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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:18 AM
Original message
Ceres (CA) Officer Dies, Another Injured In Gunfight With Marine
<snip>

CERES, Calif. - A U.S. Marine shot and killed one police officer and injured another before being shot to death by hours later.

Sergeant Howard Stevenson died from the multiple gun shots he suffered Sunday evening, according to a release from the Modesto Police Department. Officer Sam Ryno was in critical condition in a hospital after also being shot several times.

The shooter, an unidentified 19-year-old man from Modesto, did not want to return for a second tour of duty in Iraq and was reported absent without leave from Camp Pendleton on Saturday night, police told The Modesto Bee.

<snip>

Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/s...

Still developing. Interview with the Marine's mother, said all he wanted for X-Mas was to not have to go back to Iraq. Father told of how they got their son back safe, only to lose him to suicide by cop.

They made sure he got on the plane back to Camp Pendleton, and the next thing they know about him is this.

Apparently, he shot his assault rifle into the air, then went into the liquor store to report that he had been shot at... then waited for the cops to show.

FUCK!!!
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Unbelievably tragic. Esp. after what the parents said...
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:22 AM by nine23
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here is another link...
Ceres Police Officer Killed In Gun Battle
Second Officer Critically Wounded; Suspect Killed

POSTED: 7:29 am PST January 10, 2005
UPDATED: 7:02 pm PST January 10, 2005

CERES, Calif. -- A veteran police sergeant has been killed in an ambush shooting at a Northern California liquor store, according to authorities. They say the suspect is a Marine who may not have wanted to return to the front lines in Iraq.

snip...
Raya was a U.S. Marine who had completed a seven-month tour in Iraq. On leave from Camp Pendleton, Raya spent the holidays with his family and returned to the camp on Saturday, according to authorities. By Sunday, police say, he had returned to the Ceres area, where he ambushed the police officers. He was expected to head back to Iraq soon.


"In speaking with the family, they conveyed to us that their son did not desire to return to Iraq," said Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department spokesman Lt. Bill Heyne.

more...
http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4066891/detail.html

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. Two more in the Bush column.
God knows what the guy probably saw in Iraq to drive him to this extremity.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Suicide by Police Officer. . .
a sad situation in every direction. . .
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wow; guess he really didn't want to go.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't mean to sound cold and this story is tragic but this is the wakeup
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 02:48 AM by nothingshocksmeanymo
call that smaller farmbelt communities need to realize just what a liar Bush is, how horrible this war is...how ill planned it was and what its real toll will be. Chickens are coming home to roost.

Certainly the officers did not deserve to die in that manner and pity the soul of the young marine too...but there it is in 3D for this pro war pro Bush farm belt community to WAKE THE FUCK UP.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Right. And this poor slob was headed back for a
THIRD TOUR! He had already been there twice and the fucks were going to send him back! There is just so much a person can take, then it's over! This is the new reality, folks. This is the Empire.
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brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Not cold at all.
As you say, it's the tragic truth. As these incidents multiply - and they will - only then will those who have allowed themselves to be suckered by the faux cowboy realize what a great price is being paid for his lies. There will be plenty of heartbreak to go around.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. This isn't really a farm belt community.
It's surrounded by them, but most of the towns along the 99 corridor in this area have long since morphed into the "outer ring" of the SF Bay Area, and their economies are strongly driven by the Bay Area commuters that call this area home. Ceres nowadays is usually looked at as a "suburb of a suburb" (Modesto).

I used to live there. I went to Ceres High School part of my freshman year and I've gassed up at the mart where this happened several times. Ceres is a small community as California cities go, and this shooting is hitting the area hard, but to classify this as the just rewards of some Bush loving farm podunks is out of line and inaccurate. While they may be proud of their "small town America" heritage, this is an area that hasn't sent a Republican to Congress for more than 40 years.
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mojavekid Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. Thank You Xithras.
Well said.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Let the fragging begin.
Imagine how excellent military order and discipline are in Iraq,
if we have this sort of thing going on back home in Ceres?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. kicking it to the top
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. This was breaking news for us the other night but w/o many details
it's so sad and a definite case of sucide by cop. Life is Bush's Merika.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. F Company Soldiers Describe Mistreatment in Iraq
Before they lost the freedom to communicate openly via
email (two soldiers reported that they were told if anyone
caught discussing the matter would face disciplinary action
for opening a can of worms) several of them confirmed
to DefenseWatch that the soldiers statement
accurately describes their time in-country until November
2004, when the narrative ends. This amazing document
further amplifies and details an earlier accusation of
systemic failures in training and leadership the
Guardsmen suffered before and after their arrival in
Iraq.

During the whole uprising here in Iraq we watched
helplessly as convoy after convoy was destroyed right down
the road. We were ashamed; we did nothing as
fellow Americans were
slaughtered.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=...
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Their story about Ft. Bliss is very much like my own
I deployed through there in Jan 03 and the training by the 91st was total bullshit. They had a set training plan and tried to make every unit fit their training which simply doesn't work. We were transportation and faced the same issues dealing with the active Army (unwanted step-child). Looks like things haven't changed a bit.
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
13. this is very sad and this is very tragic and....
My heart goes out to the families of the police officers and to the marine and his family.

Why does my heart go out to the Marine. It is because he has been trained to kill people. The government trained him to murder people. Perhaps in a persons conscious mind they can differentiate between killing enemy soldiers and non enemy persons (however if that were true for all of our troops, so many Iraqi civilians wouldn't be getting slaughtered). But I don't think that, at a sub conscious level, a person can just flip a switch and go from trained killer to regular citizen. Especially once a trained killer has been to war and been traumatized by what he saw happen and what he was forced to do. I think that this Marine had to be depressed and most likely suffered from PTSD.

Wait until all of our troops come home. More Vietnam vets have committed suicide that died in the war. This time around, it won't be any better.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Frankly,
I think from his viewpoint, he identified the "enemy" accurately.
Armes Kind... :cry:
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. To a degree
He might have overgeneralized a little. But he didn't have access to the bigger enemy. They are all human beings with families and it is a tragic situation.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. This marine was let down. from trained killer to regular citizen.
Sorry to the good people that he killed,
in Ceres and in Iraq.

said Gainer, a "Save Robby" organizer. "The minimum we
can do for anyone who gives his life in service of the country
and saving human lives is to give them the opportunity to have
a few restful years and
burial."

http://www.petcem.com/hartsdale_in_the_news.htm

And to any criticism on relating this dog story
to a human- dogs never fuck with you.


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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. horrible
:( Also, the dead cop has a wife and 3 kids, I can't even imagine what they are going through :( Sad story all around.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. Was it PTSD?
If you watch that video it almost seems like he's regressed into the lines of combat.

If wanted to die by cop why shoot the two cops and then run?

It was in alley way that managed to take him down. Urban combat all over again

I would say PTSD (Vietnam post traumatic stress disorder. Flashbacks)

This is the nightmare these kids are returning to, adjusting to home life all over again. Except the process in healing isn't going happen when 4 months later or 6 months later your being shipped back to the nightmare.

They did a study on Vets from Vietnam, 5 years after getting out. Vets were more likely to abuse drugs, more often involved in fatal car accidents, the rate of suicides were up, and homicides.

Have we learned nothing from these guys? We just keep throwing them back into the fray to be exposed over and over again. It's bullshit and someone needs to be held accountable. Maybe Rummy and Bush Co can operate the white house from Iraq for a week. Or give their children up to a needless war.

Don't forget the malaria drug, and cocktails of inoculations they are give too. malaria one is especially prone to causing some to wig out. Even months after it's given. I know because my hubby wigged out on it after coming back from Afghanistan.

It's sad really, seems like all of these men and women have one foot in the grave, no matter where they are. In Iraq your shot at, your at home your suffering from PTSD and vulnerable to all of those complications.

It's time to stop the madness







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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. NO AMERICAN has of yet
been REALLY held accountable, least of all, anyone from your *driving forces." NOT a good thing...
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Meanwhile, awol's approval ratings rise. n/t
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Not in California... latest poll has him at 42%
Bush job approval sags on Iraq, credibility questions
BETH FOUHY, AP Political Writer

Monday, January 10, 2005


(01-10) 17:08 PST SAN FRANCISCO (AP) --

A continued slide in support for the war in Iraq has kept President Bush's overall job approval rating in California at just 42 percent, a new survey found.

The poll released Monday by the Survey and Policy Research Institute at San Jose State University found that 60 percent of California adults disapprove of the president's handling of Iraq and do not believe that the war in Iraq was worth fighting. In September, just 54 percent said the war was not worth it.

Californians also continue to give Bush poor marks on his economic policies, with just 39 percent saying they approve of his handling of the economy. Also, 52 percent said they do not believe Bush tells the truth.

The president's best marks came in his handling of terrorism, with 43 percent of Californians saying they approved of his handling of the war on terror compared to 47 percent that disapproved.

snip...
"The president has a serious credibility problem in California, and his handling of the war in Iraq is undercutting his popularity even further," Trounstine said.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/ar...
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. kick
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tomkertes Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Images of shooting available
Marine, 19, kills police officer, wounds another
http://gropinator.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_gropinator_ar...
De Werk said investigators are not ruling out other motives or accomplices, but believe that Raya, a Marine who had served seven months in Iraq, was concerned about the possibility of going back into combat.

Video and images from the shooting:

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/9750300p-10612430c.ht...


http://dailydraftdispatch.org

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. Has This Story Gotten Any National Play On The Media Today ???
Or is it just confined to California?

That's all I've seen so far.

:shrug:
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. The Scotsman
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3989210

Marine 'Committed Suicide by Cop to Avoid Iraq Return'

A 19-year-old US Marine committed suicide by cop rather than return to Iraq, police said today.

Andres Raya killed one police officer and critically injured another before being shot dead.

The gun battle erupted on the streets of the normally quiet Californian neighbourhood of Ceres on Sunday night after Raya apparently ambushed two officers.

After the initial ambush, police arrived at the scene in force. Three hours later a second gunfight erupted, with dozens of shots fired.

Ceres Police Chief Art de Werk confirmed that Sergeant Howard Stevenson, 39, was killed and officer Sam Ryno, 50, was critically injured with multiple bullet wounds.

Police told the Modesto Bee newspaper that Raya appeared determined to die rather than return to duty in Iraq...

...Julia Cortez Raya told the newspaper that her son served in Fallujah.

She said: He came back different.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. So Apparently.... The American Nets And Cables Ain't Gonna Touch It...
with a ten foot pole.

Man... our media is so fucked up.

:grr:


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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I found a place called Officer.com --
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 07:25 PM by NYC
"The source for law enforcement." They had it, too, but nothing additional. I forget where that seemed to be based. If you want to know, I'll go look for it.

Meanwhile, the video wouldn't open for me, so I am watching the video in stills, frame by frame. From Video #1, the parking lot looked deserted, and strikingly, so did the marine look "deserted".

I should post one of those stills, but I'll have to find it again. I'm still going through them.

Edit: Officer.com Originally I posted "Military.com". That was wrong. Here's the link:
http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=20181&sit...
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Still frame:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. I hope his family does TWO THINGS
...for starters.

First, a full-bore, top of the line, videotaped, documented up the wazoo, autopsy by the best forensic people available, full chain of custody for any tissue and blood samples, etc--and take plenty of them.

Second, that they grab his medical record before anyone has a chance to scrub it. It might be interesting to see his immunization records.

This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. and so the backlash begins
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 07:52 PM by SlavesandBulldozers
The media will have to address this soon, how will it be spun?

or perhaps its just one more tossed aside disaster. :shrug:
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wildwww2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Tossed aside disaster. Would be my guess. No pregnant women
involved in this. So our media who is pro-life except for where the Iraqi people are concerned. Will just yawn at this. Can`t make waves for the election theif in chief now can they?
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Would getting his military medical be a problem?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. If he hadn't reported in from leave
...it is probably in his duffle bag in the trunk of his car....unless he was going back to his same unit, in which case it is at the clinic where his unit is stationed or deployed. In that case, the family will have to DEMAND it. As primary next of kin, they have a right to it--all they have to do is fill out a FOIA and wait for fucking ever (see, they have to close out his record, send it ST Louis, it sits in boxes for six months, then it gets filed, then they can find it, copy it, go out for a smoke, come back, forget where they left off, and give you ten copies of shit you do not need and skip the stuff you wanted).

The loud, swift intervention of a Senator or Representative, preferably one seated on the SASC or HASC, can speed things up immesurably.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. Saw the video of this on TV
The Fucking Police totally reject the PTSD component of this.

They say he is just a killer and they are sure he knew what he was doing.

Well Cops----- get ready for more of these sweet hearts in the near future.

Maybe you can get a thrill out of shooting and killing a disabled soldier. I think tho he might be just a tad tougher than most P--s
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. NYT, tomorrow: Kin of Marine... Ask if He Is a Casualty of War
Kin of Marine Who Shot Policemen Ask if He Is a Casualty of War

snip>
"He walked over to where Sergeant Stevenson laid suffering from several gunshot wounds and shot him in the back of the head," said Lt. Bill Heyne, the lead investigator on the case for the Stanislaus County sheriff. "It was an execution of that officer."

The marine, Lance Cpl. Andres Raya, 19, who spent seven months in Iraq last year as a motor transportation operator, then walked to a muddy alley around the corner, a place where he used to pick oranges as a student on his way to Ceres High School. He slipped from one backyard to the next, telling some residents they were "innocent civilians" and would not be harmed.
...
"There is a general sentiment among some people against authority and against the police," said Father McFalls, who accompanied Corporal Raya's parents and a dozen other relatives to the police station on Tuesday where they prayed at a memorial to Sergeant Stevenson. "This young man in his earlier life would not have encouraged any of this anti-police rhetoric."

Corporal Raya grew up in The Camp, a neighborhood of subsidized housing near the high school where Mexican immigrants, including his father, found shelter for their families while working in the nearby fields. For many teenagers in The Camp, a job fighting in Iraq is considered a dream ticket to somewhere better, which has made ever more poignant the mystery about why one life from The Camp ended so badly.

http://nytimes.com/2005/01/14/national/14marine.html

Seems pretty clear he was in some kind of war related state of mind- how else to interpret the "innocent civilian" remark? Denying it won't make us any safer (or the police who will continue to deal with it) We'll end up with hundreds of thousands of ticking bombs in our neighborhoods.

There needs to be some kind of safety net made available to returning troops, to guage their fitness whether they are returning or home for good. Bush is bad enough, but with this new VA chief is even worse- all I read about are cuts for vet services.
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savethesea Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
39. gangs blamed for murder/suicide rather than iraq war
Modesto Bee: "Breaking News: Police find materials glorifying gang involvement in Raya's bedroom

"Andres Raya was listening to gangster rap music and reading a book glorifying gang and drug involvement shortly before the 19-year-old Marine gunned down two Ceres police veterans Sunday night, investigators said this morning."

I just joined DU because I am so upset about this tragedy here in my community. I can't believe the local paper and police are blaming gangs rather than recognizing the war as the primary factor. This is the first police death in Ceres and there have been gangs there for many years. This republicans will believe anything to avoid the truth avoid the truth about the iraq war.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. the local paper and police are Fascist Thugs and Liars
This is the fallout of War

Book Mark this.

There will be lots more of these PTSD RAGES to come out of IRAQ-NAM in the Future.

I loved the Smirking Weasel Police Captain who basically said "BRING IT ON" to the young Hispanic men in the Community. I hope they teach him some "RESPECT"

VAYA CON DIOS.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. CBS played up the gang angle last night.
Showed the videotape and funeral/memorial scene(s). The reporter stated that Raya had bragged to his fellow soldiers of his gang activities and how that was the major influence over his actions. It sure looked like the kid was playing out some war fantasy in the videotape, imho. Very sad. I'm fearful there will be many more like him, considering the reports of mental illness arising from Bu$h's nation building excursions.

A sad but sincere Welcome to DU savethesea. :hi: :hug:
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Those homeboys are going to teach the cops a lesson
When these marine Killers come back

BLOOD WILL FLOW IN THE STREET.

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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. here is a link... Marine's gang ties revealed
Marine's gang ties revealed
Raya was in Norteo gang, police say, had armor-piercing bullets


By JULISSA McKINNON
BEE STAFF WRITER


Last Updated: January 15, 2005, 05:49:23 AM PST


CERES The 19-year-old Marine who gunned down two police officers was a Norteo gang member who plotted a deadly attack on police, not a veteran suffering the stress of war, investigators said Friday.

A toxicology report shows that Andres Raya was high on cocaine Sunday night when he shot and killed 39-year-old Sgt. Howard Stevenson and severely injured officer Sam Ryno, 49, outside George's Liquors on Caswell Avenue.

Information presented at a Friday news conference contrasted sharply with the image that police and Raya's family initially portrayed of the young man, that of a traumatized soldier who snapped and committed "suicide by cop."

"The easy answer to this would be to blame it on Iraq," said the lead investigator, Lt. Bill Heyne of the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department.

more...
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/9773943p-10637155c.ht...
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
40. This wouldn't happen if only....
the police and military had guns.

Oh, wait...nevermind.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. didn't a soldier set himself on fire at the Towers site also a while ago?
This soldier, as I recall did not want to go to Iraq either.
Anyone recall that story?
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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
43. Expect plenty more America!!
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
46. Anybody thinking "Suicide by Cop"?
I think the fact that this man just got back from Oil War II is clouding things.
Can't get inside his head, but I would doubt seriously that he had any thoughts of surviving his gunfight with the SWAT team.
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