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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:31 PM
Original message
Teen Who Cooked Pets Will Not Face Charges
THOMPSON, Ohio -- Police and humane society officials decided not to file charges against a 16-year-old student who skinned and cooked a Guinea pig and a rabbit during a living skills class.

They said it would have been hard to prove the killings were unnecessary because students did eat some of the meat, and investigators didn't find evidence the animals suffered needlessly.

Authorities said the student killed the rabbit with a bow-and-arrow and used a knife to kill the Guinea pig at home before cooking them in class at Ledgemont High School on Jan. 19.

"From a standpoint of being able to prosecute, we could not find evidence to pursue a cruelty charge," said Sharon Harvey, executive director of the Geauga Humane Society. "Do we disapprove of what happened? Absolutely. But, sadly, what happened is not illegal..."
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4138971/detail.html
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sadly? Why would this be illegal? It's what folks do when they hunt. (nt)
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
80. Well, I didn't know you could hunt in a pet store.
:eyes:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
91. People ...
... don't want to face the reality of what it takes to get the piece of chicken or beef on tbeir plate.

That guinea pig probably had a better life and more humane death than the meat you eat, if you eat meat.

I feel sorry for the kid, he is probably traumatized. Killing and preparing an animal to eat is a skill that a lot of Americans might wish they had in the coming years.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Who will be the first to say that this kid is a potential serial killer?
I won't, because it is a hackneyed cliche and smears hundreds of millions of folks who like to hunt and fish.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I was, and it was not hunting
it was family pets who I imagine trusted the kid. It is not like he went out and hunted animals in the forest--which I don't have any problem with.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. How is this different from a farmer slaughtering
a cow that has trusted him to feed it and take care of it?
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. Would you like ketchup or mustard
on your guinea pig burger? The student didn't tell the kids that they were eating a pet guinea pig. Not the same as serving up an honest hamburger. But if you insist on the former, enjoy.
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
39. I guess cows are not usually considered pets. n/t
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Generally....
"feeder" animals are not considered pets, either.

I suppose that the heavily tattooed guy who comes into the pet store to buy 2-3 guinea pigs a week is really buying them as "pets"...and I'm sure he's heartbroken every week when his pet python eats his new "pet" guinea pig that he just happened to keep in the same container...
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. watch out
possible future serial killer. To kill a pet is cruel.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Why is this cruel but slaughtering cattle isn't?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. In my opinion slaughtering any animal is cruel.
As you can guess, I am a vegetarian.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Looks like the humane society disagrees with you.
nt
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. If we were meant to be vegetarians
why did God make animals out of meat?

;-)
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BrutalEntropy Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. I know you're joking
Yes, I know you were kidding...

but I love it when people say that to me.
My response:

"If we weren't meant to be cannibals, why did god make humans out of meat?"
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. To that , I would reply
"If you're going to eat meat, why not eat the best?"

Yes, I'm kidding.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
78. We're too stringy (nt)
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
107. That response along with your sig line....
is a little creepy I must say. I am going to assume you are funny and not psychotic......this time. :)
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
47. It was never meant to be a pet.
He bought it for the project specifically. I love animals, especially rodents, but what he did was not illegal. Rabbit actually tastes kinda like chicken. Ate it several times in Mexico.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. They weren't really pets.
Pretty fucked up title.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. i agree
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. They were bought from a "pet store"
they are supposed to be pets.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's hard to find guinea pigs down at the livestock auctions.
nt
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. So go hunt a wild rabbit or squirrel?
I think if you have to buy your kill it kinda defeats the purpose. People who are indifferent to animal suffering are very very bad people and should be avoided at all costs. Certainly never encouraged.

Man these threads expose people for what the truly are sometimes. Kind of like how people drive shows them what they are like inside.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. People hunt for the fun of it.
Most people eat animals bred in captivity.

Like the story said, the animal didn't needlessly suffer.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. No, but you can find Guinea Pigs at Peruvian restaurants. Here's a recipe
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 01:04 PM by Inland
http://www.macalester.edu/~klarson/Food.htm

Recipe for Roasted Cuy

For 2-3 large animals; serves 4-6

2 red onions, chopped

4 cloves of garlic, chopped

2 tsp cumin

1 tsp white pepper

2 tsp of salt

2 tablespoons water

2 tablespoons oil

annatto (for coloring)

Mix ingredients well and spread over the inside and outside of the animal. Allow to marinate for up to one day to allow flavors to meld. Before roasting, remove excess marinade to avoid scalding. The spit should be inserted into the back part of the animal and exit from the jaw. Once on the stick, tie the front and back feet, stretching out the legs. Put on grill, turning manually. Continue to apply lard to the skin to avoid drying out the meat. The cuy is ready when the skin is close to bursting. Serve with boiled potatoes sprinkled with coriander, chilies, and the following peanut sauce. If your community is especially progressive, rice may be substituted for the potatoes.

Peanut Dipping Sauce

2 tablespoons lard

annatto coloring

2 white onions, chopped

2 cloves garlic

salt

pinch of cumin

1 large cup of roasted and ground coffee with peanuts

3 cups milk

Fry onions until golden brown, then add other ingredients. Cook at low heat for at least half an hour.



Adapted from: Guinea Pigs: Food, Symbol and Conflict of Knowledge in Ecuador by Eduardo P. Archetti, pg 61-2.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Damn, that sounds good.
A terrible thing to post at lunchtime, when all I'm looking forward to is a grapefruit.
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. :-)
Rabbit tastes pretty good too actually.

Funny how people don't realize that in different countries it's normal to eat different animals. India would think we were pretty crappy for all the beef we eat.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. So? Why is this significant?
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. virtually all "pet stores"
sell crickets and other feeder animals.

I'm sure that there's a big market for crickets as pets...
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. yup...exactly
My hamsters are my beloved pets...and as much as I don't like it, there are usually some rats and mice close by in the store which are sold for the sole purpose of feeding them to others. Two very similar animals, two totally different destinies. That's life.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
55. You can buy rats to feed snakes...
at pet stores. Does that mean that those rats are pets?
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Polly ON a cracker?Snoopy with stewed peas?Rover easy over?It's not
right.I say it's a crime.
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Boosterman Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
84. I disagree with you
but dang that was funny.
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have some hunters in my family but
they don't need to buy their prey at the pet store. If he couldn't catch anything himself he should've left it to the professionals and gone to a grocery store.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. The least they can do is flunk him
You're not supposed to use a pet store in a survivalist class, (who the fuck teaches these classes anyway?) if it's about living off the land.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'd give him an A.
Slaughtering and butchering is an important skill.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Is it?
are you serious? It is hard to tell.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes.
Can you do it?
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Could I if i needed to?
Sure. Do I think it is something to be taught in public school. No. Maybe at the Ag barn but not in home EC. I don't even think they did that in my FFA class in high school. We certainly would not have found our animals at the pet store.

The kid obviously has problems. Maybe his whole family does, who knows? All I know is you would have to be a sick fuck to want to do something like what he did. Even worse if you think it was actually legit as a class experiment.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh, so you've done it before?
Slaughtered and butchered animals, that is?

Frankly, I think the sick fucks are the arm chair psychologists/witch hunters who think there's something wrong with this kid.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
43. At least you picked an appropriate username
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Boosterman Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
85. Ouchie
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 12:17 AM by Boosterman
Tad harsh.


Edit-hmmm I take it back. I can see how you might take the other persons post.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. I guess that makes me a sick fuck
As I used to live in the country and had a rabbitry. Ate rabbit twice a week from April-Oct. And your breeding stock do get responably tame and become pets - until your does are 2 - 3 years old and their production goes down, and they get slaughtered and made into stew. Honestly, they are tough and nasty compared to a nice yummy 10 week old fryer - which is easier to dispatch because you have a dozen of them in a 30x36 cage with the mother who is obviously over having to take care of them.

I guess that makes me a monster. Because I raised my own meat instead of buying it at the grocery store.


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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. How do you figure the kid has problems?
I think you're reading too much into the story that's not there.

Many years ago, I took venison BBQ to a school picnic. It was very good, and people ate it all. Does that make me a "sick fuck" in your book too?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Especially in the world of the future, post Bush/etc
I agree with you but am not going to post more as we seem to have already covered this last week in another topic. Many of us have strong opinions as to if this is moral/ethical or a good skill to have. Seems like there are few reaching across the chasm, reminds me of the sides of the abortion question. I am glad there are people who are upset with the idea of eating a pet. I am glad there are people who look at it as being able to deal with where their food comes from. It will take all of us to continue to survive.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. For people
who don't eat meat it's a useless skill.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. That's true.
And for people who don't speak English, English literature is a useless skill. Nevertheless, I'm perfectly happy with it being taught in schools.

:eyes:
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. At least it
will be.
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
71. Agreed - Most people can't even cup up a whole chicken -
- into recognizable parts. People don't seem to know what to do with meat unless its cut and wrapped at the store.

I've hunted and cleaned, cooked and eaten squirrel, rabbit, dove and turkey. I've eaten deer, bear, buffalo and pigeon - which is great creamed over toast. I've participated in hog butchering and my grandmother could wring the neck off a chicken with one slight flick of her wrist.

To know how to survive and feed yourself off the land is a vital skill and its a shame its not taught on a regular basis.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
100. It wasn't a "survivalist" class
Please don't make up false background facts for the story.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
116. He said he was going to hunt for these animals
and then cook them in class. The teacher approved. But instead, he bought them at a pet store. So he should at least lose points for not following directions.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Young Frist Republicans in the making. n/t
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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. Sounds like one of Ted Nugent's kids...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think the kid cheated, because he was supposed to hunt as
well as prepare the animals. Preparing them is the easy part. Give him a 'D'.

As for killing them, rabbits are food in every corner of the globe, and in South America guinea pigs are raised as food, not pets.

There's no indication that he tortured them or skinned them alive or anything. Misguided, yes; stupid, yes. Future serial killer? I doubt it.

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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. If someone killed you with an arrow or a knife
you wouldn't consider that torture? I would. It's not humane.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
58. What, compared to a CBU?
Dead is dead. The methods he used were relatively quick. It's not like he slowly garrotted them...
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. Thank God for that!
:think:
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Tacos al Carbon Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. Interesting definition of torture
Actually, kosher slaughter is performed with a knife and is done in such a manner that it is as humane as possible. I saw nothing in the article to suggest torture.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. Good for you
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Do you eat meat?
:shrug:
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. Maybe... What's it to ya?
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Just wondering if you care about all animals
or just the "cute" ones.

And by the way, snippy replies without much content are not a great way to get a lot of respect for your views.

But from what I've seen of your posts, this seems to be your MO.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Well, you gave the one liner first - "Do you eat meat?"
I think it is irrelevant whether I eat meat or not. Do you eat meat?
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #83
86. No I don't.
Your turn.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. Good for you!
Now quit stalking.
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Awww, poor baby.
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 12:39 AM by livinginphotographs
Who's stalking? I'm just calling you on making absolutely no valid point in any thread I've seen you post in. You do nothing but make snide comments at others.

Sorry if I call a spade a spade. :shrug:

Do you actually want to address my point, or are you going to continue to hit-and-run?
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Why are you so concerned with me?
It seems to me that you are the one with the problem here. I am not going to be egged on by you or anyone on this forum. Peace, brother.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #83
96. It's very relevant whether you do or not
So, do you?
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #96
108. I think it is totally irrelevant, but yes i do...
but if I had to kill it myself I'd be a vegan for sure. I don't believe in killing, personally. I won't even kill spiders. If it's already dead, I'll eat it though. I'm sure people will say I'm a hypocrite (and maybe you would be right), but I think in the case of this particular story, the boy did not need to kill a pet that he purchased in the pet store. How many kids his age would even think of doing that? I think there is something 'off' about this kid. I DO NOT begrudge, criticize, and am not at all concerned with people hunting for food (or entertainment - it's legal isn't it?), so please don't give me a lecture.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. Hmmm. A professed meat eater who is against-killing animals.
Odd, and quite askew. But I give you credit for being honest about it and noting the abject in-your-face hypocrisy about your particular stance.

And he didn't purchase a pet - he purchased a rabbit and a guinea pig.

Animals aren't pets just cuz you bought it. They become pets when you so designate them as pets. Some people buy goldfish as pets. Others buy goldfish as food for their pet piranhas or other fish. Some buy guinea pigs as pets. Others buy guinea pigs to eat, or to give as food to their snakes.

People are getting way too hung up on the emotional term "pet store".

Why not call it a "live feed store"?
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. Live Feed Store sounds good...
It's just my personal opinion that animals should not be killed unnecessarily. I guess I'm not the one to judge that. I agree that there is an emotional aspect to this issue for many people. I do not think it is hypocritical to say (as I did) that I personally do not believe in killing animals, although I will eat them if they are already dead, but if that's your take, I'm cool with that.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Well, the problem here is that in order for you to eat meat
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 07:32 PM by Rabrrrrrr
the animal has to be killed. So by eating meat you really are condoning the killing of animals. And taking the fallback position of "well, it was already dead" is not a good excuse, because the animal wouldn't be dead if there wasn't a market for dead animal flesh. That's a far too easy copout to get the blood off your hands, so to speak. The acr of purchasing meat is tacit approval of the killing.

Unless what you mean to say is that you are against YOU killing an animal, and not against the killing of animals in general.

That's a bit wishy washy, but not as hypocritical as being against the killing of animals while studiously going to the grocer's every week for your shrinkwrapped containers of flesh.

(and I say this as a happy, unashamed, animal-killing meat eater)
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. Rabrrrrrr
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 08:40 PM by MadisonProgressive
"Unless what you mean to say is that you are against YOU killing an animal, and not against the killing of animals in general."

That's right. And I say that as a happy, unashamed, animal-not-killing meat eater!
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. Okay, then!
I can live with that.

I, too, prefer to let other people do the killing. Though I have done it. Including the gutting and skinning part. Yuck.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. Yuck! My sentiments exactly...
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
81. Arrows are humane. They aren't all that different from a bullet.
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 11:23 PM by Massacure
Especially with the fact that small animals don't need a high end elephant gun to kill them.

Bow hunting isn't banned after all.
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mumon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Cuisine allez!
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 01:15 PM by mumon


Ah, if only they had to do that on the Iron Chef...

http://mumonno.blogspot.com
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. I didn't know Guinea Pigs were edible.
I guess it's like those people in the Downriver Detroit suburbs who eat muskrats.

Rabbits on the other hand-

"I want hossenfeffer!"
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I've heard muskrat is natsy. Lot like possum
Greezy meat. Yuck! Bet then again, I would take an all white meat domestic rabbit over a wild one any day.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. tried guinea pig while in ecuador
Didn't particularly enjoy it, but it is part of the local cuisine.

onenote
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biftonnorton Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. God Wants Us 2 Eat Animals--That's Why They're Covered With Meat
Or so said my conservative dad. I told him to be careful 'cause he was looking a bit meaty himself around the middle.
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. My children were raised knowing how to raise and butcher animals.
It's a skill that might keep them alive sometime.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
51. What's next on the menu? Kitty parmigiana?
German Shephard pie? Puddy pot pies?

Disgusting!

:puke: :puke::puke"
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. I've eaten cat before....
though it's not called "kitty parmigiana", it's referred to as "roof rabbit". No joke.

When given a choice between eating grass and dandelion leaf stew (again), or eating roof rabbit, I'll take the roof rabbit. It may taste like shit, but it'll keep you alive.
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Tacos al Carbon Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. Why is cat and dog disgusting
but not pig which is at least as smart as cats or dogs, can be affectionate but has the misfortune of being extra-tasty (and a bit large, in general, to be a convenient pet)?
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Because all of the people on this thread
who are oh-so-outraged really couldn't give a shit about an animal unless it's cute. They'll probably go home and have a hamburger or a steak tonight and think about what a horrible thing this kid did. :eyes:
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #64
92. Well, excuse me, do you suggest we start eating our dogs and
cats now, cause we eat steak?
What if this guy fed his classmates a puppy or a kitten? Would your opinion be the same then? He did nothing wrong?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #92
99. What if he had fed them venison or pork or pheasant?
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 11:12 AM by Rabrrrrrr
Those are all animals that can be raised as pets as well as food.

Would your silly indignation still hold?

"What if he served cat or dog" - what a dumb question. It's not a relevant question. He fed them animals that are known around the world as food items, and that are known in the US as food animals.

your hypoethical has no weight.

Might as well ask "Yeah, but what if he hunted the teacher? Or used his knife to slash tires in the parking lot?" Those are equally irrelevant hypothetical questions.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #99
112. Guinea Pig is known in US as a food animal? Really?
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #112
119. It IS known by people who feel the need to know about the countries
outside the US. I've known for a hella long time that people eat guinea pigs, and I'm in the US. Always have been. But then, I've long been interested in not being an insular US-centric person, and want to know about the wide variety of ways that people around the world celebrate around the table, as well as other cultural and social things.

Are they generally eaten in the US? No. I've never eaten one. But I've long known that they are food in other places.

In fact, I've long known that there isn't any animal larger than a mouse I can think of that doesn't get eaten for food somewhere by someone, except maybe cat, but I'm sure someone is eating it. A friend of mine has had rat numerous times in Thailand. Others eat lizards. I've had alligator. Dogs are food in quite a number of places.

Try to break out of your restrictive cultural learning, stop making it normative for all people, and embrace the world's cuisines and cultures and traditions.
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
101. Yes my opinion would be the same.
Please tell me the difference between eating a cow and eating a cat.
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
53. Cooking pets
I'm not thrilled that this kid killed and cooked a rabbit and a guinea pig, because I have 2 guinea pigs at home and have friends with lop eared rabbits as pets, but I eat meat so I can't say much. I was pissed off that he had received permission from his teacher to cook the rabbit so long as he hunted it himself. Then he went out and bought one. That was dishonest. I guess that's why he killed the poor rabbit with a bow and arrow - so that he could say that he had "hunted" it.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
54. He didnt torture the animals, and he didnt kill them...
just for the sake of killing them. I dont see why it would be a crime.
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plasticsundance Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Yeah ... learning to survive and duck and cover
I think this lad better learn other essentials skills for survival. Remember the skills needed by those folks that crashed on a remote mountian years back?

Does the boy have any family members he'd like to volunteer for such a service of supplying learning survival skills?

According to the American Heritage College Dictionary:

pet - 1. An animal kept for amusement or companionship. 2. An object of the affections. 3. A person esp. loved or indulged; a favorite: the teacher's pet. - adj. 1. Kept as a pet: a pet cat. 2.a. Particularly cherished or indulged. b. Expressing or showing affection. 3. Being a favorite.

Hhmm ... so I wonder what meaning of the word pet this boy's behavior falls under? He has opened up legal precedent ... in one sense. I mean ... family members are often ... sometimes ... objects of affection.

Seems like members of his poor family might not have a leg to stand on ... no pun intended ... okay ... maybe the pun was intended. :evilgrin:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
105. By your own quoted definition
It WASN'T a pet.
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Tacos al Carbon Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
57. Just because something is sold or bought at a pet store
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 04:30 PM by Tacos al Carbon
doesn't necessarily make it a pet. I can buy cute white mice at PetCo and either keep them as pets or feed them to my snake. How one regards and treats them after buying them determines whether it is a pet or not, not where it is purchased.

On edit: Whoops ... I see that this very point has been made a few times upthread. Sorry.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
59. Why are meat eaters wound up?

Jeez, I'm a long-time (16+ years) vegan and *I'm* not bothered. What the hell's the difference between a cow (four legs, fur, herbivorous mammal) and a guinea pig (four legs, fur, herbivorous mammal)?

People eat meat. To my mind it sucks, but I'm not going to make silly distinctions between different animals when no actual difference exists beyond semantics (pets vs. food).

Besides, guinea pigs were originally domesticated in MesoAmerica as a food source. Just think of them as little cows, if it makes you feel better.
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Tacos al Carbon Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Mmmmm ...
Delicious pocket-cow ...
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Calvinist Basset Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
68. Is he a future serial killer?
Those who become such have a history of **torturing** pets and small animals. That is an important distinction to make. Without significantly more information, there is really no way for us--armchair ethicists--to determine if there is a psychological problem brewing in this boy.

To digress for a moment, in the Ten Commandments, it says that we should not "murder." Sometimes, folks mistakenly translate or misquote that last word as "kill," but again, there is a difference. To "kill" is not always a bad thing--we kill cancer cells, we kill food to eat it (whether it be animal or vegetable) in order to maintain our health and life, we may even kill if we are forced to do so in protection of our own lives or the lives of those we love. And in my family's own circumstance right now, we are looking at a beloved dog who is deteriorating in health significantly and we will probably need to have her euthanized soon--a killing that will be at once merciful and heartbreaking.

Murdering, on the other hand, is to kill willingly and needlessly. I realize that determining what constitutes needless killing may be something that people could debate ad infinitum. However, that is the definitive difference between killing and murdering.

So, for me at least, I look at what this boy did and must admit that I am troubled because I doubt I could do that unless under extreme duress. But before I can fully criticize him, I would have to know if the animals suffered (for example, did he try to hit the rabbit with the arrow in a way that it would die instantly?); I would also have to know more about the situation to determine if the deaths could be categorized as "killing" or "murder."

Feel free to debate with me if you see a flaw in my reasoning.
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youngdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #68
90. I think..
Personally, I think that the child pulled this stunt to get attention. He knew that by going to a pet store purchasing two common childhood pets, slaughtering, and then cooking them he would raise a few eye brows. He is? probably not a popular kid, now he is headline news.

I do not think the child is a potential serial killer, if this was the case it would have probably been the neighbors pet, and "killed' in private. The neighbor would have never known what had become of the pet.

I do not condone this in any way. If the kid was stranded somewhere with no food, and a guinea pig or rabbit happened to wander by, I can see him hunting and eating the animal. However, the last I checked guinea pigs are not a wild animal in this country. He wanted attention, he got it.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
69. In principle, this isn't different than other meat eating
But it is non-normative for this society. In that sense, it may indicate that the young man has a problem. But he may have done this to make a point about cultural practices, or merely shock value. Neither would be surprising in a 16 year old.

Actually, the article says he just wasn't successful catching a wild rabbit, so he used the store bought rabbit instead.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
72. What's with some of you people?
Killing, skinning, and eating a domestic rabbit and guinea pig and providing it for a meal to classmates who probably have similar pets is morbidly twisted.

As far as hunting goes, it's unnecessary for most people in this day and age, and it's a macho egotistical satisfaction for others. In short, it's stupid unless you're starving.

And in a survival class no one needs to see live demonstrations with animals. Most people will never be in a survival situation anyway, and believe me, if you ever are caught in one you'll figure it out real quick. Do or die, sink or swim.





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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Some of us people are tired of the DU double-standard.
DU fosters a serious dislike for those of us who don't eat animals, yet is more-than-ready to get all indignant because someone dared to eat a "cute" one.

Personally, I think eating meat is disgusting, whether it's a guinea pig or a cow. But I don't think any meat-eaters have room to talk when it's finally shown to them what is necessary to put that steak on their plate.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. I do understand your point
:(
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #73
93. Well, sorry.
Just cause we eat meat, doesn't mean we have to condone animal abuse.
:eyes:
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #93
98. Bwuhahahahahaha!!
Where do you think all that nicely shrinkwrapped meat in the grocery store comes from?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. My point exactly.
They must think it comes from steak trees.

This guinea pig probably had an easier death than the cows or chickens that are butchered in factory farms.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. or poison yourself because you don't know how to do it....
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 06:24 PM by DoNotRefill
properly.

BTW, you DO know that he didn't kill the animals at school, right? And that any student who didn't want to watch it was excused and allowed to leave the room, right?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #72
106. "morbidly twisted?"
or culturally distasteful to you?

This whole thread is kind of like watching Phelps. He sees homosexuality as repulsive (okay, I can accept he's personally repulsed by the thought of being in a homosexual relationship). But then he makes that extra jump to say because it's not within what he personally finds pleasant or what he was raised to think was acceptable, it's "immoral". But he's got no real reasons why, beyond an emotional "it's icky, and if you can't accept that it's unnatural, than you are sick."

Two consenting adults in a loving relationship? What's really the problem?
Butchering an animal instead of purchasing it shrinkwrapped at a store? What's really the problem?
Eating a rabbit that grew up in a pet store instead of eating a cow that grew up on a farm? What's really the problem?

I'm fed up with people deciding that stuff they personally find distasteful needs to be illegal. If you don't like it, don't do it.

(Aside from that, again, it wasn't a survival class, and there was no "live demonstration" with animals.)
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
75. Hello??? Killing a tiny animal with a bow and arrow?? Not cruel?
Hmmmm... How fucking hard was it to hit the target? This is outrageous.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. I'd think it would depend....
on if he had it tied up or not.

Generally, however, domesticated rabbits are pretty friendly and will not run away unless you've abused them.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #75
103. "cruelness" is not related to how easily he hit the target
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 01:27 PM by lwfern
Cruelness has to do with the suffering of the animal, not with how evenly the man and rabbit were matched. Obviously it's not a fair match, not under any circumstances including hunting in the wild or trapping. No animal we kill for food is an even match, or intended to be - if it were, the animals would kill the humans half the time. Whether or not the animal was a pet is also not relevent in determining whether the death was cruel or not.

The amount of suffering was likely the same or even less than what you get from hunted or commercially butchered animals.
Animal cruelty has to do with deliberately and unnecessarily causing pain to an animal for fun - outside of the PETA/vegetarian groups, it has never meant killing an animal for food.

The only two issues I'd have is that the boy lied to a teacher, and it sounds like he may have fed one to his classmates without disclosing what kind of animal it was. People have a right to know what they are being fed, for health, allergy, and religious reasons.

Actually, thinking about it, the easier it was to hit the target, the less likely it was to be cruel. A sloppy hit that wounds but doesn't kill an animal is far worse.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
94. Good. Persecuting him would have been a travesty.
He did nothing wrong. He killed two animals in acceptable and normative styles, cooked them, and ate them.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. He fed two pets to his classmates.
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 10:54 AM by lizzy
Did he tell his classmates they were eating pets bought in a pet store? What if he cooked a family dog or a cat and fed them to his classmates? Would you still think it was a normal thing to do?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Ooooh, he bought them in a pet store. Boo fuckin' hoo.
It was a rabbit, which is a very acceptable food animal, and a guinea pig, which is a very acceptable food animal.

Just cuz they're from a "pet store" doesn't make them a "pet". How ridiculous. Try to shy away from the emotionalistic response, and see this for what it is - the kid took two food animals, killed them, cooked them, and ate them.

Who cares whether he got them at a pet store or in the wild?

Sheesh.

Dog and cat would be different because, if memory serves, it's not legal to serve cat or dog, and most likely not legal to kill them except to euthanize sick or abandoned ones.

Some people need to get over the "pet" bullshit. What, you've never raised animals for food? Farmers kill their "pets" all the time. Our family did.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. i hope she gets some good therapy--
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #97
113. Guinea Pigs are not acceptable food animals...
Not in US, sorry. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. Wow, arent you so ethnocentric...
Are you going to claim that Puerto Rico isnt part of the US?

There apparently is a dish that is served there and the animal that provides the meat is a type of guinea pig.

In parts of Asia and around the world Dogs are an appropriate source of meat.

During the Great Depression cats were euphemistcally called roof rabbit.

So why dont you get off your high horse. Its all meat. As long as no one was torturing those animals I dont see why it should matter.
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. If they are unacceptable to you then don't eat them. Pretty simple
I will not tell you what you may eat. If you eat something i find distasteful i will simply not join you in eating it.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #113
118. Not acceptable by whom? You?
Why don't you open your eyes and notice that there's a world out there that exists beyond you and your dearly held notions of what is proper food and what is improper.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
122. Beginnings of another Damer
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