm by staying in the underground areas anyway. Might be a way for them to make enough change to eat. Wouldn't do any harm to anyone, and the demand has been created by HSD.
The Professor

[Dogmudgeon]

17. Are bombs still allowed?

I just want to know how to pack for my next trip.

--p!
Make Mine Semtex™

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. Um...what about international flights, where smoking is allowed?

Guess this is going to give the airlines another way to make money off of their passengers...leave US airspace, the captain comes on the intercom: "We are now in international airspace. Those of our passengers who wish to smoke may do so; lighters and matches are available for purchase from your flight attendant."

[trapper914]

19. Good Point

...and wasn't Richard Reid on an international flight?

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. Yep...

he was flying out of Heathrow, if I remember correctly.

[Rush1184]

51. Yea...

One of my ex's was studying in france at the time and was supposed to be on that flight, but she missed it, luckily.

[Renew Deal]

21. I'm pretty sure that you can't smoke on any flights leaving or coming to

the US.

Edit: I just checked it. I think it's a personal policy, not law.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. It's at the discretion of the airline.

Some allow smoking outside of US airspace , especially on longer international flights (to Asia or Australia, for instance).

[mermaid]

41. Well, United Doesn't

I know THAT for a fact, because I suffered a ten-hour flight from Seattle to Tokyo without a goddam cigarette. by the time we hit the tarmac in Tokyo, I was ready to push, shove, kill...whatever it took to get my ass to a smoking area, just as fast as I possibly could!

[northzax]

28. um, there are no airlines

that fly to or from the united states that permit smoking. I know of only four that do at all, all banned from the US (Cubana, Air Algeria, JET and a Bolivian airline)

so that's actually a non-issue.

The people who are going to make money are the lighter manufacturers. Now every time smokers go on a trip, they have to buy a new lighter at every destination (you cannot put them in your check through baggage either) that's annoying.

[mermaid]

42. Yep. I Can See A New Job Opportunity Here

Can you see a "Smoking Room Valet"...nice uniform, spends his whole day in the designated Smoking Lounge of the airport, and people come in..."Care for a light, sir?" gotta make sure he has the proper English-butler accent, of course...

Jesus Christ...at what point did my country go out to lunch without me noticing?

[Rush1184]

52. But you can check all the gun ammo you want!

[inslee08]

32. I'm pretty sure that smoking

smoking is banned on all flights that originate or finish in the United States, but I could be wrong. Hence, the only issue would be on flights wholely outside of the US, over which the FAA (or whomever) would not have jurisdiction anyway.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jimbo S]

26. This was mentioned in F9/11

Weapons such as pocket knives et al were banned after 9-11, but the government still allowed two lighters due to the urging of corporate tobacco. Ban the things that can harm us unless Corporate America objects.

[bling bling]

27. Nothing like more inside the box thinking.

I hate that expression but it applies so well I had to use it.

Average americans being strip-searched, humiliated, and stripped of possessions to board airlines so they can visit family and attend business functions.

In the mean-time, the actual threats being drawn up probably won't even have anything to do with airlines.

How far is this going to go? By the time Patriot Act v.5.1 comes out Americans won't even be allowed to leave their houses except to go to work.

[mermaid]

43. No, No...That's Patriot Act 4.1

Patriot 5.1 is when they just put all of us in The Matrix. You gotta keep up with the times, dude.

[ucmike]

30. that makes sense

remember on 9/11 when the hijackers used their lighters to take over the airplanes and force their way into the cockpits. then used their lighters to crash the planes into the wtc and pentagon.

geez...how quickly you people forget.

[northzax]

33. oh, you naive sucker

everyone knows they used matches, but the powerful matchbook lobby kept that under wraps and allowed everyone to think it was lighters.

sheesh, don't just believe the MM hype, will ya?

[Neverarepublican]

34. Another little step on our way to a total Police State

[Conservativesux]

35. "Ver are you papers please" coming to a town near you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. The article I saw on the news this morning

said this ban is only for butane and Zippo lighters, not the disposable kinds most smokers use.

[mermaid]

44. Wrong.

It's on ALL lighters.
I know. I just recently flew. And they wanted to take my butane lighter away from me. This was mid-February. And they let me keep it because it was not a "blue torch" the kind that produces a flame that cannot be seen, and is much hotter. Mine produced an ordinary yellow flame, so they let me keep it.

But I was told by the TSA guy that beginning Feb 15, ALL lighters would be banned. ALSO, no matches thru Austin-Bergstrom. The matches were a thing that some airports were going to ban, also...whereas some would let you keep matches.

doesn't surprise me Austin-Bergstrom would ban matches, too...after all, they want to shoot you for smoking in this town!

[mattclearing]

39. And this accomplishes?

Anybody???

[barb162]

47. not being able to start fires on planes? like starting one in the lav?n/t

[mattclearing]

48. Not if you can have matches.

Did you miss that part?

[barb162]

54. no; I can't see why one flammable device is okay and not others

all flammable devices should be banned

[Chicago Democrat]

45. How stupid is this? I think its pretty damn stupid!!!

Where's Osama Bin Laden? Who attacked us on 9/11?

[barb162]

46. if you can put lighters in carry-on, you can do they exact same

aount of damage as you can if it is in your pocket. Ban them from the cabins, I think. Lighters only should be allowed in cargo.

[Rush1184]

53. They are banned in cabins and checked bags...

only two packs of matches can be kept by a person in their carry on bag

[Behind the Aegis]

57. What is next?

I don't fly often, thank goodness! But, it is getting to the point, where this country is going to be so fucking paranoid, that the only way you are going to get on the plane is to be butt-ass naked! I mean really, you can make a weapon out of ANYTHING! The last time I flew, I looked around and I could see all kinds of things that could have been used as a weapon. Soon it won't be "please take off your shoes" it will be "please lift your boob/flab/arm and spread those cheeks...the lower ones!"