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jos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:02 AM
Original message
Texas voters narrowly approve civil damages amendment
http://tinyurl.com/nbfg

I'm surprised it was that close (51-49) given that the Texas government and corporations supported it to the hilt.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Do we ever actually win these propositions?
:puke:
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GreenGreenLimaBean Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. 51% of Texans are ASSHOLES...
I live in Austin and know these suburban lemmings firsthand. Wait until
the reality of what they passed hits them full force.

I suspect electronic fraud due to the fact that every amendment
passed. What a great way to run a state, pass amendments to the
constitution instead of passing legislation.
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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Yes
the local paper ran them in great detail. Overlooked is the little tidbit allowing churches tax exemptions for buildings that are not places of worship. Molly is right, but not only did we lose the right to sue, we lost separation of church and state.
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BJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. "...protect doctors and nurses..."
Bullshit, Gov. Rick "Good Hair" Perry. Limiting liability law suits only protects the insurance companies. Even when this law is enacted the physicians' medical-malpractice insurance premiums won't go down a bit.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Now you've hit the nail on the head! Premiums
won't go down, because the insurance folks (whom this is designed to protect, has nothing to do with medical or any other industry) will say that the other 49 states still have not passed it!

The TV ads were really pandering to the lowest denominator - one pro-12 showed a "sample" lawyer ad featuring the phone number 1-666-lets-sue. Pretty cute bringing the antiChrist in, right?

Hope the Guv got plenty o'bucks from the insurance folks, cause I think disillusionment among even the medical folk who supported this (hey- they're doctors, not accountants, tend to panic like everyone else, the difference is they have the money to be heard) ain't gonna like it when nothing changes except that insurance folk become richer yet!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I sure hope not.
The medical profession has been putting themselves first and us last a long time. I don't mind them being hoist with their own petards.

I'll enjoy watching them dangle for a while.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm starting to think that right will
continue to lose elections narrowly.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think there needs to be an audit.
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sham Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, there should be an audit, but we'll never get one in this state.
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 11:58 AM by sham
The sheeple are so effing stupid. This was set up as a battle of nasty personal injury lawyers against all the good doctors, which is complete horseshit. This was a case of big insurance paying off dirty Republicans to protect them from the little people.

I can't wait to get out of this g-d wasteland that passes for a state.

:puke:
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I hate the term sheeple
It really is so arrogant.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I agree. I favor ill informed easily impressionable idiots who do not
understand that they are voting away THEIR rights.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. unfortunately...
... in this case, it applies.

Anyone stupid enough to vote for something insurance companies spent 6 million promoting is STUPID. Stupid with a capital S. Sheeple stupid.
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TheYellowDog Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Oh, i get it.
So all doctors are bad huh? Well, next time you get sick and maybe need surgery, go see a trial lawyer. I'm sure he'll be able to help you out.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. And the next time a doctor cuts off the wrong leg.
Politely ask him not to bill you.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. yes
The next time somebody decides to sue because their surgeon took out the wrong kidney, they will be shocked. THis is a real case. The healthy kidney was removed instead of the diseased, so guess what? Now the patient has none or is waiting for a transplant, a much more expensive operation. But this propostition will affect product liability suits as well. The various citizens against lawsuit abuse groups who ran all those ads were finded by either insurance companies or people who lost lawsuits. There is one guy who owns a hospital bed company who has backed this sort of "reform" for years because he lost a lawsuit. He beds folded up on the patients and even killed some. So instead of making better products, he lobbied for limitations in settlements. I guess he finally got his way.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Ah, yes. Texas is an electronic voting state.
Nuff said.
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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. nope!
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. The people of Texas are damn stupid
And a lot of shit that will hit the fan with this proposition will be mightily deserved. These sheeple idiots bought the rhetoric then they should pay the price. Honestly everyone of these horse shit amendments passed. These moroons just voted yes on everything. Texas is one of those states that if you put the question "Should we attack France" on the ballot the idiots would vote Yes.

Considering the money already pumped into passing 12 especially during the legislative sessions and all the lobbying in Dr's offices it was pretty amazing that we only lost by 28,000 votes across the state. It was that close. This is precisely why these repuke bastards did not want the amendments in the November general elections, a greater turnout of voters would have meant they would have lost. Again it is no surprise.

Here are the statewide totals from the State elections office
http://204.65.107.70/03septgen.htm

Proud to say that in Travis County (Austin) Prop 12 lost 62% to 38%.
Austin we're a whole lot different than the rest of this state.

Sonia
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Agree - Most Texas Sheeples are idiots.

I still can not believe all 12 amendments got the rubber stamp.
Glad to know in Travis Co. so many opposed it. I am from Austin too.
Its always been an oaisis as far as the rest of the state goes.

My first reaction is to solidify my intentions to leave Texas for good as soon as my daughter is out of high school.

Texas has always had a mean streak as far as politics goes.
Why else would Texas be no. 1 in death penalty executions?

Texas: as the saying goes, " Great for men and dogs, hell on women and horses": But something tells me this is NOT over.

Its too early to write this off based on how close the results were.
but with all these sheeple I almost want to give up in frustration.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. 51%, aren't they lucky.
I wonder how many Texas voters would slit their own throats if the repukes wanted them too?
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Molly says it best, I
wish she would run for office down there.

by Molly Ivins


RELEASE: THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2003, AND THEREAFTER



AUSTIN, Texas -- Well, fellow Texans, they can stick a fork in us, cause we're done. Not only has Governor Goodhair called yet another special session (cost now at over $5 million) to implement Tom DeLay's dirty redistricting deal, but we're about to vote an end to public access to the courts, as well.

Unless a miracle occurs -- like a whole lot of Texans giving up time on a football Saturday to go vote on a bunch of boring propositions -- Sept. 13 will see the end of the open courts provision of the Texas Constitution. Cleverly disguised a cap on medical malpractice awards, Proposition 12 is a direct assault on an independent judiciary.

A hundred years ago, Justice Moody of the U.S. Supreme Court wrote: "The right to sue and defend in the courts is the alternative to force. In an organized society, it is the right conservative of all other rights and lies at the foundation of orderly government. It is one of the highest and most essential privileges of citizenship." The sickening irony is that we will vote to do this to ourselves, under the impression that we're helping doctors contain the cost of medical malpractice insurance.

Why the docs let themselves get conned into fronting for the insurance companies on this one is beyond me, but that's what has happened. Friendly Doctor Welbys are all over the airwaves in ads telling us how they're being driven out of business by the high cost of medical malpractice insurance and the only way they'll be able to continue delivering babies and curing measles is if we vote for this abomination. Of course the poor docs are getting screwed by the insurance companies -- it's awful. But instead of regulating insurance rates, our bought-and-paid-for legislature went after our legal rights, instead.

Don't let anybody tell you Prop. 12 is just about med-mal, just a little cap on jury awards in this one area. This is the whole ball of wax. This thing permanently alters the separation of power between the judicial and legislative branches.

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=mi...
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Why was the election on a Saturday? n/t
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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Lubbok here;
not as many as previously. I am amazed at the narrowness the vote. Dubbya better learn how to fasten his seat belt 'cause it's gonna be a rough ride come November '04 !
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. 51% of 11% of the Voters
11% turnout. Wow. That's 89% of the state's voters who left their future in so few hands.

Ouch.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Oh Goody!
Now the insurance companies will lower their premiums to doctors and health care costs will go down! Right? We'll be waiting for the insurance companies to do their part and pass the savings down to Texans now that the voters have done their part.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Next thing you know voters will give
insurers permission not to pay claims at all if there are too many and the investment climate is poor.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. given the propoganda around the issue, and all the reported money
from industry on the issue - so close of a vote is very interesting. Are more people less persuaded by propoganda? Are more people not paying attention to the media campaigns?

While the proposition is awful - the outcome is interesting. Time to learn why it was so close - and figure out what might have tipped it the other way and then devise strategies accordingly.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. the problem was simple...
... there was nobody to run ads and counter the total whitewash about what exactly the proposition meant.

I'm kind of amazed that some lawyers groups did not get together and fight, but I saw only ads promoting prop 12, and got several phone calls too.


For crying out loud, the Dallas Morning News and the Ft Worth Star Telegram both came out against it in editorials, and explained why.

Nobody reads the papers any more.
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LightTheMatch Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Now THAT is incorrect.
There was a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE amount of trial lawyer money spent in a statewide campaign to defeat this proposition. Was it totally spent in the right ways, and was the message what it should have been? No way... but to say there wasn't a campaign would be way off.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. so did the Houston Chronicle; and some lawyers 'stood down'
from the debate for fear that the 'message would get lost' because of the messenger..they know that lawyers have a bad reputation, so some law firms discouraged their staff from saying anything public about the proposition.
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LightTheMatch Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. It was VERY close.
I wouldn't blame this election on any wierd conspiracy at all, unless you think it was a conspiracy that we had really poor organizers in El Paso and San Antonio (and most of the Valley), and the statewide Anti-Prop 12 campaign never could get a strong message going until AFTER early voting ended...

So, we got our asses kicked hard in early voting, and even though e-day returns were far better, it wasn't enough. If we had been able to get the sh*t done in the hispanic community and the statewide effort had teeth/balls/guts/whatever, boy, we would have done way better.

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jos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. Dems take some comfort from the results
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