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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:02 AM
Original message
US prepares invasion of Venezuela: Venezuelan ambassador
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 09:03 AM by Minstrel Boy
US prepares invasion of Venezuela: Venezuelan ambassador

www.chinaview.cn 2005-01-28

The United States is preparing a future invasion of Venezuela to control the petroleum of the South American country as it did in Iraq, said Venezuela's acting ambassador to Paraguay, Elmer Nino.

Nino, cited Thursday by local Paraguayan daily ABC Color, said the present diplomatic crisis between Venezuela and Colombia was created by the United States as part of its future plans for an invasion.

...

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez froze his country's diplomatic and commercial ties with Colombia in early January to protest what he called Colombia's "kidnapping" of a rebel leader in Caracas, the Venezuelan capital, which he considered as a violation of Venezuelan national sovereignty.

The government of Colombia rejected Chavez's demand to make apologies to end the dispute.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-01/28/content_25...
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have been wondering if all the sabre rattling at Iran was a
diversion from where we really are going to invade next.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Or, vis-a-versa.
Then again, maybe BushCo is going to bomb both Iran and Venezuela. Think of what that would do for the spot market price of West Texas crude!
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Guns Aximbo Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
67. There is no Oil in Iran
But don't be fooled. I think we will be going to Iran. Remember, The U.S. never forgets and we have a very old score to settle with Iran (in our warped view of things).

Sooner or later we're going to deal with them.
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clem_c_rock Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. Funny - I thought the Chinese just secured a 70b oil contract w/ Iran
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Venezuela, also!
Last Updated: Friday, 24 December, 2004, 14:04 GMT


Venezuela and China sign oil deal

China has become one of the world's major oil importers
Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has offered China wide-ranging access to the country's oil reserves.
The offer, made as part of a trade deal between the two countries, will allow China to operate oil fields in Venezuela and invest in new refineries.

Venezuela has also offered to supply 120,000 barrels of fuel oil a month to China.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4123465.stm

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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
98. Bu$h NEVER found any oil when he was an oilman -- so now he's STEALING it
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 12:29 PM by Vitruvius
from other countries -- using OUR armed forces for his private profit. And he doesn't care how many people he gets killed -- whether US soldiers or Iraqi civilians or -- in future -- Iranian or Venezuelan civilions. Not so long as he gets "his" oil.

A friend who's a petroleum geologist with a major oil company told me years ago -- referring to Bu$h -- that "That boy couldn't strike oil in a refinery". Which is why Bu$h turned to armed robbery -- using OUR armed forces.

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Guns Aximbo Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #75
92. yeah... no appreciable amounts of oil.
I thnk there's more in Texas than in Iran.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. There's only, oh, 94 billion barrels of oil in reserve in Iran.
There's 22 billion here and 63 billion in Venezuela. So, there is more in Iran than the US and Venezuela COMBINED.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #67
82. You wanna pipeline between Iraq and Afganistan?
Or China? That pesky caspian Sea. Iran is strategic as hell. Can't do it without them.

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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #67
88. Look again. 4th largest producer of crude oil. (Iran in 2000)
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #88
91. Beat me to it.
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Guns Aximbo Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #88
94. But, but, but ..... I'll shut up now
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
106. What are you talking about? "no oil in Iran"??????
I hope you're kidding! There is a huge supply of oil in Iran!

:kick:
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
81. Perhaps the saber rattling is for the benefit of China and Russia -
I think they are getting too cozy with Iran and Venezuela for Shrub's comfort, but he can't do much about it right now - his hands are full with Iraq. Sort of a "don't you be going over there now, that's still mine". :shrug:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Maybe. I thought it might have to do with hanging onto Colombia.
But warning off all these interlopers makes sense too.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. This mal-admin is so twisted it is getting harder to tell what they are
really up to. Lately, they seem to be making moves of desperation. And that's the truly scary part. No telling what a cornered animal will do in the interest of self-preservation. I don't think the well-being of the American public is first on their minds right now though.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. "making moves of desperation"
Yes, noise for it's own sake. The whole Iran things seems to
be an escalation in the noise level based on failure to get
any movement with the previous sabre-rattling.

The situation in Venezuela seems analagous to that. The US foreign
policy wonks have had their ass handed to them several times now,
their position getting weaker with each failure, and we are now down
to random provocations, whose only purpose seems to be to provide a
pretext for more of the same old paternalistic rhetoric, and the
purpose of that rhetoric solely to avoid admitting that Chavez is
telling them to fuck off and getting away with it. They don't want
that idea to spread, and they don't want to admit that it is much too
late. The enemies of US hegemony are already "emboldened".
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #90
107. "The enemies of US hegemony are already "emboldened"."
Yes. What was that OBL once said? "The US will be reduced to a mere shadow of its former self".

Remember OBL's "glee" when the towers collapsed completely to the ground when he was hoping for only the floors above the point of impact.

Gotta wonder what he's thinking now - he was looking to "embolden" the Mid-East against US hegemony and break the ties with the House of Saud. Thanks to the total incompetence of this mal-administration boldness against the US is rapidly spreading throughout the world.

It's been like watching dominos fall. It started with the fall of the Soviet Union and OBL "emboldened" by driving that "superpower" out of Afghanistan. (Never-mind the back-door deals such as Iran-Contra, and the support of OBL's "freedom fighters" or support of Saddam going on with the Reagan admin at the time). Now Iraq is putting up a damned good fight against the last remaining superpower. Russia and China are taking Iran and Venezuela under their protective wings and you've got to wonder what sort of back-door deals they might have going on.

It's almost if it were "by design", isn't it? It's very scary to step back and look at the overall picture. Even worse if you look through the LIHOP/MIHOP lenses - how deep might that really go? I don't even dare to go there.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Forewarned is forearmed, they say. nt
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. i don't think venezuela has the forces to fight against the US
even if they're only fighting a small portion. it's not that big a population.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
39. But could you imagine the resistance by the population? In Iraq they hated
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 10:01 AM by AP
Hussein, but they're resisting. In VZ, they have a democracy and a lot of people really like their government.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
52. yea, that's the one thing that would happen.
i just meant that they don't have the resources for a strong enough organized military. but the 5th column would be tremendous. and again we would start a war that we CAN'T finish. check out 4GW
it'll answer some questions, and ask some new ones...4GW is exactly what we're facing in iraq, and what we'd probably face in venezuela...and our military has no way to fight it.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #25
54. We don't have...
troops :( That is the problem... and why does this regime even need troops... they had no problem using missles within American borders... via the slip by Rummy about 9/11 flight... remember that one? that is, why, i bet all the focus on "missle" testing non-stop is going on.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. i think it all hinges on our pulling out of iraq.
otherwise you're right.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #25
61. But they recently contracted with China for oil rights. They probably
also purchased protection. Chavez is not stupid.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. yea, that's the other aspect of this whole thing that bothers me.
international alliances, with the largest army in the world, really scare me. the chinese don't have amphib capability, at least i don't think, and they don't have great airlift. but if they cause trouble in their own back yard, then we'd have to think about other things than venezuela. (not that this did any good during iraq.)

and another thing, venezuela's part of opec, if i'm not mistaken. if one member of opec is attacked, do they all withhold oil?
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Guns Aximbo Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
69. regardless of what is happening in the world
we are still the most powerful nation on the face of the earth - in regards to weaponry and our military.

Having said that, we can't really use all that power effectively.

Venezuela is So close to the U.S. that I don't think we will go there. They are pretty well armed, their military is OK (it's stronger than Panama anyway) and they have a lot of money to keep the war going.

I think it would be another terrible mistake to attack Venezuela.

So, I'm sure Bush will try it.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Not to mention that...
our boys would have a harder time killing Venezuelans than they do killing Iraqis. Venezuelans have European features, are fairly light skinned, they dress like us and the predominant religion is Christianity.

Let's be honest, it's probably easy for a lot of our troops to see Iraqis as the enemy despite the fact that they never attacked us - they look and act much different than us. It would be more difficult to rally up the troops to invade Venezuela unless they did something really bad to provoke us. Not that I would put it past this administration to create another phony crisis.
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RockStar Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Exactly Soldiers are racist they have no problem killing black people
or as the soldiers refer to them as sand Nig**** (I HATE THAT WORD) them but in venzuela they are lighter skin so they will have a harder time like Girl gone mad said.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #78
96. Ummmm today Many Soldiers are Black, Asian, Hispanic
I'm sure a certain percentage of soldiers are racist, but all soldiers are not Caucasian. Read the list of those killed in B*sh's Bloodlust and Greed Campaign. The names read like a roster at the United Nations.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. It didn't bother George H. W. Bush's good friend, Carlos Andres Perez when
he had his soldiers shoot into crowds of poor people he had just screwed over:
On February 27, 1989, Perez increased the price of gasoline and the cost of public transportation. Following an IMF model to garner foreign investment, his austerity policies hit the poorest people hardest. But Perez apparently did not expect Venezuelans to respond to "economic shock" programs with spontaneous protests, which erupted throughout the country. In some areas, rioters torched shops and set up roadblocks.

When the police went on strike, the government lost control. Perez called for a state of emergency. The soldiers fired into crowds. By March 4, the government claimed that 257 lay dead. Some non-governmental sources estimated the death toll at over 2000. Thousands were wounded.

Perez, who called himself a socialist, first imposed draconian measures on the poor and then had them shot when they objected. The Caracazo as the event became known, not only destroyed Venezuela's aura of stability but put an end to the political system that had replaced the ousted military dictator Perez Jimenez in 1958.
(snip/...)
http://counterpunch.org/landau07022004.html

This was the bastard Hugo Chavez Frias led a coup against. Chavez was later pardoned by another Venezuelan President, while Carlos Andres Perez was impeached for corruption.

He has lived at times in the U.S., and still speaks out against Chavez, as a mouthpiece for the "opposition" which doesn't seem to be bothered too much by Perez's utter contempt for the human race outside the privileged few percent who own everything in Venezuela. He's still a friend of the elder Bush's.

It's these European-descended few who are very "white." The rest of the population contains a lot of people descended from the slaves brought over to toil for the Spanish owners, and the native citizens who are Indian.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. You wonder why the world hates the US and the media does not
report it.

Read "Confessions on an Economic Hitmen". It tells the story of the US Empire build for the last couple of years .... it does not make th US look very good.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. YES! "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man" is the MUST READ of the year.
Unfortunately, too few even know about its existence.
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jandrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. The word is getting out about the book.....
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 09:56 AM by jandrok
Especially through forums like DU. I know it hit the NY Times non-fiction bestseller list. I hope that it goes to Number One and stays there for a while. It's on my reading list for certain.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Glad to hear it.
:hi:
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:34 AM
Original message
A review of Economic Hitmen on Amazon (it was #1 there)
THE LIGHT OF TRUTH, January 11, 2005
Reviewer: Nick de Saint-Germain - See all my reviews
The author was employed as an economist for an international consulting firm. But his true job was taking part in scams to enrich international banks and multinational corporations usually at the expense of poor people in emerging nations. He eventually developed a guilty conscience and quit. To expiate his sins, he has written a book exposing this sleazy business. He had difficulty finding a publisher, since those whom he approached either feared stepping on big toes or else wanted him to disguise his writing as fiction.

Perkins is at his best when he is describing what he knows well: how what he calls the corporatocracy really operates. He is less convincing when proposing leftist ideas as solutions. For example, he praises President Chavez of Venezuela as someone who has helped his people, but Perkins does not mention how Chavez has also propped up the Castro regime in Cuba.

Perkins says that the corporatocracy is not an organized conspiracy. One can quibble about the conspiracy part, but he offers no insight as to why he does not consider it organized. Even primitive life forms like ants and bees exhibit a high degree of organization. The author himself says that he keeps seeing the same agencies, companies, modus operandis, and even actors involved. Yet he would have us believe that this is a random DNA match despite astronomical odds.

He also waltzes around the maypole as to who is behind it all. The face cards in his deck--McNamara, Bush Senior, Shultz, Weinberger, Cheney, Kissinger--are all members of David Rockefeller's Trilateral Commission. Yet the "T" word is never mentioned.

Perkins says that cozy ties of government, corporations, and Wall Street began in 1974 with the Arab oil embargo. Yet he fails to mention that Rockefeller, the Ace of Spades, created the Trilateral Commission the year before.

The author says that he declined to issue the book under the guise of fiction. But fine exposes have already been done. A made-for-television classic of the 1970's called "Brotherhood of the Bell" came very close to describing Skull and Bones, a shadowy organization whose members include John Kerry and the Bush family. A more recent film called "The Skulls" was practically a documentary about it. Another film called "The Firm" told of an ambitious law student from a disadvantaged background who climbed the heights of success after striking a Faust-like bargain with a sinister legal outfit. It sounds like an allegory of Bill Clinton's becoming a made Trilateralist, except that the character in the story developed a conscience at the end.

Anyway, the author himself blurs the line between fact and fiction. Most of the anti-American statements that he quotes were made by people with whom he supposedly had private conversations who are now dead or anonymously identified.

Perkins says that legitimate anti-Western movements in emerging nations are being hijacked by Muslim extremists because of mistreatment by Westerners. But anti-American despots treat their people worse than Westerners do. It was Kadafy of Libya who ordered the bombing of a Pan American passenger plane. Ayatollahs of Iran were complicit in taking American diplomats hostage. The Afghan Taliban sheltered 9/11 terrorist bin Laden and his al Qaeda operatives.

It would be nice to see Perkins write more especially about what he knows. One has the feeling that he has barely touched the surface in this book. Forgiveness of debt by poorer nations may become an even bigger scam than what Perkins was involved in. It appears that governments--but not private banks--are going to let some nations renege on debts. The result is that money which would have gone to repay debts to governments like the US will instead be used just to pay debts to banks like Rockefeller's J.P. Morgan Chase and Prince al Waleed's Citigroup. People in poor countries will see little benefit, and taxpayers in creditor nations will be subsidizing these billionaires.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/15767...
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. Shades of Wellstone
Perkins writes, "The book was to be dedicated to the presidents of two countries, men who had been his clients whom I respected and thought of as kindred spirits - Jaime Rolds, president of Ecuador, and Omar Torrijos, president of Panama. Both had just died in fiery crashes. Their deaths were not accidental. They were assassinated because they opposed that fraternity of corporate, government, and banking heads whose goal is global empire. We Economic Hit Men failed to bring Rolds and Torrijos around, and the other type of hit men, the CIA-sanctioned jackals who were always right behind us, stepped in.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/31/154...
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fertilizeonarbusto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. I certainly hope not
Lots of jungle to shoot from in Venezuela...
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Visit this site and don't forget to sign the appeal
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
64. Nevermind - found it
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 12:40 PM by Pastiche423
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. They would likely also be fighting
the columbian rebels, who are right at home in the jungle and proficient in Guerilla tactics.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Those guys almost got Harrison Ford man.....
In that Tom Clancy Movie.....

They are tough, according to Tom Clancy, but we can take 'em....

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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. They are already doing that......
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 09:27 AM by Webster Green
One of the reasons the US is fighting the phony "drug war" in Columbia is to keep some of our black-ops guys close to Venezuela, and ready to begin the occupation when the chimperor proclaims that it is necessary.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. If Iran-Contra worked in Nicaragua . . .
why not use the same action plan against Venezuela? Think of the savings in operational costs. You can even use most of the same people. There are probably a lot of gray-haired North Americans crawling around camps on the Venezuelan border right now.

Anybody want to take bets on this one?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Well, wait until it's reported by the Washington Times ...
... and on Fox News. After all, those are the reliable news outlets, right?

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. What? Do You Really Doubt This Is Going On?
Radric - Does it have to be on the front page of the Washington Post before you'll believe it? Geez.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. That source is classified. You have no NTK
By the way, I'm no sheikh, radric.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. If he's a provocateur, I'm only mildly aroused
Wish he had more substance to his argument. It would make things more interesting.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. "the radical chic on DU"??? Nice group attack.
I guess it's easy to just engage in name-calling instead of doing one's own research and engaging in civil discussion. :shrug:
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #24
37. "radical chic"?
Been a long time since I heard that one.

Chavez isn't the radical. The Bush White House is.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. I Think that Spiro Agnew Era Reference Was to Us, not Chavez
Maybe it was Tom Wolfe, another founding neocon, who came up with the term "radical chic".

What the heck, Jeanne Kilpatrick called Ronald Reagan a revolutionary and equated Enrique Burmudez and the Contras with the Founding Fathers.

Institutional memory is a good thing. None of BushCo's foreign policy is any surprise.
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. You are right on the money on that one Minstrel Boy n/t
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. without a shred of proof?
I think that US hostility towards Chavez and a truly demoractic regime has been very apparent over the past several years.

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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
47. well there's a simple pop psych answer for you
due to the constant lies and betrayals of our own government over the last four years and the complicit MSM (bought and paid for by the embed process), many of us here tend to believe a foreign power before our own now. We also believe whole heartedly and rightfully so that the neonazicons are capable of implementing just about any evil a person could dream up.

What you are witnessing in this and similar threads is not 100% belief in Chavez but outright disgust with our own government in the form of disinformation backlash.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. I dunno... what do the Saudis think?
they would be the ones calling the shots on this one.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Psst - They're Next, After Venezuela and Iran
Haven't you read the OSP action plan, yet? Let me call Doug Feith and have him send over a copy.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. Oh yeah, I got that version... but there is an executive breifing
that you may not have seen yet...

The sad truth is... and I hate to be the one to tell you... the Saudis are really in charge.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. That's What We Led the Germans and Brits to Think Before We Grabbed Europe
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 10:10 AM by leveymg
Then we tricked the Soviets into believing that about the Caspian Basin region.

First, we provoke them into a disasterous war, and then we come in and clean up.

What concerns me is that someone else out there has learned the same lesson. How's your Mandarin?
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
73. Nee how ma?
Gung che fat soy.

That's about it... Sorry, Yo pennimyio po Russki.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
13. China is investing hundreds of millions$ in Venezuela.... duh????
You think China's going to put up with the US trying to take away the oil, when China has already signed the deal to help Venezuela build a modern infrastructure of refineries and pipelines? I don't THINK so!!

The neocons are frikkin' IDIOTS!!! They want global war so bad they can taste it!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. it's all about a "globla chessgmame" for energy...WE are the pawns
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
93. So true. Peak Oil is not a theory.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. PRC and Russia Also Got the Recent $150 Billion Saudi Contract
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 09:51 AM by leveymg
that had been promised US companies. The Saudis are still real pissed at BushCo for declassifying Saudi terrorism files.

There's no love lost if we knocked over a few Chinese-financed oil platforms in Venzuela. But, then again, the Chinese have cornered the US REIT bond market, and they could pull the plug on the US real estate bubble if sufficiently provoked.

BushCo should ponder the consequences before it acts again.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. it's sad that it's come down to this --- no diplomacy by the US anymore
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. When did we ever get what we wanted with diplomacy. Trickery worked best
America got to be #1 by leading everyone to believe we were just a nice big customer, or a neutral bystander, or everyone's best friend. We only threatened the enemies we created ourselves, at our own time, in our own way.

BushJr. was in his frat house nursing a hangover the day they taught that lesson in Empire 101.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #32
43. Bushco NEVER ponders consequences.

That would indicate forethought and planning, which are things that evolutionists do, not God anointed emperors.

Besides, they did no planning in the Iraq invasion, and look how great that turned out.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Hey, the price of crude oil today is twice what it was in 2001
If you're an oil company, you make more money in an unstable environment than a nice peaceful one. Who says BushCo hasn't been successful?
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
51. China just signed a whopping deal
with Iran a few months back, in the neighborhood of $100 billion for liquid natural gas. Bushco will probably be hearing from them when their Bomb the Ayatollahs paroxysms reach fever pitch. A few hundred billion in treasury bonds dumped into the market is the sort of threat even the Chimp can't safely ignore.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. Has Poppy been fishing in South America lately?
Cuz anytime he goes fishing, people die and gubmints change ..... it seems.

...... I'm just sayin' ....... :shrug:
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
18. How can we fight more wars? Who will support it? Where do we get
the manpower? Where do we get the money?

If this is true we surely are on a train with a madman at the controls!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. It willget "DRAFTY" soon !!!
Count on IT !!!!
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
53. Let's hope that the progressives join the Draft Boards.
I sent my application back in yesterday. I figure when the draft starts our kids need to see at least one friendly face if they are facing a draft board. Might as well be one of somebody who doesn't want our kids to die.

You are right, saigon68, times are changing back, and I hate to see it.


Laura
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. It's a Bushian pipe dream for now.
But if Jeb gets in office in '08, don't bet against it. And don't bet against our support of power hungry fascist types who would love to do the job themselves. They've lost power to democracy, something Bush can't stand for.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Personally, I hope we DO invade Venezuela
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 09:44 AM by IanDB1
Think about it:

All those pissed-off people in Central America sneaking across the border into Texas to wage a guerrilla war against America...

What more could we hope for?

Well, maybe we could hope for a major offensive in Crawford while Bushler is on "vacation" at the pig farm.

On edit:
It's about time those Republican Red-State Chickenhawks see for themselves what it's like to be on the front lines of a war.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
49. Finally, Some Irony. Kick. n/t
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
60. Its easy to fight a war, its hard to win. That's the weird part
I don't think Bush cares much about winning just creating chaos wherever possible and funneling as much money as he can into his BFEE.

I think it has been established that political support for Bush to do what he wants isn't neccessary. The BFEE has locked it all down: Repuke majority in all branches and a CIA controlled media. People can protest in the streets, but, sorry to say, it doesn't matter.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #60
85. yes, precisely--war for the sake of war
these bloodsuckers are not happy without destruction, mayhem, and suffering--it is SO-O-O profitable.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
28. Chavez should arm a popular militia now.
The Bolivarian circles must be the basis for a people's army. The old army, while purged of most rightists and compradors, cannot be relied upon for the total defense of the country. Invasion is unlikely, but subversion is real. Raising political consciousness and opposing the nation-selling "opposition" politics, in conjunction with providing arms for the people, is the best way to stave of subversion from the north.

Venezuela should also conclude concrete treaties of mutual assistance with Brazil, Ecuador and other neighbors conducting democratic revolution.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. It's not about any historical figures.
It's about countries safeguarding their independence. The sad fact is that many countries have fifth columns that won't stand up for their sovereign interests. Someone has to take a stand, and the people themselves are best qualified to do so.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. George Washinton, Thomas Jefferson and
a nunber of other Founding Fathers would have too.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. Every country in the world is preparing against an invasion
by the U.S., the pariah of the planet.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
66. You cannot simultaneously....
prevent and prepare for war.
Albert Einstein,
(1879 - 1955)

This poor World!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Thanks! Have never seen that one.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. Good quote! Thanks.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
40. Venezuela is one of the few places in the World
where Democracy is really "On the March"
The Plutocracies cannot afford to let the Venezuelan reforms succeed.

Anyone who believes that the bush* administration is not "Gaming" an invasion of Venezuela has not been paying attention. It just makes sense for the NeoCons to use the "drug war" army of their puppet in Colombia.

BTW: Chavez has bought 50 mig fighters from China.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. you forgot to mention --- they have OIL
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
50. Chinese Migs in Venzuela. Ah, worthwhile targets. So it was in Nicaragua
The Sandinistas never got the Migs. But, it was a great pretext for covert action, nonetheless.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. The dynamics have changed in the last 20 years.
Many of the bush* supporters (Corporations) are dependent on Chinese slave labor for their large profit margins, and infusions of fresh investment dollars. There will be hell to pay in the back rooms of the White House if bush* pisses of the Chinese money men.

For a refresher, remember when the Chinese captured that recon P-3 early in 2001. The initial bush* response was beligerent fist waving. 24 hours later bush* was crawling and whining for forgiveness from the Chinese.
What do YOU think happened to change the chimperor's little mind?

I am curious to see how this plays out.
I respect and support the populist reforms in Venezuela, and pray they spread to ALL latin countries.

If we are very lucky, these reforms could spread to the US.
Imagine, using profits from the extraction of OUR natural resources to provide Universal HealthCare and Univerasal Education to ALL citizens.
WOW!!! How unamerican.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. You hit it dead center. Nixon and Reagan had far more power to threaten
other major powers than does Bush the Lesser. He's rapidly using up what little latitude he has left.

Hey, if a popular revolution spreads from the periphery to the center, that would make history.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
83. Uncle Prescott came to save his ass after that little fist waving venture
of his as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2002/02/19/usat...

snip>

Perhaps the most intriguing question about Bush's China connections is whether he played a role in ending a U.S.-China standoff in April, when a Chinese fighter jet collided with a U.S. Navy surveillance plane over the South China Sea. The Chinese pilot was killed, and the U.S. plane made an emergency landing on Hainan island, where 24 U.S. crewmembers were held for 11 days.

The president's uncle traveled to China just hours after news of the incident broke. He flew aboard United's inaugural flight from Chicago to Beijing. Other dignitaries on the largely ceremonial flight stayed a few days, but Bush didn't return home for two weeks. Moreover, U.S. Ambassador Joseph Prueher met Bush but not the rest of the group.

Prueher says their meeting was simply a social call.

"I might have joined him for a cup of tea or a Coke maybe we had a beer, I don't recall," says Prueher, who left his post in June. "We spent an hour chatting."

Bush denies any involvement in the diplomatic settlement that ended the crisis.

"I couldn't possibly do something like that," he says. "It would be very embarrassing for the president if it was found out that I was going to see my friends when he was trying to work things out."

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #83
103. China has proven to be Bush Clan's Greatest Triumph, but It holds great
danger for the U.S. longterm national interest. The strategy of investment in the PRC started under Nixon was initially viewed as a counterweight to the then Soviet Union. Then, it assumed an economic and political life of its own.

The deindustrialization of America and US current accounts imbalances with the PRC may be the most important and lasting legacies of the "Opening to China" under Ambassador George H.W. Bush. If these processes continue, we're going to become little more than a bankrupt, mercenary vassal army for Beijing.

I used to think that Poppy was a pawn for the Saudis, but I'm beginning to suspect that the true masters of the Bush clan may be a more ancient dynasty further to the East. China needs Middle East and Caspian Sea oil even more than we do. Who knows, maybe Shrub really is the Manchurian Candidate.

What strange webs they do weave.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
59. Didn't Chavez just recently buy 100,000 machine guns?
I read that somewhere.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. Was talking about it back in November, in this article:
Venezuela plans to buy a lot of Russian weapons
(Agencies)
Updated: 2004-11-27 08:52


Venezuela plans to buy large amounts of arms from Russia, President Hugo Chavez said after talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow on Friday.

"We are modernising and strengthening our armed forces against any form of aggression. We are talking about deliveries of 100,000 Russian machineguns," Chavez told a news conference.

"We also told the president about our wish to acquire large quantities of anti-tank and anti-aircraft equipment," he added.
(snip)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/27/con...
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #71
104. Thanks Judi. That's it.
I'm worried about Venezuela.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. Sounds as if he thinks he may need to be the first South American leader
who's going to need to protect his country from serious American deadly threat, maybe by proxy from Colombia.

Too bad Colombia can't get a cleaner leader for an abrupt change of pace. Uribe's roots go directly back to the violent paramilitary drug-dealing mass murderers, and this applies even more to his completely compromised father.

Here's another glimpse of what kind of obnoxious tool Bush is sending billions of dollars yearly, just behind Israel in foreign aid:
May 24, 2004

President Uribes Hidden Past

by Tom Feiling

Colombias President Alvaro Uribe is, by his own admission, a man of the right. Unlike most recent Colombian presidents, Uribe is from the land-owning class. He inherited huge swathes of cattle ranching land from his father Alberto Uribe, who was subject to an extradition warrant to face drug trafficking charges in the United States until he was killed in 1983, allegedly by leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) guerrillas. Alvaro Uribe grew up with the children of Fabio Ochoa, three of who became leading players in Pablo Escobars Medelln cocaine cartel.

President Uribes credentials are impeccable. He was educated at Harvard and Oxford, is as sharp as a tack, and a very able bureaucrat. At the tender age of 26 he was elected mayor of Medelln, the second-largest city of Colombia. The citys elite in the 1980s was rich, corrupt and nepotistic, and they loved the young Uribe. But the new mayor was removed from office after only three months by a central government embarrassed by his public ties to the drug mafia. Uribe was then made Director of Civil Aviation, where he used his mandate to issue pilots licenses to Pablo Escobars fleet of light aircraft, which routinely flew cocaine to the United States.
(snip)

As the Presidential race intensified, journalists became increasingly concerned that media bosses were threatening their editorial independence. Two powerful business groups with ties to the political establishment own RCN and Caracol, the biggest television and radio networks in Colombia. Journalists concerns were further heightened when Uribe picked a member of the Santos family, which owns the countrys most influential daily newspaper, to be his vice-president.
(snip)

Mapiripn is the site of one of the worst paramilitary massacres to date, yet many of the towns residents voted for the paramilitary candidate, Uribe. Father Javier Giraldo of the Colombian human rights group Justicia y Paz was in Mapiripn on election day: There was a great deal of fraud. There were paramilitaries in the voting booths. They destroyed a lot of ballots. This was denounced to the Ombudsman, but nothing happened. Electoral fraud, widespread paramilitary threatsdenounced by virtually all the other candidates during the election campaignand the almost total decimation of the electoral left in the preceding decade all contributed to Uribes election victory.
(snip)

Uribes strategy is to bring the war out into the open, to declare social organizations illegal, and to use the army and police against them directly, while holding negotiations with the paramilitaries. Given the murderous tactics that Uribe is prepared to resort to, it is easy to understand why trade unionists and human rights defenders are inclined to feel despondent. It also makes the unquestioning support being offered Uribe by the U.S. and British governments all the more immoral.
(snip/...)
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia185.htm





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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
70. Sounds like Venezuela has our number. eom
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
76. I wouldn't be surprized
Mr. World Domination wants to be in control of everywhere that he sees $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
86. but what excuse would he give to the world?
Venezuala has WMD?
Chavez is "a brutal dictator"?
this would have to be so blatantly "about the oil"--what other possible country in the world would be in a "coalition of the killing" against Venezuela???
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Chavez is becoming too close to that nasty ole Castro
He is stealing land from the people. His government is full of greed and corruption.

He is a threat to "Freedom", we must bomb!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #86
99. Initially, the "invasion" will be preceeded....
...by a number of manufactured "incidents" with the republican (bush*) friendly (bought) government of Colombia. These incidents are already occurring.

bush* death squads(financed by US and lead by Special forces personel trained in US) will assemble in Colombia, cross into Venezuela, and take out some Xtian Missionary churches, assassinate local officials, kidnap and kill some of the wealthier residents, and such stuff. Evidence will be planted to make it look like Chavez forces are responsible.

The incidents will escalate until Chavez is forced to station a force along the border to prevent incursions by death squads. The Columbian Army built and armed by Reagan and poppy bush will spearhead the initial assault. bush* will then invoke the Monroe Doctrine to provide Air Support to protect the Democratic (right wing police state) government of Columbia.

The first stages of this plan are already happening.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has suspended diplomatic and trade links with neighbouring Colombia over what her termed a "violation of national sovereignty". He said business dealings with Bogota will be frozen until it has apologized for the kidnap of a Marxist guerrilla chief from Venezuelan soil last month.


Colombia admits paying bounty hunters to help seize the rebel, but denies its agents violated Venezuelan sovereignty.

Internet Free Press


As much as I support Chavez and the populist reforms he has instituted for Venezuela, I fear his arrogance will lead to his downfall.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. All true enough, but ...
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 12:53 PM by bemildred
They have to deal with FARC and ELN first, lest their "victorious"
army be taken in the rear. Were this not the case the scenario you
discuss would already be well in play, using Colombia as a proxy,
and thus avoiding all these annoying questions about how Bush might
justify the US attacking Venezuela. The problem is that "Plan Colombia"
is a dismal failure, the "Government of Colombia" controls only a modest
portion of it's nominal territory, and Uribe is not firm in his seat.

In a way, that is what "Plan Colombia" was all about, Colombia was
supposed to be our proxy-bully in Latin America, but it has failed to
accomplish anything, and time is running out.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. I can only pray.
Thanks.
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
95. another place to watch,
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 10:57 AM by graphixtech
according to someone who I very highly respect,
is Syria.


To learn more about the 9/11 Truth Movement:

www.911truth.org /
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nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
102. Don't believe a thing you here about Venezuela
Contrary to the reports of a spoonfed western press, Hugo Chavez was not unpopular and did not resign, says Greg Palast

Here's what we read this week: On Friday, Hugo Chavez, the unpopular, dictatorial potentate of Venezuela, resigned. When confronted over his ordering the shooting of antigovernment protestors, he turned over the presidency to progressive, democratic forces, namely, the military and the chief of Venezuela's business council.

Two things about the story caught my eye: First, every one of these factoids is dead wrong. And second, newspapers throughout the ruling hemisphere, from the New York Times to the Independent to (wince) the Guardian, used almost identical words - "dictatorial", "unpopular", "resignation" - in their reports.

Let's begin with the faux "resignation" that allowed the Bush and Blair governments to fall over their own feet rushing towards recognition of the coup leaders. I had seen no statement of this alleged resignation, nor heard it, nor received any reliable witness report of it. I was fascinated. In January, I had broadcast on US radio that Chavez would face a coup by the end of April. But resign? That was not the Chavez style.

I demanded answers from the Venezuelan embassy in London, and from there, at 2am on Saturday morning, I reached Miguel Madriz Bustamante, a cabinet member who had spoken with Chavez by phone after the president's kidnapping by armed rebels. Chavez, he said, went along with his "arrest" to avoid bloodshed, but added: "I am still president."

The resignation myth was the capstone of a year-long disinformation campaign against the populist former paratrooper who took office with 60% of the vote. The Bush White House is quoted as stating that Chavez's being elected by "a majority of voters" did not confer "legitimacy" on the Venezuelan government. The assertion was not unexpected from a US administration selected over the opposition of the majority of American voters.

What neither Bush nor the papers told you is that Chavez's real crime was to pass two laws through Venezuela's national assembly. The first ordered big plantation owners to turn over untilled land to the landless. The second nearly doubled, from roughly 16% to 30%, royalties paid for extracting Venezuela's oil. Venezuela was once the largest exporter of oil to the USA, bigger than Saudi Arabia. This explains Chavez's unpopularity - at least within that key constituency, the American petroleum industry.

There remains the charge that, in the words of the New York Times, "Chavez ordered soldiers to fire on a crowd ." This bloody smear, sans evidence, stained every Western paper, including Britain's newest lefty, the Mirror. Yet I could easily reach eyewitnesses without ties to any faction who said the shooting began from a roadway overpass controlled by the anti-Chavez Metropolitan Police, and the first to fall were pro-Chavez demonstrators.

I have obtained a cable from the CIA to its station chief in the Capitol: "Re: Coup. Activities to include propaganda, black operations, disinformation, or anything else your imagination can conjure... "

Admittedly, this is old stuff: written just before the coup against Salvador Allende. Times have changed. Thirty years ago, when US corporations demanded the removal of a bothersome president, the CIA thought it most important to aim propaganda at the Latin locals. Now, it seems, in the drumbeat of disinformation buzzwords about Chavez - "dictatorial", "unpopular", "resigned" - the propagandists have learned to aim at that more gullible pack of pigeons, the American and European press.

Click here for a whole list of interesting links from Mexican, English, South American, and even American press stories on the brutal last two years of kidnaps, propaganda, millions of dollars spent, even murder.
Otherwise here's a few I found especially telling since we know the Chimp so well by now don't we?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,687...

For a brief summation...http://www.narconews.com/alphandary2.html

For A New York Times reporter who quit out of disguist, check out his weblog since Bush and the CIA attempted their April 2002 kidnapping and coup.

http://www.narconews.com/alphandary2.html


Thbe bototm line is President Chavez, who was democratically elected by over 60%, thought it wise to help out the poor working class people like farmers and fisherman. This is a big no no to Bush and his World Bank Corporate Cronies. I suggest you read some articles. It is amazing at how much better the investigative jopurnalists in South Ameirica make the US media look like complete narcissitc sheep.
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