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(53 yr) Man Gets 10 Years for Impregnating (14 yr) Stepdaughter (WP)

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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:05 AM
Original message
(53 yr) Man Gets 10 Years for Impregnating (14 yr) Stepdaughter (WP)
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 12:50 AM by diamond14
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62268-20...

Man Gets 10 Years for Impregnating Stepdaughter

By Katherine Shaver
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 4, 2005; Page B05

A Montgomery County man was sentenced to 10 years in prison yesterday for impregnating his 14-year-old stepdaughter. The girl became pregnant after a judge allowed the man to move back into the girl's home following his release from jail for sexually abusing her when she was 9.

Sidney Ray Richardson, 53, of Germantown, pleaded guilty in December to a third-degree sex offense. Montgomery prosecutors said he had sex with the girl while she was drunk and while he was on probation for sexually abusing her when she was 9 and 10 years old.

Richardson's case gained public attention in 2002, when he went missing after his probation officer confronted him about taking a paternity test to see whether he had fathered his stepdaughter's baby girl. He was arrested in the District in June on a fugitive warrant.

Assistant State's Attorneys Kathy Knight and Donna Fenton said the girl, now 18, is raising her 3-year-old daughter.

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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Half of stepfathers molest their stepdaughters.
n/t
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I don't believe that
I don't even understand why you'd say such a thing.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. As a stepfather, I find that a pretty offensive assertion
Got any genuine statistics, or did you just make that up?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
54. Another one here
I considered that post a PA, and treated it as such.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
126. And another one.
Is that one of those "Everyone KNOWS it's TRUE" things, or do you have any hard facts to back up your bullshit with?

I'm busting an "alert cap" on you ass.
hope you enjoyed your stay here...
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #126
137. There aren't any hard facts about incest, only educated estimates.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 01:11 PM by barbaraann
If there were, every perpetrator would be in prison and there wouldn't be any happening.

We can count murders with dead bodies, we can count thefts by missing property, we can count car accidents with crashed cars, but we can't line up children and count molestations.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #137
152. You talk to other women?
Do you have any indication from other women you meet?
If you see three women at the water cooler, do you assume one of them was molested as a child?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #152
153. What is your point?
You seem to be making light of the subject. She has already conceded she doesn't have an exact number. Yet you are badgering her in a manner that implies you don't believe the number of rapes is significant at all.

It almost sounds like you are blaming the victims, when you question why they aren't screaming and revolting in the streets. Have you ever read about the subject of rape? Even boys and men don't scream it in the streets when it happens to them because they are ASHAMED. Rape, especially incestual rape is a psychologically violent crime and children are threatened to keep quiet. And compound the horror that some of them may have been stimulated to the point of climax, they feel doubly ashamed and in a sick way responsible for what happened to them because they had a moment of pleasure. Why do you think peodophiles say 8 is too late? They take advantage of the child's immaturity, sexual ignorance and abuse their power of authority as an adult.

Do you believe that voter fraud didn't happen in 2000 and 2004 because there aren't millions of poor and black Americans screaming in the streets and revolting?
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #153
157. The Point
It's numbers

If I accept the 50% statistic. Then if I see four step-dads. I can be almost assured one of them is a rapist. 94% probability.

If I know a percentage of all women who were raped by a parental figure. We can back estimate the percentage of fathers and step-fathers responsible.

And note from post 79. That the estimate is 1 million victims while on another link it's 60% of girls for 90 million victims. Thats two orders of magnitude in uncertainty.

Or put differently
One is three men on a corner. Hence 1 is a rapist.
A theater full of people. Hence 1 is a rapist.

I do appologize if it seems I am baggering. I am just trying to get my head around the scope of the problem.

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #137
155. Don't you really mean every MAN would be in prison?
It's obvious to me that you have "issues" with the male sex.

I'm sorry for your pain, but I was born with these genitals. I had no part in what happened to you.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #155
162. It's terrible that anyone goes to prison.
I think what is needed is a radical new commitment by society to good parenting as its most basic value and an end to the prison-industrial complex. I have also worked to help prisoners and ex-prisoners, by the way.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #137
180. Stepfather > NOT biological father > NOT incest
child abuse, rape, molestation, but not incest. You should really know what the words you're using mean before you start tossing them around.
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #180
196. incest is about the emotional relationship
not the biological one. There are two uses of the word. For those in recovery from sexual abuse, incest is about the relationship. A step-father or step sibling can be an incestor based on the relationship with the victim. Just an FYI.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #137
201. daddies get to be 'reunited' with their victims while the NEIGHBOR who had
sex with the child gets jail....

Now... why is that??? why does OUR legal system protect PARENTS who molest and abuse their children?

Gee, got MALE judges on the bench?

You betcha.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
167. More likely half of step fathers that she knows...
and the universe of step fathers that she knows is probably very very small
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. My, barbarann, you certainly know how to put a strain. . .
on the rules against personal attacks. Have a nice night.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
72. I am not at all attacking good stepfathers.
I am just trying to let people know about one of the realities of sexual abuse.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. What percentage of birth fathers does your inimitable caseworker..
think molest their daughters?
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #74
79. Here is some info:
One of the nation's leading researchers on child sexual abuse, David Finkelhor, estimates that 1,000,000 Americans are victims of father-daughter incest, and 16,000 new cases occur annually (Finkelhor, 1983). However, Finkelhor's statistics may be significantly low because they are based primarily on accounts of white, middle-class women and may not adequately represent low-income and minority women (Matsakis, 1991).

Victims of incest are often extremely reluctant to reveal that they are being abused because their abuser is a person in a position of trust and authority for the victim. Often the incest victim does not understand -- or they deny -- that anything is wrong with the behavior they are encountering (Vanderbilt, 1992). Many young incest victims accept and believe the perpetrator's explanation that this is a "learning experience" that happens in every family by an older family member. Incest victims may fear they will be disbelieved, blamed or punished if they report their abuse.

In addition, some recent research suggests that some victims of incest may suffer from biochemically-induced amnesia. This condition can be triggered by a severe trauma, such as a sexual assault, which causes the body to incur a number of complex endocrine and neurological changes resulting in complete or partial amnesia regarding the event. Thus, any immediate and/or latent memory of the incident(s) is repressed (Matsakis, 1991).

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewe...
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Thank you for the article, you have shown that your original statement..
is wildly incorrect. Given that the first article you posted stated that stepfathers were "5 times more likely" to commit abuse than birth fathers, the numbers shown in this article lead one to a vastly smaller number than 50% of stepfathers.

See, simple math was all it took. I appreciate the chance to demonstrate that.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #82
100. OK, it IS a difficult thing to measure.
However, I trust what I was told. The caseworker who told me had twenty years of experience and had no reason to lie.

I care about this issue because, among other things, I was in the room when a friend of mine was molested by her father (her real father) in the sixties. My eyes were closed and I do not know exactly what happened but I heard what was going on and I heard her ask him to stop, which he didn't. At the time there was little awareness of sexual abuse or what to do about it. Also, he was an Officer in the military and I was an enlisted man's daughter.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #100
102. Barbaraann, I never said the caseworker or you were lying....
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 11:33 AM by tx_dem41
..and I apologize for jumping on you. I'm an engineer and I care very much about statistics and how they are proven, so I apologize for being very mathematical in my posts. I think its great what you do and the passion that you have.

So, I'll drop it now, and wish you well. And, thank you for your efforts.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #102
105. Thank you. It's ok.
Right now I'm not doing anything to help abused children because I'm trying to fight fascism. One of the things the Republicans have done to our society is to make us spend all our time trying to hold on to the status quo by our fingernails while they dismantle everything so we do not have time to work for progress on anything.

So, probably everything I did has been negated by the Bush administration. :-(

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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #102
111. I can understand, being an Engineer
why you would focus on the math a lot.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #111
112. Hmmm...I'm scanning that post for some hidden meaning....
LOL...just kidding (I think). :-)
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. You're funny!
Reminiscent of a past discussion perhaps? ;) You have an analitical mind and that's good, somebody's got to do it!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
101. TYPICAL attitudes about child sexual abuse!!!
most people DENY that it happens as much as it does. Especially incest.

Before ANY of you continue shooting down barbaraan, go ahead and do some research yourselves on the subject, some DEEP research, educate yourselves!!! I challenge you!

Part of what you may come up with, is history of the general public's own denial that this stuff goes on!!!

And everyone stop taking this as a personal attack against yourselves, only you yourselves know what you've done in your own lives.

Wake the fuck up, people!!!
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #101
104. That's all I have asked for..."deep research"
I'm only addressing the mathematics of this, not the issue, which I agree is a serious one. If you want to be credible though, you can't throw out wild numbers based on nothing substantial. In the long run, it hurts your cause. The fact that the "real" number is 50 or 40 or 60 or 20% really shouldn't matter, should it? So, why undercut your cause by using a number that you can't back up?
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #104
108. You may be too mathematical about it
I don't think it's a cause for splitting hairs over exact numbers, but she's generally correct overall in her facts.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. I wouldn't know. And, neither would anyone else that one is trying to ...
...convince. Hence, the problem.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #109
114. That's okay
I guess this is a subject that is extremely unpleasant (to say the least) so most people don't spend much time looking into it.

It's horrible to see the newsclip above and how the stupid Judge enabled it to happen. Thanks to the "leaders" of our country who allow this stuff to go on.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. We agree on that MHz. n/t
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #101
198. I have sat in the meetings and in counseling sessions
with survivors and am often left feeling angry that WE are the ones who have to work through all the emotional shit as a result of the abuse, while the perps ofen are left and allowed to repeat the offense.

denial indeed...

Until this society puts the well-being of children and women FIRST, we will remain sick and the violence and abuse will continue--often with impunity.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #79
133. That is 1/50th of what you originally said.
Adjusting the numbers from my previous post. The number of 1 million means that the percentage of Step-Fathers Assaulting their stepdaughters is 1%. And then for biological fathers it is 0.2%.


1% of Stepfathers is a serious problem we should all be alarmed about. But not nearly as insulting as assuming that 1 in every 2 stepfathers is a rapist.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #133
135. Every number is a shaky estimate.
Please look at all the links I posted. Thanks.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #135
142. To be off by nearly 1.7 OOM isn't shaky, it's irresponsible!
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #142
149. Irresponsible?
I have done a LOT to help abused children. I have been responsible. I am trying to communicate what I learned in the work I did. I am not trying to attack innocent people.


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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. I'm not by any means detracting from your work,
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 02:14 PM by one_true_leroy
and I salute you for it. But to cite a number like that (50%), which seems wrong by about 5000% really is an irresponsible use of numbers please read my post elsewhere on this thread regarding the fuzzy math.

edit: also, your sampling population as a caseworker is by default skewed and biased.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. Sorry, I should have stated my source.
I worked with Child Protective Services for several years and this is what I was told by a caseworker.

Here's some info:
...
Pornographic photography is also used in sexual abuse with children. Reported sex offenders are 97% male. Females are more often perpetrators in child-care settings, since children may confuse sexual abuse by a female with normal hygiene care. Sexual abuse by stepfathers is five times more common than with biological fathers. Sexual abuse of daughters by stepfathers or fathers is the most common form of incest.

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/abuse.js...

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. That doesn't remotely say that half of all step dads abuse step kids
No where in that article to they give the base percent off of which they get the 10 times figure.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I don't have an article for what the caseworker told me.
I worked with CPS for several years and I more about child abuse than I want to know and more than most people know.

Here's some more info with a different number but some additional information (the last paragraphs is especially chilling):

The divorce rate is approaching 50% (Longres, 1990, p. 287) which translates into a lot of mothers dating and some eventually remarrying. While dating, mother may be bringing in men who may prey upon her children if they get the opportunity.

If women remarry, they could be putting their children, especially their daughters, at risk of sexual abuse. "The finding that stepfather-daughter incest is far more prevalent and severe than biological father-daughter incest has considerable implications. The most obvious ones are not only that the daughter of women who remarry are at much greater risk of being sexually abused by their stepfathers, but that it is a substantial risk...our data suggest a one-in -six risk factor...Another implication of these findings is that women with daughters might be more cautious about marrying again if they were to recognize the consequent risk to their daughter." (Russell, 1986, p. 268)

"As some researchers have begun to suspect, it may be the case that a growing number of stepfathers are really `smart pedophiles', men who marry divorced or single women with families as a way of getting close to children." (Crewdson, 1988, p. 31)

http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc1...
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. a caseworker told you?
OH THAT's a great source.

Sorry, but that is absolute b.s., and an insult to loving stepfathers all over the country (and the world) who come into a broken family and make it whole again.

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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
65. Yes, a caseworker who works with abused children.
Why would you not trust a trained professional on the CPS payroll?
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #65
71. Oh, one reason is....
that you (and the caseworker) have provided no evidence to back your ASSERTION. And, it is just a throwaway assertion until you do.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. It was a statement made verbally while I was doing something
to help abused children. I was inside the CPS building making a difference while many other people were burying their heads in the sand. It's pretty ironic that I'm getting attacked and I'm the person who has done something to fight abuse.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Oddly enough, you have NO idea what I or others on this thread
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 10:59 AM by tx_dem41
have done in the area of fighting child abuse.. There you go again with the baseless accusations.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. I'm not referring to a person, but to people in general.
The pro-lifers in particular bother me because they simply do not care about abused and neglected children and are fixated on fetuses.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #75
170. A big thank you, to you...
I'd just like to thank you for all of your compassionate work with kids who have been sexually abused.

It's a very painful subject and these children are torn up. They require so much, and reaching them emotionally is sometimes like pounding through layers of concrete. Those thick layers are there for a good reason. Those tough defenses are a traumatized child's last resort, and I applaud you for doing this challenging, loving work.

Again, thank you.

You're an angel. You've made major differences that will affect these children positively for the rest of their lives.

:)
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #65
120. because I've seen abuse
BY CPS as well and they have NO credibility in my eyes.

Children "in the system" have no better shot at safety and security than with their abusive parents. And kids are often removed for no good reason and actually put at risk by CPS departments all over the country.

Trained professionals? RIGHT! ROFL
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #120
131. There's some truth to what you say.
There are a lot of problems with foster homes and with some CPS agencies. Most of the caseworkers try to do the best they can with what they have.

Originally, in the early days of CPS agencies, there was enough funding to do a lot more than just emergency placement in foster care. The money just isn't there now for prevention and treatment. Also, Republicans love to cut funding for pro-active anti-abuse programs that strengthen families.
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Don1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
43. Exaggerated Statistics
"...the daughter of women who remarry are at much greater risk of being sexually abused by their stepfathers, but that it is a substantial risk...our data suggest a one-in -six risk factor..."

(1) Are these 1980's figures being touted around as part of the 'marriage is good. divorce is bad' propaganda?
(2) More importantly, how did 1 in 6 quoted above in the papers that you reference become 1 in 2??

Alright, alright...I am going to cut you some slack here. You are working with Child Protective Services, I believe you said. Children within that group have a higher rate of being abused, which is half the reason for the need to be protected in the first place. Perhaps, the statistic that you heard or the statistic that your case-worker friend heard was that 1 in 2 children within CPS who come from a broken home have been sexually abused by a step-parent.

It is a great thing that you are doing, advocating for the protection of children. Do you think that in your zeal to protect them, you let yourself believe something that was exaggerated?
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
103. I appreciate your thoughts.
I hesitate to say this because I will probably get flamed even more but the caseworker also said that sexual abuse was so common that sometimes they wondered if it wasn't rampant.

Here's an article that might provide some perspective:

http://groups.msn.com/AmericansUnitedforAccountabilityt...
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #103
182. Rampant
Quite possibly.

In my 20s, when I was trying to sort through my baggage, I conducted a casual poll among all of those I was comfortable enough to discuss the subject with.

4 out of 7 had had experience of sexual abuse as a pre-pubescent. For most, the perpetrator was a family friend / neighbor. One said it was an uncle.

They told us never to go off alone with strangers, but they never told us why.

Also anecdotal: one of my friends who'd been abused conducted a little poll of her own, when she was living in San Francisco, among her gay male acquaintances. Almost every one of them told her they'd been sexually abused as children.

Our conclusion was that sexual abusers picked up on whatever latent homosexuality these men exhibited as children, and targeted them as victims because of this, as they would have been more vulnerable than the average boy-child.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. 35% Of Women molested by Father/Step-Father
Using your numbers.
50% of Step fathers at 5 times equates to 10% of biological fathers.
So of the 90% of women who were not assaulted by their biological father. 50% Have their parents divorce. And of them half will be molested by their step-father. I get a overall assault rate of 32.5% of all women are assaulted by their father and/or step-father.

Somehow I would think these 50 Million plus, victimized women would be making more noise. But thats just my opinion.
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selmo7 Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. The reason they don't make noise -
Shame, Threats, Secrecy, Silencing -
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
199. and an indifferent judicial system *eom*
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
69. Here are some survivors making noise.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #34
85. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #85
134. They are open, but 50 million don't appear to be screaming
from post 79
David Finkelhor, estimates that 1,000,000 Americans are victims of father-daughter incest,

It appears only 1 million are screaming. Or 1 woman out of every 150.
Not that I don't take the matter of anyone being sexually assaulted as a big deal. But the level of noise I would expect to hear if the numbers were 1 in 3 are far more than what is being heard today. (We don't find men lying half naked in the street with their heads bashed in nearly frequent enough for it to be fifty million victims.)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #134
139. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #139
141. Lol!
:D
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #139
145. Sorry you suffere(d) so
I do not mean for anything I say to diminish what has and is happening. But being an engineer also, I pay attention to numbers and statistics.

I can look at the GLBT movement, which only comprises perhaps 15-30 million people in the US (5-10%). They make far more noise on the national stage, and survived great hardship when they first realsied their numbers in the 1940's.

I find it difficult to explain why twice as many women, raped by a parent, would remain silent. Given all the other things that have been accomplished around them. I would have expect women to have staged a armed revolt years ago. Women have had that ability ever since Sam Colt made Men and Women equal.

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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #145
160. Please try to understand the shame.
The Crippling Shame of Incest / Sexual Abuse

"Incest (which I am defining here as it is defined by Survivors of Incest Anonymous, as sexual abuse by a family member, extended family member, or other person known to us whom we were led to trust) adds devastating betrayal issues and more crippling shame to the wounding."

"When trusted people violated our bodies they betrayed us heinously. They did further mutilate our relationships with our hearts and souls, with our bodies and sexuality - because we thought it was our fault. We thought it was our fault because we were kids relating to older people who were higher powers to us - and because too often the perpetrators told us it was our fault and threatened us if we told. A child who is abused by one parent and doesn't tell the other parent, or by a grandparent or uncle or family friend and doesn't tell parents - is a child who already knows that he/she will not be believed, a child who has already gotten the message that her/his needs and emotions are not important to the parent (s.) Any child who felt loved and protected by his/her parents would immediately tell them if someone was hurting her/him.

The incredible pain and shame generated by sexual abuse often causes a person to identify their body, and their sexuality, as the enemy. Incest and sexual abuse cause self hatred."

More...http://www.joy2meu.com/sexual_abuse.html
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #145
183. All Kinds of Reasons
Society will kick and scream to protect itself, even (or perhaps especially) on the micro level. A family will protect itself, shield its eyes, from what it doesn't want to see.

When you're in a situation where you are young and vulnerable and no one in your family will protect you, you learn that you may as well keep quiet because speaking up isn't going to help.

FYI, I'm speaking from my own experience; I was subjected to emotional and physical violence (not sexual, thank goodness) from an older brother for a 10 year period, ages 6-16.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #134
172. Most survivors never tell...
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 04:55 PM by TwoSparkles
Just because survivors aren't revolting in the streets--doesn't mean that we are not out there.

Study after study bears out the numbers: That one in four girls is sexually abused before the age of 18, and one in 7 boys.

I have been in several support groups for survivors of sexual abuse, and I've met hundreds of survivors. It's rare to meet someone who told. I've only met a handful.

The trauma of a molestation goes beyond the physical crimes. Perpetrators are horrendously skilled at silencing their victims. It's amazing when you sit in support groups--because it's almost as if perps read from the same handbook. Most children are told that if they tell, "Mommy and Daddy will go to jail." Many are told that "Mommy will kill daddy and then you won't have a home to live in." Even something simple as, "Everyone will hate you" or "No one will believe you" is horrifying to a child. Please remember, that we're talking about children who still believe in Santa Claus. They are easily manipulated. The threats are absolutely traumatizing. The child is broken and terrified most of the time.

In addition, another universal pedophile tactic is to manipulate the victim into believing that the abuse is her fault. This is called "grooming." An abuser will show a child pornography and ask them to touch them or put their mouth on them, "like in the picture." A five year old has no idea what is going on. So, they do it--because they usually trust and depend on the abuser. Then, after the child does it, the abuser will say, "I won't tell anyone what you did. You'll be in big trouble for doing that! But it will be our secret." The child is in a fog of confusion. Perps break down victims and they create trauma bonds between the perp and the victim. The victim feels compelled to do what the perp says. The victim feels powerless and helpless and she learns to distrust her own feelings. She wants it to stop, but she feels trapped. She's so emotionally broken--asking her to turn in her own father--when she's so traumatized--is like asking a bird with broken wings to fly away from the nest.

Perps masterfully transfer the guilt, blame and shame onto the victim. The victim remains silent. My abuser constantly told me it was my fault, "I don't do this with other children! You wanted this!" Tough words for a seven-year old to hear. I believed it too. It's much easier to believe that it was my fault--than the face the stark reality that my father was an evil monster.

Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to bash my father's head in. He abused me and allowed others to as well. However, it's not that simple. Most survivors have PTSD. Terrorizing someone into fear has repercussions for the victim and shedding those fears takes time. I've been in therapy for 4 years and I'm still afraid of my father.

Furthermore, awareness of sexual abuse and victim advocacy is a relatively new thing. More victims are coming forward, but it's going to take some time before victims feel strong enough and accepted enough to do that. There's a lot of blaming-the-victim stuff that goes on. Look at the recent Paul Shanley priest case. He molested dozens of boys. Only one has the strength to take Shanley to trial. His credibility is being razored to shreds by an "expert" who claims that recovered memories are balderdash. It's hard to come forward. It's no picnic.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #172
173. Thanks
You all have given me a bit to think about. Guess I have some research to do.
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baba Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #134
184. I believe the number is 1 in 3 women have been
either sexually assaulted or abused in their lifetime by anybody, not just by a parental figure. That figure includes all sexual abuse and assault. At least that is the statistic that I have always heard. I have also heard 1 in 6 men have been sexually assaulted or abused in their lifetime.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
62. Of course your source says NOTHING to back up your assertion.
You sure did a very effective job at eliminating all credibility you might have brought to the issue.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #62
83. There are no hard, precise facts on incest and sexual abuse.
Shame and many other factors make it hard to get an accurate number. All of the research states that.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
130. "told by a caseworker."
Isn't that what's called "Anecdotal Evidence"?

And just in case you're wondering, anecdotal evidence is considered the stuff Snopes-dot-com listings are made of.

I still call "bullshit" on your statement.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #39
110. You have no reason to be offended.
I'm not attacking good stepfathers. Also, I would say the priest problem is far worse because they are usually serial molesters and harm many more children.

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GiovanniC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
124. I'm a Stepfather too
I guess it's confession time... which one of us molests our stepdaughters?

It isn't me.

There's several guys on this thread who are stepfathers... 1/2 of them are child molesters... come on, guys... let us know who you are.

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. Not me.
And not you...
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
132. I was molested by my stepfather
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 12:43 PM by geniph
I do not, however, attempt to extrapolate from my own experience to then presume that it happens with all stepfathers. But it is far too common. No one is trying to claim that all, or most, stepfathers molest stepdaughters, but it's one whole hell of a lot more common than most people recognize.

Now, as to using a CPS caseworker's empirical evidence - no, you can't extrapolate from that, either. CPS doesn't get called to perfectly stable homes all that often; they generally get called in when there's something wrong, so they tend to see a far higher percentage of abused children than exists in the general population.
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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. I don't believe that for a second n/t
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
84. Well I've got news for you
Some FATHERS even molest their own daughters.

Do some deep research on the subject. It's an eye opener.
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
143. Where is the mother of this girl?
I can not believe that the mother of this child let this monster back into her house after he molested the child to begin with. I also think that the mother, in this case should be held accountable for allowing this man back into her life. I do not give a shit what sorry story he gave this mother,she should have never let him back.
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
159. Hey now!
That sounds dangerously like a half-assed generalization. Being a step father myself I could take offense to that...........
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
177. Sorry, but this is not a viable statement.
I have spent years working with sexually abused children and their families. I know the research, and this is not remotely true.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
187. That's a disgusting allegation. PROVE it.
As a stepmother, who knows many stepfathers, I find your assertion ridiculous.
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tiredofthisstuff Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
195. No Way!!!!!!!!
My stepfather was better to me that my real father was. You should get you numbers right before making a statement like that.
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AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. what State was this?
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LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maryland
eom
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Maryland (nt)
.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Judge was an IDIOT!!!
:argh:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. maybe the judge abuses his own daughter
what other possible reason could there be for such lunacy
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. That judge should be held accountable for his disgusting decision.nt
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. The judge is an accomplice,
in my opinion.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. Yes, he ignored the advice of the guy's therapist and probation officer
The mother of that child also bears responsibility because she REQUESTED that this monster be allowed to move back in. She also is an accomplice in this matter.

"Richardson lived with his wife and stepdaughter in 2001, after Montgomery Circuit Court Judge Durke G. Thompson allowed him to move home. Richardson's wife requested the move, but his therapist and probation officer did not support it, according to court records."
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
89. Holy Shit!!!!
Why didn't she dump this guy? I would have attemted to do a "Bobbit" on him.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
168. And should be disbarred and put in prison!!!!
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 04:24 PM by LiberalFighter
He must be related to the judge that rescinded the divorce of the pregnant woman
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eleonora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. they should castrate sex offenders
n/t
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. They do, chemically.
A treatment, often recommended, is depo provera which reduces the size of the male testes, thus reducing the sex drive. Amazing huh. I suppose it's bretter life in the electric chair on a low current but I prefer the latter.
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Castration,
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 05:41 AM by laylah
chemically or otherwise does not address the problem, IMHO. It is all about the power and control these animals exert over their victims. :mad:

Jenn

edited for grammar
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
58. I agree. The problem, it seems, is that sex offenders are highly
resistant to any type of persuasion or therapy, thus the chemical option and indefinite sentencing. I prefer the latter.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
174. How about sentencing them to Gender Reassignment
I hear putting Estrogen in the system makes for some interesting changes.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
67. What to do with female sex offenders then?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #67
87. hysterectomy is female castration.
not that it's relevant here.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #87
136. Is the effect the same on female sex offenders?
And, do you think it is not relevant because you do not think that there are female sex offenders?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. it's not relevan because the percentage is so much smaller, and
it's not relevant because the sex organ is not the origin of the problem.

The origin of sexual abuse is in the brain, and women have alot harder time using their sex organs as weapons.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #140
154. The topic was castration as punishment.
And it appears that this is a kind of punishment that some seek to mete out on only some people, apparently based on what kind of sex organs they possess.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #140
178. Ah, but they do abuse children sexually.
And the percentage may be smaller, but its bigger than many people know.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
13. A judge would allow a rapist of a 9 year old
to move back in? Where in the heck was the mother? An abused person herself? But I'm sure Bush has cut funding for mental health and other assists.
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StuckinKS Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
56. I know a case
where a judge allowed a man, who used a foreign object to penetrate his stepdaughter, to move back into the home. Then, a different judge allowed the man's drug-exposed infant step-grandson to be placed in the same home for the first ten months of the child's life.

And to think that I get grief for adopting this same child BECAUSE I'M GAY!
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #56
98. It Makes No Sense
StuckinKS - some people have messed up values.
You are considered a pervert because you love another adult of the same gender. But a man who rapes his daughter or step-daughter is considered a fit parent.

Doesn't seem right, does it?


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doodadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. But let's keep that parental consent
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 12:55 AM by doodadem
aspect going for abortion, by all means.
Anti-abortion forces should be beat over the head with cases like this. You can't tell me this is ever going to be a happy situation for a kid born into this environment, or for the kid having the kid.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Exactly true
Many supporters of bills demanding that parents sign off on abortions of their under-age girls did not take into consideration that some parents played a part in the rape and pregnancy of the under-age girl.

This "new" family is a tragedy waiting to happen. Nine years old? And the judge returns this girl to the step-father? I can think of a mother, father, step-father and judge who should all be taken out in the desert and shot.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
93. Parental Consent For Abortion Isn't The Problem
I'm pro-choice but mixed on parental consent. Cases like this don't sway me - worry that not having parental consent would exacerbate the problem because incest victims could have multiple abortions rather than getting help. Of course the flip side is they could go to a butcher rather than face the "shame."

The problem REALLY is that a monster like this was allowed any where near this child. And now, after a second offense he gets 10 years? I hope some prisoner makes this guy his bitch, maybe it will teach him a lesson. No, that would only teach him to abuse. Cases like this make me think we ought to use the death penalty more often.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. Tragically, this is common, especially in the South.
I covered the International Conference on Family Violence on 9/11, ironically. I was shocked to find out how many women had been unable to convince judges that their daughters were being abused by the ex, even when doctors reports included photos documenting rape.

If Daddy is a cop, judge, lawyer, or elected official, many judges close their eyes and resign the kids to a hellish situation. One woman actually took her child and ran, only to be extradited from a foreign country and brought back to face kidnapping charges. Never mind that the teenage daughter testified that her father was raping her nightly.

These same judges refuse to authorize abortions in states with parental consent laws, which is why such laws are so bad.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TOOLZ Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. You missed one detail about them...
...and their color is...???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
118. "Good 'Ol White Boys Club"
:freak:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
123. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bluedonkey Donating Member (644 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Hello?
MARYLAND!!
This happened in Maryland!
Perverts are everywhere,not just the South.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
64. True, there are abusive fathers everywhere, but the specific caseses
I've seen where judges condoned or ignored the behavior by granting the perverts custody were all in Southern States.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Since when is Maryland a Southern state???????
And, its a BLUE state to boot. Perhaps a Geography and History lesson is in order.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #68
90. since civil war times.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 11:15 AM by jdj
http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa041999.htm re: mason dixon line.

"This line was very symbolic in the minds of the people of the young nation struggling over slavery and the names of the two surveyors who created it will evermore be associated with that struggle and its geographic association."

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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. Maryland was a border state in the war.
I could care less about the Mason-Dixon line. Its a Catholic-based state, much like a large portion of South Louisiana, my home state. It "ain't" the South.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. yes, I"ve yet to meet anyone from Maryland who claims the South.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 11:24 AM by jdj
But the history speaks for itself.

LOL, what a difference a line makes...Delaware got off scot-free despite it's dubious history.

"The Compromise established a boundary between the slave states of the south and the free states of the north (however its separation of Maryland and Delaware is a bit confusing since Delaware was a slave state that stayed in the Union)".
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Yes, the history shows that its not the South...
...save for two surveyors.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. and that slavery thingie.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
36. The South cannot be broadly characterized as a
"hotbed for seamy life and racial discrimination." If you've not been here then how would you know? The south is a huge geographic area. What is your definition of the extent of the Southern States? I must say that I appear to be somewhere, which is to say a progressive, medium sized town in Georgia. The most "seamy" behavior that I observed last week was the "Girls Gone Wild" crew in town (from California) to film buxom sorority girls flashing their breasts.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. What a prejudiced statement!
Please, do us a favor and stay the fuck out of our area. Stay in your wittle blue cocoon where no rapists live. Try reading your local newspaper police blotter. And yeah, it's only povery stricken dumb people that rape their daughters.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #37
66. Please refrain from insults.
I did not say that everyone in the south is a rapist.
I merely observed that of the actual victims I have interviewed and met in my career as a journalist, 100% of those who were doubly victimized (by daddy and the courts) lived in small Southern towns.

There may well be similar cases elsewhere. I simply have not seen them.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. Yes, I agree...
please refrain from insults, Liberty Belle. A good lesson we can all learn.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #70
94. sadly, people use the south like racist whites use blacks, men
use women, and religious people use gays, as a repository to project their own worst failings and shortcomings on to to divorce themselves from self-examination.

"Those kind of people do things like that."

"That kind of thing doesn't happen here."

and so on. It's really effective, this is how Bush won the white house while banging Condi on the side. Project the bad traits onto some less powerful target, and you can justify anything.
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Beautiful statement, jdj. Spot on! n/t
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #94
148. hear, hear!!!
:toast:
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #66
107. this is a dangerous, ignorant post, liberty belle.
as a grit-spitting, corn-shuckin' hillbilly, I know that the south has at least partially earned a lot of the crap we have to listen to about this region.

But as a survivor of child abuse, please refrain from insinuating that child abuse is epidemic in the South and non-existent anywhere else. That's a slap in the face to children all over this country who live in the hell of child abuse, and are crying out for help.

It certainly sheds a lot of light on why it persists so successfully, if every non-southerner thinks this only happens "down south."

Perhaps you did not hear about that recent scandal with the Catholic Church, and how the priests were raping alter boys. Not much of that happened down here. If you are a journalist, how on earth did you miss this...it was all over the news.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
125. open your eyes and read the post that started this thread.
or does it threaten your world-view?
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Well, I live in Illinois and I had a similar situation happen to a friend.
She could NOT convince the police to give her a restraining order against her husband. They told her SHE needed to move out, with her kids. Her husband kept terrorizing her until the judge finally overstepped the police and helped her.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
86. Same thing here in VA
When I was volunteering with a homeless shelter. Man had been raping his 12-year-old for years. She only spoke out when he started in on her younger sister. He got to stay in the house, while the mother and 6 children had to leave. The judge in the case was more concerned about the father getting counseling than he was about the daughters' mental state.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. It's common in the north, also
Here in Michigan - a blue state - one of my friends went through a similar deal. The grandfather was convicted of molesting his granddaughter, who is lived with. The judge gave him to jail time at all, saying he was so old, it wouldn't be decent to lock him up.

Too frail for prison, but not to frail to rape a child. Go figure.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. alright, yes
what you are saying is true, but please try to remember that some of us other tolerant liberals in the north give those ones a dope slap when we catch them at it.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. lol .. dope slap!
:D Thanks.
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #42
53. it's the strom thurmond legacy....strom raped his underaged maid

when the maid bore a child, strom DENIED the Black Child was his, while spewing anti-Black racist hatred all over the South....


THAT is strom's legacy...and it will stain the South for many years, BECAUSE THEY TOLERATED IT, and re-elected strom for years, even when strom couldn't function anymore at the age of 99...it is truly IGNORANT people who would re-elect a man so aged, that he spent most of his last term in the hospital.....
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Yeah, that explains why a guy in Maryland did this.
What does Strom have to do with this story? How do you know the race of the rapist?

Any chance to attack millions of people I guess. :eyes:
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. no, it explains why many feel the SOUTH is ignorant/racist.....
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 10:18 AM by diamond14



you can look at the photo in the Washington Post link...the man is WHITE, just like strom....



strom wasn't just a man who raped his Black maid....he was a U.S. SENATOR, re-elected many many times by the MAJORITY of the People, and representing the views of the SOUTH....that's why some feel that the SOUTH is ignorant/backwards/racist....and THAT is the legacy of strom....

it will take many years and lots of effort for the SOUTH to rid themselves of strom's legacy....it is the LEGACY of strom that makes people FEEL the SOUTH is ignorant/racist/backwards....

note: I didn't say that that's the TRUTH, it's just that as long as strom's LEGACY is honored down SOUTH, that will be the PERCEPTION of most Americans.....and it would also help if all the confederate flags were taken down, afterall, the confederates LOST and they were TRAITORS to AMERICA, attacking an American Military Installation, which started the WAR (sort of like honoring those who attacked the pentagon on 911...which started TWO WARS)....


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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. I don't want to register, so I didn't see the pic.
So this particular man is white, so that means all white Southern men rape their daughters?

Great logic Einstein. How about he represented SOME people in South Carolina and show me proof that everyone who voted for him was aware he raped someone.

It's so lovely here at DU lately where some people have a free ticket to jump into any thread at all that has absolutely nothing to do with the South and attack all white Southerners.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
73. Please stop calling us bigots.
I have spent a great deal of time in the south and have relatives there. Bigotry and narrow-mindedness is definitely more common in the South, though by no means exclusive to the Southern States.

This is partially a hold-over from the slave-owning era, and partially the fault of inadequate education in many schools and right-wing dominated media, a bad combination that often reinforces stereotypical behaviors.

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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #73
78. Pot, meet kettle. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
144. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #144
158. I agree with your sentiments...just realize you directed them at the ..
wrong person. Ripley was being slightly sarcastic if you read the whole post.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
46. Common in the South????!!!!
Who are you to make such a disgusting, sweeping, and ignorant statement? You really should consider taking a deep breath and opening up your provincial mind to the possibility that the South is NOT any less evolved than what ever hellhole puts up with the likes of you.

I'm disgusted with the attitude pervading attitude that the South is full of knuckle-dragging inbreds. You would never say soemthing like that in regards to a race or religion, but you have no limit to your smugness to look down on the south.

Culturally, the south has made so many more contributions to this country than any other region, yet we are still shat upon by intolerant and ingnorants posts such as this.

Hang your head in shame, elitist!
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #46
77. Excuse me? How many incest victims have you interviewed?
Unless you have statistics or personal dealings with these unfortunate young girls, please don't spout off.

As I've said several times here already, the cases of judges handing over sexually abused children to their abusive fathers that I've seen and written about as a journalist were all in the south.

While there are apparently some instances of this occuring elsewhere, as other posters here have noted, southern judges are typically appointed by conservative Republicans and their thinking is reflected in their callous decisions, which ignore the abuse of children. Is this the case 100% of the time? No. More often than in liberal states? Yes, based on the cases I have seen and the many women from Southern states who have e-mailed me after my articles have run in national women's publications.

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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. Statistics....odd of you to bring that up, since...
you have produced none yourself.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
88. Dozens and dozens of victims and their mothers
whom I've interviewed on this topic, all from the South. Many contacted me after reading articles I wrote on this topic in national publications. If there are women in other parts of the country who have been through this, they did not contact me. I can only report on my experiences.

If anyone has seen a study of actual court cases on this topic, I would be interested in seeing the stats.

Again, I draw no conclusions about the number of incest cases in the south, only about the propensity of Southern judges to rule against the best interests of incest victims.

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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #88
91. "I draw no conclusions about the number of incest cases in the south"..
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 11:24 AM by tx_dem41
Oh, c'mon. Of course you do. You've spent half the thread drawing conclusions and now we find out its based on a whopping 100 or so interviews by one person. Very convincing.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #88
127. "dozens and dozens"
take a statistics class and come back when you realize why you can't say a damn thing about the South based on such a tiny, unvetted number.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #127
176. One judge anywhere turning a child over to a molester is too many.
On that, surely we can all agree. The point is that we need to speak out against such injustices wherever they occur, no matter if the judge is black, white, or purple, northern or southern, Republican or Democrat.

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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #176
185. I'm in your corner on that point.
What happened was reprehensible and irresponsible, perhaps even legally negligent.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. Thanks. I'm glad we're both in agreement on that.
And by the way, there are some very nice people in Texas. I actually have a lot of relatives down there. No offense intended earlier; it's the bad apples in the judiciary who are the problem, not the ordinary citizens, for the most part.

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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #186
188. sure...
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 08:45 PM by one_true_leroy
but please recognize that the South is no more or less diverse in opinions, attitudes, and values than the North is. We actually are quite literate ( A Nobel prize in lit was awarded to a few Southerners), creative (Jazz, bluegrass, rock n' roll, and blues were all Southern), and progressive (Jimmy Carter, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins). Sure there are bad apples, and certainly a lot of dark chapters of history, but I try to think of evil as a randomly distributed function. We didn't invent it here, and we surely don't have exclusive rights to it. We've certainly had our share of growing pains, and maybe one day I'll lay out my view of the South and the racial issues as I see them, but I have high hopes that these issues are improving, and to deny improvements by degrees is to kill bit by bit the dream of so many of us here really trying to make a difference. No one should ever be made to feel ashamed of their roots, even as they acknowledge the flaws.

edit: fact check on Nobel prize.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #186
189. by the way,
i noticed some of my posts were deleted... if it was you, and you were offended at my refering to your posts as asinine, I'll apologize, but calling us 'white as the sheets wear' was VERY low. If you wanna keep it posted, fine, but many of us have moved far from the uglier chapters in our history and it really is an unneccesary gouging of old wounds.

"pick... and it will never heal" Townes Van Zandt.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #77
117. and where are your numbers?
anecdotal reports are not statistical facts, and should never be used to make blanket accusations, especially to call something so heinous as incest common to one region, if only for the reason that it promotes the attitude of 'well, it could never happenm here.' That type of generalization is repugnant and very insular.

You say incest occurs more often than in 'liberal states...' What is your basis? A handful of e-mails? Any statistical accounting for populations? Any attempt at fair sampling? Or did you just read the e-mails and snicker smugly about us immoral Southerners?

I take regional stereotyping personally because it is personal. I am a Southerner, and after having lived much of my life being made to feel ashamed of that inescapable fact, to the point of eliminating my accent through years of careful diction, I refuse to hold my tongue while someone shits on my roots.

If you find some hard numbers statistically equilibrated to account for sampling (as any careful and rational person should do before labeling something as a trend), post them. Until then, recognize that this whole thread was concerning an action in Maryland, and that no region has a stranglehold on or even greater propensity for immoral or repugnant behavior. To marginalize a population as immoral and to regard them as second class citizens on no basis other than regionality is antithetical to the purpose of this forum, and will always draw a rebuke from this proud Southern democrat.

btw, and to answer your question.... yes... I was a counselor for four years and have worked as a medic. The tragedies I saw were not caused by any degree of Southerness.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #46
106. Liberty Belle is correct
The history is correct. The "Good 'Ol Boys Club" originated in the South, and the Judges have been the worst there on incest and child sexual abuse. It was a precident for the other States.

Everybody STOP TAKING THIS SHIT PERSONALLY!!!
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #106
179. Thank you, Megahurtz.
Another example of this in the news lately has been the trend of judges to deny requests by minors seeking abortions in certain southern states where parental notification or a court order is required. In Georgia, it's become so hopeless for minor girls who are pregnant that counselors are advising not to bother going to court, because all the judges say no, even in cases of rape or incest. Instead, women have been helping these girls go to other states where abortion without parental consent is still legal. Now there's a push to make it illegal for anyone to assist a girl in getting an abortion out-of-state in such cases.'

That sort of thinking may well explain why one young girl in Georgia recently allowed her boyfriend to bash her in the stomach with a baseball bat to induce an abortion.

If I can find a link to the above, I'll post it. It was probably from eith NARAL, NOW,or the Democratic Women's Caucus.

Before the critics start carping again, let me note that there are some good judges in the south, of course. The trouble is that where the ultra-conservatives have political power, they appoint judges who are often sexist bigots with no compassion for children, either.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. I guess the judge felt the girl asked for it and it was her fault being
he sent that poor innocent man back there to be seduced. (sarcasm)
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. Charges
The judge should be disbarred! That judgment is as stupid as allowing a necrophiliac to go back to his job at the funeral home! I hope the judge is brought up on charges and if the young woman wanted to, she should sue the FUCK out of that asshole!
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
23. Great: even if he stays in all 10 years, he'll be out in time for 3 yr old
to hand the same fate to his stepdaughter's daughter..?

At the VERY least he deserves 18 years -- that's the burden of childrearing that he placed on the girl.
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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. The judge should be made to share in the $ support of the child
He is as responsible for the creation of that life as the biological parents are. That poor, poor young woman! I can't begin to imagine the fear that must have gripped her when that rapist moved back into her home. I wish her well and hope that she is able to find peace of mind and a life for herself somehow.

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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. forget the Judge - WHAT MOTHER would ALLOW
a man who molested her 9 yr old back into the home ever again?

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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Yes, she not only allowed it, but REQUESTED that the judge allow it
How sick is that?
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Wonder if Mom was a victim when she was young?
Just wondering out loud here. Is there perhaps some type of serial pattern here. Where this might have existed over several generations?
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
38. What is it with all these disgusting fucks in the last few days?
Some dumbass downloading a video of a five year old girl's rape.

A rape of a six-week-old baby.

Now this? I know it happens every day, but we seem especially bombarded lately. Disgusting...there are no words to describe what I feel for those people.
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Les BOOGIE Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. we have 2 cases of infant rape in today's paper
chronicle.com (Houston TX) usually (but not always) requires registration to read the story
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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. OH, SHIT.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 09:47 AM by patsified
Those 2 cases from the Chronicle will haunt me for the rest of my life, I think. Fifty years is not enough for that piece of shit who raped the newborn. I wanted to print out that picture of him in his Sunday best, just so that I could set it on fire. What an evil, evil being. He's not even human. And I couldn't even finish reading about the near-death rape of the 6-month-old. That man raped that baby to virtual death! On a ventilator, and she may not even live. Death might be a favor to her, sadly.

Yes, these are fine examples of how heterosexual homes are so superior to homosexual homes! :puke:

What the hell do we do about this as a society? I can read almost any kind of article except those documenting abuse of children or animals.

Sick, sick world, and it won't get any better under the new fascism. I had better stop reading these articles, gotta save my sanity and my senses for the fight!

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Conservativesux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #51
57. San Jose, CA Police Officer arrested for infant rape on 2/3..Sick!!!
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
129. God that's disgusting!!!
:puke:Guys that do things like this should have their entire package lopped off and then sent to prison on a life sentence to let the inmates take care of the matter.
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jswordy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #57
146. OH NO, THAT CAN'T BE...it isn't in the SOUTH! It's in California!
Take that, smug assholes.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #146
156. Dude, don't take it so personal
NOT EVERYONE in the South voted for Dickwad either! Please don't read me wrong.

The stuff that some of us talk about on this thread regarding the South is regarding not so distant history (some leading to the present) court cases about incest/child abuse, attitude about "ownership of women and children as chattel" and KKK mentality of some (and unfortunately the KKK still does exsist) and yes, a lot of this ORIGINATED in the South.

I agree, this happens in ALL States and the courts are mostly still screwed up about child sexual abuse in ALL States.

I know that there are many, many good hearted and honest people in the South who would never even dream of participating in what I described above.


There...................do you feel better now? :hug:
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
41. was it frist who said that rape doesn't result in pregnancy?
and would the repugs have ruled out the morning after pill in this case?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. If they were so sure it doesn't result in pregnancy
they'd have no grounds for opposing any morning after bill, abortificant or not, for rape victims.
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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
48. What? Was the electric chair not working or something?
What an idiot - both the judge and the perp.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
61. How many years will drug possession get you?
This is #%$*&@$ INSANE.

That poor young woman...who is now raising a child. I can't even begin to imagine.
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arbusto_baboso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
113. Best argument yet for allowing abortion to minors w/out parental consent..
Of course, I'm sure the girl had it coming to her. They ALL have it coming to them, right? I mean, walking around in those revealing and slinky SpongBob underoos.... :eyes: :puke:
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
119. First of all, the mother of the girl in question is a fucking IDIOT.
Second of all, that girl needs to sue the state. It's scary to see that a judge would return a pedophile to a home where there are children present. My cousin was brutally raped repeatedly as a child. She's never been the same. I didn't know her until she was way older, but I'm told the spark left her eyes and has never returned. I can't imagine thinking that the man had left and that your mother already didn't believe you but she disrespected you so much that she would have the man come back, on a judge's orders no less. It makes me ill that the judge had so little respect for a child of sexual abuse that he would return her abuser to the home. I'm appaulled!
Duckie
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
121. The statistics regarding incest/sexual abuse...
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 12:21 PM by TwoSparkles
The statistics that I've seen repeatedly are: One in four girls is sexually abused before the age of 18 and one in six boys is sexually abused before the age of 18.

I've seen these numbers repeated in numerous studies.

Most sexual abuse is committed by someone in the immediate family. Stranger sexual abuse is rare. However, since stranger-abduction cases receive so much media attention, people assume they happen more often than they do.

Ok, I'm no mathematician. But if one in four girls is sexually abused, and stepfathers are 6 times more likely to sexually abuse their stepdaughters--is the 50 percent number really that off?

There are many wonderful, amazing stepfathers out there. These awful statistics are not about the courageous, sensitive stepfathers out there who work hard to parent their stepchildren and build a new family that is healthy and nurturing.

However, we can't deny that stepfathers abuse their daughters in greater numbers than biological parents. The statistics do bear that out. I'm unsure what the total number of stepfather-daughter incest is (or if the 50 percent number is valid), but we must not ignore that this happening and that it's not rare.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #121
147. Reasoning flaws...
I don't mean to chastise you, but your conclusion (the 50% number), is fatally and statistically flawed. To make the numerical leap, you have to ASSUME a 1:1 ratio of stepdad to step daughter ratio. In other words, every stepdad must have one daughter and every daughter must have one stepdad. This totally disregards any family with multiple children, and any family with a stepdad but no daughter. You simply cannot use this funny math to make such a cruel conclusion that half of all step fathers are raping their daughters. While I'll agree that the may be more incest between steps, you will never convince me without solid statistics that half of all men who remarry are raping their new daughters.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #147
164. With all due respect...
Edited on Fri Feb-04-05 03:44 PM by TwoSparkles
The 50 percent assertion, was not my number.

I was simply asking a question based on these known facts:
--1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before age 18.
--Stepfathers abuse more often than biological fathers.

I concluded the number of girls molested by stepfathers had to be at least 25 percent, and that possibly the 50 percent number might not be too far off. As I stated, I could be wrong. I asked the question.

I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, of anything.

It's a fact that numerous surveys and research have repeatedly borne out the "1 in 4 female" and "1 in 7 male" abuse rates.

That's staggering enough, in itself. I have no incentive or desire to convince anyone of the stepfather incest rates--when I believe the known stats are a living nightmare that should be addressed yesterday.

Let's just say that stepfathers, like the rest of the general population, abuse their children at a 25 percent rate.

That's staggering enough for me.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #164
166. the math is still very loose and fuzzy...
Start from the initial estimate of 1 in 4 abuse rate. 25%. How many of those girls are related, sisters even, and share the same perp? How many of those victims were molested by a family member other than the father or step-father? How many perps molest both step and biological daughters?

I'm gonna make up some numbers to show how the reasoning is flawed. Let's say there are 100 women. 25 were molested. Let's take the average household as having 2 children. . The random distribution would be 50% male-female siblings, 25% both female, 25% both male. So 33% of your population would be sisters, so there would be 16 sibling pairs. I rounded this number to make this easier... if the 25% molested rate holds true, then 4 of those pairs would be in the molested category, so now you have 25-8= 17 unique perps. But that only holds if the perp was clean during his first marriage and only molested during his second. So now let's talk about the divorce rate, curently up to 50%. So now 25% of your population share a dad, but are not sisters. So in the victim pool you have 17-4 = 13 unique perps. This number gets wittled further if you count in dads without girls (25% of the population in our model), men who remarry more than once, nonparental molestations, etc. So the number I'll accept would be nearer to 10% or lower of men in general.

I lay these assumptions at your feet, so as not to hide numbers:
2 child household
50% divorce rate
25% sister rate
25% molestation rate
no more than 1 remarriage.

this doesn't even scratch the variables of larger households and other familial variations.

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #166
169. I admire your left-brain skills...
...I appreciate you explaining all of that. It makes sense.

It also makes sense that many of the 25 percent who have been abused, have been victimized by the same perp. Your reasoning backs up the notion that most victims of sexual abuse are raped by an immediate family member. It's logical to assume that these immediate-family-member perps are molesting more than one child in the house (and probably some children who are outside of the home too).

What's tantamount to me, is that 25 percent of girls are sexually abused before the age of 18.
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #169
171. You and I can at least agree there...
That the base rate is one in four should say to anyone that we have a hella job to do.

I didn't mean to be so tenacious in my arguement, but my jaw hit the floor when I read the first response in this thread assert half of all step fathers are rapists. Numbers are sacred to me, so I hate to see them callously abused. And then the assertion that rape and incest are common in the south...

Today was certainly a case of my rightbrain sizzling as my left brain frantically tried to remain coherent all while trying to filter my redheaded Irish indignation!!! If I had typed everything I said aloud reading this thread... whew!!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #171
193. I understand....
...and I do appreciate you going through those numbers. It helped me to see how my thinking was flawed.

Numbers are sacred to you and I admire that. I graduated with a BS in journalism--without taking one math class. Isn't that sad?

I'm very right-brain dominant--I'm surprised I don't tip over! I appreciate your very astute thoughts.

...and redheaded Irish indignation...that's powerful stuff! :)
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one_true_leroy Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #193
197. if you ever get bored...
i figured out the nember resulting from taking dads as a sample pool insteda of women.

if i'm ever sadistic, I'll post it.


...no math classes... what'd you do for fun? ;-)
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #121
151. 1 in 4 is low for 50% of stepdads
If it was 50% of stepdads, my back of the envelope suggests it should be 1 in 3.

But post 79 cites a statistic of 1 million victims of parental rape.
At 1 in 4 there should be over 38 million victims of parental rape.
At 1 in 3 there should be over 50 million victims of parental rape.

So if you watch the game on sunday. Think aout how many rapists are in that stadium for the above numbers.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
122. How well I remember
In the area that I grew up in in W.Va. the common idea was that rape was a thing that girls brought on themselves, by the way they dressed, acted, etc. My family was deeply religious-very, very fundie. Whenever there was a report of a rape, there was invariably a sense of disbelief. One of the most common sayings was, "a girl can run faster with her dress up than a man can with his britches down."

When I started becoming very seriously interested in girls with an eye toward future permanent relationships, my own father took me aside and cautioned me to be very careful that some girl would hire some man to rape her (I had no idea what he was talking about-I thought he was saying, "rake", as in, maybe, scratching her face) and then blame it on you. Yuck! I'm lucky to have survived to get out of that atmosphere.

No wonder there's so much bullshit rattling around, masquerading as the revealed "Truth."
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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
138. the mother should be put in jail .
mothers who dont protect their kids from sexual abuse are criminally negligent.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
161. Having Litigated some of these cases.
Now I have NOT done any of the Criminal litigation, my experience has been in Children and Youth i.e. abuse of the Child as to protect the child as opposed to bring a criminal charge against the person who harmed the child.

Now most CYS cases involve neglect but abuse (including Sexual Abuse cases) are part of the docket. Lets look at some of the factors in such cases:

1. You need to protect the child, but that is easier said than done. Lets look at the case of a father raping his child (and I have seen in both ways i.e. Father with daughter or Father with son rarely is the Mother the sexual abuser). If you jail the father you often take away the source of income to the family. In effect you are punishing the VICTIM more than the Father. The Father gets a place to live (the Local Jail) three hot meals (The Jail mess) and "companionship". Lets look at the victim, he or she ends up being kicked out of his or her house for the child's Mother can NOT pay the rent on her income alone. The child has to change schools, get new Friends, AND given the drop in income less meals. This situation makes Judges very disinclined to jail father/sexual abusers, as you can see the Victim is punished more than the Perpetrator.

Along with this concept is that the child is best with people he or she knows, generally his or her mother or mother or Father's Families. Since most of these perpetrators tend to run in certain families you are just putting the child into the same background he or she was AND that family support group mad at the Child for turning the child's father into the police. I have seen the hostility.

Now if you do get a Psychologist or Psychiatrist to testify that putting the child into such an environment is harmful to the Child, the Child tends to be a "High Need" and "High Risk" child (often caused by the abuse). i.e. needs extensive services and parents who can take the time to work with the child. Most adoptive parents just can NOT provide these types of services (And remember most of the children at the point of being removed are school age and thus not as adoptable as pre-school children).

2. Other siblings problems. What do you do when a young teen (age 12-14) does the sexual abuse on his younger siblings or cousins? Quite common. Sending the 14 year old to jail makes no sense (especially when he reports an older male than he did it to him when he was his victim's age). Kicking the 14 year old out of his "support group" i.e. his family will NOT help him and given that most family members help each other more than their hurt each other generally kicking the 14 year old out of the family does little to help his younger sibling/Victim. You need to separate them but how? Nearest relative is the best solution (14 year tend to know his uncles and aunts) but placement with the state is also an option.

3. Costs. CYS, like the rest of the programs for Children, are hopelessly underfunded and one of the first things to cut in a economic downturn (Children do NOT have lobbyist for them, so in the word of a Texas Politician when asked about the "Children" --"What their PAC?"). People like to say their are for the Children but rarely put their money where their month is.

If a child is taken away from their parents and put into a "home" i.e. a institution as opposes to foster care, BOTH Parents get to pay for it even if it several thousands of Dollars a month. Now the amount can be restricted to an amount permitted by law (Often the same maximums as for child support i.e. 60% of BOTH parties gross). Please note the restriction is NOT the Child Support Guidelines but the amount of a person's wages that can be attached under Federal law.

As to the Placement charges themselves, the courts know of these charges and are under Pressure to keep the number of Children in such placements as low a possible. Most parents can NOT afford to pay the whole amount charged so the Courts understood that the state will pick up most of the tab. Please note when I use the term "State" I am using it is its Federal Definition which includes your County Government (But not your local Municipality). Most times the agency paying for the state "cost" is your Local County not the State Government. Thus the local County Government puts pressure on their Judges to keep these costs low. In High Risk and High Needs children you have a situation where you can not place them with relatives, most foster care parents can not handle them, the State (Through their County Government) do not want to pay for the care their need, thus the only solution left is to place the children back with their parents.

Thus I can see why the Judge put the Child back in this family. He wants to keep his Budget reserved for worse cases (and their are worse cases). I suspect no one wanted to take in the girl and her mother wanted to live with the perpetrator. Given the previous history all of these Children I suspect are High Needs and High Risk children. The Judge told the Man not to touch the girl but given the above this is what you get when you say "Leave no child behind" but CUT funding for programs for Children.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #161
165. Your response is very alarming to me...
I'm responding to your point #1
"1. You need to protect the child, but that is easier said than done. Lets look at the case of a father raping his child (and I have seen in both ways i.e. Father with daughter or Father with son rarely is the Mother the sexual abuser). If you jail the father you often take away the source of income to the family. In effect you are punishing the VICTIM more than the Father. The Father gets a place to live (the Local Jail) three hot meals (The Jail mess) and "companionship". Lets look at the victim, he or she ends up being kicked out of his or her house for the child's Mother can NOT pay the rent on her income alone. The child has to change schools, get new Friends, AND given the drop in income less meals. This situation makes Judges very disinclined to jail father/sexual abusers, as you can see the Victim is punished more than the Perpetrator."

Returning a child molester back into a home with a helpless, defenseless child whom he has raped--is revolting, criminal and the epitome of evil. It should NEVER, EVER happen.

I don't care if the child rapist provides income. I don't care if the child rapist provides stability. A child rapist causes trauma and devastating psychological damage. Returning him to the home sends this message to the child, "You won't be protected. You are powerless. You deserve this. No one cares."

I bet you anything that a child who has been raped by their father--would rather live in a homeless shelter with a loving person who would keep them safe; as opposed to living in a nice house with a salivating, evil piece of shit who slips into her bed at night and rapes her and forces her to perform oral sex on him--night after night after night.

Your reasoning is outlandish.

And who cares if the rapist has 3 meals a day and "companionship"? The goal should be to remove the rapist from the home of the innocent child-victim who was sexually terrorized in her own bed.

My God--if a dog bit a child--we destroy the dog. We don't turn the dog loose in the child's house again and hope for the best! Why would we unleash a known pedophile onto a child, once again???

Yes, we have a flawed system. Society is just beginning to deal with incest and sexual abuse. However, returning the pedophile to the home is NEVER the answer.

The focus should be on getting that child into therapy, and into a new home where she can be safe and protected--and most importantly--that she NEVER has to spend one minute with the piece of scum who repeatedly raped her tiny body.

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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #165
175. TS, I agree with you 100%
This kind of reasoning is why the courts are fucked up over the issue. This stuff really happens. The Juvenile court litigators (and child's attorneys) have this same mindset. :dunce:

That's why some women run with their kids. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't!
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #165
194. So what solution do your want? The 14 year old on the street.
Remember that is the CHOICE, it is NOT a Choice of putting the child with a third party, it is putting the child on the STREET. I would like to tell you putting the child with a third party is an option but in most cases IT IS NOT AN OPTION do to financial consideration. The courts have to ration is resources, including child placement. They do they best to keep the costs low, and that means putting children with nearest relatives and if that is not possible to the family the child came from.

I hate it as much as you do, but ask your local CYS agency on how many kids allegedly molested by their parents and returned to those parents. do to lack of resources. You will be surprised at the answer. Ask your County elected officials how much money they spend on CYS and on the police. You will find that Police, the DA and the rest of the Law enforcement community gets first choice at funding but CYS is the unwanted Step Child viewed as a drain on Resources.

On top of this is the Concept of trying to keep the family together. The Courts do NOT want to remove Children from their Parents without clear and convincing evidence that the child is being abused. Your proposal is to switch this presumption to one that the courts WILL take a child upon accusation of abuse. That is NOT the law, if it was the law all of the False reports (a there are a lot) would be enough to bankrupt most Counties just in the costs of placing the children. Children Abuse accusation often occurs during breakups of families (Divorce and even teenagers leaving their parents home). Your proposal is unworkable without a huge increase in funding (Which will NOT happen).

Disgusting yes, I agree, but bad things like this happens.

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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #161
181. Those are tough cases. The ones I've seen, as a journalist,
were a bit different. Mostly they involved divorcing couples, where the mother wanted to take the child away from the father after discovering sexual abuse. Courts chose to believe the father over the mother, or simply ignored the evidence.

In some cases it may have been word of mouth, ie, his against hers. In others, there was quite a bit of evidence documenting the abuse, including pediatricians' records of physical damage, school counselors statements, siblings or others who witnessed the events. Plus the testimony of the child or teen. It seems to me that if a kid says she's being raped and is afraid of the accused rapist, the court should err on the side of taking the child's word and putting the child with the mother, assuming she's sane and halfway stable, or with someone else if that is not possible.

Many of these women are bright, intelligent professionals--not low-life drug addicts or psychos.
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hickman1937 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #161
190. This is the most reasoned response I've read.
You've listed the causes. The reasons are because one half of our society believe that they owe nothing to anyone, only their pocket. They call it "family values". Defund all social services so that they can pay for that vacation to Disney World. Republicans rule our society now, and they have a rock solid belief in post birth abortion.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
163. "while he was on probation for sexually abusing her"
PROBATION?????????????

:wtf:

he only got PROBATION for raping a 9-year-old?????

aside from the lunacy of letting that bastard back into the house, why the fuck wasn't he sent to PRISON in the first place????????
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
191. That's another reason why "Parental Consent" laws should NOT be reinstated
like JK recently suggested on MTP.

A victim of incest would have no one to turn to, since the Incest itself is almost always denied and suppressed by the incest perpetrator...who would deny the victim's right to an abortion, or postpone it until too late.

The judge in this case should be sent to jail himself for 10 yrs. Just like the judges that send Domestic Violence victims back to the perpetrators...often resulting in the death of the DV victim.

This poor young girl was raped by both her Father and the Court. And every time she looks at her child the rest of her life, she will be reminded of those rapes, and will never be able to heal.
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. Good point and I'm not sure why Dems don't bring up stats and reality.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-06-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
200. Sad. Non-violent drug users can get more time, yet this scumbag gets out
after raping his daughter over and over again. Let's see...she'll be 28 when he gets out, will he go after her again? Or after their daughter?
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