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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:08 PM
Original message
Lockheed Wins Presidential Copter Contract
Sothe Boy King got the brand new Air Force 1 when he took office, got a brand new bulletproof limo for his coronation, and now he's getting a brand new helicopter.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Top Pentagon contractor Lockheed Martin will build the new presidential helicopter fleet, members of Congress said Friday, putting an end to a fierce competition that had both political and international overtones.

(snip)

It was a blow to Connecticut-based Sikorsky Aircraft, which has built the presidential fleet since 1957, and saw the contract as a point of pride.

``The US101 will provide the president of the United States with a state-of-the-art-helicopter ... an Oval Office in the sky,'' said Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.

But Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn. who was at the Sikorsky plant in Stratford, Conn., expressed disappointment.

``'Made in America' should mean something,'' she said. ``The Defense Department has some explaining to do.''


more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-476...
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. In Ft Worth - Lochkeed Is Laying People Off
eom
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. Its the "CHIMPOCOPTER"
Built with "Simian" pride.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. 1.6 billion contract to buy 23 aircraft
70 Million per aircaft?

F'ing Drive to Camp David!
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Imus was railing about this cost this morning. He said that dead soldiers
families get $12,000 and * is spending $70 million on each helicopter. OMG, will this get media coverage?
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
40. It's $6.1 Billion total cost...n/t
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sikorsky was more efficient too
that alone would be the reason to dump it in Bush's America.

1.5 billion dollars (total contract) for a machine to carry a chimp around in.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Where does Lockheed Martin make it's helicopters?
I thought the manufacturing was done in Alabama, Colorado and New York? Wouldn't this be "Made in America"?
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The fuselage is an Augusta - an Italian builder of helicopters
Final Assembly is to be in New York apparently but the rotors & gearbox and body will be European So much for American made
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Well, it's actually a Eurocopter
but there's a lot of US content.

Redstone
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. I was curious because Sen. Schumer seemed to be pushing
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Well, its actually an Agusta-----sorry but youre wrong. Here is a link
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 05:50 PM by A HERETIC I AM
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
33. its actually a lot of Europen content
being screwed and bolted together in the United States with a few United States electronic gizmo's and gadgets tacked on.

http://www.agustawestland.com /

AgustaWestland, the Anglo-Italian helicopter company owned by Italy's Finmeccanica, today represents a global leader in an industry sector, which is amongst the most challenging and competitive internationally.
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whyzayker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. Owego, New York
An economic disaster of a Red Zone here in upstate NY.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. OMG....right after this story on CNN, they had a Lockheed Martin ad
CNN..in their pockets too?!!
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AG78 Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. I love those commercials
CNN also has Kerr-McGee talking about drilling AMERICA'S energy for AMERICANS, and Boeing talking about freedom with a visual of a fighter jet taking off.

I don't think I've seen those commercials on other networks. Maybe I have, I'm not exactly sure, but they're always on CNN.

Why are they advertising to us? We don't buy Boeing aircraft or Kerr-McGee oil rigs. Well, I know why they advertise to us. More of a rhetorical question.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Tax Writeoffs.
corporate imagery.

I bet they own enough of the networks to get a deal as well.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. They don't let us forget who they're working for
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. And don't forget about the YACHT!
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. WTF
:wtf:The world has truly gone Mad.

But hey, maybe I should go apply at the Marietta, GA Plant.

How much did the F-22 cost per Jet?

How much did they cut out?

Has Lockheed EVER made a Helo?

I bet it had something to do with the Red/Blue thing.
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kuozzman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. No, Lockheed has never built a helo.
Just heard that on Lou Dobbs-"Exporting America"

He covered the story well. He's baffled.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. A new precedent set -- and its implications
The fact that Lock-Mart won this contract as a partner with several European companies set a new precedent in defense contract awards.

Historically, the US government has been able to purchase the majority of its equipment within its own borders. But in the last 15 years, as I've observed, the defense contractors have consolidated to a few, with reduced selection and competition.

The precedent with reduced US content in a US government contract award now provides an open door for EADS-Airbus to be awarded contracts to supply airplanes to the US government--if they are partnered with another US company.

Boeing has traditionally been the government's choice for large passenger aircraft (For example the Air Force 1 jets), and its first generation tanker (KC-135). However, Airbus now has a chance if it partners with Lock-Mart and/or Northrop Grumman to compete on that scale aircraft.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
43. Ding, Ding, Ding....
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 07:59 AM by catnhatnh
....we have a winner...the helicopter was INVENTED in Stratford Connecticut BY Igor Sikorsky....but how often can you outsource US jobs WHILE telling a Blue State to bend over for a jolly good buggering???

Sorry...edited for when I get mad I confuse my colors...
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
68. I thought that one dude
created the helicopter hundreds of years ago... sikorsky perfected it!
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. From Reuters
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy on Friday said it had chosen a transatlantic team led by Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT.N: Quote, Profile, Research) to build a new U.S. presidential helicopter fleet in a deal valued at $1.7 billion.
The decision was a setback for Connecticut-based United Technologies Corp.'s (UTX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Sikorsky Aircraft unit -- which for nearly 50 years has built and maintained the green and white "Marine One" helicopters that fly the president.

Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
<>
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. Pic
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 04:34 PM by MGKrebs
edit: Ah, beat me. OK, I'll post a different pic (artist's rendering)

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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Sorry, but you can tell it's a AR
Because there are no Snipers on the roof of the WH in your PIC.

But tell me this, is the foreground grass area, the park where the Hippies camped in the 60's and 70's? :hippie:
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. How the hell should I know?
I wasn't really a hippie, and I'm pretty sure I was stoned most of the 70's anyway. Nevertheless, I think the answer is no. What you're seeing there is "The Elipse", and I don't think they ever really allowed hippies or anybody else to hang out there. But if you could look straight down from that Photoshopped helicopter, you would see The Mall, and I happen to know for a FACT that hippies hung out there. I ain't shittin' you.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Before Bush starts to uncork his champagne,
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 06:21 PM by cliss
I need to point something out. There's an article on Counterpunch which goes into detail about the corruption in Lockheed Martin. It's a long story which delves into crony deals, backroom contracts, all made on the backs of taxpayers.

Lockheed helicopters are not as awesome as they'd like us to believe. Recall the 2 helicopters which went down in Iraq this last week. I think another one went down today in Baghdad. I read recently that we've lost a total of 33 helicopters in Iraq. That's a terrible record.

Because of deep corruption, the quality of these helicopters has gone down drastically. Government contacts are handed to them, regardless of their quality control.

If I was a US troop in Iraq, I'd hesitate to get in one of those things. I'd see if I could walk.

So -- have fun, George.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Corruption never stopped * in the past
and the chimp will probably be out of office by the time they get the first one. :evilfrown:

Just in time for the next Democratic President to be the first U.S. President killed in a Helicopter Crash. :cry:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hey Bush* Lockheed has NEVER BUILT A HELICOPTER!! Have a nice ride
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. That really sucks for me
My company was REALLY hoping for Sikorsky to win the contract.
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spartan61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
41. Even Zell-Lite Lieberman is angry
about this. Hey, Joe, it doesn't pay to support the chimp as you have found out.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. I really hope this is a wake up call for Joe L.
It pisses me off that he's still repeating the the OLD Iraq was a thereat WH rhetoric. :mad:
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. No more american made presidential helicopters, all parts and design come
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 08:43 PM by VegasWolf
from Europe. Blair, the queen, and the italian prime
minister all pressured bush into the contract or
they might pull out of the coalition of the "willing".
Economists says this spells the death of the Shilosky
Corporation. Is there any american job that this president
will not give away?
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Stella_Artois Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. Airfarce One is next
Its going to be the Airbus A380.

Americans will get to wipe the windshield and pump up the tyres.
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newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well looks like the political payback will not be limited to
Massachusetts.

Welcome to the club Connecticut!!!
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. 'Made in America' does mean something
To this administration it means the rich don't get richer. So they say to hell with it.

"The US101 will provide the president of the United States with a state-of-the-art-helicopter ... an Oval Office in the sky," With a retarded Chimp on the throne.
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
27. I hope it malfunctions
And crashes with all the neocons aboard!

:mad:
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Its not being deployed until 2009
So for your wish to come true then Democrats would have to lose the election again in 2008.
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Shit!
So much for that idea, then again...dems crashing? You mean those OTHER capitalist pigs? hummmm...
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I'd rather no helicopters crash, irregardless of the passengers.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
46. WHAT electon?
You're funny...You honestly think the BFEE is going to just fade away like that?

Dumbya will get to ride in the new Marine One. Either as "Interim President for the Duaration of the 'Emergency'..." or as his Bro Jebbie's guest...
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
28. Pentagon; Military Veteran's Benefits "Hurtful to National Security"
Veteran's benefits for "Congress' generosity".

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/12861

But a new line of choppers for $60 billion is fine & dandy.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
35. If Sikorsky were based in a red state...
I'd be they would have won pretty easily.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. Where's Senator John McCain?
Lock-Mart's corporate headquarters are located in Bethesda, MD, practically a subway ride to the Pentagon and White House.

Any of you following defense contract scandal have seen Sen John McCain and his dogged pursuit on Boeing after their scandal ridden 767 tanker contract, which led to the firing of two execs and the resignation of their CEO.

I wonder if McCain also smells a rat with this contract.


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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
38. The cost is actually $6.1 Billion...........
The $1.7 billion number being thrown around is only the initial release of contract money to the winner but total cost (developement, R & D, and the actual helicopters themselves) will be $1.6. I just read the DOD briefing transcripts.
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. More Cost Info Here.
From DOD Briefing

MR. YOUNG: The cost to go in the program is, in research and development, which includes the procurement of three test aircraft, five pilot production aircraft, which form the increment-one initial capability to be delivered in 2009, and also three of the increment- two aircraft as a low-rate procurement purchase. That's $3.5 billion of effort, to be followed by procurement of the remaining increment-two aircraft, 15 helicopters, for $2.5 billion. So the cost to go to the government is $6 billion -- $6.1 billion.



Q: One-point-seven of $6 billion is committed today?



MR. YOUNG: Committed on the contract today.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
44. Britain gets big share in $1.8bn deal to build Bush's helicopters
Times
From Roland Watson in Washington


KEY PARTS for a new fleet of US presidential helicopters will be built in Somerset after the Pentagon sprang a big surprise and gave the $1.8 billion (950 million) contract to a transatlantic consortium.

The decision is a significant boost for the Yeovil-based Westland and its Italian parent company, Augusta, which together made up a large slice of the victorious consortium.

It was led by Lockheed Martin, the US defence contractor, and will go a long way towards safeguarding 4,000 jobs in Yeovil.

The hugely symbolic deal is for at least 23 high-tech, high-security helicopters, four more than the present green-and-white fleet.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1461644,0...
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Gee thats where I want OUR MONEY to go.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. We should out-source Bush
how about hiring Kim Jung Il?

He's got experience and he's just as wacky.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. Here a great Political Cartoon on Outsourcing
<>

By David Horsey at the Seattle-Post-Intelligencer

<http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbyperson.asp?p... >
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Wow! Bush really thanked the British & Italians for sending troops
to Iraq.

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
47. It's a military chopper, so bushboy is having them leave
the bomb racks on, so he can go git him some ay-rab turrerists his ownself. Yee-haw!

(After all, he DID say "I planted the flag of freedom..." didn't he?)

Redstone

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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
66. Those aren't bomb racks..
...They are "landing gear sponsons", in helicopter-speak. That's where the main landing gear retracts into, and in some helicopters serves as a place for more fuel.
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Maiden England Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
50. two interesting points
its not just the manufacture of the the aircraft that will see jobs move overseas, BUT, the much larger loss is for the parts service, all that will be done overseas, whereas Sikorskys parts service is in the USA.

Also, fun fact, that this aircraft, the lockheed one, you won't get to fly on one like it in the USA, the FAA deemed its not safe enough and won't license it for civilian aircraft.

The other one that was in play, my hubby works on one, in the gulf of mexico. Perfectly safe...flying around probably as I type.

Something about choosing the less safe aircraft....perhaps he did make the right decision after all....
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Nonsense
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 02:39 PM by hack89
The EH-101 has flown tens of thousands of hours with a perfect safety record. It is a military helicopter that has proven itself in combat in Bosnia and Iraq, both on land and at sea. I work with several active duty and retired Navy pilots and they see it as a no brainer - the critical features in their eyes being the third engine for added safety and the larger airframe allowing more defensive systems and safety features to be carried. The bottom line is the safety of the President regardless of his/her party (don't forget that Hillary will be the first President to fly in it!) The present helicopters are a 1950's design that are nearly 40 years old with no room to carry addition defensive systems.

Don't you think that if there was any question from the FAA concerning its safety that Sikorsky would have had full page adds in every major newspaper heralding the fact?
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
67. Some interesting points about your points
I agree with hack89. But first, realize that there aren't going to be any American jobs that will "move overseas", because the jobs to develop the EH101 were never here to begin with. In actuality, this deal will create a few jobs (not as many as actually manufacturing the whole aircraft in the US, but jobs completing the airframes at Lockheed plants). Sikorsky suffered a loss for sure...but this loss was more a loss of prestige. The contract isn't a huge one by normal US military standards. The special forces are considering the S-92 if the V-22 falls through, same goes for the Marine Corps. There is a high likelihood that the S-92 will serve with the US military in some fashion.

As for the FAA "deemed its not safe enough", that's not true. You are referring to the process of FAA certification. All aircraft operated in the US for commercial or private use must be "certified" by the FAA. Military aircraft are not required to be certified. In order to be certified, a manufacturer must apply for certification, which Lockheed/EH Industries did not. They didn't because 1) certification is very expensive 2) EH Industries determined there is no civil market for the aircraft in the US at the present time.

I'm not sure if the EH101 is certified in the EU, but if it is, it would be certified under JAR rules. The only way the FAA would deem any aircraft "unsafe" would be to fail its certification for safety reasons (you can fail certification for other reasons too). I would have heard if the EH101 failed FAA certification because it's not common and it's a big deal.

Like hack89 said...find something that demonstrates the EH101 is "unsafe" and perhaps I'll retract my statement. But it's got a great safety record in the EU, and having a third engine is always nice (the S-92 only has two).
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joytomme Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
52. It's The Carlyle Group again
The Carlyle Group bought and paid for the GOP. The Carlyle Group owns 70% of Lockheed Martin.

Please see my Ratfuck Diary (http://ratfuckdiary.blogspot.com ) post today for the awful truth.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Disgusting and know what's next?
I predict Lock-Mart will team with Airbus and compete against Boeing for any large scale commercial airplane military derivative contract.
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steely Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I smell peter b teets hand in this too.
secy of the AF and former (current?) board member of lock mart.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
55. Hillary will be the first president to use it
Won't be in service until 2009
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
57. So Schummer and Hillary voted for this outsourcing of american
jobs and dollars. Dino's. I wonder if they will get a Carlyle
Group all expense paid vacation to Hawaii to take the chill off
the New York winter?
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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
60. Hmmm...He *has* a new Marine One... just doesn't like it I guess
It's called the VH-60N Night Hawk



"Features: The VH-60N is a twin engine, all-weather helicopter flown by Marine Helicopter Squadron One (HMX-1) and supports the executive transport mission for the President of the United States.

Background: The VH-60N is an executive transport helicopter derived from both the U.S. Armys UH-60 Black Hawk and the U.S. Navys SH-60 Seahawk aircraft."

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/aircraft/a...
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twaddler01 Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
61. all this free money
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 03:58 PM by twaddler01
That is coming in...I guess Bush just feels he should spend it...
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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. *That's* that "Capital" he talks about spending all the time
Damn... now I get it.
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Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
63. I live and work in the area where this is going to happen.
And I have to tell you, while I'm glad LockMart won the contract, while they might siphon off our own chopper talent, the whole town is nuts about it, but you have to see it for what it is -- when the entire area is rooting for this because it's their only economic hope, you know this is a very depressed area, and the economy isn't booming whatsoever.

Mike
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Lauri16 Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Re: "I live and work in the area where this is going to happen."
Like Zerex, I also live and work in the area. I live one town away, and I work in Owego. I'm not crazy about the out-sourcing aspect, but at the same time, i'm elated that Lockheed got the contract. This area has taken such a sh*t-kicking from Pataki's policies, and seeing him on that podium made me want to throw up, but the area needed something good to happen to it.
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Zerex71 Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-01-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Yeah, I'm not opposed to the contract.
And even though I have no ties to the area, it *really* needs to have something good happen to it for a change. But it is funny in listening to the small-town conversations that the Tier has that makes people get all worked up over it. The sad thing ultimately is that an area cannot rely on a single industry to support it. Once IBM pulled out (and left its toxicity behind), the only real thing that's been left since is military, government, and simulation.

Mike
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
65. My .02 cents
The quote that "Lockheed has never built a helicopter" is actually false...they developed the AH-56 Cheyenne attack helicopter in the 1960s, which was canceled because of its costs (and the design was a bit ahead of the times, leading to technical problems).

The "US101", however, isn't a Lockheed design. It has already been in service with various EU military forces as the EH101, designed in part between Augusta Helicopters of Italy and Westland Helicopters of the UK. Lockheed was thrown on during the bidding process to "Americanize" the aircraft.

The US101 isn't the first aircraft to serve in the US military and been built abroad. The Coast Guard's HH-65 Dolphin is a version of the Eurocopter (French and German built) AS365 Dauphin business helicopter, not to mention the French-built Dassault HU-25C Guardian jet. The Air Force operated the Italian-built Alenia C-27 Spartan for a period of time, and the Army still operates a number of British-built Shorts 330s, known as the C-23 Sherpa. The Air National Guard operates a pair of IAI C-38 Astra jets, built in Israel (although most of the US examples are built in the US now). US Special Forces also use the Spanish-built CASA 212 (known as the C-41), and the USAF operates a pair of DeHavilland (Canada) Dash-8 aircraft designated as E-9s.

Augusta is also bidding for the Army's LUH contract (Light Utility Helicopter), and has a strong contender with the A119 Koala helicopter. Anyways, just wanted to point out that foreign-made aircraft serving in US colors isn't a new thing...in fact, during WW I, most of our aircraft were built abroad in France and the UK.

The contract was put out for a competitive bid, and each aircraft contract was judged using the whole-picture criteria, not just simple performance or costs. I personally liked the S-92 built by Sikorsky, and it was a strong contender. Actually, both aircraft are very strong aircraft...the US101 has been in service for a number of years in the EU and has done a great job in roles like Search-and-Rescue and troop transport.

And if anyone wants the helicopter to crash and burn...just consider it won't go into service for some time, and many more presidents to come will have to ride in it!
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