Iraq Withdrawal Date Would Be Mistake-Sen. Clinton

[cal04]

Setting a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq would offer a "green light" to the insurgency there and could undermine the fledgling Iraqi government, U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said on Sunday.

"I think it would be a mistake," she said on NBC's "Meet the Press" program. "We don't want to send a signal to the insurgents, to the terrorists, that we are going to be out of here at some date certain."

"I think that would be like a green light to go ahead and just bide your time," the New York Democrat said. The Bush administration has emphasized the need to train Iraqi forces to handle security but has declined to set any timetable for a U.S. withdrawal.

Last month, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said President Bush needed to spell out "an exit strategy" for Iraq, while Democratic Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts said the United States should aim to pull out all troops as early as possible next year.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7682004&src=rss/domesticNews

[LinuxInsurgent]

1. another one for those '08 Clinton worshippers

she's not the messiah folks...she's a DLC centrist establishment Democratic socialite of the upper-class rich of this nation.

She's not with the people...she's not concerned with doing "the right thing"...and people should stop placing faith in her to "lead us out of the wilderness".

and Mrs. Clinton forgets that those insurgents will be there when they do leave...it's not like by not announcing the date, they are going to give up because they never know when the U.S. is leaving.

Clinton, in a circular way, is actually revealing the unassailable logic of the Iraq War (which dictates that the insurgency will win). Sooner or later, the U.S. will have to leave...the patience of the Shiites has worn thin..and only through their moderation has the United States even been able to stay in Iraq. If Sen. Clinton thinks that the U.S. will have a comfortable stay in Iraq until the time to leave...she's crazy.

[madrchsod]

4. no shit..she was a repug during her

high school years, i guess she really hasn`t moved very far from her roots

[Gyre]

7. Can I have an "amen"?

She more of the same garbage we've been throwing at them and losing with.

Gyre

[KittyWampus]

12. Hillary Clinton Is Garbage?

[aneerkoinos]

26. No

She's Stinking Pile of Filth.

[OKthatsIT]

27. amen!

she and billy boy are probably making too much money on iraq...look at Diane Feinstein and her hubby.

[Zhade]

56. Indeed...let's examine her 2004 contributions, via OpenSecrets.org...

Why look, she took money from the PACs of both General Electric and Northrop Grumman.

Gee, there couldn't be any conflict of interest between those wanting to continue the war and receiving "defense" contractor money at the same time, right?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/memberprofile.asp?cid=N00000019&cycle=2004&expand=D03

[mazzarro]

29. Amen - there!

Hillary is a sure disappointment these days - IMHO.

[papau]

52. man - do we spin? - the Hill comment was in favor of an exit plan but with

no date certain for any aspect of that plan.

I for one would like to hear about the Bush exit plan - since I have heard nothing except "when the time is right and they are able to stand on their own"

no date certain does not mean not putting dates on hoped for project completion moments

It just means no date certain.

[sendero]

53. A bigger mistake..

... would be nominating her to represent us in 2008. We can do a lot better.

[0007]

64. I think so too!

Would like to hear her say bring the troops home now.

[SheepBootHero]

68. Have we pulled all our troops from Germany, Japan, Korea, Bosnia etc

Why would the last war be the first to pull the troop? Where's the outrage about all the troops we still have in place from decades old wars?

Critical thought seems to elude many in these modern times.

[Crunchy Frog]

71. The difference is that we don't have wars

going on in those countries. For the most part, we just have troops stationed in those countries with the consent of completely sovereign governments.

The difference in Iraq is that we have an actual ongoing combat situation. We also invaded that country illegitimately.

If you want to get outraged about having troops stationed in Germany or Japan, you're perfectly free to though.

I agree with you about critical thought.

[Voltaire99]

69. Hillary Clinton: war criminal.

Her whole-hearted embrace of the slaughter in Iraq places her on equal moral footing with Powell, Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush.

It is one thing to have been grotesquely wrong about Iraq, as Hillary was from the start. But to compound that failure by continuing, in the face of all evidence, to support this murderous war...

...well, Hillary, you're simply a collaborator.

[CindyDale]

2. "We need to make sure that this new government in Iraq can succeed,"

she said. "There can be no doubt that it is not in America's interests for the Iraqi government, the experiment in freedom and democracy, to fail."

Geez, I hate to say this, but it sounds as though she's living on some other planet from the rest of us. This was an experiment in greed.

[cthrumatrix]

28. it's all bullshit ... she and others are part of the eltie -- there is no

exit

[bluestateguy]

3. Oooooh!!! She sure sounds tough!!!

Sorry Hill, no matter how hard you try the Freepers/Dittoheads/AngryWhiteMen will never believe you can be an American Margaret Thatcher.

However, you will succeed at alienating Democratic primary voters with this kind of rhetoric.

[mitchtv]

20. just alienated 1, but I was on my way anyway

Sorry Hill,I will vote for a Dem.(Anti occupation)

[jrthin]

24. Count me as #2.

I voted for her, but I will sit on my vote next year. I've grown to seriously dislike her as a result of her stand on many policies.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue to the bone]

8. Pure and simple, Dean needs to be making policy! n/t

[leftchick]

6. 1500 Dead US Soldiers is NOT enough to bring freedom to Iraq

Lets make it tens of thousands in order to further democracy in the Middle East. Because it is worth it!

Is Chelsea all signed up to go?

[Barkley]

44. "$150 billion is NOT enought to bring freedom to Iraq"!!!!!!

So Bush is asking for $81 billion more. Meanwhile
we go deeper into debt and our own public infrastructure
decays.

Boy are stupid people.

[Malva Zebrina]

9. Let's see

she votes to give Bush, in spite of his fascist tendencies, a blank check to invade a sovereign country. He does it, screws it up, murders one hundred thousand inno9cent civilians and nothing out of her mouth re that slaughterhouse. Now, the ones whom have been murdered and the houses that have been levelled and the slaughter that has been perpetrated with Hillary Clinton complicit in the horrors that went on, seek to defend their homes and their families and she, incredibly, places blame on them. Further, whether anyone noticed or not, she made sure she dragged "God" into it when she was just appalled that these insurgents attacked people "at prayer". Too slick for me, Hillary. I have had enough of this from Bush and his fascism.

She votes to install a known liar, one who lies under oath , to be our representative abroad and never questions a thing about the lies, and she votes to install Dr. Torture Gonzales. I assume she will vote for Negroponte also.

She is also co sponsoring a bill for election reform with, of all people, Barbara Boxer,and some others, who is a real Democrat, which looks to me like Hillary is trying to steal some of Boxer's obvious popularity.

This all gives me a sour taste in my mouth.

[Blue to the bone]

11. She leaves me with a sour taste in my ass! n/t

[reprobate]

15. Hey Blue, that's a strange place to keep taste buds.

[Blue to the bone]

22. It all started in 2000..........n/t

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYC]

61. She voted against Gonzales,

but she voted for Rice.

Here's the roll call for Gonzales:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00003

[never_get_over_it]

10. We can't leave Iraq

who would staff all the military bases we're building there.

In the words of Mike Malooy - I HATE THESE PEOPLE

[bpilgrim]

13. spoken like a true neoCON

she must consider making enemies in her own party as a good thing :crazy:



bloggers, FIRE at will :evilgrin:

peace

[hollowdweller]

14. One thing for sure, after being relentlessly branded as a far left

liberal for close to 8 years, now that Hillary is finally speaking and into politics one can see how far off the image created by the "vast right wing conspiracy" of her was from reality. In fact I'd say she's a little to the right of Bill, but certainly she's working hard to make sure no republican beats her anytime soon.

I can't say I agree with her approach to Iraq but I understand it.

[Blue to the bone]

23. I understand her approach too..........

....it's call political prostitution.

[reprobate]

16. How long will it take for people to get it?

The clintons, both of them, are part of the inside the beltway power elitd.

Bill did not rule as a Democrat. He supported every bill and regulation that the corporate bosses wanted. Oh, sure, he gave lip service to some social liberals, but push comes to shove, he supported the corporations.

Hillory is just the same. Don't expect any changes from those in power in D.C. now. It will take a complete change of leadership in the congress and that cant happen before 2006.

[brentspeak]

18. He supported NAFTA, but I'm not sure what else

he did that significantly harmed the average American worker. Take him to task for NAFTA, but he was in no sense a DINO.

[bvar22]

30. Alot of Bill Clintons support for the Corporations...

...is based on what he didn't do.
For several years, Bill Clinton, with a Democratic controlled Congress, could have led the way in undoing the damage that Reagan did to the Working Class.
He didn't!

[Andromeda]

42. For two years Clinton had a...

Democratically controlled Congress and he was trying to get a national healthcare plan passed.

It failed bigtime, so why don't you tell me how effective the Democratically controlled Congress was?

If you seriously think Bill Clinton could have rolled back all the damage Reagan did in the span of two friggin' years, you are seriously deluded.

[Itsthetruth]

48. Remember S-1?

Remember what happened to the one bit of pro-labor legislation taken up by that Congress? Senate Bill S-1.

We had 53 votes in favor of the bill which outlawed "striker replacements". The Republicans merely threatened a filibuster. The Democrats in the Senate folded.

The bill was not passed. It could have been.

Some friends of labor they are!

[bvar22]

58. MOI?? Seriously deluded???

I don't think so, and history and the facts are on my side.

The HealthCare package was a disaster of complicated regulations and CorpoWelfare for the HealthCare Industry. It was a failure before pen was ever put to paper. (Perhaps it was a an intentional failure? It sure was dropped faster than Jeff Gannons pants at a fraternity party.)

....and then there is the Telecommunications (Media Consolidation) Act of 1996. (A DEATH WARRANT for LABOR wing of the Democratic Party)

Was there a single Corporate Merger or deregulation plan that he opposed?

Perhaps there was an occasion when Bill Clinton stood AGAINST the DLC/CorpoSponsors and did something for the working class. If he did do that, it has slipped my memory. Perhaps you can refresh my memory by reminding me of that occasion.

Bill Clinton by himself could not have rolled back the damage done by republicans, but he could have shined the light of TRUTH on the Anti-Labor legacies of Reagan. He could have begun an honest dialog that would have forced these issues into the national awareness.....and he could have done that BY HIMSELF.

I LIKE the BIG DOG.
I am glad he is LOVED by the World and met by cheering crowds wherever he goes.
He is brilliant, and I love to hear him speak.

I also know for whom he works.
Hillary works for the same people.

[flygal]

73. Read - Two Income Trap

She nails the Billary perfectly.

[leftchick]

19. She could at least be honest about WHY we are staying forever!

for at least a "generation". And it has NOTHING to do with Democracy in Iraq... :puke: I wonder if she is on the PNAC board now as well. She sure talks like it.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?bid=13&pid=2132

~snip~

Though the media ignored Kerry's statement and failed to do any substantive follow-up research, his comments were well-grounded in reality. On the day of the debate the Christian Science Monitor spotlighted the findings of defense specialist John Pike, whose website, GlobalSecurity.org, located twelve "enduring bases" in Iraq, including satellite photos and names. In March, the Chicago Tribune reported that US engineers were constructing fourteen such long-term encampments--the number Kerry referred to. The New York Times previously placed the number at four.

While the exact figure may change, suspicions of undisclosed US imperial plans--exemplified by permanent military bases--rightfully linger. Before the war, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz suggested moving US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia into Iraq. In October, a survey by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes found that two-thirds of respondents disapproved of a permanent military presence, even though more than half thought the US would build the bases anyway.

Now comes a report in the New York Sun by Eli Lake revealing that the Pentagon is building a permanent military communications system in Iraq, a necessary foundation for any lasting troop presence. The new network will comprise twelve communications towers throughout Iraq, linking Camp Victory in Baghdad to other existing (and future) bases across the country, eventually connecting with US bases in Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Afghanistan.

"People need to get realistic and think in terms of our presence being in Iraq for a generation or until democratic stability in the region is reached," Dewey Clarridge, the CIA's former chief of Arab operations (and Iran-contra point man), told the Sun.

[NNN0LHI]

21. I agree

Giving a date for the US departure would be very dangerous. It would be better to not announce anything and just slip out after dark like thieves in the night. Leaving ASAP and using these methods should keep the casualties to a minimum while boarding the transports.

Don

[Baclava]

25. Oil! Oil! Oil!

We won't be leaving till the oil is safely flowing.

(I thought everyone knew?)

[bvar22]

60. I like your plan.

And the USA already has a blueprint.
We used it in VietNam.

I'm with you and Hillary on that point.
No Announcement,
just GTF OUT!


Iraq is for the Iraqis,
not Halliburton!

[ckramer]

31. What's the matter with Hillary?

Maybe she doesn't to run for president any more.

[iwantmycountryback]

35. What the matter with DU'ers?

Give it a fucking rest. Would you like to see what would happen if we left now? Something like the Taliban, no doubt. But sure, it's not like a bad thing for somebody even worse than Saddam to come into power. Get your heads screwed on right people! I don't like this war anymore than the next person but let's think logically at this point. I wish we had never gone in the first place but we did, so we have to deal with it. I'm sure you all have tons O fun screaming and bitching about how much of a Republican Hillary is, but why don't you take a logical look at what she said, and the same thing about what she said about abortion. She wasn't becoming anti-choice as so many here would like to believe, she was talking about ways to decrease the number of abortions. I think we bash Hillary just as much as Republicans now.

[iamjoy]

40. I Am With You iwantmycountryback

Like it or not, we will likely be in Iraq for many, many years to come. Heck, during the Cold War we had (and still have) military installations all over Western Europe. At that time, our concern was the Soviets would move in if we moved out.

We have facilities in Saudi Arabia and parts of Asia. We have a military presence in Japan some 60 years after WWII ended because at first because we didn't quite trust them, then there was the North Korean threat. The added "bonus" is that our presence there supports U.S. Imperialism.

In the short range (and on the surface), we must stay in Iraq to help stabilize it. Our long term (and deeper) goals are another story entirely.

But, IMHO, Hillary, this isn't going to work. You are alienating the hard core Democrats you need to win a Presidential Primary, but you aren't going to win the hearts and minds of any moderates and conservatives.

[sendero]

54. Sorry...

... it doesn't matter how long we stay - we are simply dumping good lives and money after bad at this point.

Logically, exactly what do you think staying 1, 2, 5 more years is going to accomplish? I'll tell you what NOTHING. And I defy you to create any reasonable scenario where staying will help anything.

[bpilgrim]

65. we don't support ILLEGAL WARS

and we're paying ATTENTION.



the smart politicos will factor 'us' into their game-plans if they hope to survive another term :evilgrin:

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[Skittles]

32. we have to stay there forever

:o

[DU GrovelBot]

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[iwantmycountryback]

34. I enjoy the reactionary comments and eating of our own

But I've yet to see a logical argument as to why she is wrong. We'd sure all like to leave now and pretend things would be great, but we can't do that. If we left the country would be plunged into anarchy and a truly pro-terrorist government would take over. Like it or not, and I don't, we have to stay because we're already over there and leaving now would make things even worse.

[tabasco]

37. Logical arguments:

1. Self-determination for Iraq.
2. No more American troops killed and maimed.

Those two logical arguments are enough for me.

Everybody loves a damn war until they are in one.

[ckramer]

43. That essentially says Iraqis are stupid and can't take care of

themselves. BS.

[aneerkoinos]

50. In a sentence:

USA is the problem, not the solution.

[bpilgrim]

66. the war is ILLEGAL and the Iraqi's want us OUT

that requires a plan... an EXIT STRATEGY if you will with a milestone timetable to measure our success in implementation.

politicos are gonna be held to account by bloggers and they aren't gonna be able to get by on silly sound bytes especially when they sound like neoCON ones.

peace

[Voltaire99]

70. She's yours; take her

You seem poorly informed about Iraq, whose civil society has been destroyed by the US-led invasion. Anarchy has prevailed for nearly a year. At least bring yourself up to date if you're going to try to argue these points; no one serious is going to be moved by your foolish claim that "leaving now would make things even worse."

You're free to try to portray the Bush-lite Hillary Clinton as "one of our own," of course. Ha, ha! Good luck!

[Rose Siding]

36. Exactly wrong. We should send a mssg to Iraq and the WORLD

and our own people "that we are going to be out of here at some date certain."

[Kashka-Kat]

38. oh come on, ya don't need an exact date

You can still set goals and map out the sequence of steps leading to setting a date for withdrawal, etc.

But it aint gonna happen. The reason why Bushies don't do this (and why democrats arent more forceful) is that there never was any purpose to be there and no other goals to be met besides regional control and unending military presence-- ala PNAC. So, how can you plan an exit in any believable way if your plan isn't really to exit.

The only hope is if enough political pressure was brought to bear to get them to relinquish this goal. Then too, all empires are eventually brought down by resources spread too thin-- but that could take awhile.

[wildmanj]

39. republican lite

NEVER AGAIN----It has to be, I will just cast a vote for the real thing----voting for republicican lite democrats is about the same as drinking warm spit---its time democrats change and if not its time i changed----and to think----back in 1984, I also promised myself I would never again vote republican=---never say never

[Rex]

41. Those insurgents are Iraqi citizens, maybe they don't like our style.

Mrs Clinton voted for war so she won't get any help from me in 2008!

[Barkley]

45. Would the Iraqis spend $150 billion &1500 lives to "liberate" America?

I don't think so.

[yorkiemommie1]

46. nope

as hard as i have tried to trust her, i cannot.

[Martin Eden]

47. "bide your time" BULLSHIT

Referring to insurgent strategy concerning a date for U.S. withdrawal:

"I think that would be like a green light to go ahead and just bide your time," the New York Democrat said.

What, exactly, would it mean for the insurgents to "bide their time"?

Does that mean they would hold off making major attacks until after U.S. troops left? If so, wouldn't that give reconstruction efforts and the fledgling Iraqi government the opportunity to make some progress?

The last thing the insurgents want is to let up and give their foes a chance to establish stability or something approaching security and normality.

The "bide your time" argument is a transparently illogical excuse for keeping a permanent U.S. presence there. What Miz Clinton and others are trying to establish is a conventional wisdom that rejects any firm committment to exit Iraq.

[Catchawave]

49. I saw the Graham-Clinton-McClain interviews today, as well

as the Clinton-Bush in-country tsunami visit coverage....

....and am starting to think the future of world peace does not lie with Dems or Repubs anymore. This was all such wonderful photo-ops...just my nickel opinion.

[aneerkoinos]

51. Sad but true

Future of world peace lies with US empire collapsing ASAP. And the future of American people lies with progressive anti-corporate forces left of the corrupt two-party system.

[ClayZ]

59. Corporate Think Tank

[Zhade]

55. Notice how she conflates terrorists with the homegrown resistance.

She is willingly participating in The Big Lie.

[ClayZ]

57. on and on and on

ARGH!

[despairing optimist]

62. That's not Hillary. It's Al D'Amato! He's snatched her body!

She'll be reelected in NY for sure now.

[Itsthetruth]

63. Should Hillary Determine The Future Of Iraq?

And if we "cut and run" from Vietnam a brutal communist dictatorship will murder millions of Vietnamese people and all of Southeast Asia will go communist!

Ooooppppsssss. It went capitalist!

I think I've heard this line of reasoning and logic before. It's up to the Iraqi people to determine their future ..... free of U.S. occupation and control ..... even free of Hillary Clinton's control.

What right does Hillary Clinton, George Bush, John McCain or any other Washington politician have to dictate the future of Iraq? The arrogance!

[mmonk]

67. Hillary is right

How can we take over other countries in the region if we leave?

[oasis]

72. Hillary,thanks for not saying anything that right wingers will attack you

for. Rove and his cohorts have their strategy and the Democrats have theirs.

Thanks for sticking to the game plan.:thumbsup: