LAT: No More Internet for Them (some fed up with viruses, spyware)

[DeepModem Mom]

No More Internet for Them
Fed up over problems stemming from viruses and spyware, some computer users are giving up or curbing their use of the Web.

By Joseph Menn, Times Staff Writer


....A small but growing number of frustrated computer owners are....giving up or cutting back their use of the Internet, especially at home, where no corporate tech support team will ride to their rescue.

Instead of making life easier — the essential promise of technologies since the steam engine — the home PC of late has made some users feel stupid, endangered or just hassled beyond reason....

***

....2004 "was a real turning point in a bad direction," said technology analyst Ted Schadler of Forrester Research. "People are getting really angry. They're angry at Dell and Microsoft and their cable providers, and that's appropriate. They should be."...

***

For many, spyware was the last straw. During the last 18 months, the sneaky programs have soared to the top of the list of tech woes, triggering the most tech support calls to Dell Inc., the nation's top PC maker. Spyware lurks on as many as 80% of computers nationwide, according to the National Cyber Security Alliance, a trade group....


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fedup14jan14,0,111456.story?coll=la-home-business

[justiceischeap]

1. Simple, get a mac! (eom)

[Anakin Skywalker]

2. Damn! You Beat Me to it!

Mac Lover right here. :)

[HootieMcBoob]

38. Never had a virus or spyware or even had to call tech support

and I've had nothing but Macs since 1992! I better knock on wood :)

[Anakin Skywalker]

50. You Do Get What You Pay For.

I've own nothing but Macs. Mine were even bought refurbished (which brought the prices down to wintel level or lower) and have never had a problem. No hardware failures. No weird crashes. Brand new and depending on the model, Macs can be just slightly more expensive than the average pc but I think several years of troublefree operation is worth it. Apple could do better by beefing up the RAMs but that is easily upgradable by most users.

[QC]

83. No one is going to write a virus for something with 3% market share.

If Mac ever managed to break into, say, double digits, then it will be targeted.

[HootieMcBoob]

87. it still wouldn't be nearly as easy to remotely install spy ware

for example. I have to enter a password whenever I install any kind of new software - the operating system just wont accept it otherwise.

[Mika]

109. LOL

"for example. I have to enter a password whenever I install any kind of new software - the operating system just wont accept it otherwise."



At least you think so. :eyes:

[buzzard]

137. I hope they don't I love my Macs. n/t

[AuntiBush]

104. Me Three!

Luv Mac's! Never a prob! And GORE is sitting on the board now. Read something about it the other night. Did you know he's got something to do with Google, too, and he's known to have been the father of the internet, as well.

A lot of the info is on the left bottom side at http://www.patriotsforgore.com/.

[indianablue]

4. I am a Mac user also..

I am sure you are going to get flack by staying this with the usual talking points. Mac's are slow and too expensive.

Mac's can be hacked and are open to viruses and spyware but unless it gains significant market share it will be safe :)

[phrenzy]

6. For What?

Just curious. What are macs 'too slow and expensive' for exactly?

Are they..

Too slow for surfing the net? No.

Too slow to play mp3s? No.

To slow to watch DVDs? No.

So slow to do all at the same time? No.

Expensive? Umm, maybe you've not heard of the mac mini - unless you can point me to a comparably priced Dell, Sony or Compaq that is 6 x 6 inches wide and 2 inches high. I didn't think you could.

Oh, and maybe you've heard of OS X - which is based on UNIX? Yeah, I don't know if you know, but UNIX has sort of a reputation for being a secure OS. Well, now you know.

Stop spreading FUD please.

[indianablue]

8. I am saying what WINTEL people say.

I agree with you totally.

OS X is awesome :)

I am just telling you what WINTEL users say.

As for Mac mini.

It has no keyboard, mouse, monitor etc and sparse ram for OS X.

So its price is a little misleading.

[phrenzy]

10. Sorry

Oops, sorry - my bad for jumping on you.

My knee Jerk mac defenses went off :)

[Mr_Spock]

95. y'all Mac people make me laugh

A "Mac attack" just waiting to happen...

[alfredo]

102. Add a Logitech Play Station 2 keyboard which costs about $19.95

and a equally inexpensive two button mouse, and you got all you need. Or you can use the ones from your PC. Just plug it in and enjoy.

RAM, have more installed at purchase.



I wonder if that is an empty clip on the front corner. It sure looks like one.

[jayfish]

77. Stop Coveting An Operating System.

http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid14_gci965235,00.html
http://apple.weblogsinc.com/entry/9657777232255290/
http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/evo/evo106.html
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,63528,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3
http://www.securemac.com/macosxsetuidroot.php
http://www.securemac.com/macosxsudo.php
http://www.securemac.com/malevolence.php

Also Macs are slower and more expensive than their PC counterparts. Does that mean that Mac are bad? No. I just means they are not Gods own machines. And yes given enough time and market penetration HaXors will train their sights on Macs.

Jay

[bpilgrim]

126. forbes.com: Apple's Superfast Supercomputer

http://www.forbes.com/technology/enterprisetech/2004/10/26/cx_mh_1026aapl.html

see also...

Supercomputer Spurs Scientific Computing on Macs
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1491375,00.asp

Thinking Different, Saving Money
http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,60559,00.html?tw=wn_story_related

Mac Supercomputer Joins Elite
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61252,00.html

oh, and do you want security with your power?

November 24: mi2g Intelligence Unit (London) reports that Mac OS X and BSD Unix are the "world's safest and most secure 24-7 online computing environments".

Their conlcusion? ...

"More and more smart individuals, government agencies and corporations are shifting towards Apple and BSD environments in 2004," according to DK Matai, Executive Chairman, mi2g. "For how long can the truth remain hidden that the great emperors of the software industry are wearing no clothes fit for the fluid environment in which computing takes place, where new threats manifest every hour of every day. There is an accelerating paradigm shift visible in 2004 and busy professionals have spotted the benefits of Apple and BSD because they don't have the time to cope with umpteen flavours of Linux or to wait for Microsoft's Longhorn when Windows XP has proved to be a stumbling block in some well chronicled instances."

more...
http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/press/021104.php

January 13: Paul Thurotte of WinSuperSite.com is gushing about the Mac Mini and Tiger:

About the Mac Mini he says:

"Grade: A. It's about time. The Mac is back, baby."

About Tiger he says:

"...I am utterly impressed with Apple's ability to deliver with Mac OS X. As Jobs and Apple fans often note, Microsoft talks about Longhorn, but Apple just keeps plugging away with their OS. Good for them. And if you're into technology, you just have to love OS X.

"Grade: A. Mac OS X Tiger will be the best release of Mac OS X ever, and it will deliver on some Longhorn features about a year before Microsoft gets around to doing so."

more...

Mac mini
Why doesn't Apple offer a stripped-down Mac is that is more affordable? "You know, I wish I had a nickel for every time someone asked me that," Jobs quipped before introducing the Mac mini. Essentially an iBook G4 without the LCD screen, the Mac mini represents a bold move on Apple's part: Jobs had always sworn that he wasn't interested in competing in the bargain basement world of sub-$1000 PCs. But with the mini, that's exactly what Apple's doing, though in typical Apple fashion, it doesn't include features--like a keyboard, mouse, and screen--that $500 PCs typically offer. And that mini will actually set you back more than an eMac when you deck it out in usable form.

So does it suck? Oh no. It does not suck. It does not suck at all. The Mac mini is a revolutionary product, one whose ramifications will be felt around the PC industry for months to come. I love it. I love that they did this.

The Mac mini is drool-worthy. The Mac mini is beautiful. The Mac mini is affordable. The Mac mini is small, quiet, and elegant. Like an iPod, it has trade-offs when compared to similarly-priced PC products. But you know what? I don't care. They're going to sell millions of these things. PC people will be able to get into a Mac for next to nothing. And Mac market share will grow. Mark my words. This is big stuff. Well, it's small. The box. Nevermind.

I love Mac mini. I love Apple for making Mac mini. And I love the thought of this thing turning around the Mac's fortune. All these years of over-pricing their products and Apple totally hit it out of the park this time. The 1.25 GHz version is just $499, though you'll need at least a RAM update to 512 MB. The 1.42 GHz version is just $599.

more...
http://www.internet-nexus.com/2005_01_09_archive.htm#110558221384765759

there sure is plenty to covet :evilgrin:



peace

[MadisonProgressive]

113. Unix Secure?

That's news to me.:shrug:

[sweetheart]

24. i was looking at the new "mini" mac

and i can't figure out whether it can connect to the internet.

Strangely, the advertizing people either left that out, or they figure
i would assume it would... or, as i finally figured on deleting the
advert from my mailbox, that the mini-mac is a standalone machine
without any connectivity.

Someone in marketing should get fired, IMO.

[mrbassman03]

27. of course it can...

I think that is implied on every computer that comes out today, at least Macs...

[sweetheart]

30. yes i found it!!

In tiny print on the company site:

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/90501/wo/0g7Ht3qkkW373Y681AZ1dRxPAZj/0.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.2.1.0.0.0.1.0

a 56K v.92 fax modem

I wonder if that can work with ISDN or ADSL. I frankly still fault
their marketing people for not making this clear, as it is clearly
one of the major factors in purchasing a new computer, as i've an
ISDN connection on the wall, and knowing if it will work is certainly
an issue... not whether it will connect to an ipod i don't have.

[ralps]

55. It has an ethernet connection.on the back. My cable modem is connected

via an ethernet connection.
:hi:

[NuttyFluffers]

59. i guess they could speak strict layman, but...

by now you should kinda be able to figure out what are the terminologies of dial-up modem and ethernet in the tech specs... it's... kinda basic.

in fact... on apple's front page dealing with the mac mini it has a diagram pointing out the ports on the back. one says ethernet, the other says modem:

http://www.apple.com/macmini/
*and right below the picture*

"Connect your digital devices, such as cameras, iPod, printer, camcorder or keyboard to the Mac mini over USB 2.0 or FireWire. Built-in 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet and a 56K v.92 fax modem give you access to broadband or dial-up connections to the Internet. A headphone/audio line-out jack lets you listen to stereo sound."

i really don't understand the confusion. they've made it really simple, except maybe blow up the font of those words and bold and underline it. even the UK store has the same diagram and paragraph.

[sweetheart]

76. OK then, what is necessary for ISDN

Presume i've not ever owned an apple before, and it appears i need some
sort of external modem that connects to the ethernet port. As well,
i'm not sure whether the apple software handles the ISDN connection,
and all.

As a person who's not owned an apple since the apple-2E, i've no idea.

I got burned on linux and could never get ISDN working, and finally
had to toss it in the bin and go back to windows.

Even windows won't handle ISDN without special drivers and a special
card inserted in the machine... as this little box has no such port
for an extra card, its an area of concern.

Perhaps pervious apple customers are not concerned, as they're familiar.

I'm suggesting, that from a marketing point of view, this machine
is targeted at previous windows people who are damn totally sick of
the microsoft virus mediocrity, and for the first time, apple is offering
a price-competetive model.... and needs to be aware in its marketing
of selling to those unfamiliar.

[chenGOD]

81. Umm why are you using ISDN?

ADSL/Cable is a much better option for Internet connectivity. If you have special needs that require ISDN (media streaming or a business intranet for example) then you're going to need either an ISDN router or a special card. That goes for any OS or hardware.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,353114~mode=flat (here's a thread from 2001 that might help you out).

[chenGOD]

64. Every store bought consumer computer comes with ethernet connectivity...

That's kind of a given nowadays.

[mrbassman03]

92. When they say ethernet, that implies internet...

The ethernet port allows cable/DSL/LAN to connect to the computer.

[bpilgrim]

132. here are the ports... IMAGE

Connect your digital devices, such as cameras, iPod, printer, camcorder or keyboard to the Mac mini over USB 2.0 or FireWire. Built-in 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet and a 56K v.92 fax modem give you access to broadband or dial-up connections to the Internet. A headphone/audio line-out jack lets you listen to stereo sound.

peace

[rocktivity]

61. Did the math on the Mini-mac--no sale

I'm going to move up from my Powermac G3 on OS9 to a G4 on OSX. But for the cost of an adequately-equipped Mini-mac, I can install a G4 processor and a USB card; replace my printer, scanner, and keyboard; and pocket three hundred bucks!

:headbang:
rocknation

[bpilgrim]

129. yeah, but you won't get the NEW iLife, cdr/dvd, firewire, knock-out design

not to mention 2 computers - mini + G3 - for the price of 1 :evilgrin:

btw: what model number G3 do you have?

peace

[okieinpain]

43. uhmmm, MACS SUCK. they are locked boxes. that's why no one

is writing bugs for them, or productivity software either. don't get me wrong PC's SUCK too. but the montra "get a mac", is misleading advise. I've got a PC that will keep up with anything you macie's got and I didn't pay over 400 bucks for it.

for the bugs, stay off the porn sites, stay away from the cute mouse pointers, backgrounds, and screen savers. use spybot, and adaware, and just recently firefox.

good to go.

[bpilgrim]

45. X is BUILT on OPEN-SOURCE

he who lives in glass houses and all that ;->

oh, yeah... if your on windoze, NO FUN ALLOWED :evilgrin:


http://www.apple.com/macmini

:hi:

peace

[okieinpain]

48. yeah, ok. like I said 400 bucks to do anything that you can dream

up for what 2 grand.

[NuttyFluffers]

60. sounds like you know nothing of macs then

*yawn* it was just a matter of time before comments like this show up... :eyes:

ps: and i'm a pc user, but i know a good product when i see it.

[okieinpain]

89. yep, use macs. yawn, boring.

[Kablooie]

115. But get a mac and ...

get on the port sites, use the cute mouse pointers and screen savers if you want, forget about spybot and adaware and use any browser you want.

good to go.

[Redstone]

78. Yes, but get an OLD mac

and run System 9. Save big bucks and lots of sysX aggravation.

Redstone

[Straight Shooter]

108. I wish people would quit saying "get a mac"

My software program for my clients is Windows only, and it drives me crazy to know that I don't have another alternative.

Yes, yes, I'm in the minority, but sometimes it isn't that simple to just "get a mac." There's the cost factor, too, of replacing a computer. Have a heart :)

[QC]

120. You obviously haven't seen the latest Mac product!

I just can't wait to get one!!!!!!!!!!

[Redstone]

128. QC, that "ad" is very, VERY funny!

(I've been using Macs since 1986, but am not starry-eyed about Apple.)

Where did it come from?

Redstone

[Redstone]

130. Straight Shooter, you can buy Virtual PC

Which works quite well, and lets you run whatever flavor of Windows you want to on the Mac.

Redstone

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Good....the stupid people are leaving the net!

Sorry to say this, but it ain't that hard to protect yourself from viruses and spyware.

[indianablue]

5. I agree I am Mac user but also own PC

Keep your viruse protection up to date, run a firewall, check for spyware when you can.

If all else fails I reformat my harddrive and reinstall everything for a fresh start now and then. I backup my files and then put them back on when I am done.

Most people rarely if ever update their viruses, firewall or any other updates.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Its easy though for work reasons I am considering

a MAC as my next Puter... let me see Max 10 OS, double processor G-5, what was it, plenty of ram... yep I now run plenty of... graphics heavy aplications

[Liberal Veteran]

9. The net started to go downhill noticably when AOL....

...hooked itself up to the net like a parasite.

[w4rma]

36. And then when they took over CNN, our media did, too. (nt)

[frankly_fedup2]

13. I pay a yearly fee to McAfee and they send automatic updates . . .

all the time that my computer downloads. I have had Trojans TRY to get in, but McAfee caught them and since I could not delete them, I was able to quarantine them until McAfee made it possible for me to delete them.

What is up with Macs? I've been wanting to get a laptop and I wanted a Mac; however, their over $2000.00.

I have a Dell desktop and with my up-to-date on line McAfee protection and firewall, I really have not had any problems. I also store most of my files on line. I was going to buy another hard drive (about 120 GB); however, I decided just to pay for a service on line to handle all that and it's worth it. My computer stays clean and nothing much to slow it down.

However, I want a Mac. I hear they never crash. Also, they never get viruses, Trojans, or worms? If that is true, then it's worth it but, again, with what I use, my computer is pretty well taken care of.

Getting a Mac kind of scares me because I know absolutely nothing about the programs used. The main one that lets you record a video and audio is extra and it's like $200. All in all, the Mac seems a lot more expensive. Is it because it's perfect????

[indianablue]

18. Nothing is perfect...

Not all Mac's are over 2000 K

they have various price points.

I sujjest you go to Apple store if one is near you and check them out.

[frankly_fedup2]

28. I wish we did. I live in a small town and have to drive 2 hours at . .

least to a mall and then they don't have an Apple store.

I have priced even the refurbished ones on line like at Overstock.com and some others and they too are over $2000.

So do you have a Mac, and if you do, is it like the advertise, no lock ups, no error messages, and now no viruses, etc?

[burrowowl]

41. Go to the Apple Store

on the net as well as MacAddict (a magazine) for info.

[ralps]

56. The apple website lists various laptops. such as the iBook g4

Here is a little bit about it. "Surf the Web, chat with friends, do homework, play games, even burn DVDs and CDs to create your own video or musical masterpiece. In your favorite café. At 2 a.m. The iBook G4 delivers today’s digital lifestyle to your backpack, starting at $999. The website for this is http://www.apple.com/ibook/
:hi:

[frankly_fedup2]

106. Thanks Indianablue, burrowowowl, and ralps for taking the time

to help me out. Thanks for the website ralps.

Kind of makes since what people are saying as far as no viruses and such.

One thing though . . . has everybody noticed that on TV, in movies, commercials, whatever, they are always using a Mac? I never see anyone using just a PC they all have the Mac emblem.

Mac sure has got some great contracts with the media.

I'm definitely getting a Mac laptop because I mostly use my desktop for Internet, video, and pictures. I love the Quick-time player and upgraded on my desktop to the latest version because it is so much better than Real Player and Windows Media Player.

[SeekingDemocracy]

32. I have 3 Dells...

...and am ready to toss them.

Just found out Michael Dell gave junior $250,000 towards the make-believe inauguration part 2.

:puke:

[Anakin Skywalker]

49. Sorry You Had to Find Out

this way. I found out from listening to how many Rethugs defend Dell and its unscrupulous practices (I used to have conversations with Rethugs). I knew then to put Dell on my Sh*t List. If the majority of Rethugs support something, you know it's gotta be fishy.

[DeepModem Mom]

69. Thanks for posting, SeekingDemocracy, and welcome to DU!

[SeekingDemocracy]

86. Thanks!! (nt)

:hi:

[frankly_fedup2]

107. Glad to know. I wish I could afford to trash mine, but I'm sure . . .

gonna let them know I'm never gonna buy another one.

If you are interested in finding out by a name, address, or area in particular who donated to who, this site is da bomb.

<http://www.fundrace.org/neighbors.php>

[catzies]

105. Everyone in my office has Macs except me. Theirs crash ALL THE TIME

Ther has never been a day when everyone's machines (and the 2 Mac servers) were all working for everyone all at the same time with no problems.

I have the only PC because I'm the bookkeeper and QuickBooks and Quicken for Mac are inferior to the PC versions.

My computer never crashes and I can do everything all by myself. The Mac people are constantly on the phone with one tech support or another.

[bpilgrim]

131. and the situation is the reverse at my office

we don't even have any tech support for macs inhouse - that's me and my partners part-time job


they're probably all on old OS's... tell'm to UPGRADE :evilgrin:

peace

[MadisonProgressive]

114. I have McAfee Viruscan and ZoneAlarm Pro

I just recently purchased the Spyware Doctor by PC Tools. The first time I ran it it found over 700 spyware, adware, keystroke trackers, etc.!! I was shocked. I highly recommend Spyware Doctor. I had previously used PestPatrol and thought that was a good product, but I ran it immediately before I ran Spyware Doctor for the first time and I think it only found something like 13 'pests'.

[bpilgrim]

46. sure... the end users are just IDIOTS

:eyes:

that's ANOTHER thing that seperates MAC from WINDOWS developers... their DISDAN for their users :crazy:


http://www.apple.com/macmini

peace

[Liberal Veteran]

52. I worked in tech support for too many years.

Somewhere between the people running the entire PC World Top 100 programs simultaneously, the person who wonders which side on the cd is "up", the guy who wanted to know if could buy the internet on a disk so he didn't have to connect his computer, and the woman who deleted 90% of her system .dll files because a "friend" told her they were unnecessary.....

....you start to come up with the notion that not everyone is cut out to own a computer.

Oh, and I run Linux on one computer and Windows on another. I will probably never buy another Mac because I find nothing more annoying than the superiority complex/proselytising of MAC users. Macs are good computers to be sure, but they are hardly holy grail that Mac users make them out to be (and yes, I have owned one).

I like to build my own computers from components that I CHOOSE. Still can't really do that on a Mac.

[hyphenate]

11. Geez.

I've been online sinve 1989, and while we all admit spyware et al are pains in the ass, I would never give up the freedom of working online even if the crap got overwhelming. It's obvious the ones giving up are probably either newbies or just plain tech idiots. How much brain power does it require to download Ad Aware or Spybot, and install them? How much brain power does it require to insert a CD and install an AV program? Sheesh.

I can understand this kind of response from someone in the over 60 age range, but anyone younger than that needs a kick in the ass if they don't have the ability to follow directions.

[pdxmom]

26. Agreed

It's not something that automatically takes care of itself, but if you have a routine "exam" for your systems, it's not that big a deal. It's like having a car that needs routine maintenance.

[UpInArms]

33. my 80 year old mother

understands how to protect her computer from viruses and spyware -

what's up with people that can't understand just a little bit of information?

Good riddance to them and their stupidity.

[bpilgrim]

133. that sounds similar to the freeps argument in defense of confusing ballots

as a developer i always try to listem to end-user complaints about usability and not belittle them.

let's face it, computers are non-trivial systems and we have a long way to go before you can say they've been made 'idiot proof' if ever.

the make has always prided it self on designing the best and most consistent user interface and is something i've always admired about them and their product.

peace

[Anakin Skywalker]

12. People are so LAZY!

They don't even bother looking for ALTERNATIVES?

A while ago, out of curiosity, I typed in http://www.microsuck.com just to see if there is such a site. BINGO! Found a list of both FREE and commercial alternatives to Micro$uck.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. That's hardly fair...

To be honest, if they can't manage to protect themselves from spyware and viruses, they aren't likely to have the smarts to install Linux and get it working the way they expect.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

44. The latest versions of Mandrake Linux install quite simply and are

pretty much bullet proof. If someone would or could make an OS that ran strictly off a CD, non-rewritable, and just keep the internet files, history etc on a small HD... it would be pretty solid.... but I don't think it could be done because system files are constantly being upgraded by MS.... but pretty much only by MS. I wonder if it can be done.... since I haven't done any patches to my OS for months.. haven't had to reinstall or reboot for months.... I wonder.. could be on to something there..... If it were done... the OS could NEVER become corrupted.

[Liberal Veteran]

53. I run 10.1 on one of my boxes....

It's pretty decent, but it's still not quite ready for primetime. It still has a ways to go on the issue of being user friendly (like setting up your network and your network printer and getting special devices to work).

[chenGOD]

65. That small bootable CD you're looking for is called GNOPPIX

http://www.gnoppix.org/

Go ahead and try it out...:)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

72. Thanks for the link! Man.... just when you think you have an original

thought.... heh heh heh....

[chenGOD]

119. No worries...

It's good for showing off to friends as well. Talk comes round to computers, someone mentions linux, and someone else says "I uh ain't no computer geek, I can't run me no linux"...you grab this out of your bag or car and fire it up.

Watch some jaws drop.

[burrowowl]

42. Where I used to work

people would download the updates but never scan, some viruses spread since they wer already infected but didn't know it. IT (2 people for 500) were kept very busy.

[cornermouse]

14. I agree.

Between the spam, viruses, and spyware, its awful.

[BigMindTinyHead]

15. In the beginning there was nothing

Then it (nothing) exploded so now it's dog eat dog and boom like that.

[DeepModem Mom]

17. Hi, BMTH -- welcome to DU!

[BigMindTinyHead]

94. Hello DMM - thank you for the welcome

I like your handle. We as humans have tried to modulate our messages to others and in the process of the demodulation of fellow humans we often get our messages distorted or encoded with foreign humor that causes all sorts of complex discords.

I have hope that one day we will accept each and every one of us as brothers and sisters in arms.

[DeepModem Mom]

97. Amen to that -- and, credit for my handle goes to a family member...

who started calling me "Deep Modem" because of my computer activism; when I registered at DU, I added the "Mom," another name I'm called.

[BigMindTinyHead]

99. Mothers are the future

Whenever I feel alone I think of my mother and when others without mothers are alone I share the love and friendship from memories of my mom.

Even superman had a mother and we should never forget how we got where we are.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

19. Psy-ops against the internet phenomenon accelerates.

The mainstream media is filling up with stories to discredit the internet bloggers with accusations of 'conspiracy theorists' and scary viruses.

This is in tandem with the campaign to promote more religiousity to suppress rationality and prevent building expectations of independent reporting and respect for evidence instead of 'faith-based de-mockracy.'

"Every body get back on your propaganda meds like a good citizen."

FYI:
Any minute now the Republikkkans will make their annual public gesture against Martin Luthur King Day to wink at their racist supporters.

Keep an eye on the mainstream media for it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. It took 19 posts to spot the skinny.

-Internet phenomenon? Isn't that a scary, virusy place?

-Why, yes it is, Bob.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

54. Usually, the REAL story is not the content but the story's own context

in the propaganda matrix and info wars for our 'hearts and minds.'

Sheesh! You're right. The rest of the posts are about virus software.

People?...PEOPLE?

There is a WAR on...WAKE UP.

[thinkingwoman]

73. Yes! That's it!

You've got the right answer. You win the booby prize (which, of course, will never be a booby again because that is ruining society).

They won't have to censor the net if nobody is using it (beyond the fringe elements like us of course).

[Junkdrawer]

125. Has anyone else noticed that prosecution of true, virus spreading hackers

seemed to stop with Dubya's first inauguration?

[Neshanic]

136. True, and it will accelerate fast.

[VegasWolf]

20. If they are too stupid to use virus protection software, they shouldn't

be allowed to own computers anyway.

[KT2000]

22. Sorry but virus protection

does not always do it. I had Norton that I updated all the time and still a ton of stuff got in slowing my computer. SpyBot helped a bit and so did ZoneAlarm.
but I uninstalled them so i could put on Norton Internet Security 2005. SpyBot left stuff behind that is causing problems now and NIS 2005 had bugs that I guess are still being worked out. Blue screen, error messages now - a big mess.

I never download games, music - just Microsoft Critical Security Patches and Zone Alarm, SpyBot and AdAware.

Stupid? That comment may have made you feel better than others, but it was not very thoughtful.

[4democracy]

31. I used to have all those, too. Then I got AVG virus protection and it

seems to really work great. It is free to download.

[Adelante]

122. Oh yeah - AVG

I'm not sure if Norton and McAfee have improved over the past few years, but I had a terrible time with them in the late 90s. I started using AVG and while I was hit several times AVG snatched the viruses, isolated and killed them efficiently and I've had no infections in five years.

[arikara]

57. I just installed Spyware Eliminator after checking the ratings for them

I didn't think that I had anything on my computer but it found stuff that AdAware left behind.

[VegasWolf]

82. I used Norton in the high security mode and NEVER had problems. You

do need programs like SpyBot for the adware that Norton
doesn't handle, but good virus and adware programs will
protect your computer.

Instead of knee jerk reactions to other people's posts,
you might actually reading the post first. I simply
stated that if someone in this day and age access the
internet without proper virus protection software, they
are stupid.

I am sorry if my post made you feel inferior.

[Berserker]

121. I can tell you what is slowing down your

computer NORTON. It's a very well known resource hog. And Spybot should be used along with Ad-Aware. If you go to computer help sites there are pages and pages dedicated to just Norton problems. I will never again allow norton on any of my computers.

[Emboldened Chimp]

21. Or stop using Internet Explorer and start using Firefox

My troubles went away the second I downloaded Mozilla.

[WhiteTara]

90. I like Opera better eom

[killbotfactory]

23. Simple Solution

Stop downloading everything you see.
Stop looking at free porn sites.
Stop trying to pirate software and music.

And/Or..

Use ad-aware and spywareblaster
Use Firefox

[Digit]

29. Additional tips

If you are using a preview pane in an email program like Outlook Express, stop it right now. You no longer have to "open" an attachment to get infected.
If you see mailer daemon messages, don't automatically think they are messages coming back to you and open them. I have an acquaintence whom I believe has been infected with everything coming down the pike. Although she has two degrees and is not lacking in intelligence, what she is lacking in, is common sense.
Also, if you do not know the person, do not open the message!

I use AVG anti-virus (free), Spybot Search and Destroy (free), and Spywareblaster (also free).
I have a router I use as a firewall. D-Links DI604-about $50.
I also use Sygate Person Firewall (software-(free version).
I am connected via high speed cable access and rarely have problems.

[killbotfactory]

35. I use antivir

Also free.

www.free-av.com

That, plus ad-aware, spywareblaster, and a firewall keep me problem free. Although I just switched to the microsoft anti-spyware beta and it works very well.

No problems.

I set up my families computers with this software and it help reduce all the "uhh.. can you come over and fix my computer?" calls.

[VegasWolf]

84. Yes, I use all that but substitute Norton for AVG ( Norton is better)

and I use the Norton firewall, I never have problems.

[Digit]

123. I switched from Norton to AVG

It is a personal choice, really.

[hyphenate]

40. But, but, but....

"Stop downloading everything you see.
Stop looking at free porn sites.
Stop trying to pirate software and music."


But those are the best parts!!!

(and as I said previously, I haven't had a whole lotta fuckups
from downloading.)

I think the problem is some people are too gullible to understand a lot of things about the web in general. For crying out loud, how many people get one of those "spoof" emails that says your account needs updating, so please give us all the info we need to steal your identity and leave you holding the bag, and have actually clicked on the link to the "update page?" Or who have actually opened an email with a double extension on it? Or who do download materials and don't have the smarts to scan it with AV right from the beginning?

I admit I'm a download-aholic, and I have been since the notion of shareware was introduced to me 15 years ago, but if you don't have the grey matter to protect yourself from unscrupulous people, then your computer deserves whatever you give it. I've run AV software, anti-spyware, and a firewall for at least 10 years now, and I've never had to deal with an infected machine until I loaded XP and immediately caught a few bugs because of the security flaws in it. Those were cleaned out the first day, though, the viruses and flaws were eliminated, XP was re-installed, and no problems since.

There are a lot of people out there who have the attitude that if their 13 year old can operate a computer, well, they're adults and since they should know more, they can handle a computer as well. They forget their kids have computers in school, and that a 13 year old has had a computer in almost every facet of their lives since they were born. It takes a little time to learn and understand the technology behind a computer, and it means learning all the dull stuff in addition to the easy stuff. I really wouldn't want to see most of these people back before Windows, when DOS was a fact of life, and DMAs and IRQ conflicts meant you had to actually know something about the computer itself.

[killbotfactory]

47. LOL

I know. But if you aren't protected, stay away.

[FlaGranny]

68. I got one of those

"update your ebay account" e-mails a couple of days ago. I have McAfee antivirus and two adware killer programs. I haven't had my computer catch a virus for many years. Back in the late 80's or early 90's is the last time a virus killed MY computer. My DLS box has a firewall built in. No problems, ever.

My ONLY problem right now is the multitude of spam I've been getting. It went away for nearly a year, but now the annoying jerks are finding ways around the spam filters of my email service provider. I'm blocking every one of them, but every day I get more.

[VegasWolf]

85. Hi, this is my only issue also, they have gotten very clever in

getting around the spam detection filters.

[reprobate]

88. Spam won't go away until the protocols are changed.

There is a move toward automatic authentication query. In other words, when your server receives an email it sends back a question to see if the sender is authentic. If not, it simply does not accept it.

This would force spammers off the air because they seldom use true return addresses, and they would have to completely change their mail software. It would take far too long to authenticate millions of emails (and they do send millions at a time).

That would be the effective end of spam.

[Johnny Noshoes]

98. You mention back before Windoze

I started using the Net back in 1994 and started out with an AMIGA - yes you read it right. I had virus software for that even though the odds were next to nil that I'd ever get a virus using an AMIGA. Some people are just sort of naturally tech savvy and some aren't aware of how anything works and they get in trouble. I do think that all these stories are designed to scare people and drive them back into the waiting arms of corporate MSM.

[geek tragedy]

51. Amen. ZERO problems since switching to Mozilla and using the blaster. n/t

[renaissanceguy]

63. That's what I do.

Haven't had much of a problem with spyware. I run my Adaware and Spybot software twice a week, and I'm good.

We ought to be able to sue the authors of spyware, in which the software installs itself without our consent. That's an intrusion of privacy.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/466053

[goclark]

25. LAT's is wishful thinking

They are wishing more people will stop using the internet and
buy their biased newspaper(other than Robert Sheer.)

[DearAbby]

37. It is not a question that it is easy to rid of Spyware....The problem is

That it is an invasion of privacy and should be illegal. Like Telemarketters, they have no one to blame but their own rude behavior. Granted I too have AV and Spysweeper, and able to rid myself of these annoyances. But they still should be illegal and something done to stop it.

[NVMojo]

39. this is wimpass bushit! Did someone pay that reporter to tell this story?

I use Windows XP on one machine and Opera on another. I keep my antivirus and firewall up to date and I also get rid on spyware on a regular basis with Spyware Search and Destroy and Adaware, both free programs, because one doesn't catch everything. I have a trial program of Webroot Spy Sweeper that I will add. I run updates on these programs and run them on my machines about every three weeks. I am entirely self taught on my computers...

why are some people so wimpy?

[proudbluestater]

71. I wondered the same thing, who asked the reporter to write this one?

Too many good people are finding too much REAL news on the Internet and quitting their magazine and newspaper subscriptions because the truth is not IN there.

Spyware, anti-virus and firewalls will take care of it all. Don't know why folks give up so easy. It seems the LA Times would like others to join in, doesn't it?

Reminds me of every so often an article will run in the papers about more women deciding to stay home with their children rather than rejoining the workforce. Just wishful thinking on the part of the conservatives, that's all it is.

[progressivebydesign]

91. OMG! You both are PROVING the point of the article!!

I've owned PCs for years, and NEVER before have I ever had to own 40 fucking programs to keep spyware, adware, thiefware, scumware, spam, etc., off my computer! Do you realize what you both wrote? Since when should buying a bunch of software, running scans, etc., be part of running your home computer?

I have anti-virus, 2 firewall, several other programs all doing what you've mentioned.. YET.. I STILL have that fucking Gator Corp. all over my computer making my Yahoo accounts virtually useless. No, I don't download smilies, I don't download anything, I don't file share, and I don't view porn. Who knows how it got on here, but I have so many problems in spite of the numerous programs "protecting" my PC. Do you both realize how much money and time people are spending to protect their computers? When a few years ago, one simple anti=virus worked? That's when you realize that the scums of the internet have destroyed productivity.

I'm getting a MAC. It was my first computer, and basically, I still believe that WIndows is a rip off of their operating system in many ways.

[Mr_Spock]

100. Takes an hour or two every month or so - big deal

People don't want to do any work. I actually don't have anything against Mac's - well except that they wont run any of the math/engineering software that I use every day. I remember finding dozens of viruses on my dads Mac years ago - I guess people don't bother writing this sort of stuff for the Mac any more - oh well.

[progressivebydesign]

110. Really? and hour or two every month?? really?

Wow.. I guess I should have you come over to my house and work on my computer which is completely trashed with scum/scam/thief/spy ware. I honestly don't understand people here defending the scum of the earth.. the internet scumbag thiefs who hijack MY personal property AND the internet connect I pay for... AND hijack the LEGITAMATE ads and email from other companies.

Do you work for those people? I'm just shocked to see people defending them. I SHOULD be able to use my computer with NO extra work like that.

[Mr_Spock]

111. I dunno - it's gone through many stages over the years

I can't tell you what it'll be like in a couple of years. It's an amazing thing, the internet, but it is a complete representation of a free-market system coming together. I implicitly trusted the nerds that existed out there in the beginning, now nerd kids with a gripe and less-than-honorable others are trying to make a buck/push their own agenda. If everyone knew how clever people would be and what it would take to keep out the slime while keeping it as open and unregulated as possible...

[Occulus]

118. I've owned PCs for ten years

built all but the very first one myself. I have rarely- and I stress that- had a problem with viruses, trojans, etc. I'm on broadband now, and all I have is a hardware router, Ad-Aware, and Spybot. At the moment, I'm virus free (despite having not had an antivirus running for several months until today, when I decided to scan it- clean, by the way), and running the aforementioned two apps once a week I detect maybe a couple bad cookies.

I'm not kidding. It's almost all about your browsing and email habits, and maybe scanning for viruses on emails and downloaded programs. Lots of this- especially with today's scanners- is automatic. You may want to reconsider some "safe" websites and entries in your address book, because I'm thinking that may be where your problem lies if you don't go around installing a bunch of unknown software all the time (BonziBuddy would be one of these nefarious applications- anything "cute" running in the background is suspect). If you find just a few really good sites you like a lot, and determine they're free of bad things, great. Just don't let it get out of hand- and don't let multiple people browse the web or read email on the same account. Set up several accounts, and one locked up one for "guest".

Don't open attachments, and for God's sake turn off your email preview pane/option if it's on. Never, ever use Internet Explorer or Outlook. Use Firefox and Eudora instead.

Your very best option is to go out and get an OEM copy of XP, format your hard drive or have a friend do it for you (after saving off all the things you want, of course), install from the CD you bought, update to SP2, install all your drivers, and then download and install Firefox, Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware, and a virus scanner. I'd recommend downloading a firewall as well. You'll then want to repeat this ritual every couple months, depending on if the system seems to be getting 'clogged up'. You'll notice a definite performace degradation when this happens; it's pretty obvious when you need to nuke the drive. In fact, I'm due for that myself....

Don't complain about having to 'run a bunch of apps' to get your computer 'working right'- it simply comes with the territory. Even the biggest, baddest UNIX mainframes on the planet have something running in the background; a good sysadmin will learn how to write his own utilities for use on the fly. Ad-Aware, Spybot, firewalls, and so forth are all of that type of application, albeit far more complex than a simple script.

The internet itself is not the problem. The problem is (primarily) a program called Internet Explorer and a program called Outlook. Never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, use either of these programs. Not because they're Micro$oft, but because they are, from a security standpoint, swiss cheese and lace.

The other problem, as I said, is browsing and email habits. If going to a website makes popups appear, clean the crap off the PC and don't ever go there again, because I can guarantee you they will not clean it off the site. Stay away, browse wisely. Don't open email you don't know and trust.

And use Ad-Aware and Spybot like you would weedkiller. You'll notice a definite improvement.

[Chico Man]

124. The anti-spyware programs will not solve the problem..

A savvy tech person is still required to clean up the nastiest spyware. I'm talking about the kind that automatically fires up multiple processes that detect if the executables or registry keys are deleted and automatically replaces them. I've seen these many times.

A combination of Safe mode, HiJack this, knowledge about the registry, processes, etc is the only solution to issues like this. The article is right, and it is truly the fault of Microsoft, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm also self taught on computers, and I'm a software engineer.

[Cookie wookie]

58. Some macs can be bad apples

I've had a few in a row at work, but the lack of viruses and all the trouble that goes with them is a big plus. I watch everyone else having to work hard to update everything diligently and often. I keep virus protection up to date and also just got Internet Cleanup installed.

Now they got me a G5 with Panther .... that's another story. It is hand's down the best computer I've ever owned, what a dream boat, and I've been using Macs since the first one said hello.

[LiberalHeart]

66. Was your first computer a Mac?

I switched to a Powerbook last year and couldn't get back to a PC fast enough. My friends had told me over and over that a Mac is "elegant" and "intuitive" but I never knew what the hell I was doing on it. There was nothing natural about it for me, and I always felt lost.

Also, I use Word Perfect, something that isn't available (at least not in a good version) on the Mac -- unless Virtual PC is used, and that is the slowest thing that was ever invented. I sold the Mac for half what I paid for it after a four-month struggle. Now I have a Panasonic Toughbook CF-W2 that I love. It's my second Toughbook; they're real workhorses and I've never had trouble with viruses or spyware because I use software to weed 'em out.

The reason I ask if your first computer was a Mac is because I'm wondering if preference is mostly a matter of what you started with ... If I had begun computing with a Mac, maybe I would have been less baffled by it. Maybe after ten or more years on a PC it's too late to be enlightened.

[Cookie wookie]

80. Yes, my first computer was a Mac.

I have used PCs at various times in between when I had no choice at work. With the introduction of OSX I would have thought PC users would feel more comfortable on Macs though, as the interface is so PC like, which I have hated. However, the system is much more stable with X and Panther is to me what you described about your Toughbook, a real workhorse and steady as a rock. Wish it had the old Mac interface, though, because it's more work and time consuming managing files, and not being able to designate which folders to default to. When I use a file, I want the folder it's in to automatically be the one that file is saved to without having to relocate it with the finder. If there is a way to set that up in the preferences, I haven't discovered it yet, but it is a huge annoyance and the very thing I never liked about PCs.

[LiberalHeart]

103. That explains why the buyer of my Mac is so unhappy...

She went from an old Mac to the OSX system I sold her. She says she's having trouble figuring it out. I never used an older Mac so have nothing to compare my ex-powerbook to. The only files I save are in my photo program and my word-processing program, so it's very easy.

[NuttyFluffers]

62. they could just get two cheap machines.

one for word processing, photos, accounting, etc. and then have another machine for internet tasks. that's what i'd suggest for these people, sounds like the internet and computer are too complicated for them to keep up with. sometimes i don't blame them, sometimtes people really don't want to be bothered with the maintenance. sometimes i'd just suggest most of them to 'get a mac and don't look back.' i'm a pc user, but i realize most people aren't cut out with the patience to deal with the madness and wild west atmosphere ibm pc clones with microsoft operating systems on the net have become.

though, having done retail, some tech work, and a bit of tech support i can most assuredly attest some people really aren't cut out for using computers. it's just beyond them, kind of like critical thinking for certain republicans.

[Horse with no Name]

67. It's not that hard

to keep your PC maintained.
To start with--just keep in mind that Norton sucks as an antivirus.
I use free AVG and rarely have problems.
Once a week I do an in depth scan with Panda which I highly recommend even with daily scans--it is amazing and pulls out viruses from deleted emails and files that other scans don't find.
Takes about 4 hours to scan though but well worth the time.
I use a router for a firewall.
I run ad aware se once a week.
My computer is old and I wouldnt trade it for a new one--it works great and I rarely have problems with it.

[Voltaire99]

70. They're quitting the Net? Good news indeed.

The fewer people we have spreading viruses and worms, the better. If you aren't sensible enough to use a decent browser (Firefox), a decent email program (Mozilla), a decent spyware detector (Ad Aware), and a decent antivirus program (AVG)--all of which are free--then you really shouldn't be online. Go back to TV, please.

Of course, you can also run OS X from Apple. I run both Windows and Apple machines, and both can be used safely--but the Apple is immensely more pleasurable and trouble-free. I'd urge anyone here considering dropping Windows to get one of the new $499 Mac minis. There may be a few extra costs at first (especially if you require, say, Office). But you'll save time (which is money) as well as stress (which is life-shortening) in the long run. :-)

[wishlist]

74. I finally switched to Firefox recently after getting fed up with spyware

I have managed to keep my same computer with Windows 98 and Explorer running smoothly for 5 years, but it has taken a lot of time and vigilance. But I finally got fed up recently and started using the Firefox browser and for the first time, I am not picking up any adware or spyware from routine browsing. I already had high security and cookie and popup blockers, good firewall and virus protection and did not visit any suspicious sites or do any sharing and very little downloading, but I was still getting all this junk requiring constant use of Spybot and Ad Aware and Registry Mechanic every few days. So far I am pleased with Firefox after getting used to its glitches.

The situation has gotten out of control if you have to spend hours each week to protect and maintain your computer and still get paralying bugs that can take days to fix.

[DownNotOut]

75. Admins beware; there is an obvious market.....

[paper chase guy]

79. Haha, this is some pretty "interesting" journalism.

I like how they support their conclusions with concrete evidence instead of anecdotal quotes from a bunch of people.

I like how they don't use farcical quotes from industry trade groups that would probably love there to be spyware on 80% of all computers.

Really, I don't believe some of the people in this article. They make it sound as if the average person has to have seven degrees in computing just to keep their computer clean.

"Then her daughter went on the Internet to research a paper on the issue of breast-feeding in public. As if she had typed in a magic word, spyware ads for porn sites popped up and wouldn't go away."

Methinks she was doing more than researching a paper.

[MadisonProgressive]

116. "Methinks she was doing more than researching a paper."

LOL. But my sweet little girl would never think of visiting a PORNO site!!!:spank:

[Blue_Tires]

93. i knew this would start after we passed 2001

"open the pod bay door, HAL....HAL? are you there?"

[PowerToThePeople]

96. Strange no *nix users here

Seems OS systems would be highly touted around these parts..

edit- nm, found some *nixers up in this thread, yea!!

[timtom]

101. They've got a point.

I'm a PC user and I must be loaded with viruses and spyware. My computer is acting weird. I can log on to the internets, but no matter what I try to do, I keep ending up back her on democraticunderground.com. I can't view the President's web site. I just get some kind of spoof. I can't even get to freerepublic.com.

I'm totally at a loss. (But, strangely, I never get any popups...oh, wait. I'm using firefox.)

And, just in case, I better include the obligatory <sarcasm off>.

[zann725]

112. Leave it to the LAT to try and scare users of the Internets!

If they can just curtail us pesky bloggers who are fast-replacing the media at acquiring and spreading news.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

127. That's precisely what I thought

when I saw this article. Admittedly, you have to wade through a pile of crap to get at the real news on the internet; but at least you know it's out there.

What's the point in reading American Pravda?

[MadisonProgressive]

117. I highly recommend

an IBM z990 running the the z/OS operating system. That's what I use at work. It's never had even a single reported virus!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

134. The LA TIMES wants us to stop reading news off the....

internet and start buying their propaganda.

[Neshanic]

135. This is the planted message. Chimpy "saves" the internet.

It's so scary. It's so....vast. The planting of stories concerning internet security, a new super "safe" network, and we have the final piece to total control over all information.

I am hardly the IT guy, but I do not have any of these problems. Have a laptop, and two desktops.

Macs? When they run Autocadd.