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Evolution Debate Stirs Up Ga. Lawmakers ("Scientific Fact" not Evolution)

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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:20 PM
Original message
Evolution Debate Stirs Up Ga. Lawmakers ("Scientific Fact" not Evolution)
(there has been a lot said on this topic lately, but this guy takes the cake)

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-01272005-44009...

Evolution Debate Stirs Up Ga. Lawmakers
By DOUG GROSS

The Associated Press

ATLANTA - A state lawmaker Thursday introduced legislation designed to prevent the theory of evolution from being taught in Georgia's classrooms.

The bill by Republican Rep. Ben Bridges requires only "scientific fact" be taught in public schools - in his mind ruling out the theory of evolution.

"It's in the book that it's a theory, but these teachers teach it like it's a fact," he said. "Let's teach them the truth or don't teach them anything."

The bill appears to face long odds. Democrats in the Legislature blasted the proposal - particularly the measure's use of the word "theory" to suggest evolution is an unproven assumption. "You mean, like the theory of gravity?" quipped Democratic Rep. Tom Bordeaux.

more:
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-01272005-44009...
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rep. Bridges could use some remedial biology courses.
Evolution is indeed a fact. It has been observed on multiple occasions.

His confusion probably comes from not understanding that evolution theory is the explanation for the fact of evoultion.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. that was my thought, too
These morons refuse to learn that evolution is a FACT.

Natural selection as a mechanism is the theory.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. That's the thing.
The leaders of this movement *must* know the truth. It's not a state secret. They just capitalize on the different usages of the word 'theory' to deceive their followers. It's really shameful.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Let me refer you to a book

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0262581116/002...

http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/0262581116BT.ht...

It's a pretty reasoned explanation that models natural selection.
I took a course on this when I was in college some 25 years ago,
and the math behind it is still solid today.

So it's certainly possible for natural selection to cause evolution,
since it can be reliably modeled.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. LOL ! "You mean like the theory of gravity?"
nt
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drhilarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I know. I just wish I could zing someone like that...
Can only teach facts, huh? Here's a fact:

Education - Theory of Evolution = troglodytes.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Me too, but it's so much better coming from a
Dem politician!
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Or, germ theory.
Why believe in germs? Aren't they just a theory? Shouldn't we stop teaching that germs exist?
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. What a moran n/t
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe Asshole needs to get a dictionary and look up "theory"
where he'd find this:

1. the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light>

Their stupidity is a, er, FACT!
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. As a college science professor in the south,
I am constantly astounded by the scientific ignorance (of some) of our elected officials. They have not a clue about what science is about and have no idea that the word "theory" in science circles is not a pejorative term.
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ArchTeryx Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Subject?
What do you teach, out of curiosity?
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Physics
and while we don't have the evolution wars to contend with, I have taught a course on cosmology in the past.
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ArchTeryx Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Micro vs Macro evolution
Awesome!

I'm a grad student in molecular virology, which actually puts me -- and my boss -- at the forefront of the evolutionary debate.

MACRO-Evolution is fairly hard to prove, and it's what the creationists go after. But what I study is MICRO-Evolution, the phenomenon that gives bacteria antibiotic resistance, and creates clouds of slightly mutated viruses whenever something like HIV goes through it's life cycle. MICRO-Evolution is easy to observe and easier to prove, and unless you're so deep into creationism as to think God manipulates every little mutation in trillions of viral genomes, it's damned hard to refute.

-- ArchTeryx
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Keep up the good fight against ignorance! Thanks! n/t
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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm thinking more like they know, but just dont care
because they're just using a wedge issue to divide and energize a certain small but very active constituency (fundies) for political reasons.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. You assume they are legitimately ignorant, as in
they simply didn't know all this.

I think otherwise; I side with the poster above. These aren't exactly state secrets or anything. These people know exactly what the words "theory" and "evolution" really mean and what they're really about, which is why they can preemptively attack (there's that phrase again!) the actual meanings.

These people have an agenda.
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. The same way they are damning the words:
Judge, Lawyer, Professor, Scientist....

...it is the "War on Intelligence" and intelligent people.
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Charlie Brown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
16. the Supreme Court ruled in 1968
that state gov'ts cannot prohibit the teaching of evolution (Epperson vs. Arkansas). This bill is already illegal before it's gotten off the ground.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Guess they won't be teaching about gravity anymore
It is just a theory after all.

Ah Georgia. Debating issues that civilized people settled decades ago.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. There is no such thing as scientific fact
Seriously. This guy's law would prevent any science from being taught.
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Sentath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Re: Seriously. This guy's law would prevent any science from being taught.
Would it?

Or could a cunning teacher use this approach, a handful of in class experiments and a library of published experiments to teach the practice of science rather than just the dull facts.

Just thinking around the problem...
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Bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. Aternate Reality Alert
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. Georgian here...just got off the phone with his office - I'm sick of my
state always being in the news for crap like this.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. He seems to be a real piece of work:
Bill seeks to fill in paternity blanks

By ANNA VARELA
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/26/05

If a state lawmaker gets his way, unmarried women who give birth in Georgia will face a question from hospital staff: Who's the daddy?

Rep. Ben Bridges (R-Cleveland) on Tuesday introduced the Baby's Right to Know Act, which would require hospitals to ask the question. Bridges said his goal is to give children access to their full medical history by identifying the biological father and getting his name on the birth certificate. It would not legally require the new mother to name the man. <snip>

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/legis05/0105/26le...
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SkipNewarkDE Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. Dismantle our nuclear arsenal, then
In the spirit of Tom Bordeaux's witty parry, I suggest we should maybe dismantle our nuclear arsenal. Relativity just being a theory, and all.
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. Nothing like living in the world of black and white!
It's just so SIMPLE (minded)
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. At least he graduated High School (I think) From his bio on his web page:


Biographical Information

* Born August 30, 1940 in Ila, Madison County, Georgia
* Five Children and Ten Grandchildren
* Member of the Cleveland First Baptist Church - Deacon
* Commerce High School in Commerce, Georgia
* Georgia's 29th Trooper School
* Retired Captain of the Georgia State Patrol

Public Office

* Elected to the Georgia House of Representatives in 1997

Community Involvement

* White County Rotary - Past President
* White County Chamber of Commerce
* Habersham Chamber of Commerce
* National Rifle Association
* AARP
* Peace Officers Association
* National Troopers Association


Contact Information
Birthday: 8/30
Spouse:
Assistant: Linda Brooks-Cooper
Capitol Phone: 404.656-0152
Fax Phone:
District Phone: 706.865-1962
Capitol Address: 401 LOB Atlanta GA 30334
District Address: 100 Sang Road Cleveland GA 30528
Profession: Retired Captain GA State Patrol

<snip>

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_peo_detail.pl?L...

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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Notice that baptist deacon ( hell that was obvious ), NRA, Police
captain, and "AARP". And we wonder why so many
people are cancelling their AARP memberships.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. In reply to my own post: The Repug Fundies are being led by uneducated
"morans."

Look at the drivel he points to as his high points!

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xpunkisneatx Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. The theory vs. fact issue
I am currently taking a class called The NeoDarwinism Paradigm and its challengers. Basically, its a philosophy class that studies Darwinism and other areas of research in the area...including Intelligent Design. Luckily, it is quite biased towards the evolution standpoint, seeing as my prof thinks ID believers are right-wing nutjobs (well, he's right!). Anyways...today in class we were discussing the Georgia sticker issue...you know, "Evolution is a theory, not a fact...it should be studied with an open mind" yadayadayada...He brought up a very intersting point...if you are going to put a sticker on a book saying that about evolution...then shouldn't you put a sticker on anything that is considered a theory?? This would include physics books, geology books, and the big one...the Bible. Wouldn't that just piss the fundies off? I think we should start a movement! haha. Basically, these ID people are so unscientific that instead of finding a scientific reason for the holes in Darwinism, the play the God card. They basically say "Well, we don't know how this happened...so God must have done it!" Try to apply that to everyday situations and you'll be in a straightjacket in no time...so why should it be taught in schools?
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