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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:27 PM
Original message
China has created brand-new form of capitalism: Bill Gates
Bill Gates seems to think the East Asian Economic model is new...

DAVOS, Switzerland, (AFP) - US software giant Bill Gates (news - web sites) has high praise for China, which he says has created a brand-new form of capitalism that benefits consumers more than anything has in the past.

"It is a brand-new form of capitalism, and as a consumer its the best thing that ever happened," Gates told an informal meeting late Friday at the World Economic Forum (news - web sites) in this ski resort.

He characterised the Chinese model in terms of "willingness to work hard and not having quite the same medical overhead or legal overhead".


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&nc...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. The government pays healthcare costs. Hint, George, hint.
What's the legal overhead stuff about?

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm guessing the 'legal overhead' has to do w/ the fact
that they cannot sue... China doesn't have to worry about EVIL trial lawyers. :eyes:
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yet we expect them to fear our US patent lawyers. Hey Bill, aren't
you one of the ones crying over bootlegged software over there?
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Too much money at stake here...
...for Bill to keep pretending that piracy is a major problem.
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Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
32. It's GOOD to reduce overhead. They waste time and money by doing nothing.
They 'supervise' in that they are paid to do nothing. Another word for bureaucrats.

And China DOES have a problem with bureacracy, Bill.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. No pesky legal protection for workers?
Corporate accountability is an unnecessary expense.
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Blower Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. No surprise--all the investment capital goes to China...
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 11:54 PM by Blower
And with it our jobs.

In return, did you know China paid hundreds of billions to the US to support the war through purchase of US debt? It goes into the pockets of Halliburton, et. al...

I have heard it said that the US corporate lobbyists are effectively lobbyists for China.

So it isn't a surprise to hear Gates say these things.
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Yep...you are correct!
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Regulation instead of litigation
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 10:45 PM by idlisambar
Generally speaking, East Asian nations tend to place more power in the hands of bureacratic regulators rather than the judicial system. China fits this mold. Generally the approach is much cheaper in terms of overhead (no bloated legal system to handle disputes) though some would say the approach is more likely to lead to abuses of justice.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. But our government opposes regulation
BECAUSE of business.

Now Gates WANTS regulation???????????

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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. Protected markets might be the correct thinking
These folks are just tending the crop from the seeds that were sown long ago. It all might have turned out to be evil or unjust one, but their end goal is to get the money to make a profit. They sold their soul long ago to go that way. No need in trying to help them see the light, they are blinded by the greed they harbor in their hearts.


http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/adworks.htm
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Gates, what the F#$K are you talking about, I'm sure you
Suffered a bad back or carpel tunnel from your labors.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. 'cause it's hard to get by on 60 billion...
:puke:
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. He dreams of the U.S.A. "gilded age"
He characterized the Chinese model in terms of "willingness to work hard and not having quite the same medical overhead or legal overhead".

This is disgusting. He is saying that a society where the worker works hard with no medical coverage and no legal protections. He is a fascist who wants slave labor and the return of robber barons. While he is at a ski resort spewing this crap, Chinese slave laborers work long hours with no health care and little pay. Wow, welcome to bill gates' utopia. Fuck that, I'm ready for Linux.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. He loves cheap labor. I got a kick out of his comment on Korea
Looking ahead, he added: "You know they haven't run out of labor yet, the portion that can come out of the agriculture sector" was still considerable.

"It's not like Korea, Korea got to a point where, boom, the wages went up a lot," he said, adding "that's good, you know, they got rich and now they have to add value at a different level.



Yep, he had to add that last part quickly to cover his ass on his true thoughts that came out.
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. No doubt he is also trying to flatter the Chinese leadership
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 10:47 PM by idlisambar
China is making a big push toward open source. Microsoft is worried about their future on the Asian market.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. If you willing to wait
in Malaysia you can get BYPASS operation for US $1.00. If you are poor that is.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's called Totalitarian Fascism, Bill
And while it's hardly new, I'll grant that it has never grown to such a large scale before.
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AG78 Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. I want to write something
I really do. I just don't know where to start, or really even know what to say any more.

War on Terror, or Tyranny, or whatever. Brand new capitalism. It's good for consumers. Stuff your word hole. Buy more crap to occupy time.

New gadgets and food for the pie hole keeps people busy. That makes sure Jack is a dull boy. Can't dissent if fat yapper is full. Brand new toy must be bought. Always must buy something brand new. It's brand new.

Is there an exit to get off this highway? I want off this ride.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah, nothing like slave labor, is there, Bill?
Oh, for the good old days.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Another reason I don't use any Microsoft crap.
Macs with Mozilla. Fuck Gates!
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. Yeah Bill, sweatshop labor does benefit the consumer
just ask Wal Mart.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. Good God, it's called slavery what an idiot
Is he kidding? There are so many violations and abuses in China
of workers plus zero free speech and human rights...

isn't that so special for "consumers".

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. Bill Gates can shove it where the sun don't shine...
I'm really beginning to hate that prick.
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eagler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. We are ,in effect , subsidizing slavery and using products
produced by slaves at the expense of American jobs - plain and simple!
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. China has a huge pool of oppressed and desperate people. Fascist.
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 03:33 AM by w4rma
In addition to that, China is THE major source of pirated software because their government could basically care less about American copyrights. Ironic.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. Reminds me of the implicit philosophy of "Windows"....
There's only one human right: to sell
And only one human obligation: to work and to buy, twenty-four hours a day.
And who the f*ckung hell needs any kind of medical or legal overhead, as long as there are enough prisons and cops?

Bill Gates did never invent anything at all. He might have worked a lot, but all of his efforts were wasted, 'cause this idiot can't get anything right. No matter how hard he tried. He did just steal some things, turned it into shit and sold it to idiots.

If there is any living proof that capitalism doesn't work: it's Bill Gates.

The world would be better of by far, if ungifted and untalented jerks like Bill Gates would receive welfare. We could pay failures like him thousands of Dollars a month, if only they don't try to work, if only they don't try to sell anything at all. The world would be better of by far.
Send him to a sweatshop in China pretty soon, producing bootlegs of Computer-OS.
He can keep doing what he's doing.

Dirk
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. Its called slave labor
and Bill they are going to screw you royally!!!
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. 1980: Bill Gates has created brand-new form of
Operating-System for personal computers.
It's a mix of the worst he could ever steal from all other existing Operation Systems.
Just like China: take the worst of fashism, the worst of stalinism and the most brutal consequences of the holy free-market and you get, well:
Brand new capitalism.
It's better than DOS and Windows 3.11.

There must be something seriously wrong with a world that allows idiots like Bill Gates to earn more than a dollar a day.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
27. Memo from Bill to China
Please, please, please use Windows rather than that nasty Red Flag Linux which you have made the default for all Chinese government systems. I have got bad news for you Billy boy and all the other western corporate fascists. The Chinese are going to take your money and your technology to build up their industrial base but when it comes to showtime you are going to be run out of town. Watch this space.
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. I believe you've got it
That's the subtext here.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
29. Rollover Bethune, and tell the 8th Route Army the news.
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 05:30 AM by Minstrel Boy
Y'know, I'm not a Maoist, but a lot of good people gave their lives to make China better than this.

Dr Norman Bethune, for instance, who said things like this:

"Charity should be abolished and be replaced by justice."

"I refuse to live in a world that spawns murder and corruption withoutraising my hand against them. I refuse to condone, by passivity, or by default, the wars which greedy men make against others..."

"Women have been slaves too long. I am tired of idiots who try to keep 'explaining' the female mind. The female mind is the human mind. Under inhuman conditions it will suffer. The myths created about the so-called female mind are kept alive by men who want to keep women in bondage."

Bethune's birthplace is a Canadian National Historic Site, and the plaque outside pays this tribute:

DR. NORMAN HENRY BETHUNE (1890-1939)

"An internationally famed humanitarian, surgeon and revolutionary, Bethune was born in this house. He graduated from the University of Toronto's Medical School during the First World War and saw extensive service in that conflict. While at Montreal's Royal Victoria Hospital 1929-1933 he gained widespread recognition as a thoracic surgeon. Increasing concern with social and political issues took him to Spain in 1936 where he organized Canadian medical aid for the Loyalist troops and set up the world's first mobile blood transfusion unit. Two years later he went to China and until his death worked tirelessly as a surgeon and medical advisor with the the 8th Route National Revolutionary Army. He is buried in the Mausoleum of Martyrs, Shichiachuang, China."



On patrol with the 8th Route Army
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
30. I guess Bill forgot to study in his history classes.
It's not new Bill. Just go read a little history of the Industrial Revolution and the working conditions for the workers starting in the late 18th and all the way through the 19th centuries.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
31. Who could be surprised?
Gates has been a shit since day one. He built his company on stolen ideas, stolen code, subterfuge, intimidation and legal extortion.

When I hear people gush about Windows, I know they know NOTHING about computer software. Windows is a piece of shit, and was from day one. Computing would be a decade farther along had Gates gone into another line of work. We had to wait a full 10 years to get an OS that is "basically" stable, it should have taken 3.

Gates is a ruthless marketing genius, but any idea that he is a technologically gifted person is ludicrous. Even the internet caught him with his pants down, he didn't think it would go anywhere - some "visionary". He had to run out at the last minute and buy a browser from someone else, just like he's always done.

Gates know his next big $$$ will come from Asia. Now that he's raped the USA, he could care less.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
33. Add Bill to the we would sell our future to China list.
Kissy face with Commies does not get your Windows through the door Bill. In case you have not noticed Bill, China is at the bend in the road technology-wise, with help from it's pal India to cement our future as a nation of slack-jawed morons that are ruled by Telescreen, our past technologies borrowed, stolen, and out-right sold to our past dreaded enemy.

As the Neocon-religious right placates the red states to keep them homos in line, China, India, and others are greasing the skids for our quick slide to third world status, and the Europeans build a powerhouse economy with a society with vision.

Our future portended as a Hollywood movie, complete with desolation, and hopelessness is almost here. The ecomnomic/industrial Tsuanmi of the next big thing is coming, and we are relaxing at he beach.

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420inTN Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
34. He's just kissing China's derrire...
He's not making great inroads into China markets and is being blocked by the government. The Chinese gov't prefers the people to use their home-grown version of Linux.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
35. Nazi labor camps didn't have "the same medical overhead or legal overhead"
either. :puke:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
37. Bill Gates, World's Richest Man, Bets Against Dollar (Jan 29 04)
Between Bill Gattes, Soros and Buffet all betting against the dollar, you can take your pick of who not to thank down the road.



Bill Gates, World's Richest Man, Bets Against Dollar (Update2)
Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Bill Gates, the world's richest person with a net worth of $46.6 billion, is betting against the U.S. dollar.


(snip)


``I'm short the dollar,'' Gates, chairman of Microsoft Corp., told Charlie Rose in an interview late yesterday at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. ``The ol' dollar, it's gonna go down.''

Gates's concern that widening U.S. budget and trade deficits are undermining the dollar was echoed in Davos by policymakers including European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.

The dollar fell 21 percent against a basket of six major currencies from the start of 2002 to the end of last year. The trade deficit swelled to a record $609.3 billion last year and total U.S. government debt rose 8.7 percent to $7.62 trillion in the past 12 months.

``It is a bit scary,'' Gates said. ``We're in uncharted territory when the world's reserve currency has so much outstanding debt.''


(snip)

The U.S. budget shortfall is ``the No. 1 risk, disregarding geopolitical risks'' to the global economy, German Deputy Finance Minister Caio Koch-Weser said in a Jan. 27 interview in Davos. He urged Bush to present a ``credible'' plan for getting the deficit under control.

(snip)

U.S. policymakers including Trade Representative Robert Zoellick defended Bush's deficit-reduction plans and blamed the U.S. trade gap on sluggish growth in Europe and Japan, which reduces foreign demand for American goods.

(snip)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=atQ...
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funkhowser Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Chinese workers
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 10:29 AM by funkhowser
I have a friend that works in management in a rather local large circuit board manufacturer. They are one of the larger employers in the area. They have bought up many small US firms over the years, as they have international small locations also. They possess sites in Mexico and in China.

My friend has visited pretty much all their remote site locations and commented upon returning from China that the workers were almost slave like. The factory exist in a small remote location where they are the only employer around. Great poverty surrounds and anyone lucky to be employed is extremely greatful. Pay is minimal. She reports that the employees live on-site in dorms, take meals in a large cafeteria, have recreation, such as movies, and receive medical care. The employees rarely leave the factory's grounds. Life is work. But when work time comes (and I cannot recall how long the work day was, but it was well more than 8 hours), the employees man their stations and fully focus on their task. There is no speaking or joking between employees, there is no getting up to take a break. Only silence and productivity exist during work hours.

Edited for clarification ... her employer has some manner of agreement with the Chinese to operate the factory and benefit from the production. But, ultimately, the Chinese government owns the factory.
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Wow
I just don't see American workers ever coming to this pass. There would be a revolution (I hope) here first.

A lot of the CHinese behavior is probably cultural. But one even wonders how far they will stand for this continuation of this lifestyle.

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Disgusting... No wonder manufacturers love it.
Thanks for sharing that. I knew conditions were slavelike but it's hard seeing it in such personal print.
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