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Nambe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:17 PM
Original message
Cheney said he played no role in Halliburton Iraq contracts
WASHINGTON (AFX-UK)


US Vice President Dick Cheney said he played no role in awarding lucrative Iraq contracts to his former firm Halliburton Corp, and allegations that he was involved were "political cheap shots."

"Since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president I severed all my ties with the company, got rid of all my financial interest," Cheney said in an interview with NBC television's Meet the Press.

"I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had now for over three years," he said.

"And as vice president I have absolutely no influence of, involvement of, knowledge of in any way shape or form of contracts led by the (US Army) Corps of Engineers or anybody else in the federal government," he added. ---

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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh boy, crashcart
has made an artform outta lying. When will he EVER be called on it. Can you imagine if this were Gore.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. This should go down as the 'biggest whopper' of the day. .....n/t
TYY
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. I believe he still gets a million a year from Halliburton
please explain how the ties are severed again?
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. No... the whopper of the day was Cheney's straight face claim that
Iraq had ties with Al-queda. He went on and on about it on MTP totally straight faced about it IN SPITE of EVERYTHING in recent weeks that's been published about the FACT that there never was an Iraq/Al-queda connection.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I really tried to watch MTP
Crashcart's Iraq/Al Queda BS forced me to turn it off. From then forward I assumed the whole hour would consisst of nothing but fabrications.
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Sick of Bullshit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Crashcart also declared matter-of-factly
that the anthrax used in the post-911 attacks came from Iraq.

He also has refused to turn over his secret energy papers.

What are you hiding, Dick?*


*A rhetorical question if there ever was one
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. dickhead cheney
In his usual head lowered talking out of the side of his ignorant
mouth he lied thru out the whole show, and would be asked a question
and then change the subject and always bring up terra and al quaida
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
54. That bald-faced lie took all of ten seconds to disprove.
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Tripper11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well if ol' Dickie boy said it then...
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 05:27 PM by Tripper11
it MUST be true!! /sarcasm off

By the way.,...LMAO @ Crashcart...now that's a nickanme that has got to stick!

*edited for typos due to lack of sleep :-)
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. cheney
Lies upon top of lies. I hope Jon Stewart gets hold of this.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Cheney
Cheney has told so many lies on tv (especially saying that the nuclear specialist of the UN didn't know what he was talking about.)
Everytime that he surfaces for a few days he goes on tv and prevaricates.
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beanball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Prevaricates
you are much too nice to"Oilcan Chaney" that thief lies all the time.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yeah, riiiiiiiiight..........
:eyes: Who in the sam hell does he think he's fooling? I don't even think R's beleive this.
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. what a crock of * from yet another pile of *
<eom>

:kick:
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yup--after asserting the 9/11-Iraq connection and claiming
...better-than-4% economic growth and falling deficits next year. No reason to think that the truth-value of his statement about Halliburton is not equal with the other nonsense that he croaked out like some hideous business-suited frog.

Like I said on another thread--who'da thunk such a gray, snarling hardass could lead such a rich and inventive fantasy life? I just wish they wouldn't act like his ravings actually meant something. Okay if he wants to imagine these things, but do they have to be published as if they were the product of rational thought?
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton"
"I don't know anybody by that name."
"Halliburton who?"
"Isn't that an actress or something?"
"Never heard of them."
"Maybe I should look them up when I get booted out of office next year. I guess I do have some experience in their line of work."
"I have gained nothing from working in the government."
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. F**king Liar!
I don't think I need to say more!
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Oooh he loves to dance a little side step...now U see him.....
...now you don't he's come and gone....oooh he loves to dance a little side step....and lead the people on....remenisant of *worst* whorehouse in TX.... :puke:
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here's proof of Halliburton ties
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karlschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. That's interesting, but I have read many places that he gets $1M a year
from HAL even now. Maybe it isn't true, but I haven't researched it.
:eyes:
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ummmmmmmmm
I'm suspicious
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Of course he wouldn't have a direct hand in it
He wouldn't need to. In the run up to this over the last 10 years he positioned Halliburton to be rewarded with all the contracts. Why else would they have hired him years ago, for his good looks and personality??
CEO's become CEO's because of the connections and influence they bring, not because of knowledge or wisdom or that they are "real hard workers" and "team players".

Halliburton turns out to be the only company "qualified" to be awarded these contracts. Perhaps Cheney was forward looking to see value in preparing his company to be "qualified" to meet the "challenge" when the time came? Cheney worked this out years ago
knowing that in the future they would get another crack at Iraq.

One would have to be a fool to believe that there isn't a further reward in this for him, as if he hasn't been made a millionaire many time over from them already.

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nannygoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. Here's a good source that says he's still getting $
from Halliburton. Liar!

Cheney is still paid by Pentagon contractor
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,91...
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. So, he's paid more by them then by us, the people
Whose side will he be, I wonder?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think this is where we're going to nail him.
Especially if we can get the names of the people who were in the Energy meetings. If there was a Halliburton representative AND the word "Iraq" came up, we've got him. If there is anyone who will testify that he told Halliburton representatives about what happened in the Energy meetings, we still have him.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. He is still paid by Halliburton
It was part of his separation, retirement, whatever they called it. He claimed it wasn't compensation and didn't count, in a Newsweek article months ago. I don't have a link but I see someone has posted one.

He gets an annual fee from them. Or did a few months ago.
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belab13 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. proof positive that Cheney is a lying sack of shit
oh the humanity
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
45. Edgar SEC Filings on Cheney - DEF 14A
Last Friday I was searching Edgar SEC filings for "Richard Cheney" brings up a intersting Proxy document.

http://www.edgar-online.com/bin/people/doc_frame.asp?fi...

(The link may be slow and fluky took me a while, try at night...)

of which is a report from Halliburton explaining Cheney's retirement and his stock holdings. Cheney still retain a large amount of stock in Halliburton that has been turned over to a executor who can exersize the options on the stock at "anytime". So "Dick" does have a interest in Halliburton's stock price. His options were locked in at around $24-34 range. In Summer of 2002 Halliburton's stock plumeted to a 52 week low of $7 this is down from a high 0f $54 in Early 2001.

Also noted that Cheney was going to turn over all proceeds to "charity"...It did not explain what these proceeds were. I am assuming it was the proceeds from the stock options.

Looking at HAL (Halliburton) it is pretty clear that the stock started truning around when the rampup for War began in summer of 2002. That is when contracts were set up and plans started taking shape for an Iraq invasion. HAL quietly has been creeping up.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/sec?s=hal (search on Richard Cheney here)

Here are some quotes from April 2, 2001 DEF 1A filed by Halliburton

Consider the executive compensation system at our Company. Our Company's stock performance over the past five year period has lagged the Standard & Poor 500 Index and modestly outperformed its peer group industry average. At the same time, our Company's former Chairman and CEO Richard Cheney has received an extremely generous compensation and retirement package, including a base salary of $1,283,000 and, according to a September 2, 2000, Washington Post article a "generous retirement package that included about $13.6 million in stock and
stock options."

ABout Mr. Cheney still contolling 200,000 Shares of Halliburton as of April 2, 2001 Have these shares been sold?

(3) Mr. Cheney has entered into an irrevocable agreement to donate to charity the after-tax proceeds from the exercise of all his outstanding vested and unvested stock options, including the options relating to 200,000 shares referenced in the table. The agreement gives an administrative agent total discretion to decide when to exercise the options, without consultation with Mr. Cheney. Mr. Cheney does not own any shares of Common Stock.

(1) In 1998, the Compensation Committee approved a special one-time bonus for selected officers and key employees, including Messrs. Cheney, Lesar, Coleman, and Morris. Mr. Vaughn received the bonus earned under the Dresser incentive compensation plan which was approved prior to the Dresser merger. No bonuses were earned under the Annual Performance Pay Plan in 1999. However, pursuant to Mr. Vaughn's employment agreement, he received a 1999 payment equal to the average of the bonus he earned under Dresser's incentive compensation plan for Dresser's 1998 fiscal year.
Bonus compensation earned by Messrs. Lesar, Coleman, Morris, Reamer and Vaughn under the Executive Performance Plan for 2000 was paid in restricted stock vesting over a 3-year period. The amounts shown in the bonus column for such persons are equal to the fair market value of the restricted stock as of December 31, 2000. Pursuant to the terms of the Executive Performance Plan, Mr. Cheney received a lump sum cash payment prorated through his retirement date.

Employment Contracts

Mr. Cheney. As previously noted, Mr. Cheney resigned from Halliburton andtook early retirement in August 2000 to run as the Republican Party's Vice Presidential nominee. Other than the continuing obligations discussed below,the terms of Mr. Cheney's employment agreement with Halliburton terminated atthat time. No severance benefits were paid to Mr. Cheney under his employmentagreement since he elected to resign. Compensation Mr. Cheney received as aresult of his retirement is described in the next section, Arrangements Relating to Executive Officer Retirement.

Mr. Cheney has continuing obligations to Halliburton under his employment agreement, including non-competition and confidentiality obligations.

(Lefthander Note: WHAT are the other "continuing obligations"...??? It would be interesting to see the actual employment contract and how the retiremnt package was negotiated. it appears that Dick got the golden parachute when he left Halliburton. Shortly after that the rules were changed and those after Dick were not going to see as much in the way of pension and compensation.)

Arrangements Relating to Executive Officer Retirement

Mr. Cheney retired as Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Halliburton on August 16, 2000. In connection with Mr. Cheney's retirement, the Board approved retention of his outstanding stock options on a total of 1,160,000 shares of Halliburton common stock as permitted under his option agreements. At that time, 400,000 of the 1,160,000 option shares were unvested. Under the terms of his stock option

22

agreements, the unvested options did not automatically vest on retirement, but instead continue to vest over the normal three-year vesting period applicable to each grant. Currently, Mr. Cheney has outstanding options for 433,333 shares, 233,333 of which are unvested. Mr. Cheney has entered into an irrevocable agreement to donate to charity the after-tax proceeds from the exercise of all of his outstanding options. Under the agreement, Mr. Cheney gave an administrative agent total discretion to decide when to exercise the options, without consultation with Mr. Cheney. Also, as a result of Mr.Cheney's retirement, restrictions lapsed on 140,000 shares of common stock. The fair market value of the shares on August 16, 2000 was $7,560,000. In addition, pursuant to the terms of the Executive Performance Plan, Mr. Cheney received a prorated 2000 bonus in the amount shown in the Summary Compensation Table.


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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. There's a small dent in my TV screen...
from where Cheney's nose was protruding from that doozy of a lie. He's so full of shit I could buttplug my ass for a year and still not be as full of shit as Cheney is.
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. LOL LynneSin!
That was artfully done!
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Liar, liar, pants on fire. n/t
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wow, that's gotta be in the running for the Grand Poobah of Lies
It's not as blatant as, e.g., Nixon's "I am not a crook", but it's definitely playing for the major league pennant.

Big time.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. and i had nothing to do with the creation of my 4 children either
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Isere Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Josh Marshall calls Cheney a liar
Marshall is referring to the despicable performance by Cheney on Meet the Press today, but a liar is a liar is a liar....
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com /

"Apparently he can't help himself.

Apparently the Vice-President of the United States can't help lying to and deceiving the people he was elected to serve.

A harsh charge? Very. But I don't see how the truth of the accusation can be denied after this exchange this morning with Tim Russert on Meet the Press ..(snip)

Why do 69% of Americans continue to believe that Iraq may have been involved in 9/11? Many reasons. But one of the most important is that their leaders keep lying to them. "

This piece by Marshall is well worth the read.

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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Hmph.
"Meanwhile Dick Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure statement, states that the Halliburton is paying him a "deferred compensation" of up to $1million a year following his resignation as chief executive in 2000. At the time Cheney opted not to receive his severance package in a lump sum, but instead to have it paid to him over five years, possibly for tax reasons."

"The company would not say how much the payments are. The obligatory disclosure statement filled by all top government officials says only that they are in the range of $100,000 and $1million. Nor is it clear how they are calculated."

"In December 2001, Kellogg, Brown and Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, secured a 10-year deal known as the Logistics Civil Augmentation Program (LOGCAP), from the Pentagon. The contract is a "cost-plus-award-fee, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity service" which basically means that the federal government has an open-ended mandate and budget to send Brown and Root anywhere in the world to run military operations for a profit."


http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=6008
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. BULLSHIT!
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yeah, Bullshit
.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. Can you say
revolving bore?
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TrueBlueDem Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. Right, and "the government had absolutely nothing to do with" his wealth.
Remember that little gem from the 2000 VP debates?

What an incredible mass of lying ca-ca he is. And shame on the news media for letting him get away with it, over and over again!
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schultzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
34. Lies Lies Terrible Terrible Lies!
They keep on lieing and people keep on dieing.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. Cheney is THE BEST!
As a liar, Cheney is among the stratospheric elite. He's in a class with Richard Nixon, John Mitchell, Bob Haldeman, and of course, Spiro Agnew. As a liar, Cheney is elite.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
37. What a lieing sack of somebody else's heart...
Like, Chandra Levy's.
I also heard him say today that they can't rescind the tax "cut" for the top 1%, because there's a LOT of small businesses in that bracket that are driving the recovery and providing "new jobs"...

OK, so when are they gonna whup these new gigs out on us? About what, 12 million Americans are waiting....Where are they hiding these new jobs, TinMan?
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
39. Bull Fucking shit
If you believe that I have some swamp property you might want to buy.

Maybe Dick could drill for oil there.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
40. I got in big trouble over this...
I yelled out something along the lines of, "Jesus Tap-dancing Christ!" without realizing my in-laws were in the house...whoops!
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
41. "We have not tried to hide it under a bush*."
what a liar....

and it just keeps coming....

"The fact is that most of Iraq today is relatively stable and quiet."

"fairly significant success in terms of putting Iraq back together again, the price that weve had to pay is not out of line, and certainly wouldnt lead me to suggest or think that the strategy is flawed or needs to be changed."

"I never lobbied the Defense Department on behalf of Halliburton. The only time I went back to the department during those eight years was to have my portrait hung which is a traditional service rendered for former secretaries of Defense."


complete transcript here...
http://www.msnbc.com/news/966470.asp?0dm=C21AV
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
42. No, he was Executive Producer
He didn't actually play a role.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. New Bumper Sticker?
2004 - Dick Cheney Before He Dicks You!

(Apologies to the 70s)
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
44. 'Most of Iraq is stable and quiet.'
Perhaps The Dick would like to tell that in person to the families of the soldiers who were killed yesterday and today in that stable and quiet country.

Reptile!

:argh:
dbt
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Rebel_with_a_cause Donating Member (933 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
47. The Christian fundamentalist wingnuts believe him
So what the hell, another lie is worth a shot, if you can get those bozos on-board.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
48. Oh! Well That Settles That, Now Doesn't It?
On C-SPAN the other day, some conservative wanker tried to castigate the "non-believers" about WMD's by saying "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Same song, different verse, apropos Cheney. Just because there's no evidence he's not benefiting financially, doesn't mean he's not. Not my logic, but a conservatives! Using his own argument, it would indicate that Cheney IS benefitting from this arrangement.

I wonder how this L.A. moron from Saturday morning's Journal would react if his sophomoric logic was turned against him. His head would probably explode.
The Professor
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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
49. I call bullshit on that
In other news, the pope isn't Catholic and bears use porta-potties.
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eek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. What's a crashcart?
n/t
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. A cart that ER and OR personnel call for during heart attacks!
It contains all the equipment they'll need to rescue a patient from the clutches of Death. Or, in The Dick's case, the Undeath.

:evilgrin:
dbt
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
50. Hitler says he played no part in Auschwitz atrocities.......
.....
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
52. He's Still Getting a PAYCHECK from Halliburton
'nuff said...
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
55. he speaks with forked tongue
typical of his reptilian ilk....
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Warren Stuart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
57. Boy, if you believe this do I have a bridge to sell you
Across the East River connecting Brooklyn and Manhattan, you get to collect $5.00 tolls on all the traffic going North-South.
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Rebel_with_a_cause Donating Member (933 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
58. True. It's just a coincidence that he was the CEO of Halliburton
after diverting millions of dollars of contracts his way while Sec. of Defense.

Cheney is a "great American" the way Attila was a great Hun.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
59. ......and we should believe him because?.......
I say PROVE IT...

It cannot be "coincidental" that only companies who are big campaign donors/former-future employers are GIVEN contracts.....


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SodoffBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
60. Right. And "closet Austrian" Arnold doesn't jerk off.

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