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US deserters flee to Canada to avoid service in Iraq

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:53 PM
Original message
US deserters flee to Canada to avoid service in Iraq
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

American Army soldiers are deserting and fleeing to Canada rather than fight in Iraq, rekindling memories of the thousands of draft-dodgers who flooded north to avoid service in Vietnam.

An estimated 5,500 men and women have deserted since the invasion of Iraq, reflecting Washington's growing problems with troop morale.

Jeremy Hinzman, 26, from South Dakota, who deserted from the 82nd Airborne, is among those who - to the disgust of Pentagon officials - have applied for refugee status in Canada.

The United States Army treats deserters as common criminals, posting them on "wanted" lists with the FBI, state police forces and the Department of Home Security border patrols.

Hinzman said last week: "This is a criminal war and any act of violence in an unjustified conflict is an atrocity. I signed a contract for four years, and I was totally willing to fulfil it. Just not in combat arms jobs."

more

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dang, this really takes me back.
I could start to be proud to be an American again, having
fellow citizens with the balls to stand up and say "fuck you
and your stupid war" again like in the old days.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bring 'em on. n/t
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Tuvor, are you Canadian?
N/T
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. I am.
Maybe my sig is too subtle? :)
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Feeling sad about Canada
Just heard from the Canadian counsul that there is no provision for people to retire to Canada. I had hoped that in a few years I might retire there. No dice.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. With medical costs being a major component of retirement costs
Moving to Canada would have sounded like a good financial move since medical care is taxpayer-funded. Did you say "pretty please"?
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. When will the army arrest the deserter in the Oval Office?
You know, the one who killed my only child?

The one whose things Goodwill took away today...

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Zanti....
:hug:
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. My sincere condolences and support to you.
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. My heart goes out to you and your brave child.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. Their time will come, Zanti...
Their time will come. :thumbsup:

I'm so sorry for what you've endured. Goddamn it... :grr:
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. Zanti -- heartfelt condolences...
I am so sorry for your loss, and OURS. As a nation what have we done but lose the best of us yet again. I truly mourn for you and your son. I understand nothing I say can really help -- just know you are in the thoughts of so many who care.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. I am so very sorry
:hug:

:cry:
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. salute....
It takes true courage to stand up and say "No." All draft age men and women should make detailed contingency plans now. Get passports, and open an account in a Canadian bank. Those of us who are immune to the war machine's grasp should do what ever we can to assist these brave souls who are putting their safety, their freedom, and their lives as Americans on the line to resist.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ah, yes! A time honored American tradition!
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 10:10 PM by Gman
Thank God for the Canadian people and their willingness to accept our Americans caught up in an unjust war.

"In order to stay in Canada, deserters must convince an immigration board that they would face not just prosecution but also "persecution" if they returned to America. Hinzman's hearing has begun in Toronto and a decision is expected next month.

That shouldn't be hard to do. Canada knows about the tendencies of our right wing revolutionary government to persecute those that don't conform to the ways of the revolution.
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. These are the troops I can support!!
They aren't following orders to kill and torture and drop bombs or support "troops" that kill, torture and drop bombs etc.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I am not a jock strap
I worry about the troops, but I do not support what they do and I certainly do NOT support the asshole who sent them there.
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StephanieMarie Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not reading this in our MSM papers, are we? n/t
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You mean M$M?
Thank you James Wolcott, for coming up with the correct term to expose PRESSTITUTION!
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Flammable Materials Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Pentagon disgusted by peace.
Men and women who decide they don't want to kill, and maim, and torture, and murder - and they are viewed as "disgusting".

That's it, white is black, black is white, two and two is five.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. True patriot!
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Heroes of Humanity
This is what I wrote on my web site - Earthside.com - in response to this report:

"Heros of Humanity.
It is wrong to participate in an immoral and illegal war. Every U.S. soldier in Iraq should refuse to obey any further order that could result in the death of an Iraqi citizen. The real heroes and the genuinely courageous are those who have the bravery to say 'NO!' to Bush and his Pentagon stooges."
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Misuse of our troops should be a felony
The asshole who's using our valuable military personnel to satisfy his own greedy agenda should serve jail time.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. RIGHT ON.
HIGH CRIMES.

TREASON.
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MissBrooks Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is nuts...
I don't believe in war - but I also don't believe in breaking the law.

For those guys to go into the service and then decide they don't want to serve - that's ridiculous! If you don't want to go - don't join.

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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Just curious...
Which is worse, deserting from the military because a soldier's values preclude following illegal and immoral orders; or giving the orders to unlawfully invade another country and torture, maim and murder not only combatants but tens of thousands of innocent civilians (in the name of smoking guns in the form of mushroom clouds, hidden WMD's... oops... ties to Al Queda... ooppps... catching Saddam the man who tried to murder my poppy... uh... freeing women... oooopsie I mean... OIL... uhoh I mean...spreading democracy.)

Speaking of breaking the law by deserting, isn't the so-called commander in chief a deserter? Is it ok to desert your post for a coke snorting good time as long as there is no aversion to murdering and torturing involved?

I'm sure those decent people wouldn't have joined if they knew what they were in for. Speaking as a Canadian, the deserters who leave because they can't follow those orders are welcome here. The chimpy kind can stay away.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. See message #16. n/t
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Where in their contracts does it say they must illegally invade & occupy
nations in what the Nuremburg Tribunal called THE SUPREME CRIME?

Coz ya know what...I don't see that clause in my soldier hubby's contract. No where at all.

Must be really fine print coz I sure as fuck can't see it.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. They joined, but the military broke THEIR committments to them!
...via stop-loss and sending them into a war zone for indeterminate periods of time (against standing rules).

So, these men have no reason to honor a contract that the military broke to begin with...
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. Exactly
We need a strong military. How can we maintain one when the government abuses their authority?
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. And does that also apply to the National Guardsmen who
have been sent in a situation to which they could have normally expected never to be sent? Or how about all those who thought they did their time but have now been recalled and sent? I'm thinking in particular of a newpaper story about a 70 year old psychiatrist that was recently recalled and sent to Afghanistan in uniform.

Just asking.

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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Think about what you are saying.
Would you obey unjust laws, like the segregation laws in the South just a few years ago? Your statement indicates that you would.

What if you joined the military in 1999 and now find them engaged in an unjust and illegal war, as a matter of fact what if you sincerely believe the commander in chief is a war criminal? Enlisted men cannot just resign like "officers and gentlemen".

Sometimes following the "law" would later be declared a criminal act.....think about it, those following Hitler were obeying the law.

It's always easier to go along to get along, the real "hero's" are the folks who will give up everything for what is right and just, not just currently "lawful". IMHO
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Amen.
It's my "humble opinion" too.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
33. The Pentagon can certainly send a message to the troops....
....and court martial GWB?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
34. Good for them/
(((Zanti)))
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