Del. Cosgrove pulls bill after Internet fuels fiery protest (fetal deaths)

[Catchawave]

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=80...

By CHRISTINA NUCKOLS, The Virginian-Pilot
© January 11, 2005

RICHMOND — A Chesapeake lawmaker withdrew a bill on Monday that would have required women to report fetal deaths, after he received more than 500 e-mails from people concerned that the measure would punish women who have miscarriages.

Opposition to the bill, HB1677, was generated by “blogs,” personal Web sites set up by individuals who post information and encourage discussion about topics of interest to them.

Del. John A. Cosgrove, R-Chesapeake, was shaken by the speed and volume of the response as word of his bill traveled across the country via the Internet.

“I’ve never been blogged before,” he said. “The tone of the e-mails has been disgusting. It’s, 'You’re a horrible person. You ought to be cruci fied.’ And those were the nice ones.”

Cosgrove said his bill was intended to add more teeth to laws penalizing women who abandon full-term infants after birth.

more....

[Clark2008]

1. Good.

Maybe we can get legislation passed that require legislators to actually THINK through their bad bills before submitting them.

[gottaB]

2. Mistreated?

Who's being mistreated here? So the citizens don't like his intrusive, punitive legislation. Boo hoo hoo. Maybe he really is a horrible person.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. It's only just beginning.

[liberalhistorian]

4. Finally getting a taste of his party's

own medicine, huh? While I agree that the emails should have been written in a more diplomatic, civil manner, and hateful emails never work, his side is far more likely to be hateful and mean-spirited towards the opposition than we are.

And if he'd wanted that hateful, bigoted, sexist, misogynistic, fascist, intrusive, insulting Nazi bill to "add more teeth to laws penalizing women who abandon full-term babies after birth", he should have damn well written the bill specifically for that instead of writing it in such a manner as to include ALL fetal deaths, including miscarriages, and to make no distinction between miscarriages at eight weeks and abandoning a viable, full-term baby at birth.

I don't buy his bullshit explanation at all, I think he only changed it after he began receiving the indignant protests he so richly deserved. He just expected women to roll over and be doormats to whatever he and his women-hating patriarchal misogynistic 17th-century male colleagues wanted to do to us, boy was he shown wrong!

I have no problem at all with trying to protect abandoned full-term babies and for getting justice for them, but that's not what this bill is about. Why couldn't he have introduced a bill allowing women to leave their newborns with hospitals, agencies, or a number of other places, no questions asked, like many other states have done or are doing? The states that have implemented such laws have seen a drastic decrease in the number of babies abandoned in trashcans, alleys, etc.

As for creating the protest that made him see the error of his ways, WHOOO-HOOO, way to go, ladies!!!!!!

[Dave Reynolds]

5. Poor baby,

someone talked mean to him.

He should take his ball and go home now.

[liberalhistorian]

6. Preferably far away from

anything to do with women!!!!!

[Catchawave]

7. The Power of Blogdom, eh?

I think the results are beautiful, and may be our only hope, as you can see, starting at the local levels.

Though I don't agree with sending legislators "nasty-grams", I think the power we hold, as DUers, and all our bloggy cousins, is a power we shouldn't take advantage of.

[noamnety]

8. My email to him was disgusting

I'm not ashamed to say it. I found my email offensive. I thought the consequences of his bill were disgusting, and I said why in explicit terms.

If he doesn't want to hear about the details of what comes out of women's bodies he shouldn't write bills demanding to know.

[Catchawave]

9. *kick for local voices*

[livinginphotographs]

10. Awwww, poor baby.

So he was "blogged" on the "internets" and "we" found him to be an "offensive pig."

Fuck him. I thought the Republicans were all about living with the consequences of our actions. If you're going to act like a psycho Taliban fundie, you deserve it.

[Catchawave]

11. I agree with all of the above....

you guys rock...errrr...are the best

[Ian David]

12. Just because the bill is dead doesn't mean we have to stop bothering him

Obviously this stuff gets under his skin.

We should find some excuse to flog him daily

[livinginphotographs]

15. I like the way you think.

Someone suggested mailing used tampons to him. I agree. Keep doing it until this son of a bitch resigns.

[Karenina]

37. How much you wanna bet

that the prospect of receiving CARTONS of used "feminine products" ran him off?

[liberalhistorian]

13. The Repubs are only for DEMS

living with the consequences of their actions. And, unfortunately, he has no idea that he's a psycho Taliban fundie, he thinks he's a benevolent patriarch.

[Ian David]

14. Armchair Activism and The Cosgrove Effect

Please see my post here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[liberalhistorian]

17. I just read your post, and I have to say

that I think he got WAAAAAYYY more than just 500 emails, he just doesn't want to admit the extent of the firestorm against him and of women's opposition. Typical coward.

[Ian David]

23. Isn't that a matter of public record?

Does anyone want to file a FOIA request to find out how many emails he got?

[Catchawave]

32. Armchair Activism and E-Bombs....

Probably why we should knock off those "copy&paste" e-campaigns?

EMAIL BOMBS AND BLOWBACKS
http://blogs.csmonitor.com/readers_email/2005/01/index....
Christian Science Monitor reporter Tom Regan writes, "The Internet
is increasingly being used by special interest groups to try and
influence media to change the way they cover a subject, or in some
cases not to cover it at all." Regan focuses on the Monitor's
on-line polls, which, although not scientific, "encourage deeper
involvement in a story and issue." A poll accompanying a story on
the U.S. Presbyterian Church's vote to boycott companies doing
business with Israel resulted in a "coordinated e-mail bomb
campaign." Regan summarizes, "The great concern of those who
e-mailed and those who organized the e-mailing: public perception."
But "e-mail bomb campaigns are easy to spot, and often easy to
ignore. ... Just one thoughtful, well-written e-mail or letter can
often have far more impact than the hundreds of cut-and-paste
e-mails sent during these attacks."
SOURCE: Christian Science Monitor, January 6, 2005
For more information or to comment on this story, visit:
http://www.prwatch.org/node/3175

[Downtown Hound]

16. What a crybaby

"I was absolutely mistreated on this." Get over it you weenie. You wrote an absolutely appalling bill that could have led to the suffering of hundreds of innocent women and you got nailed on it. Next time just apologize and admit your mistake instead of playing victim.

[liberalhistorian]

18. Or he could also

actually THINK about a bill before introducing it, like another poster suggested. Probably asking way too much, though.

[No Exit]

19. Well, this P.O.S. gets the prize for the stupidest, most callous,

idiotic, clueless ASSHOLE of all the legislators I've ever seen... and don't forget, it's HARD to top the record for major asshole-ism among politicians!

Of all the people who would be LEAST likely to be in any sort of physical or emotional state to be making a "report" to the "authorities" within the first 12 hours after a baby has died, the MOTHER has got to be the one. And IMO, that would apply EVEN if SHE had killed the poor kid! There is no way a baby dies and it doesn't affect the mother at least a little bit!

And she's supposed to be thinking about calling some BUREAUCRAT to talk to them and have them nonchalantly take down this information, and if she's just coming out of pregnancy her hormones are shifting, causing mood swings, but if she doesn't get that call in w/in 12 hours, hormones or no hormones, she will go to jail?

That blogger/e-mailer was right--this jackass does deserve to be crucified! Or better yet, he deserves to be nagged and hounded nonstop till he's no longer a legislator.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

22. Then this one gets honorable mention...

Battle Over Birth Control
http://www.wusatv9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=3...

"While certain states have laws allowing pharmacists to refuse to dispense a drug that contradicts their religious beliefs, other state laws --like Virginia, Maryland and DC's-- as so vague, they're difficult to decipher.

"It does not obligate them to distribute every drug the FDA approves", says Virginia Delegate Bob Marshall. "They should not have to be a part of it--and that's the law right now."

"These young girls surely know how to read. They can find phone books and they can find a pharmacist", says Delegate Marshall."

[No Exit]

27. Oh, really? They are "not obligated to distribute every drug the

FDA approves"?? Well, then, these pharmacists need to expand their horizons and start NOT dispensing some of the REAL crap that's being put out there by the money-gouging drug companies!

I agree that a pharmacists shouldn't impose his/her religious beliefs on customers. (They act like birth control drugs are something new... in the end, I think the pharmacists' bosses will make them dispense WHATEVER MAKES MONEY... the "religious beliefs" crap is just some sort of marketing/advertising ploy, IMO.) But I have to stop for a minute and look at this story, and say, "If I get really outraged by a pharmacist's action, am I playing into the hands of the big pharmaceutical companies?"

As you may be able to tell, I AM SICK OF THE BIG DRUG COMPANIES AND THEIR GOUGING!

Sorry to go kind of off the topic, but... I was already supporting Kerry/Edwards, but I heard Edwards quietly make a single remark during his VP debate... it went almost unnoticed, but he said, "And we're going to do something about these prescription drug ads, which are OUT OF CONTROL." I heard him say that, and thought to myself, "Even if I had been dead-set against the man, that one remark alone would have made me do a 180 degree turn and become a fervent supporter of him!"

I am SICK TO DEATH of prescription drug ads in the general media. I am disgusted at all the various gyrations taking place to try to get each and every person in the country onto some sort of prescription! It's frightening, really.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

33. I live in a constant state of "disgust" lately...

it's not healthy. (Hmm, wonder if there's a magic pill to combat disgust?) I just Googled Michael Moore's "Sicko" - it's supposedly being released the first six months of 2006. He'll nail all of them: FDA, health insurers and drug manufacturers. The big question is whether those 59,000,000 Americans will stop allowing themselves to be conned and start paying attention to what is in their own best interests.

[No Exit]

34. Oh, isn't that the "purple pill"?

No, wait... the purple pill isn't for disgust... its ads CREATE disgust... now I'm confused... what do I take for that?

I can actually remember when people got outraged over ads for "feminine hygiene" products. In fact, I'd wager that the same people who got all mad about those ads are the ones who are now eagerly begging their doctors to prescribe pills (seen on TV) for everything from hangnails to paper cuts; the people who got upset over "feminine hygiene" product ads were, of course, the puritan types. And we all know what a bunch of sheep THEY turned out to be.

[Occulus]

20. What a crybaby!

Excuse me, but YOU WORK FOR US. The PEOPLE. NOT yourself. NOT your family. US. The PEOPLE.

And guess what? This is the beginning. We can connect like never before. We can paralyze your offices with calls, faxes, and emails. We can, quite effectively, shut you down excepting all issue but the ones we want you to focus on.

It's called being a PUBLIC SERVANT. That's SERVANT, as in, get your butt in the kitchen and clean or you're fired, servant. As in, weed the garden or get whipped, servant.

Servant, as in, you do what we tell you, when we tell you, OR ELSE. Period. End of story. There's no discussion, because there's nothing to discuss. You belong to us. We OWN you.

Now get your lazy, complaining ass back to work and write legislation that benefits ALL of us, or get the HELL out of office.

/rant

edited to add:

"“I would never, ever impose something like that on a woman who had a miscarriage,” he said."

Then you shouldn't be writing legislation that, by its language, could easily apply to miscarriages, then, should you?

Are you simply incompetant, Mr. Cosgrove?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

21. LeftIsWrite posted the following letter yesterday in another thread

I am Delegate Cosgrove and I wish to respond to your website and the allegations that have been made by those who have emailed and called my office. The intent of House Bill 1677 is to require the notification of authorities of a delivery of a baby that is dead and the mother has not been attended by a medical professional. This bill was requested by the Chesapeake Police Department in its legislative package due to instances of full term babies who were abandoned shortly after birth. These poor children died horrible deaths. If a coroner could not determine if the child was born alive, the person responsible for abandoning the child could only be charged with is the improper disposal of a human body.

The requirement for the twelve hour notification timeframe comes from the method that a coroner would use to determine if the child had been born alive or dead. After twelve hours, it becomes next to impossible to determine if the child was alive due to decomposition gasses that build up in the body.

My bill in no way intends that a woman who suffers a miscarriage should be charged for not notifying authorities. The bill in no way mentions miscarriages, only deliveries. However, after discussing the bill again with our legislative services lawyers, I have decided to include language that will define the bill to apply only to those babies that are claimed to have been stillborn and that are abandoned as stated above.

I would never inflict the type of emotional torture on a woman who has suffered such a traumatic event as a miscarriage by making her notify authorities of her loss. I would also never impose criminal sanctions on a woman who has gone through this loss. And I am confident that the General Assembly of Virginia would also not pass such a terrible imposition on a woman. My mother experienced several miscarriages and I have other friends who have been devastated by losing their children through miscarriages.

On a final note, your website advocates the use of emailing comments to my office. As for the emails that I have received, I have answered a few and will forward a similar explanation to those who sent them. I always seek to receive emails that express a point of view either in support or in opposition to an issue. The majority of emails I have received from this site, however, have been extremely abusive, condescending, and mean-spirited. That is never the way to communicate with another person and I hope that civil discourse would be your desire as well.

I hope that you will post this explanation on your website and understand the original intent of this bill. If you feel the need to discuss this matter more fully, please do not hesitate to call. Thank you for your time and consideration of this matter.

Sincerely,

John A. Cosgrove



------

The legislation was very poorly written ("fetal death" in Virginia consists of "any product of conception") and I'm glad he is going to rewrite it more clearly. As it was originally written, it could have been used to bully women.

[Ian David]

24. Cosgrove is full of crap

"I have decided to include language that will define the bill to apply only to those babies that are claimed to have been stillborn and that are abandoned as stated above."

Well, let's make sure that if he does re-write the bill it specifically states it is to be applied only to babies that are abandoned.

Still, would even that be a bad idea? I don't know enough about miscarriages to know if they could be considered "abandoned" if they are small enough to flush down the toilet? I have heard of women who didn't know they were pregnant who suddenly expelled a very small dead fetus in the toilet that they were able to flush.

"The majority of emails I have received from this site, however, have been extremely abusive, condescending, and mean-spirited. That is never the way to communicate with another person and I hope that civil discourse would be your desire as well."

He's so full of shit.

He's the author of the Virginia "Marriage Amendment," and he's talking about mean-spirited, abusive and condescending? He's demonized an entire class of people and sought to destroy their families, and he's got the gall to talk about civility?

Come on , he authored one of the most abusive and hateful anti-gay laws in America!

http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20050103-114815-5456r....

On April 21, 2004, The Virginia General Assembly passed the nation's most restrictive anti-gay law--a law banning all contracts between same-sex couples. Not just marriage, all contracts.
http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Press_Room&CONT...

At the center of HB 751 is this language (emphasis ours):

A civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage is prohibited. Any such civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created thereby shall be void and unenforceable.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?041+ful+HB7...

Virginia outlawed civil marriage between same-sex partners in 1997. The so-called "affirmation of marriage act"goes recklessly far beyond that and seeks to invalidate any and all legal contracts between these individuals. All of the private contracts entered into by couples looking to attain any measure of stability and protection under the rule of law are at risk--including durable powers of attorney, health care directives, even wills and property contracts.

Even if you oppose gay marriage, please take a moment to consider the true meaning of this law. The language in this bill represents a new and dangerous low in legislative attacks on the basic humanity and full citizenship of homosexuals. The Washington Post, in an outraged editorial , says the law "flagrantly violates norms of basic fairness and decency."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11267-20...
http://www.virginiaisforhaters.org /

General Assembly Building
P.O. Box 406
Richmond, Virginia 23218
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Constituent Viewpoint: (800)-889-0229
Email: [e-mail]
Room Number: 416
Legislative Assistant: Christie N. Craig
Secretary During Session: Linda Stone
http://tinyurl.com/5woab

[GoddessOfGuinness]

28. This sounds like a good response to his accusation...

"He's the author of the Virginia "Marriage Amendment," and he's talking about mean-spirited, abusive and condescending? He's demonized an entire class of people and sought to destroy their families, and he's got the gall to talk about civility?

Come on , he authored one of the most abusive and hateful anti-gay laws in America!"

Since he didn't list any specifically abusive, condescending, mean spirited quotes, we can't be certain he wasn't taking a FAUX Snooze stance on justifiable criticism of the proposed legislation. However,
if DUers are telling this asshole what they think of him, without restraint, I can't imagine it will help our cause any.

In Cosgrove's case, it's probably better to write two emails, and not send the first.

[Catchawave]

29. A great column today in the Va-Pilot....

This is another shout-out to the "new media" (internet):


Good for us, pregnancy bill is nipped in the bud
By DAVE ADDIS, The Virginian-Pilot
© January 12, 2005

Sometimes a tempest gets tamped down before it escapes the teapot.

That happened over the weekend , right here in the Old Dominion, and it created a beautiful illustration of how the “old media” and the “new media” can combine to give fits and headaches to the old guard who rule us.

In this case, the “new media” struck first and sharpest, and in a way that proves how valuable its tools can be in the right hands.

It all started with a bill that was pre-filed for this season’s General Assembly session by Del. John A. Cosgrove, a Chesapeake Republican who’s no stranger to the art of dropping fiery legislation into Richmond’s hopper.

This one, HB1677, was a lulu. It would have required any woman who suffered a miscarriage or a spontaneous abortion – they’re different, based on gestation, but involve the natural death of a fetus – to pick up the telephone in the midst of her anguish and report herself to the local police department.

Her failure to do so within 12 hours, under Cosgrove’s bill, could have left her facing a Class I misdemeanor and as much as a year in the slammer and a fine of up to $2,500.

I first heard of this late Friday, from a reader in Charlottesville who’d picked it up from an Internet source. The reader, Eric – I’ll protect his family name here, for privacy reasons – was angry. His wife, he said, had lost five children in four pregnancies over the years.

More at: http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=80...

[GoddessOfGuinness]

30. Good on Dave Addis, too!

Thanks for posting this.

[Vidar]

25. Some success for the good guys. Thanks for posting.

[Ian David]

26. My letter to Cosgrove

On the necessity for civility and restrain from abusiveness

Dear Mr. Cosgrove,

I have read a copy of the email you sent to those you feel have abused you over the miscarriage notification act that you authored.

I am willing to provisionally accept the notion that you were simply not aware of the ultimate implications of the bill.

And I agree, it is important that all people be treated with civility, respect, and an acknowledgment of their right to dignity and equality.

*"The majority of emails I have received from this site, however, have been extremely abusive, condescending, and mean-spirited. That is never the way to communicate with another person and I hope that civil discourse would be your desire as well."*

Therefore, I find it ironic that the author of the most abusive, condescending, abusive, un-civil, disrespectful, hateful and bigoted anti-gay bill in the country has the nerve to talk about "civil discourse."

The man who says that gay people will destroy society simply by getting married is talking about "civility?"

You have demonized an entire class of people and attached to them the same accusations that Hitler saddled the Jews with, and you condemn those who are "abusive?"

You have been accused of being stupid, incompetent, and hateful of women. Those are bad things to say about someone. But I doubt anyone has accused you of plotting the destruction of Western Civilization!

We do not need to be lectured on "civility" and "mean-spiritedness" by the Pharisees of Virginia, least of all the ringleader of the Talibornagain lynch-mob.

You, sir, are an abuser. One should never try to make nice with abusers.

You set about to destroy the lives of your own citizens through legislation, and then you whine that people are saying mean things to you? "Legislation may break our families, but words should never hurt Cosgrove?"

In the interest of civility, I will refrain from obscenity, and simply close with, "...and the horse you rode in on."


------

Virginia outlawed civil marriage between same-sex partners in 1997. The so-called "affirmation of marriage act"goes recklessly far beyond that and seeks to invalidate any and all legal contracts between these individuals. All of the private contracts entered into by couples looking to attain any measure of stability and protection under the rule of law are at risk--including durable powers of attorney, health care directives, even wills and property contracts.

Even if you oppose gay marriage, please take a moment to consider the true meaning of this law. The language in this bill represents a new and dangerous low in legislative attacks on the basic humanity and full citizenship of homosexuals. The Washington Post, in an outraged editorial , says the law "flagrantly violates norms of basic fairness and decency."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11267-20...
http://www.virginiaisforhaters.org /

General Assembly Building
P.O. Box 406
Richmond, Virginia 23218
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Constituent Viewpoint: (800)-889-0229
Email: [e-mail]
Room Number: 416
Legislative Assistant: Christie N. Craig
Secretary During Session: Linda Stone
http://tinyurl.com/5woab

[PopSixSquish]

31. That My Friend was Well Said

This guy Cosgrove thought he could get away with this piece of filth legislation and "we the people" showed him he couldn't.

As for civility, I've always wondered if Patrick Henry's next words after "give me liberty or give me death" were "you stupid son of a bitch"

[yellowcanine]

35. Huh? Cosgrove says he was trying to protect FULL TERM infants????

"Cosgrove said his bill was intended to add more teeth to laws penalizing women who abandon full-term infants after birth."

Since when does a miscarriage result in a full term infant being delivered? This guy deserves to be blog flamed some more.

[Christian dem]

36. What the...

My mother and aunt both had miscarriages. What a insensitive jerk.