new CNN poll numbers -- * sinking

[grasswire]

I'll post a link when it comes up on CNN.com.

Brand new poll numbers are out. George has dropped 17 points with men in one month!

[grasswire]

1. all categories are dropping

down to 50 percent who consider Iraq worthwhile.

Negative on the economy up to 57 percent.

And Clark polls 3 points ahead of Bush now!

[grasswire]

3. the favorability drop among men...

...is attributed by Bill Schneider to jobs. The jobs issue is very big with men. Seventeen favorability points gone in a month!!

[aquart]

48. Gosh. Jobs. Who knew?

[Kahuna]

2. The best news, Clark BEATS bush and tops Dean by 9 pts!

Clark 22%, Dean 13%, the other guys, "bye bye."

[_NorCal_D_]

4. This is excellent!

bush is toast!

[jedicord]

6. "We're Taking Back the Flag"

Even better than Dean's "Taking Back America"!

Perfect!

[Eloriel]

65. Not even close

It's a shame you don't understand what "Taking Back America" means in the Deam Campaign. It's far more than just winning an election or even "taking back the flag," another theme he borrowed from Dean.

Eloriel

[Mz Pip]

8. I thought Clark got off to

a shaky start. If this is what a shaky start looks like, I'll take it. If the debates go well, we may see the numbers widen.

MzPip

[Lori Price CLG]

54. If sinking, Bush-Rove will do more terrorism + steal the 2004 s-election.

UNFORTUNATELY, I don't think Maggot Face is toast. I think he will steal the 2004 election AFTER carrying out another 9-11 terrorist attack on the US.

-Lori

[Section_43]

66. If he were to carry out

or assist in another attack he would truly be an idiot. that would do nothing but prove that the country is not safe. it would be his death knell.

[Bertrand]

5. I posted this in the dupe thread

Bush is really in trouble. Clark has been in the race for a week and is already beating him. Great news for his fundraising too.


Good news for Dean is that he only trails Bush by 3 points, so his supporters should take comfort in that.

[underpants]

7. Ooops sorry about the dupe

Yes it seems that W is in deep and knowing him he will ask for a bigger shovel.

[Dookus]

9. No worries...

on the dupes. Three threads were started within two minutes. Perfectly reasonable considering the importance of the story.

We sure have some fast people here on DU!

- Dookus

[Bertrand]

13. I dont forgive you for your dupe!

[Vikingking66]

12. ah good

I've been happy about Clark, but I'm a Dean supporter so I feel better now.

I want BOTH of them to win, hopefully with Dean at the top of the ticket - if Dean got nothing for months of innovative campaigning that helped to bring Bush down and brought thousands of new people into the party, I'd be sad.

[caledesi]

23. VK66....I would be sad too. My dream ticket is Dean/Clark

[Vikingking66]

26. yeah...I think that would be kick ass n/t

[reprobate]

39. I'd have to agree if the ticket were flipped. But either way is OK.

It's ABB for ME!

[ozone_man]

58. Give it time.

Let Dean build his name recognition nationally, beyond the key primary states. I agree, Dean/Clark is more palatable to me. I don't want a general as president. Let's bring our soldiers home and fix the economy, and the rest of the mess our country is in. I'm tired of this war stuff.

[creativelcro]

62. guys c'mon, THINK

The latest polls are total BS!!! THINK... Clark got all this exposure, probably thanks to the Clinton engine, and now the polls show him ahead of Bush. People don't know shit about Clark. They just heard the name and heard that he's the latest guy. Just wait a little before taking the polls seriously... -CV

[VolcanoJen]

70. I really feel that you're underestimating Clark here.

It's naive to say that Americans don't know anything about Clark. During the entire build-up and waging of war in Iraq, Clark's face was on CNN nearly every night, picking and picking away at the Bush Doctrine. He was a mere television commentator, and yet Tom Delay felt it necessary to call him a "blow-dried Napoleon."

During the NATO-sponsored Kosovo war, not too terribly long ago, Clark's face was also on television every evening. When the Dayton Peace Accords made the news every night, there he was again.

People recognize this guy... he's no outsider, he's no newcomer. He was the former Supreme Allied Commander of Europe, which is essentially the highest post in the United States Army, save for the Army representative to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Again, I think it's extremely naive to think that this didn't register with more than a few Americans.

Clark is a force to be reckoned with, but he's not the only force. It's a wave, a push, a burst of energy within every anti-Bush person in America.

Love Clark or hate him, but one thing's for certain: his entry into the race preceded, by days, the lowest approval rating in the Bush presidency thus far.

How is that a bad thing, exactly?

[0007]

10. Shit! ya ain't seen nuthin' yet

We got two majors to go. One with snecky dickie and the other with the general attorney. And I'm not counting junior's speech at the UN tomorrow.

[rocktivity]

11. That explains this:

Bush to Tell U.N. He Made Right "Decision" on Iraq

and this:
new CNN poll numbers -- * sinking

Between his defending his honor with the help of Britt Hume and his not taking any crap from "them dern furnniers" at UN, he's hoping for a bump in the polls.


rocknation

[Vikingking66]

14. yah, my guess is that'll work as well as his last speech

Um...we fucked up. We're not sorry we screwed with you.
Help us out.

Response: Screw you. Give us control of Iraq or it's
no dice.

I don't wanna.

Response: Fine, we'll wait until 2005.

[caledesi]

24. ROTFLMAO! Now that is funny!

[FlaGranny]

40. I don't believe he can get a bump

anymore. I really believe people are realizing that the emperor has no clothes. Once you realize nothing is there, how can you imagine it back? More people are beginning to see what most of us have seen from the beginning. There just is no substance there in this wannabe president.

[ewagner]

15. YoooHooo!

Bush approval down to 50% ON CNN NO LESS!!!



edited for being an idiot!

[aquart]

50. And Jennings leads with a terrorism threat.

Coincidence?

[Vikingking66]

16. link

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-22-bush...

[grasswire]

17. thanks...

...and a direct link to the polling data

http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2003-09-...

[grasswire]

19. questions.....

....17 and 18 are an interesting slight contradiction.

But for the first time, more do NOT think Hussein was involved with 9-11 than do. 43 yes, 50 no.

[aquart]

52. Looks like Ashcroft's PR tour didn't work.

[reprobate]

42. "Bush's drop is typical for first-term presidents."

NO. Bush's drop in the polls is typical for ONE term presidents.

[Vikingking66]

18. more good news

20% less people think Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11.
Only 43% percent left to whack on the head.

[grasswire]

20. GMTA

crosspost! I think we should get a prize for crossposts.

[Vikingking66]

21. is that like jinxing? If so, you owe me a coke, or I owe you n/t

[ignatius]

22. Good God, after Bush, Condi and Rummy said there was NO

evidence of the connection, what kind of hosehead thins there still is? Mind boggling.

[Vikingking66]

25. it's all in how you say it

They said it like this:

"THERE ARE no WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ"
"WE HAVE not FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ"

not to mention the many times before they pulled the
old biolab on a truck switcheroo.

[Dookus]

27. the other interesting thing...

Is Hillary's approval is at 54% with 40% disapproval.

For all the people who keep claiming that Hillary's WAY too divisive, seems like she's a helluva lot less divisive than Shrub!

[Ratty]

28. I wish DemocraticUnderground

would put a big percentage on it's homepage showing the moron's approval rating and keep it there till he's booted out next November. And a graph so we can watch it plummet.

Who do we make suggestions to?

[Dookus]

29. You can suggest that

in the Ask the Administrator's forum.

[Minstrel Boy]

30. His strength may be waning, but he's still a

Category 4 Whistle Ass.

[grasswire]

37. Category 4 Whistle Ass

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

That's great. I love it.

[zekeson]

31. Bush* is used up

He brought nothign to the table for the average American and his pre 9-11 polls showed that. He has used 9-11, war, tax cuts, and fear to keep his polls at semi-respectability. He's got nothing left, he's like a lousy pitcher who throws nothing but junk for 5 innings and everyone has him figured out. He's got no fast ball, nothing but tricks, and those won't carry him for the whole game - and his manager, Rove, should've known better than to play him at all.

[RamboLiberal]

32. Wolf Blitzer's Webpage on Clark Surge

<snip>

CNN Polling Director Keating Holland says a number of factors contribute to Clark's popularity. "Part of it is his resume, part of it is his announcement bounce, part of it may simply be that he's a fresh face. He is, after all, the flavor of the month."

This from a candidate without huge name recognition. Nearly half the general public surveyed is not familiar with Gen. Clark.

Still, political experts say Clark's catapult is not the most surprising thing about this poll. "Bush is sinking, Clark is surging," says Bill Schneider, a CNN senior political analyst. "Clark picked exactly the right moment to make his announcement."

Indeed, the same CNN/USA-Today/Gallup Poll shows President Bush falling fast. According to this poll, the president has a 50% approval rating, the lowest of his presidency and a 10% drop from last month.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/wolf.blitzer.reports/

[underpants]

33. MSNBC:40% don't know who Clark is also mentioned "waffling"

That was from the Newsweek reporter.

Of course vagueness is NEVER accepted by the liberal media....no not EVER!

[HPLeft]

34. John Kerry Leads Bush 48%-47%

According to the same CNN poll. We now know what electability means - Clark or Kerry. If we want to win, that's the surest way to go.

[Vikingking66]

36. at this rate

We could nominate a dead donkey, a real one, and he'd win.
I'm pleased by Bush's fall because it means that we can
stop this damned electibility bitching match and talk about
which one we like best.

[creativelcro]

63. THIS IS THE SILLIEST THING

I HAVE EVER HEARD...

[DemExpat]

35. WOOfrigginHOOOOOOOO

Keep on sinkin'.......



DemEx

[Vikingking66]

38. Hey Clark supporters

Please explain why you are taking a big chunk out of Gephardt, but none from Dean? It flies in the face of all predictions heretofor. As a Dean supporter who was majorly pissed at Dick's Gingrich comment, I'm happy as a clam on payday, but I'm confused too.

[kodi]

64. let me 'splain it to you then. clark, not dean appeals 2 blue collar types

and those blue collar types were gepthard's traditional supporters, after all gepthart has stronger union support than all the other candidates combined.

actually as much as i like what dean is doing, with some of his positions and especially his grass roots activism, he is appealing more to educated folks than the high school educated working class, admittedly, these folks will probably vote for ABB because of the economy, but it is a concern to be dealt with by the dean camp, viz., that he and his movement not be seen as merely the birkenstock wing of the democratic party.

i can tell you right out that while blue collar workers should side with the democratic party because of its stance for worker rights and job generation, there is under the surface significant resentment by the working class with many of the things dean's more educated supporters say and do. it is as much a "sub"-class war as it is a cultural one.

we, progressive democrats who support any candidate, should be very cautious with this because george wallace and richard nixon and ronald regean exploited this.

[Vikingking66]

67. What exactly have we said and done that's so horrible?

I'm a college student and a Dean supporter, and I don't think I say or do anything that should cause resentment among working class Democrats.
Dean's platform is very attuned to working class folks- he's one of few candidates who have made specific proposals on rural development, he's put forward ideas on regaining American manufacturing jobs through renegotiating NAFTA, he's called for raising the minimum wage. Dean's a governor from a rural state with an A rating from the NRA.

So again, why does Clark specifically draw from Gephardt and not from Dean? Clark has been portrayed by the DraftClark people as a liberal anti-war candidate, but he's not taking from Dean's base.

BTW- Dean has a slight edge over Gephardt in union households in Iowa, which is why Gephardt went on the warpath against him.

[kodi]

69. easy, short term priorities count more with these folks,

and you might not personally be a problem, we'll see, but listen over the next months and you will hear a subtle form of classism creep into the way arguments are framed and assumptions made by the dean campaign that do not take into account as priorities the concern and issues most important to the high school graduate or drop out blue collar workers. they do not weigh environmental factors, reproductive rights, tort reform, removing god from the pledge of allegience, and government intrusion in personal lives in general as much as they do employment. in the eyes of them, true or not, liberals are thought more to care about wood owls and darter snails than jobs.

if you want to see the dynamics in action just look at the water rights issues in the far northwest where farmers and fishers and the concomitent industries who employ thousands are upset that the salmon are given more concern than their jobs when the government orders water releases on dammed rivers.

from the bottom of my heart, listen, no grown man or woman who has worked decades in a factory, construction work, or driving a truck wants to listen to a college student who has never worked physically hard for as many years as they have talk to them about political positions of candidates. they are not respected for having an informed opinion about adult life and what it is. that is just the way it is. when you are older, you will understand that this is true. it does mean that the college person is a bad person, just that the blue collar worker does not respect a priori an opinion from the young college student like the opinion from one years older who has lived as an adult for years.

when you deal with older, blue collar working class workers do not tell them what a candidate will do for them, because they have heard it ALL before. what is necessary is to approach the dialogue by asking them what they want from the candidate, then show them the dean position. do this and you can win them over, dont do it, and they will vote for bush, because they will think the deanies are a bunch of arrogant young people who have never worked for a living.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. Wolf Blitzer mentions an "Ike Factor"

Which promted me to suggest a button in the "I like Ike" fashion:

WE SAY WES

I hereby place the aforementioned sentence in the public domain. Feel free to make buttons at will.

A gift from Image

[DemExpat]

43. We Want Wes.....

sounds good too....

DemEx

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

44. www.www.com? Someone register it, if possible!

On edit: Oh crap, already taken. Never mind.

Image

[Jackpine Radical]

55. I Wike Wes

--if only for the sake of the acronym:
IWW

[roguevalley]

51. How about "yes on wes"?

*

[kskiska]

45. What's so funny is all the Repug talking heads

are coming out and saying that this president does not live by polls. They only say that when he's down. I wish Paul Begala had cornered this guy and asked just what Karl Rove's job is, then, if no one at the White House cares about polls.

[samsingh]

46. whore logic

what were the whore's using to say 'this very popular pResident' except the polls.

more repug hypocrasy and bullshit.

[carolinayellowdog]

47. Best of all: "Strongly disapprove" largest group at 32%

and having reached that point, no one is turning back.

[tibbiit]

49. My take on why the Brit Hume interview and the UN speech

They wont work for bush this time at all to raise the polls in his favor.

Because...
Majority of people are now thinking Iraq = Viet Nam.
Majority of people both before the war and now thought the UN should have been involved.

Bush's Flyboy tough guy bring um on act works only when everything is going his way! It has anti-effect now that the majority is thinking diplomacy isnt such a bad thing after all... I expect his polls to drop again after the big speech tomorrow... I bet we will be able to watch the dow tank at the same time!

So Bush, get tough with the UN, it wont make you bounce in polls.
Brit Hume only will work for the hold-outs who already love bush no matter what.

Now if the dems just come out with some good mainstream media jabs in the next few days it will be extra sweet
tib

[Zhade]

53. I LOVE this one:

16. Based on what you have heard or read about the events in Iraq over the past few weeks, do you think that for all intents and purposes, the war with Iraq is over, or not?

_______________Yes, over---No, not---No opinion
2003 Sep 19-21-------10---------89------------1
2003 May 5-7---------41---------58------------1

That's a 31% swing. People have really noticed, despite the media's efforts, that our soldiers are taking it hard, and that it's not just "isolated incidents" after the fall of Baghdad.

Bastard traitor White House fucks.

[aeon flux]

56. The Repugs don't give a sh*t if they get re-elected or not

they got what they wanted, which was to loot the once plentiful national surplus dry and replace it with a massive national debt. They stuff their pockets, we get the bill.

The Repugs know there is probably little chance that * will get re-elected now, so they're M.O. is to liberate middle-class taxpayers of as much of their money as possible while the fox is still guarding the henhouse. They don't need to win another term. The Repugs have left a lifetime of economic chaos in their wake in just two short years. And they still got another year to go! Another $87 billion here, another $100 billion there for Cheney and his friends. The charlatans aren't done yet!

The Repugs and their Democratic enablers have left a path of economic destruction that will be felt for decades to come. The pain will be felt long after * is out of office, regardless of who wins the election.

[MsLeopard]

57. Wow -- well said.

I entirely agree with your assessment. It will take generations to overcome the incredible devastation inflicted on this nation. My children and grandchildren will be paying the price. These bastards don't need the White House for another term, and hopefully enough voters will turn out that the election cannot be stolen or rigged.

By the way, welcome to DU!

[grasswire]

61. they didn't get the crown jewels yet...

...which are the judiciary appointees. The GOP didn't get everything it wanted.

BUT the Bush clique got what IT wanted. (They may not even have cared about the judiciary.)

The Bush clique got gazillions of dollars looted directly from the pockets of American families. Money laundering.

They made money breaking Iraq. They made money attacking afghanistan. They're making money rebuilding Iraq. They gambled the presidency on it. Even if they lose, they already won.

[dusty64]

59. Considering this is a gallup poll

this is good news indeed. Wonder what the latest numbers will show from less rightwing biased pollsters? rove must be shitting a brick.

[osaMABUSh]

60. Remember when only an 'unnamed' Dem could compete with *?

Just a month or so ago * handily beat every named Dem.

"Now 49 percent said they would vote for Clark, compared with 46 percent for Bush. Each of the four other major Democratic candidates came within three points of Clark's showing in a hypothetical head-to-head race with the president, the poll found. Kerry narrowly outpaced the president, 48-percent to 47-percent. Bush held a slim lead over Dean (49 to 46 percent), Gephardt (48 to 46 percent) and Lieberman (48 to 47 percent)."

God is * toast or what?

[tibbiit]

68. I hope he is

But I wont believe it till the day after the 2004 election is certified.
I think they have gotten what they want, as you all say... but they are so thin skinned that losing will really be hard for their sense of history books They freak if called wimps, and they are the wimpyiest men I have ever seen!

THeir motto is What ever it takes.
If they see thay are losing, they will stop at nothing to get what they want for their place in history.

Either Father and Son Winners seperated by a "clinton years fluke" or LOSERS, the SECOND father-son presidents to be one termers!

Thats why to me BBV is so important. Otherwise no matter what, they win.
I viscerally despise them.
tib